what are the first signs of aging that you've noticed?
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

free skin care · Fri May 18, 2012 2:38 pm

fitgineer wrote:

I wonder if there are any successful non-surgical procedures to slow down the sagging? This is what I'm talking about, notice the skin fold above her cheek... mine is noticeable even if I don't smile, and worse if I do:

I think that thing is called transbucal ridge or groove and it's not the same as tear troughs. I'm not fully sure, once asked a surgeon about the ones I have and he called them that. The only options for correction were implants or fillers. While he didn't dismiss facial exercises as such, this 'cheek fold' supposedly occurs when fat pads sag, so not much that exercise or massage can help there, sadly. Other thing is position during sleep, according to him, mashing face in pillow the way I do also aggravates these ridges. Most people supposedly have them and everyone gets them at one point, but having lean face or low body fat makes them more visible. I never find the time to read up in plastic surgery textbooks on this, so could be total pigswill as far as I know.

I got mine since the dawn of time and they get only worse with time, no matter how much retinoids or other stuff I push into my skin.
Sleepless nights, weight loss, fatigue and other deficiencies make them look worse. Intense cardio exercise is pretty much the only thing that makes them appear better. Dermarolling helps somewhat.

free skin care · Fri May 18, 2012 2:52 pm

Turkey Waddle - before it got too bad I had it liposuctioned fifteen years ago!

free skin care · Fri May 18, 2012 5:31 pm

fitgineer wrote:

I'm a female.

Edit: And yes, I know my fitness goals are a little extreme, but I am wondering whether there is a way to balance them with skin health as well?

I thought you were female but seemed wise to double check! I am mostly going to set aside your (awesome Very Happy

) goals, so please understand I am not criticising you or your coach. I am fully aware that is a relatively standard diet for a fitness/ figure athlete.

Your body fat is obviously very low but seems to have started out low - ideally a female would not drop below ~18% although 16% is often fine. Female athletes do go lower of course, but it is likely to take it's toll on your hormones and organs so blood tests are critical. It concerns me more that you started at 14% than you are temporarily at 12% and heading down. Your overall fat intake again is about right for a sedentary female so ideally you would be eating double. Your body will likely start robbing the fat 'stores' from under your skin (which is what you want except on the face!) and your brain.

Also with you eating reduced calorie the risk is you will lose muscle, which you are of course offsetting on the body with all your training. However there is the risk that some of your facial muscles will atrophy, so maybe try facial exercises? You may well look a bit masculine as your body fat drops but once you return to a healthier eating pattern it will hopefully soften. Admittedly some of us make the most terrible grimaces (!) when doing a hard leg workout so maybe this is not required .... With you eating relatively low carb the glycogen fuel in your muscles will deplete (again what you want!) but this can leave you chronically dehydrated. Dehydration, as you know, can cause sag.

Personally I would like to see you eat more real food, there is a lot of processed or separated stuff there. All your oils, powders, even the bacon and salmon are cured. Instead of chicken and flaxseed, a portion of oily fish or whole nuts/ seeds for example. The conversion rate of short chain omega-3s in flax to the useable long chain format can be as low as 10% (likely higher for you tho), and it is more work for your body to do. For the omega-6s borage oil is king because it is rich in GLA, anti-inflammatory so beneficial for skin and fitness. The body can convert from LA in other seed oils but again it's more work for the body.

Your fruit and veggies is generally monotonous, particularly there doesn't seem to be much from the orange-yellow group? Sweet potato is a standard substitute for rice or oats and counts as a portion of veg to boot. Bell peppers or raw carrot are other options. I don't follow why your coach is dividing carbs into simple and complex rather than low and high GI, but maybe that is just their choice of wording.

Having said I'd prefer more wholefoods that might not be possible. If so and you are not already you might also consider a potent mixed antioxidant supplement to help with training recovery and for your skin. There will be some in your Vega of course. Standardised green tea extract may also be beneficial in weight management, then there are astaxanthin, resveratrol, lycopene, carotenes ... You might either take mixed or use the opportunity to 'plug holes' in your diet. Sorry I can't recommend a brand because I am based in the UK but sure your coach can.

