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Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:17 am  |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
Sorry we need a boot kicking butt emoticon!  |
And one for wherever it might be aimed!  |
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Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:36 am |
| SoCalGal wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Sorry we need a boot kicking butt emoticon! |
And one for wherever it might be aimed! |
Here you go! LOL
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:33 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| SoCalGal wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Sorry we need a boot kicking butt emoticon! |
And one for wherever it might be aimed! |
Here you go! LOL
(_._) |
Good one!!!!  |
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Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:38 am |
| I bought 4 jars of this after reading this thread and have been using it nightly for 4 days. The texture of my skin is now really strange--it's bumpy, ever so slightly itchy, and the fine lines under my eyes (which I'm desperate to eradicate) seem more pronounced. I'm hoping it's a case of temporary uglies, but thought I'd jump in here and see if anyone else has experienced this. |
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29, Tazorac, PCA cleanser/moisturizer, Clarisonic, Dermaroller/Retin-A/DIY Vit-C, Dry brushing, Ageless if you Dare |
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Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:54 am |
| P Girl wrote: |
| I bought 4 jars of this after reading this thread and have been using it nightly for 4 days. The texture of my skin is now really strange--it's bumpy, ever so slightly itchy, and the fine lines under my eyes (which I'm desperate to eradicate) seem more pronounced. I'm hoping it's a case of temporary uglies, but thought I'd jump in here and see if anyone else has experienced this. |
Well, my first thought is that you should ease off a little. I would stop for a couple days, then try every other day. It sounds like it's just been too much AHA.
I defer to the more knowledgable members though.
Good luck. |
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Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:13 am |
| SoCalGal wrote: |
| P Girl wrote: |
| I bought 4 jars of this after reading this thread and have been using it nightly for 4 days. The texture of my skin is now really strange--it's bumpy, ever so slightly itchy, and the fine lines under my eyes (which I'm desperate to eradicate) seem more pronounced. I'm hoping it's a case of temporary uglies, but thought I'd jump in here and see if anyone else has experienced this. |
Well, my first thought is that you should ease off a little. I would stop for a couple days, then try every other day. It sounds like it's just been too much AHA.
I defer to the more knowledgable members though.
Good luck. |
I am going to totally agree with this!  We all have different tolerances to products, so what I can use daily straight off you may need to work up to. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:47 pm |
I will take your advice then ladies (or men, if you may so be).  I figured that since my skin can handle nightly Retin-A or Tazorac that it would be able to deal with this without any problems. I've temporarily stopped the Retin-A since I've been trying this out, so maybe I'll give my skin a break and then try alternating this and the Retin-A. |
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29, Tazorac, PCA cleanser/moisturizer, Clarisonic, Dermaroller/Retin-A/DIY Vit-C, Dry brushing, Ageless if you Dare |
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Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:14 pm |
| P Girl wrote: |
| I will take your advice then ladies (or men, if you may so be). I figured that since my skin can handle nightly Retin-A or Tazorac that it would be able to deal with this without any problems. I've temporarily stopped the Retin-A since I've been trying this out, so maybe I'll give my skin a break and then try alternating this and the Retin-A. |
Lady here P Girl
So much with skin care is trial and error, it could be your skin is adjusting to the change? I would try your plan and if that works great! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:19 pm |
| just coming back to say that after the initial excellent results, I don't see the same beautiful glowing skin from using this nightly any more. I'm going to try to alternate between this and retin a+avocado oil. |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:52 pm |
 I am still loving the effects, wonder how all the others are doing with it? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:47 pm |
Hi,
I hope this is not too off topic, but this thread has inspired me to add AHA's to my routine.
I really wanted to find a liquid solution, rather than a cream. I found Alpha Hydrox site and they have swipes with 14% AHA.
So, a few questions:
1) Has anyone used this?
2) In looking at the ingredient list I see Ammonium Hydroxide. This is a SCARY chemical. I am an artist (I work with metal) and this chemical will corrode and eat through metals in minutes. It is so dangerous, you have to wear a full mask/respirator when using it. It is nasty stuff. So, I looked around and quite a few AHA products have this.. Any thoughts?
3) So, in trying to avoid that... Maybe I can make my own swipes. I have 88% lactic acid solution which I can dilute to about 10%. Does lactic acid has the same collagen building effects like glycolic acid? This one will take some more research .
