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Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:13 pm  |
Hi Mary  I've read that its tricky to add plant extracts (like green tea) to C serums. This is because the extracts contain trace amounts of metal ions which would interact with the Vit C and reverse its effects so that you end up with a pro-oxidant serum. Chelators which sequester the metal ions might help prevent this. HTH |
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40's; combo to oily skin recently sensitive; hormonal breakouts; rethinking skin care routine |
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Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:44 pm |
| ^^ do you think the same effect is possible if you use a vit c serum overtop a green tea toner? even if you let the toner dry? |
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Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:31 pm |
I'm not sure Azalea, sorry. If I were set on using green tea and Vit C I would play it safe by doing it your way, i.e., letting the toner completely absorb then blotting any leftover film if any. Between the two actives Vit C has a more solid scientific backing so when I use my Vit C in the morning I try to make sure nothing gets in the way of its effectivity. I use a homemade green tea toner too, but only at night.
If you want to pursue this issue I recommend the biochemistryofbeauty.com forum. The sun protection/antioxidants section is open to all. |
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40's; combo to oily skin recently sensitive; hormonal breakouts; rethinking skin care routine |
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Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:40 am |
| So this probably means that we should not put Vit C powder/crystals in our ACV toner, right? |
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~normal but prone to dryness~slightly sensitive~usually clear~totm breakouts~mid 20s~ |
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Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:08 am |
phew...looooong thread girls. But simply fantastic!...special thanx to you CareKate for taking the time and wanting to share your exciting findings and recipees - you must have tremendous patience! And thanx to everyone else as well, of course 
Found a recipe somewhere in here...
Green Tea Toner (recipe courtesy of "Tom" atwww.acne.org): ***
What you need...
• 1 Cup normal tap water or some bottled water
• 4 tsp of fresh green tea leaves or 1 - 2 tea bags
• 1 Vitamin C tablet, i use 500mg - 1000mg (optional)
so what I'm wondering...can I use Vit C tablet to make a Vit C serum? or is that way out there in the ladidaaaas...  |
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Location: Denmark. Me = 32, think I'm combo without oiliness + sometimes sensitive. Have noticed that skin doesn't heal as quickly anymore and I've developed fine lines around my eyes... Hormonal breakouts which are sometimes cystic. PCOS |
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che
New Member
 
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 3
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Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:13 pm |
| help ? cures for hairloss? |
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Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:33 pm |
| Hi Faith I'm not sure about ACV and Vit C. I was making a comment only on the Vit C + green tea combination. Sorry I can't be of help. If I find any relevant info I will let you know. |
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40's; combo to oily skin recently sensitive; hormonal breakouts; rethinking skin care routine |
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Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:50 am |
| crazyskin wrote: |
| Hi Faith I'm not sure about ACV and Vit C. I was making a comment only on the Vit C + green tea combination. Sorry I can't be of help. If I find any relevant info I will let you know. |
I just though, because many of use make the ACV toner with green tea...  |
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~normal but prone to dryness~slightly sensitive~usually clear~totm breakouts~mid 20s~ |
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Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:38 am |
| faith wrote: |
| crazyskin wrote: |
| Hi Faith I'm not sure about ACV and Vit C. I was making a comment only on the Vit C + green tea combination. Sorry I can't be of help. If I find any relevant info I will let you know. |
I guess I should edit the recipe to exclude the Vit-C crystals because I haven’t added them to my own toner when I make it since the very first batch!
I just though, because many of use make the ACV toner with green tea... |
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Über-oily,semi-sensitive, warm/fair-skinned redhead, 38...Will swap/shop for members outside U.S. and/or make homemade skincare products upon demand-PM me for details. |
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Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:13 pm |
| Quote: |
| because many of use make the ACV toner with green tea... |
Oh sorry, I didn't realize that! When I made the ACV toner I did *not* include Vit C, but at that time it was because I did not have the crystals. In that case, its probably safer to choose one - green tea OR Vit C. You probably have a separate C product, so maybe stick with the green tea? HTH |
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40's; combo to oily skin recently sensitive; hormonal breakouts; rethinking skin care routine |
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Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:14 am |
ACV is great with green tea AND vit C. Just because the presence of species could cause reaction does not mean conditions (temperature, reactant concentrations, pH etc.) are correct for this to occur. While it has been proposed that vit C can be a pro-oxidant in the presence of metals it was disproven long ago. The info below is fromwww.pdrhealth.com (in the section discussing vitamin C as a supplement who compile info from medical studies for doctors.
