Tanaka Facial Massage (bone, muscle & lymph drainage)
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free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:29 pm

TheresaMary wrote:

I had good results with Tanaka, but it was when I heard that the Bone was better and that it was the same as Tanaka only more pressure that I got disasterous ones. I think your right though - non-Asians should stick with Tanaka.

Not anyone's fault particularly but I was under the impression the person giving me the instructions was an English speaker, and then found out that she had used a translator and I'm guessing thats where the problem lay!

As soon as my skin and ligament is healed, I'm going back to Tanaka.

*mirjana* wrote:

I am not Asian for sure. Pure Croatian with Croatian roots Razz

43 years old one.
Tanaka massage works for me perfectly. I started to see improvements almost after two or three massages.
So I am the living proof that this massage is not recommended only for Asian girls. Smile

o my teresamary,
you're going back to the tanaka massage? i really worry if this is a good idea.
truly, i don't think anyone wants you to get hurt and am sure that they are all concerned.
please give yourself ample time to recover... and perhaps consult your GP or dermatologist first?
all the best to you.
lina

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:38 pm

I found this on youtube here is the link its Tanaka and a different way of massaging the face...dont know what they are saying...check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvh0NAwGR5Y

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:40 pm

and this is the same massage but with a different model...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krkQuWfSgkM&feature=fvw

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:28 pm

you tube is a great resource. there are many more massages there.... for eg jade scrapping, jade rolling, the magic massage, and other variations of lymphatic drainage massge.
also, a bonus, make up and skin care tutorials from pros!

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:36 am

simpleMD wrote:

Theresa...I have not seen Critics pics but I have been doing the massage as well and everyone is asking me what am I doing ? According to my co-workers I look amazing .. Smile

I didnt change anything in my diet no wt loss actually more sleepless nights as I just had a baby who is 2 months old now ...so You can imagine the stress and fatigue...but with this massage I look refreshed and face looks toned and skin is very smooth .I never had clear skin no matter what I did...and all of a sudden its luminous....I know your experience is not good with it but may be give it another chance and do just the massage and do it gently....I watched the videos many times and it didnt seem to me that the model was exerting too much pressure( to point of extreme pain?)just enough to bring more blood to the skin along with lymphatic drainage....I am not chinese in Origin as I am from India so I am an Asian too ....and I eat everything from junk foods to healthy ones (and I keep complaining abt my weight ..hahhaha)Maybe its not for you at all or may be you can try it gently first and then see how your face responds to it....just my 2 cents...
Critic brought this wonderful program to us I think we all are getting so many benefits out of it .I want to thank her one more time for that....
Moonstone you look Fab....thank you again for sharing your pics...

Hi simple, thanks for your compliment and glad to learn that you have fabulous results with Tanaka's massage. Isn't it amazing that you are looking great even though you don't have much sleep lately? ... Btw, taking some photos monthly/quarterly is definitely a good way to monitor the progress and keep yourself motivated to do the massage everyday!

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:41 am

Don't worry I'm not doing anything till its gone, and am seeing the doctor regularly to undo the damage I did with the bone stuff, but I was using Tanaka long before the bone stuff with great results, but tried it recently and it was too soon. I'm letting my face rest up, but not doing anything till my doctor gives me the all clear.

He was against what I showed him with my bone massage understanding, and I suspect that there is probably in reality a lot more to it than just pressing heavy in the same motions as Tanaka. The pictures that Critic posted recently demoing some of the exercises are very different. I was originally quite cross, as I remember her saying it was identical to Tanaka just more pressure, but realise now she's not a native English speaker so either the translator mistranslated it, or left essentials out. Trouble with the forums I suppose that we think everyone speaks the same language (well at least I was thinking that) so its a lesson learned!

llina wrote:

o my teresamary,
you're going back to the tanaka massage? i really worry if this is a good idea.
truly, i don't think anyone wants you to get hurt and am sure that they are all concerned.
please give yourself ample time to recover... and perhaps consult your GP or dermatologist first?
all the best to you.
lina

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:47 am

Simple I'm pleased that you get good results. As I said the Tanaka was doing great for me, the only reason I wanted to try it was after reading Critic's praise of it, and she said it was almost identical but much more pressure which is where the problem for me in my case began.