(By the way, on another forum there was a recipe for a "DIY Amlactin" with 15% lactic acid and 85% lotion. It is WONDERFUL!!)
thanks!
erg |
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42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:24 pm |
| erg wrote: |
Hi,
I hope this is not too off topic, but this thread has inspired me to add AHA's to my routine.
I really wanted to find a liquid solution, rather than a cream. I found Alpha Hydrox site and they have swipes with 14% AHA.
So, a few questions:
1) Has anyone used this?
2) In looking at the ingredient list I see Ammonium Hydroxide. This is a SCARY chemical. I am an artist (I work with metal) and this chemical will corrode and eat through metals in minutes. It is so dangerous, you have to wear a full mask/respirator when using it. It is nasty stuff. So, I looked around and quite a few AHA products have this.. Any thoughts?
3) So, in trying to avoid that... Maybe I can make my own swipes. I have 88% lactic acid solution which I can dilute to about 10%. Does lactic acid has the same collagen building effects like glycolic acid? This one will take some more research .
(By the way, on another forum there was a recipe for a "DIY Amlactin" with 15% lactic acid and 85% lotion. It is WONDERFUL!!)
thanks!
erg |
Hi erg -
The ammonium hydroxide is used to adjust the PH and buffer the effects of the AHA. Cosmetics database lists it as a low hazard, with a couple of comments: http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/ingredient.php?ingred06=700370
I've not used the Alpha Hydroxy wipes. I used some from Avon a few years back.
If you want a liquid, you might look at the Skin Biology Lacsal serum - it is salicylic and lactic combined. No ammonium hydroxide.
I would think you could make your own wipes or liquid, just dilute it enough to get the concentration you want. You could thicken it a bit with some glycerin or maybe aloe gel.
Some of the studies quoted in this thread indicate the benefits from lactic acid. http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6392143
I've seen that DIY Amlactin lotion myself, but haven't gotten around to making it. |
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Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:37 pm |
Thanks ShastaGirl for such a thoughtful response, I really appreciate your time.
I guess just seeing the same chemicals that I use in my metal working show up in a skin care formulation was shocking! It makes me feel better that it is commonly used.. I am just really surprised.
I think I might try a DIY version since I already have the lactic acid on hand. I'll try on my body first  .
By the way, the DIY Amlactin makes your skin so smooth, it is just super sticky.
Thanks again |
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42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:18 pm |
Hi 'erg'...
Lactic acid IS an AHA, it's just a *gentler* version than glycolic.
It whips up luverly in DIY creams/serums, and can be used with Retinyl Palmitate for a one two punch...
As with any acid, let your skin be your guide as far as strength goes. The optimal goal to shoot for would be between 10 + 15%, and just like vitamin C it is fairly useless unless the pH is 3.5 or below. (Sorry, but I don't believe 4.0 will do anything for the skin, but it would have to be in that range to be available OTC.) For sensitive folks, if you can tolerate 8% a few times per week, that would be better than nothing.
I swear by AHA's, and have been using them for decades.. A few nights a week is all it takes.. 
Oh, BTW, for wipes or AHA face wash products, supposedly leaving them on the skin for a minimum of 5 minutes, is how you derive the benefit from them.
For an easy and effective DIY face wash product, just buy the cheapest drug store product that contains some form of AHA, and then just add in Lactic Acid to reach your desired %. Adding in the LA will also reduce the pH which will make it more effective.
So is anybody enjoying the lovely AHA *glow* yet? ...
Oh, just remembered another point in case it wasn't covered in the thread yet... Unlike BHA's, AHA's are not meant to penetrate deeply, but instead work on the outer most skin layers... They should be used at night, and are best as the last step in your regime. They can follow RA application, but wait about 30 minutes.
Sorry if any of this has alrady been covered...I didn't read the last few days of posts.  |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:31 pm |
Kassy - What you are saying is that OTC AHA's are only allowed to be at 4%? So this being the case then they are more or less ineffective for real exfoliating value. (Doesn't that just bite?). In order to lower the Ph we need to invest in a little lactic acid and add to our OTC products - alpha hydrox souffle, alpha hydrox cleanser, etc. Right?