Skincare
One 'out there' option is to check out the Cellese AnteAGE thread on the reviews board, DrJ is talking about them being able to thicken skin and possibly increase subcutaneous fat! Please note I have not tried this product, the peer reviewed study is in press, you can only see the results on the (commercial) website AND it is $$$. Hence I rarely recommend it even tho IMO the underlying science is good.

If you don't want to go that pricey maybe speak with DragoN via PM about which actives or gadgets she think would best help reduce the impact of your dieting on your skin. IIRC she has done a little bodybuilding and is still a fitness fanatic, as well as being a research scientist and skincare formulator. So I hope she will be sympathetic and interested. Cool

free skin care · Fri May 18, 2012 11:01 pm

Diet sounds under control - wonder if you have considered things like canned pilchards in tomato sauce? Pre-cooked protein, bones can be crushed in for minerals, packed with omega-3s, lycopene (but still low carb), sensibly priced in the UK. Eat as is, with rice or green veggies, tasty/ easy fish pate mixed with very low fat soft cheese perfect with sweet potato. The 'in brine' are not great because the oils leach into liquid which you discard; sardines tend to be more tomato than fish which is not what you want.

Acne sounds like reactivity ... DragoN's KinNiaNag serum recipe is gentle but effective on acne and ageing.

Up to you with the facial exercises because I am too lazy! Laughing

Of course fitting that into your schedule might be an issue!

I don't know what AnteAGE can do for acne if anything, maybe ask DrJ? I don't think he will feed you a line to get a sale. But ask DragoN about all of it, she used to have acne and is using the AnteAGE at present. If you want easy options ask her to suggest some, I know she rates Myfawnie products. Let us know what you decide! Wink

free skin care · Sat May 19, 2012 11:44 am

Moon wrote:

Ok seriously concerned now. Feels like I have 3 more years left (till I turn 27)!

Firefox do you think a raw vegan diet provides adequate protein intake?

Depends on your weight, activity levels and how well you plan your diet but I think it is extremely difficult. Generally the problem with restrictive eating patterns is that either (1) research and planning is not done or (2) personal taste makes the diet even more restrictive or (3) a wide range of compatible foodstuffs are not available locally.

With protein one needs to eat 1-2g per kilo bodyweight of pure protein per day, assuming one is at least meeting the basic requirements for daily physical activity. It absolutely isn't that humans need a large amount of protein, but we cannot store spare so need it little and often starting with breakfast. It is not just protein, one also needs to consider mineral and omega-3 intake.

Often when comparisons are made about how healthy a given diet is, laymen compare it to the average US or UK diet which is obviously not recommended! Really one should compare it nutritionally to the official guidelines (minimums) and optimum intake of each nutrient. A well planned vegetarian or vegan wholefood diet can absolutely trump the official guidelines. Note I say wholefood because I encourage all my nutrition clients to select real foods over powders and pills.

free skin care · Thu May 24, 2012 8:09 am

Agatha and Arielle: yes temporary, assuming your dehydration is temporary. But many people are chronically dehydrated, lower carb diets, not drinking enough, dieting for sporting/ aesthetic goals, skipping breakfast.

EthelM: absolutely and a pescatarian diet has the potential to be super healthy. We don't need lots of protein, but we do need it little and often. The body can utilise 1-2g of pure protein per kilo of bodyweight per day, spread over five or six meals/ snacks. Some authorities advise a little less, but that does not account for physical activity or weight management. A portion of meat is only 100g which is 20-25g protein, that can easily be replaced by other (often more nutritious) plant foods.

The problems I see include women eating little protein before the evening meal, vegetarians relying on convenience foods like bean burgers that are mostly breadcrumbs, people choosing a diet that cuts out entire food groups AND THEN adding their own dislikes or perceived intolerances on top.

HTH! Smile

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.