"In order for this reaction to proceed in the body you need a low ratio of Vitamin C to redox active metal ions" This is not ever true in your body or in your ACV toner. Another article they cite says "It has been shown that Vitamin C acts as an antioxidant towards lipids even in the presence of free redox-active metal iron".
Tuning reaction chemistry is my field and the above info is sound.
P.S. Green tea contains vit C like chemicals and it has been shown over and over to be a potent anti-oxidant. |
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Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:36 am |
Thanks for that clarification Crazyskin!
You know ... logic told me that because green tea contained vitamin C ... it should be okay to combine the two.
Since I didn't, however, know the chemistry behind it, I wasn't sufficiently confident to query why there would be a difference.
I couldn't, however, understand why incorporating Vitamin C with a plant extract would prove problematic. 
Sure am glad that someone [ie ... you] actually does understand such things.
Mary |
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Over 50, combo, OCM. Originator of Pearl Paste ... www.silkenpearl.com |
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Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:38 am |
I am particularly alert to the interaction effects of Vit C and metals because I made the mistake of using a copper serum with a Vit C product.  Here is a relevant study in PubMed -
Prooxidant property of green tea polyphenols epicatechin and epigallocatechin-3-gallate: implications for anticancer properties.
Azam S, Hadi N, Khan NU, Hadi SM.
Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Life Sciences, Aligarh Muslim University, Aligarh 202002, U.P., India.
It is believed that anticancer and apoptosis inducing properties of green tea are mediated by it's polyphenolic constituents particularly catechins. A number of reports have shown that green tea polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) is among the most effective chemopreventive and apoptosis-inducing agents present in the beverage. Plant polyphenols are naturally occurring antioxidants but they also exhibit prooxidant properties. Over the last several years we have shown that various classes of plant polyphenols including flavonoids, curcuminoids and tannins are capable of catalyzing oxidative DNA cleavage particularly in the presence of transition metal ions such as copper and iron. With a view to understand the chemical basis of various pharmacological properties of green tea, in this paper we have compared the prooxidant properties of green tea polyphenols--EGCG and EC ((-)-epicatechin). The rate of oxidative DNA degradation as well as hydroxyl radical and superoxide anion formation was found to be greater in the case of EGCG as compared with EC. It was also shown that copper mediated oxidation of EC and EGCG possibly leads to the formation of polymerized polyphenols. Further, it was indicated that copper oxidized catechins were more efficient prooxidants as compared with their unoxidized forms. These results correlate with the observation by others that EGCG is the most effective apoptosis inducing polyphenol present in green tea. They are also in support of our hypothesis that prooxidant action of plant polyphenols may be an important mechanism of their anticancer properties. A model for binding of Cu(II) to EC has been presented where the formation of quinone and a quinone methide has been proposed.
PMID: 15251172 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
The study you cite is on Vit C as a supplement, are there any categorical and scientific conclusions re Vit C + metals when used as a topical? I'd be most relieved if that has been established as safe because I love Vit C AND green tea. TIA |
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40's; combo to oily skin recently sensitive; hormonal breakouts; rethinking skin care routine |
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Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:52 am |
Hi Mary, what's new at the lab?  Thanks for your kind words. I'm *trying* to understand is more accurate I think |
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40's; combo to oily skin recently sensitive; hormonal breakouts; rethinking skin care routine |
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Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:52 pm |
Again when you put things together that CAN react it doesn't mean that they do under the conditions you are using them. In vivo experiments are in a different environment for example, higher T, many other components present and lower C concentrations in general.
Cu peptides and Vit C may be a problem because of the higher metal concentrations. The low pH of the vit C serums might harm the peptides what I've read on that is conflicting. Some say yes some no.
With green tea the metal content is very low, in topical applications the temperature is lower and the vit C to metal ratio is much, much higher. Therefore I do not believe that the reaction could be important. There are many, many studies on the antioxidant components in green tea and the possibility of reactions with redox active metal ions. The real question, however, is whether the conditions of the experiment correspond to in-vivo or topical conditions. The metal has to be in the right state and concentration for anything of import to happen. |
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Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:57 pm |
Hi sharky, thanks for your response. I am not a scientist by profession, but I do have a good grounding in the sciences from my education. So I understand the complexity of it, that certain conditions have to be met in order for a particular reaction to occur. I understand also that experimental findings cannot automatically be presumed to be applicable in-vivo.
| Quote: |
| Cu peptides and Vit C may be a problem because of the higher metal concentrations. The low pH of the vit C serums might harm the peptides what I've read on that is conflicting. Some say yes some no. |
| Quote: |
| The real question, however, is whether the conditions of the experiment correspond to in-vivo or topical conditions |
So bottom line, based on the scientific evidence you believe the probability of a negative interaction occurring with Vit C and metals happening is low. Can it be ruled out entirely specifically when it comes to topical use? TIA |
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40's; combo to oily skin recently sensitive; hormonal breakouts; rethinking skin care routine |
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Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:22 am |
Here's a timely new recipe from forum newbie, Elaine, who gives us a fantastic way to recycle our Halloween and/or Thanksgiving pumpkins that will leave our skin radiant and glowing!
| Lanie44 wrote: |
This is a wonderful recipe for a facial mask. Leaves your skin feeling healthy and radiant!