As soon as my face is healed and back to norm, I'm going back to the Tanaka, as that worked great for me and I'm sure will work for others. Its the bone stuff that I'm not convinced will suit everyone.

simpleMD wrote:

Theresa...I have not seen Critics pics but I have been doing the massage as well and everyone is asking me what am I doing ? According to my co-workers I look amazing .. Smile

I didnt change anything in my diet no wt loss actually more sleepless nights as I just had a baby who is 2 months old now ...so You can imagine the stress and fatigue...but with this massage I look refreshed and face looks toned and skin is very smooth .I never had clear skin no matter what I did...and all of a sudden its luminous....I know your experience is not good with it but may be give it another chance and do just the massage and do it gently....I watched the videos many times and it didnt seem to me that the model was exerting too much pressure( to point of extreme pain?)just enough to bring more blood to the skin along with lymphatic drainage....I am not chinese in Origin as I am from India so I am an Asian too ....and I eat everything from junk foods to healthy ones (and I keep complaining abt my weight ..hahhaha)Maybe its not for you at all or may be you can try it gently first and then see how your face responds to it....just my 2 cents...
Critic brought this wonderful program to us I think we all are getting so many benefits out of it .I want to thank her one more time for that....
Moonstone you look Fab....thank you again for sharing your pics...

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:47 am

Hey JLM

I agree with you on the Tanaka, as I said previously I was doing that with great results. The only reason I tried the bone stuff was due to Critic's praise of them, and her instructions in a message to me was that it was almost same as Tanaka but with more pressure. I think I read her saying something on the bone thread too - but don't have time to look now but will do so later.

Thats the one i'm a little weary of given my own results. I'm also not sure that not having all the instructions is a good thing as we can possible do damage - as I have in my case. Its healing up nicely, but I'm seeing the doc regularly and on a course of high antibioitics and painkillers, but its lot less puffy now. When my face is back to norm I will do Tanaka![quote="JLMHi Theresa,

Not to jump in on mirjana's behalf, but given what she wrote, I don't think she meant that non-Asians should stick with the Tanaka massage. I'm sure that everyone could benefit from both types of massage. However, it seems that the objectives of the two massage techniques are different: bone massage seems to be more specific for face sculpting, while the Tanaka massage seems to be geared toward promoting lymph circulation, though it does incorporate elements of bone massage.

Although the original bone massage thread is a bit confusing, I am not quite sure where you came under the impression that bone massage is the *same* as the Tanaka massage, but to exert more pressure? It seems that the links demonstrating the bone massage do not depict Ms. Tanaka at all, but show a set of 4 different exercises? In any case, I am glad that you are almost recovered from your injury & hope that the Tanaka massage works well for you.

My feeling is that because race and ethnicity are social constructions, the physical outcomes that one might achieve (say for the Tanaka massage), regardless of race, will be essentially the same. Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:05 am

I think critic only said she had success with the tanaka massage not the bone massage since she only started it recently.
Anyway your posts are just as confusing. Why dont you try other facial exercise programmes which come in english? You must have applied a lot of pressure to damage your face.
Do you have an agenda against critic? I know you're pissed off at her because you did something based on her advice and it didnt turn out well. So now you're saying her younger appearance isnt due to the tanaka massage but weightloss?
Yes I do think she probably lost some weight but that alone is not enough to make one look younger.
If it works for you, then it works for you. I think you're the best judge as to whether something works for you. You dont really need someone else's pictures to judge the effectivenss of something.
I've been doing this massage even before critic shared her pictures. It works for me. Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:08 am

I agree that having a set of clear instructions is very helpful! In any case TheresaMary, I suppose it's all water under the bridge, and I am so glad that you are healing nicely! It can be so disappointing to embark on a new beauty regime, only to end up with an unexpected result instead!