I just bought some glycolic acid (30%) and lactic acid(50%) on Ebay - says it's medical quality - I'm assuming this stuff will be the real deal and below the 4% barrier. I'm going to use this every 10 days + on face and body.
And then buy some lactic acid to add to the OTC stuff.
Thanks for always trying to help us "little people" out. Your posts are always meaningful to me. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:41 pm |
No Sis I posted the FDA guidlines 1 page back it's 10% max on OTC AHA's!
| DarkMoon wrote: |
The danger is sun sensitivity that's why I wouldn't personally add more acid (AHA) which was asked about earlier. I wear my sunscreen and avoid sun especially on my face.
From Heather Brannon, MD
Alpha Hydroxy Acids
Treating Wrinkles with Alpha Hydroxy Acids
FDA Guidelines on Alpha Hydroxy Acids
Because of concerns over the side effects of alpha hydroxy acids, the FDA in 1997 announced that alpha hydroxy acids are safe for use by consumers with the following guidelines:
The AHA concentration is 10% or less
The final product has a pH of 3.5 or higher
The final product must have an effective sunscreen in the formulation or warn people to use sunscreen products |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:08 am |
Cross posting for those that want to have verification that AHA's work and are beneficial to our skin.
Very interesting as so many think exfoliation is beneficial to our skin.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2000_July_25/ai_63662476/
Face Facts: Debunking The AHA Myths; NeoStrata's Doctors Van Scott and Yu, Discoverers of Alpha Hydroxyacids, Address Issues of Benefits and Effects for Skin Care
MYTH: AHAs over-exfoliate the skin, leaving the skin vulnerable to environmental aggressors.
FACT: "Alpha Hydroxyacids work to normalize cell renewal," says Dr. Van Scott. He goes on to explain that AHAs do not exfoliate the skin in the conventional way that other chemical (i.e., salicylic acid) and mechanical (i.e., loofah) exfoliants affect the skin. While there is a brief period of surface exfoliation that may occur following initial use, AHAs affect the skin by normalizing cell turnover in the epidermis (the top layers of the skin), encouraging the formation of normal, healthy skin. This is a benefit that is unique to AHAs and is not found with other chemical or mechanical exfoliants which work by continuously removing the top layers of skin.
In addition, Drs. Van Scott and Yu urge consumers to use common sense to fully maximize the benefits of AHAs on their skin. For example, skin is always more susceptible to sun exposure after any type of cosmetic procedure (AHA application, laser treatment, micro-dermabrasion, etc.). As a result, a strict sun avoidance program and use of a well-formulated sunscreen are required until the skin has fully healed. It is also recommended that daytime use of AHA products be accompanied by daily SPF 15 sunscreen use.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8642081
RESULTS: Treatment with AHAs caused an approximate 25% increase in skin thickness. The epidermis was thicker and papillary dermal changes included increased thickness, increased acid mucopolysaccharides, improved quality of elastic fibers, and increased density of collagen. No inflammation was evident.
CONCLUSION: Treatment with AHAs produced significant reversal of epidermal and dermal markers of photoaging.
PMID: 8642081 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1346-8138.2006.00003.x/abstract
Keywords:
Alpha-hydroxy acid (AHA);collagen I;photo-damaged skin;procollagen I;TUNEL
ABSTRACT
Alpha-hydroxy acid (AHA) agents, such as glycolic acid and lactic acid, have been used as therapeutic agents for more than a quarter of a century. Recently, they have been used as agents to rejuvenate photo-aged skin. It is believed that these AHA agents induce the epidermis to remodel and accelerate desquamation, thus exerting their therapeutic effects. In this study, we investigated the histological differences in skin treated with glycolic, lactic, citric and acetic acids once daily for 6 weeks. The melanin pigments in the basal layer were less prominent in the glycolic and lactic acid-treated skin than in the citric and acetic acid-treated skin. The melanin deposits in the horny layers were equal for all AHA. However, the melanin deposits in the squamous layers were less prominent in the glycolic and lactic acid-treated skins than in the citric and acetic acid-treated skins; this was analogous to observations of the basal layers. Collagen I and procollagen I were increased after treatment with glycolic, lactic and citric acid in the upper dermis, but were not increased with acetic acid treatment. However, the staining of the epidermis and dermis for matrix metalloproteinase-1 (MMP-1) after treatment was not significantly different among the agents. Our data suggest that longer treatment intervals with glycolic and lactic acid can cause improvements in both the epidermal and dermal components and support the usefulness of AHA for rejuvenating photo-damaged skin.