4 oz. cooked pumpkin (fresh or use right out
of the can)
1 egg yolk
2 tablespoons plain yogurt
Place ingredients in food processor or blender to puree. Apply to freshly cleansed face and leave on 20 minutes. Then rinse off with lukewarm water. You'll love it! The remainder can be stored in the frig for future use. |
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Über-oily,semi-sensitive, warm/fair-skinned redhead, 38...Will swap/shop for members outside U.S. and/or make homemade skincare products upon demand-PM me for details. |
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Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:04 am |
| Maybe a dumb question...what does egg do for your skin?? |
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~normal but prone to dryness~slightly sensitive~usually clear~totm breakouts~mid 20s~ |
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Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:49 am |
| I'm pretty sure egg yolk is moisturizing.....the whites tighten temporarily and help with breakouts. |
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Fair,sensitive,combination, skin. 38 yrs old~ |
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Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:07 pm |
It's that time of the year -- and I'm thinking about gift giving!
Any ideas for gift-worthy DIY beauty aids? I love all of my DIY stuff, but some of them are *functional* but not necessarily FUN (or luxurious).
I'd esp. love to hear about good scent combos and packaging ideas.
ka
PS If anyone has ideas on what to give my *very* pregnant sister-in-law, please share! |
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Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:44 pm |
Rose & Lavender Face Cream
A rose and lavender facial cream can be made using the following recipe:
Melt ½ ounce of beeswax in 4 ounces of jojoba using a double boiler. Add 3 ounces of distilled water in a thin stream while stirring vigorously with a wire whisk. Remove from heat and continue stirring while adding 20 drops of rose oil (absolute or otto) and 15 drops of lavender. Allow to cool, then enjoy this wonderful homemade cream.
I found a great site and I'm going to try this one! |
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40. Routine: OCM, ThayersRoseToner as needed, Dr. Denese Dream Cream and Eye Cream |
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Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:54 pm |
| Reading 14 pages of this DIY is really valuable. I haven't seen much about Dry skin recipe or claim the result of several DIY. I checked out the EO, carrier oils etc, they are really expensive. Anyway, I saw some recipe from aromatheraphy books. In one book, it said it's not save to put oil directly to the face, esp. eye; yet, in another book, it says that you can mix several kind of oils and put it on face directly without any carrier oil. Which one is right? |
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Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:32 am |
| fishzebby wrote: |
| In one book, it said it's not save to put oil directly to the face, esp. eye; yet, in another book, it says that you can mix several kind of oils and put it on face directly without any carrier oil. Which one is right? |
With the exception of Tea Tree Oil, you should NEVER EVER apply any essential oil directly to your skin (face or otherwise!) without diluting it in a carrier oil. |
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Über-oily,semi-sensitive, warm/fair-skinned redhead, 38...Will swap/shop for members outside U.S. and/or make homemade skincare products upon demand-PM me for details. |
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Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:39 am |
Lavander essential oil can be used directly on the skin as well.
Recently I purchased some oils and a few days ago I made a mix of 4 teaspoons of aloe vera gel with 1/2 teaspoon of emu oil, 1/2 teaspoon of wheat germ oil, 1/2 teaspoon of jojoba oil, 1/2 teaspoon of avocado oil and 1/2 teaspoon of palm oil. The last one I added just cuz I had it. 
Now I am wondering whether or not I can use aloe vera gel on a daily base? This mix does wonders for my skin. Also the new Vitamin C serum that I made was with distilled water; 10ml water and 1/2 teaspoon of l-ascorbic acid. Is it okay to use just water? |
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34,normal but prone to dryness,semi sensitive,some sun damage,prefer natural cosmetics |
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Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:57 pm |
Thanks Carekate and Valdi about the EO.
I would like to make my own ACV for very dry skin. Can someone post what is the best ingredient, including EO for dry skin? I would like to avoid witchhazel, lemon and Ylang Ylang. How should I make my own ACV?
P.S. I never tried DHCC yet, so I am not sure what to compare. So, exact ingredient will be appreciated. Thanks all... |
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