Regarding the photos of critic that some of us had seen-- we have to remember that critic is an end-user of the Tanaka/ Zogan massage herself and has no vested interest in promoting it. Thus, the pictures she has shown us are only snapshots at various points in time, taken without the intention of demonstrating the efficacy of the massage. Thus, the pictures are not consistent in how critic was posed, and what appears to be a double-chin in one photo could simply be a trick of lighting. (That's what I believe is the case in the photo in which there is a trace of a double chin.) However, based on the photos, it does appear that she was able to achieve consistent improvement over that period of time by incorporating the Tanaka massage into her routine.

I have to report that I have seen a very recent pic of critic-- wow, she is glowing. This pic was taken in a casual setting, she is wearing no makeup, and her hair is pulled back. I cannot believe how flawless this woman's skin is!!! She looks like she is wearing foundation. No sag, no lines, and a healthy, radiant glow. She looks a little tired, but she is wearing her nightrobe (and about to go to bed, I assume). (I wish I looked this good going to bed!)

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:16 am

Now now, faeriedust, I'm sure TheresaMary does not have an agenda against critic. Not to jump in, but I feel that this was just a matter of miscommunication, which can easily happen when going from one language to another.

We should keep the exchange of ideas going and feel that we can raise our points of view, albeit in a positive manner. Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:43 am

Critic told me that she had not done Bone Massage consistently but had tried it a couple of times. I don’t understand how my posts are confusing? But yours certainly are. I did apply a lot of pressure. Critic said to me that the Bone Massage was just like Tanaka but with much more pressure and she gave me some wording that kind of indicated that you needed to press heavy and so that’s what I did. I mean why wouldn’t I, her advise about Tanaka was spot on and did work, and her photos showed good results too. The Tanaka was great and is something I will return to when I make full recovery.

The bone exercises aren’t available in English is the point I was making. I’d gladly get them if they were. I think people should know this though. If the instructions were available in English - I have not seen them. I think its wise for people to be aware of that point.

I don’t have an agenda against Critic, but I was a little annoyed at having tried her suggestions and did damage. At no point did Critic say to me she was using a translator which is where I am guessing the problems have arisen. She has said she lives in China, and I knew she used English programs (Ageless and FlexEffect). Am I to be blamed for following her instructions to the letter when I thought they were precise?

Its not until I looked at her photos again did I think weightloss was involved. I have seen Moonstones photos and she looks great and has done only Tanaka. I think its better that people know the truth. Moonstone has also raised a good point that many of the Asians doing the technique have reported loosing their double chins also. I think faeriedust you have an agenda against me for saying that the bone did not work and that’s fine. I can live with that.

Thanks JLM, its definitely water under the bridge for sure, and it’s a lesson learned, and its one though that I think should be spoken about openly as others may also follow the advice and get bad results and if I can save them from it, then its worth it. I completely agree with you re the photos and her not selling it, and have said that myself above that she isn’t the creator or anything and doesn’t profit from us doing them, but I think its also important to point out that Critic has been very vocal about other before and afters, and so with her own comments about other before and afters - don’t others have a right to apply those same comments she made to her photos. She was very critical about a close friend on another site, and whilst I agree with her comments about the photos, its only fair that we take her comments and apply them to her photos.

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:30 am

I told you Theresa already that you are just throwing firecrackers around and that is what you doing around all time since than.
I am not native English speaker and I understood everything what was said in all 3 threads Critic initiated. Great thanks for Critic and all folks who participated in this.
It is not problem in Critic, or me or anything what was said in those threads. You have some issues which you must resolve with yourself alone and that's it.
Please don't bother the whole world with it anymore.

