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Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:57 am  |
I've been reading a lot about cleansers recently.
And I've basically divided cleansers into 3 types: soap-based, detergent-based, and oil-based.
(Now I know you could make the argument soap is a kind of detergent. But I just decided to keep it separate.)
Anyhow, soap and synthetic detergents are surfactants, and I want to make sure to have surfactants in a cleansing routine.
And I'd like to have an oil, too.
I think this gives me the best of both worlds. Oil does dissolve oil, as like dissolves like. I figure if I have a layer of really dirty sebum, let's say 40% contaminated acid mantle. I slather on a layer of an oil-based cleanser, and the dirty oil dissolves into the new clean oil. Therefore, after mechanical rinsing, I am left with a layer of 10% contaminated oil.
And then I use a detergent-based cleanser to remove the now-easier-to-remove cleaner and less crusty layer of oil. And because I used an oil-based cleanser first, I can use a lower strength detergent-based cleanser.
Therefore, out of possible surfactants to choose from: anionic, cationic (which really isn't a choice as with their charge they cling to skin), zwitterionic, and nonionic...
I can choose the more gentle surfactants: zwitterionic and nonionic. So goodbye anionic SLS and soap.
Okay, now what cleansers contain only zwitterionic and/or nonionic surfactants? And is a larger brand so I can easily buy.
Well, these forums and this page http://www.makeupalley.com/user/notepad/various/
helped.
Anyway, I made a list like this:
DDF Gentle Non-Drying Cleanser:
Water, Decyl Glucoside, Cetostearyl Alcohol, Squalane, Aloe Barbadinsis Leaf Extract, Propylene Glycol, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Eequisetum Arvenses (Horsetail) Extract, Polysorbate 80, Thymus Bulgaris (Thyme) Extract, Triethanolamine, Carbomer, Symphytum Officinale (Comfrey) Leaf Extract, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, DMDM Hydantoin, Propylparaben, Blue #1
Main Cleansing Ingredient: Decyl Glucoside (nonionic)
Cellcosmet Purifying Gel
Water, Propylene Glycol, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, PEG-7 GlycerylEthylhexanoate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, French Rose Extract, Matricaria Extract, White Oak Bark Extract, Carbomer, Triethanolaimine, Imidazolidnyl Urea, Sodium Chloride, Methylparaben, Disodium EDTA, Magnesium Nitrate, Phenoxyethanol, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Magnesium Chloride, Methylisothiazolinone, Butylparaben, Ethylparaben, Propylparaben, Isobutylparaben, FD&C Blue No. 1 (CI 42090)
Main Cleansing Ingredient: Cocamidopropyl Betaine (zwitterionic), [PEG-7 GlycerylEthylhexanoate (nonionic), PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil (nonionic). These two are surfactants, but I think they're used for thickenining, emulsifying and not for cleansing.]
Jurlique Ultra Sensitive Face Wash
Aqua (Water); Cocamidopropyl Betaine; Macadamia ternifolia Seed Oil; Glyceryl Cocoate; Xanthan Gum; Lithospermum erythrorhizon (Groomwell) Root Extract; Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride; Zanthoxylum alatum (Sichuan Peppercorn) Extract; Oleyl Alcohol; Lavandula angustifolia (Lavender) Oil; Hydroxymethylglycinate; Lactic Acid; Lecithin; Chamomilla recutita (Matricaria); Melaleuca alternifolia (Tea Tree) Leaf Oil.
Main Cleansing Ingredient: Cocamidopropyl Betaine (zwitterionic), Glyceryl Cocoate (nonionic)
Bioderma Crealine
Aqua, PEG-6 caprylic/capric glycerides, propylene glycol, cucumis sativus (cucumber) extract, fructo-oligosaccharides, mannitol, xylitol, rhamnose, disodium edta, cetrimonium bromide
Main Cleansing Ingredient: PEG-6 caprylic/capric glycerides (nonionic)
I've looked at things like:
YonKa Gel Nettoyant
Dermalogica Ultracalming
other DDF, Jurlique, etc.
and they contain anionic surfactants.
And I've heard recs for Avene. But the Gentle Mild Cleanser has an oil as the 2nd ingredient. And I think I'd like a non-oil containing 2nd cleanser, as I'm not looking for the 1 cleanser to do it all. And cleansers with oil usually leave a film on my face. Oh, for this reason I'm less interested in the Jurlique, too.
And the:
Avene Deep Pore Foaming Cleanser
Avene Thermal Spring Water (Avene Aqua), Stearic Acid, PEG-12, Glycerin, Decyl Glucoside, Potassium Hydroxide, Cocamide DEA, Water(Aqua), lauric Acid, Peg-2 Sterate, Palmitic Acid, Butylparaben, Cetrimonium Bromide, Ethylparaben, Methylparaben, Phenoxyethanol, Propylparaben, Salicylic Acid, Zinc Gluconate
While containing no anionic surfactants, does contain Potassium Hydroxide, one of the strongest bases in the world.
Anyway, so I'm thinking an oil first and then a gentle cleanser is the way to go. Anyone else think this?
I'm using Shu Uemura (normal) and Eve Lom at the moment. I don't believe the hoopla about mineral oil. And the myristate thing - well, I'll be following with a detergent-based cleanser.
So the detergent-based cleansers I mentioned. DDF and Bioderma do well on MUA. And Cellcosmet and Bioderma do well here. However, the Cellcosmet seems to have a really long list, all full of chemicals. I think I'll try the DDF and Bioderma first.
Um, sorry if there's no clear direction to this post. I just wanted to post some thoughts on cleansers and see what other people have been thinking. |
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Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:05 am |
RMB you have done some good work on researching surfactants and cleansers. I think I can add more to this information and perhaps clarify a few points.