http://www.eblue.org/article/S0190-9622(96)70002-6/abstract
Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology
Volume 34, Issue 2 , Pages 187-195, February 1996
Effects of alpha-hydroxy acids on photoaged skin: a pilot clinical, histologic, and ultrastructural study [see comments]
CM Ditre, TD Griffin, GF Murphy, H Sueki, B Telegan, WC Johnson, RJ Yu, EJ Van Scott
Abstract
Abstract
BACKGROUND: alpha-Hydroxy acids (AHAs) have been reported to improve aging skin. The mechanisms of action of AHAs on epidermal and dermal compartments need clarification. OBJECTIVE: Our purpose was to determine the effects of AHAs on photoaged human skin by clinical and microanalytic means. METHODS: Patients applied a lotion containing 25% glycolic, lactic, or citric acid to one forearm and a placebo lotion to the opposite forearm for an average of 6 months. Thickness of forearm skin was measured throughout the study. Biopsy specimens from both forearms were processed for analysis at the end of the study. RESULTS: Treatment with AHAs caused an approximate 25% increase in skin thickness. The epidermis was thicker and papillary dermal changes included increased thickness, increased acid mucopolysaccharides, improved quality of elastic fibers, and increased density of collagen. No inflammation was evident. CONCLUSION: Treatment with AHAs produced significant reversal of epidermal and dermal markers of photoaging. (J Am Acad Dermatol 1996 Feb;34(2 Pt 1):187-95)
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:18 am |
I hope to be enjoying the AHA "glow" soon !
Thanks to everyone for all the great info/links.
I am completely re-working my routine so this will be a great add in. Thinking either DIY pads or Alpha Hydrox version (which have 14%!!!)
Sister, you are gonna LOVE what lactic acid does for your body. Makes skin very smooth. |
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42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:42 am |
| So...I can slather Walgreens AHA all over my body and all will be good? Are there any other brands that can be recommended? |
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The best way to locate your cat is to open a can of food. |
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Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:17 am |
Forgive me for my ignorance--How much lactic acid should be added to the Walgreens product to get it in that optimum range?
I've started to pass this bizarre awkward stage and my skin is looking lovely. I'd definitely like to make this cream pack more punch, if possible.
We can apply it 30 minutes after Retin-A? I've been trying to figure out how to use both of these. |
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29, Tazorac, PCA cleanser/moisturizer, Clarisonic, Dermaroller/Retin-A/DIY Vit-C, Dry brushing, Ageless if you Dare |
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Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:43 am |
Great info Riley! Funny I finished up my Green Cream #9 around the time I started using this cream so it looks like I will put the Retin A on hold and just see how this continues to work for me, I am very happy with it so far! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:47 am |
| I saw on another forum where people used Carotein cream all over the body for exfoliation I bought it but have not used it just too lazy..... anyone used it before its 4oz jar for 9 dollars.... |
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Acne-prone skin ,Olive Complexion, using Derma pen ( MYM) ,Used LS & STOP,Got POSE and never used it.. Also got TRIA never used it...Microcurrent Tx and added Facial Detox massage and CP serum so far its pretty good |
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Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:07 am |
I agree. I know there are products on the market which contain both Glycolic Acid and Retinol. There are also a few products which have both Retinaldehyde and Glycolic Acid. I am not sure about Retinyl Palmitate mixed with an AHA; I didn't bother to check for that combination.
But I have never seen a product which contains tretinoin and an AHA; I realize this would have to be available by prescription only in many countries if such a product existed. I did see a patent application which combined both ingredients (United States Patent 5861432 "Glycolic acid and tretinoin formulation for the treatment of acne"), but that doesn't mean it was approved, nor does it mean that such a product has ever existed.
Personally, I think keeping AHAs and tretinoin 12 hours apart is the best solution if you really want to use both actives. This is what is done when using the Obagi Nuderm system for example ... AHA during the daytime, and Retin-A at night. I think layering would either inactivate the ingredients, or cause serious skin irritation. If anyone has any reliable information regarding the use of both ingredients at the same time, I would be interested in reading it. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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