If Tanaka massage or bone massage or anything else become a problem for me, I will stop to practice it and go on to find something else what suits me and have a good results for me.
I tried some face exercises and have a few problems and stop with that immediately. Did you noticed that I ever blame some forum members for my problem? I find those exercises by advice in this forum, doing them for some time and saw that it is not good for me. I looked like crap for a few days, but I didn't try to accuse girl who wrote about that for my problem. Because it will be stupid.

Please...just stop to be so repetitive and boring.

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:17 am

Mirjana - don’t think you understood my message, because if you did you would be able to understand that its following the PRECISE WORDING about using PRESSURE but doing the same movements that got me into this problem in the first place PERIOD! the simple fact remains, the instructions for Bone ARE NOT IN ENGLISH (but please if you know of English sources point me to them - otherwise simply back off from your nasty comments).

I have thanked Critic too for the Tanaka, and loved the results it gave me and it was only because she mentioned bone that I tried to do bone and I still think Tanaka is good for us all even if we are not Asians, as it was giving me good results. However I do think it’s a valid point I’m making that the instructions for bone are not in English. If they were - then there would be no chance of such errors or mistakes happening.

The issues I have is not with myself (but your starting to give me an issue with you). I am perfectly able to accept my responsibility in following Critics instructions. I should have double checked them for sure, but in my defence, when I followed her stuff with the Tanaka and we had a video, there was no way of making such error. It is not at all me throwing firecrackers around - that’s something you and others seem to want to do to me for speaking up about this.

Tanaka DID PRODUCE GOOD RESULTS FOR ME (I don’t know how many times I need to say that!) but when I tried the same thing but with more pressure (as per Critics instructions to me) - I got into problems. When my face has healed up I will return to Tanaka and am sure it will work then. Jeez - talk about give a girl a hard time!

With the exercises you have tired, did any of them give you a problem that you had to see your doctor with? Strange but I don’t remember reading any post where you said they did - so its great that your able to fully related to my experience (even after I saw a doctor and have spoken about what he said).

I’m being repetitive sure, because I think I’ve got a valid problem that I might be able to stop others from getting - without the need for calling people boring. Just sounds like you don't want anyone mentioning anything negative about what this can do, and I'm sorry if it does negative things then people should have access to feedback from all sides just like Critic has done so before. Otherwise its one rule for one and a different one for others and thats not fair! Mad

*mirjana* wrote:

I told you Theresa already that you are just throwing firecrackers around and that is what you doing around all time since than.
I am not native English speaker and I understood everything what was said in all 3 threads Critic initiated. Great thanks for Critic and all folks who participated in this.
It is not problem in Critic, or me or anything what was said in those threads. You have some issues which you must resolve with yourself alone and that's it.
Please don't bother the whole world with it anymore.

If Tanaka massage or bone massage or anything else become a problem for me, I will stop to practice it and go on to find something else what suits me and have a good results for me.
I tried some face exercises and have a few problems and stop with that immediately. Did you noticed that I ever blame some forum members for my problem? I find those exercises by advice in this forum, doing them for some time and saw that it is not good for me. I looked like crap for a few days, but I didn't try to accuse girl who wrote about that for my problem. Because it will be stupid.

Please...just stop to be so repetitive and boring.

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:36 am

Hi Theresa

I know your going through a difficult time with stuff going on behind the scenes which you haven’t shared, but if you look at how many times you posted, you can see it looks like a bit of an attack on Critic (which I know isn’t what you intended). However, you do raise a valid point for sure: Feedback whether positive or negative is what this forum is for. Can you remind me what your doctor said again?

I think you were around back in 2007 when Deb introduced the Pressure Massage on the forum, which looks very similar to me to this bone stuff, and there was no one else doing it at that time and people thought we were mad. There is a science to the face and bone for sure, and its unfortunate that many of the resources on this aren’t yet available in English but I’m sure over time more resources will become so and then you can read up on it then.