First, let's define surfactant. The word is actually the short version of surface active agent. A surface active agent is usually a compound that has a dual function, it will have an "Oil loving" section to the molecule and a "water loving" section as well. The oil loving section works by attaching itself to oils and oil soluble materials. The water loving section works by making this new "goo" somewhat water soluble or at least rinsible. Thus, the dirty oily stuff gets picked up and rinsed away. Surface active agents also change the surface tension of the water on the surface, making things easier to rinse off.
Now, keep in mind there are surfactant type cleansing formulas AND "cleansing oils". These cleansing oils are actually oil based formulas with no foaming type surfactants in them at all. I've made a few of them and they usually consist of a small combination of materials like macadamia oil, mineral oil, and a PEG type material that would be water soluble, but oil dispersible. These all work on the "HLB" principle. This is known as the hydrophilic/lipophilic balance. All materials are either water loving, oil loving, or somewhere in between and get a value ranking of between 1 and 18. 1 is super oil loving, and 18 is super water loving. So, when you put a cleansing oil together, you use oil loving low HLB materials with at least one PEG that has a high HLB to make it rinse off easy with water after the oils have dissolved your oil based make-ups. Cleansing Oil formulas work quite well if you want to avoid the foaming surfactant type of materials.
Keep in mind that just because something foams doesn't mean that it is a superior cleanser. Foaming is just a mechanical means of lifting dirt and oils so that they can be rinsed away. Many consumers mistakenly think that in order to clean well a product has to foam really well. Not necessarily true, and Cleansing Oil formulas are a case in point.
Now, on to the various formulas that you have described:
The DDF formula has Decyl Glucoside. There is a BIG reason why you don't see Decyl Glucoside in a lot of cleansers. It's because it is inherently STICKY material and people just don't normally like it. Because of the stickiness that it creates in formulas, formulas of this type usually never get past a company's marketing department. Our company has been working on some of our own raw materials made from jojoba to try to reduce some of the stickiness of the Decyl Glucoside. We've had some success and may put out some formulas later in 2007.
I would not call Cocamidopropyl Betaine a "main cleansing agent". I like the material and it is a good foam booster, but it is almost always formulated in as a secondary cleanser along with the good old standbys...Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Sodium Laureth Sulfate. If a formula has only CAPB as the foamer/cleanser, the cleaning ability is going to be limited.
The Cellcosmet formula as you can see uses two PEGs in a heavier loading than the CAPB. That is because they are relying on these mid-range HLB PEGs to attach to the oils and make them water soluble for easy rinse off. The CAPB here just adds some foaming to make it seem (consumer perception) that big time cleaning is going on.
Once again the Jurlique Ultra Sensitive is just relying on CAPB as a foamer and little else. So the name is correct, this will be mild for ultra sensitive skin, but I think its cleansing ability will be very limited.
The Bioderma Crealine is close to being a "cleansing oil" type formula although they use a lot of water in it. The PEG-6 material is the one that attaches to the oil and dirt and makes it water soluble on rinse off.
There is something I really don't like about the ingredients list in the Avene Deep Pore formula. It is not following INCI convention by using the term "Avene Thermal Spring Water" in the ingredients list. Water....is water....is water....and the ONLY INCI name that should ever be used for water is "water". They are trying to pull a fast one here and make the product sound special in some way. This ingredient does not make it special. In addition the potassium hydroxide is not in the formula for cleansing. It is in the formula to neutralize the stearic acid which forms a nice stearate type lotion. The decyl glycoside is really doing the work in this product, and it may also be sticky feeling.
If you want to do a good job of cleaning make up off of the face I would use a two part cleaning method.
1) Go out and buy a good "cleansing oil" type of formula. This formula will have oils in it as well as a PEG or two and that is about it. There will be little or no water in the formula and it will look like an oil, but it won't be a problem if you don't like oils on your face. Remember, you are simply dissolving the oil based products from your face and rinsing it off with water. The rinse off will look "milky white" because the PEGs are emulsifying the oils with the water and washing them away. Thus, the cleansing oil doesn't stay on your skin very long, and rinses off completely.
2) I would then find a mild cleanser with a surfactant system that you prefer and foam away the remaining dirts and oils, if any remain after the cleansing oil treatment.
John |
_________________
President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:06 am |
| RMB wrote: |
Theresa, I know you already have sensitive skin, so you might want to keep what I just wrote in mind.
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RMB I will certainly keep it in mind! I wonder what kind of time frame we are talking about for developing more sensitive skin over time?
My personal experience so far is that my skin has improved since I have been using only cleansing oil in the evening. I did find that the Kose Cleansing Oil was causing problems with acne because it did not completely rinse off but the Amore Pacific cleansing oil does seem to completely rinse. Maybe it depends on the cleansing oil and how well it rinses. All I know is that right now my skin is the nicest it has been in a long time (less pimples, clogged pores improved quite a bit, less dehydrated and less sensitive). I am not saying that all this is due to using the Amore Pacific cleansing oil by itself in the evenings but it would appear that the cleansing oil alone is at least not causing problems and may be helping. My speculation is that one cleansing is enough provided that the cleansing oil is one that will rinse completely and that adding an extra cleansing step (at least for me at this time of the year) is not necessary and might actually be counterproductive in that it removes good stuff that doesn't need to be removed.
BTW the only time I have found a cleansing oil alone to not be suficcient is when I use the Shiseido Ultimate Sun Protenction Sunscreen SPF 55. When I use this I always follow my cleansing oil with another cleanser and sometimes I still feel that I haven't removed all the sunscreen!! |
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