Now if your on antibiotics is that because you have an infection of some sort - as if so, that might also be effecting your general health too. I’m guessing you discussed this all with your doctor but try not to react to the people posting above. They are passionate about a tool they have found (and have every right to be) just as we have people passionate about facial exercises. You’ll remember we have had similar things happen on them and when a technique or discovery is made that’s close to peoples hearts and works for them, they do without realizing seem to gang up on people. Often times without realizing it. Its certainly something I know I have in the past on hindsight done (like many things we all do it).

Sean

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:53 am

Thank you Shaun, I do appreciate that.

Actually I found one of the posts I was looking for:

critic wrote:

Honestly, I believe if you use more pressure when doing the the Tanaka massage, it almost like a bone facial massage.

She also said in an email to me that Bone Exercises were "just same as Tanaka but lots more pressure".

I also came across some gems of Critic’s I’m going to repost to remind people so they know its not one rule for one, and one for another:

critic wrote:

The problem in this forum is some people thought this is their regime and we are unable to post opinion. I don't want to hurt anyone and just telling my feeling. And that is the reason I have stopped visiting other topics that I am NOT interested and create the topic that I want to share with the others who will appreciate.

critic wrote:

My first posting in this topic is the bone massage program that I just bought in October, I finally manage to read the book (as it is in Japanese, I actually read whatever I can but it is with lots of step by step pictures). This program is definitely not lymph drainage program, it is focusing on pushing and bone.

critic wrote:

And yes, you are right that I am very critical about before/after photos because so many people out there are cheating. I bought the Tanaka program is based on I trust the before/after photos in the book

critic wrote:

One thing I absolutely don't understand, all the instructors in FE posted VERY unclear before/after pictures, you can hardly tell how do they look like, not convincing. Same for Loulou, does she ever post more pictures? I don't really believe in the photo that she used on the cover of her program

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:08 am

TheresaMary,
I feel badly for your injury (it's especially difficult when we inadvertedly inflict pain to ourself)...but I'm having difficulty understanding the nature of the injury and your doctor's healing protocol..

i believe you said you had torn a ligament under (or near) your jawline, which had caused lumps in that area....which i can understand as a possibility if one was not following the instructions for where (and how) to press for the bone massage...

but why would he prescribe antibiotics for a torn ligament...was there a bacterial infection that resulted (which is what antibiotics can heal)...or is it a lymph issue...in which case, i'm wondering if it may not partially be a major detox reaction...which your doc may believe is caused by some bacterial infection..

at any rate you've been taking them (antibiotics) a while now...maybe time to question your doc about why...i'd hate to see you again create some harm to your body by not totally understanding someone else's reasoning/perception/communication.

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:41 am

Sorry I thought I had mentioned this before. He prescribed me both painkillers (for the actual pain from the teared ligament, but where the ligament had torn, the place it was torn from had inflammation and infection - and so the antibiotics are to sooth those, and I have to take both throughout the day at regular intervals. He asked me what I had been doing and so I showed him, and he said that he didn’t understand why I was doing the pressure and in his mind it would do more harm than good, and I told him I was doing it to exercise the bone and just chuckled at me. I told him I was doing it before without any pressure, and he said he could see the benefits of that, but applying a lot of pressure to the jawline and forehead he didn’t think was such a great idea, and before I went to the doctor it was particularly painful moving my jaw for things like even talking (that’s why I made the appointment with him). He said that he could see there being benefits to doing it lightly but pressure was out.
I’ve never seen the bone instructions in English, and would love to see them as I’m sure that would shed a lot of light on it. I was simply told that to exercise the bone I simply had to apply more pressure (see Critic’s post above).
The antibiotix is for the infection and swelling/inflammation and the painkillers are for the pain. They are working wonderfully and its greatly decreased - and I keep saying I will go back to the ligher massage of Tanaka as that was giving me great results when things are back to normal and I get the ok from him, but I know I’m repeating but its so true I wouldn’t have attempted the bone without instructions and Critic gave me some which (I didn’t realize at the time) were not complete. I don’t think there is anything wrong with my doctor’s advice to me, he is after all a qualified doctor. It would be different if he was telling me to press into the bone, but he didn't he advised me against it, and I'm following that advise as the swelling and inflamation has definitely gone down and is a quarter of the size it was originally.

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:44 am

Thanks for clarifying TheresaMary, it makes sense to me now.

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:11 am

I think having proper instructions is a very important if not critical step to anything - be that facial exercise, massage, or any other manipulation.

I got the DVD from Japan, bought the written English translation for the DVD and had reviewed many times the instructions from the Russian website.
Following the DVD (the part where Mrs Tanaka demonstrates it) seems to be the most useful to me.

They all seem to differ a bit, so I just wish we had a chance to take a class or have a short session with Mrs.Tanaka herself. Meanwhile, following instructions we have and some common sense should suffice.

I also think that the wonderful Tanaka massage is an excellent complement to facial exercise, and am waiting for the new materials from Flexeffect that should include massage instructions as well.

Sean - any news about the release time?

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:34 pm

No news as yet, there have been production glitches with the materials, but hey they are working round the clock to try and sort it out and get it together. It wont be too long though and I think people will truly love it! Laughing

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:37 pm

can't wait for this either - lol

Jackie xx

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:49 pm

*** One Month Update ***

I've only managed to do the massage about 10 times up until now, but should have the time now to *hopefully* do it more often.

- Immediately following the massage I see some apparent lifting and firming which has typically lasted a day or two. (I'd expect this to be more cumulative, once I'm able to do the massage daily.)

- I posted this a while back in the other thread, but feel it's worth repeating as it's quite effective. All throughout the massage, not only do I keep my back teeth clenched (as instructed), but I also find that if I keep my tongue firmly pressed into the roof of my mouth, with my head tilted slightly upward, my neck and entire jawline are getting a tremendous workout... You will feel the burn by the end of the massage, and it definitely intensifies the results for me. (To get an idea, right now while you're reading this; tilt your head upward till you feel the stretch in your neck, and now clench your back teeth, and firmly plant your tongue to the roof of your mouth.. (feel the firmness with your fingers under your chin!) Anyway, just sharing what is working well for me, in case it helps others. ...

- It's also nice to finish up this massage with the "tapping" all over that I learned from Flex Effect.

Can't wait to see what a couple of weeks of daily massage can do.

*Disclaimer*...Please exercise your right to either ignore or try my suggestions above at your own risk.. Wink

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:28 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

*** One Month Update ***

I've only managed to do the massage about 10 times up until now, but should have the time now to *hopefully* do it more often.

- Immediately following the massage I see some apparent lifting and firming which has typically lasted a day or two. (I'd expect this to be more cumulative, once I'm able to do the massage daily.)

- I posted this a while back in the other thread, but feel it's worth repeating as it's quite effective. All throughout the massage, not only do I keep my back teeth clenched (as instructed), but I also find that if I keep my tongue firmly pressed into the roof of my mouth, with my head tilted slightly upward, my neck and entire jawline are getting a tremendous workout... You will feel the burn by the end of the massage, and it definitely intensifies the results for me. (To get an idea, right now while you're reading this; tilt your head upward till you feel the stretch in your neck, and now clench your back teeth, and firmly plant your tongue to the roof of your mouth.. (feel the firmness with your fingers under your chin!) Anyway, just sharing what is working well for me, in case it helps others. ...

- It's also nice to finish up this massage with the "tapping" all over that I learned from Flex Effect.

Can't wait to see what a couple of weeks of daily massage can do.

*Disclaimer*...Please exercise your right to either ignore or try my suggestions above at your own risk.. Wink

Great SUGGESTION Kassy_A, I am going to give it a go. BTW, I believe anybody giving a SUGGESTION should always put in a disclaimer. Ya just never know.....

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:07 pm

The suggestion of Kassy's to put tongue to roof of mouth and clenching back teeth and chin pointing more upward is similar to the position for many of the neck and jaw exercises in most facial exercises.

Sean - I'm really looking forward to the bone massage component.

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