early review :: Vivant Mandelic Acid 15% - pore tightening!
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free skin care · Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:42 am

mtview wrote:

Hi Theresa,

Have you considered other retinaldehyde without the glycolic? I just ordered retrinal 0.1 and will be trying it out next week. I am sick of the constant flaking from my rx retinoid. Will see what happens...fingers crossed!

I have had 2 bad dermatitis flareup in October. Don't know if it was from the weather change, stress, or the mandelic acid.

Do keep us posted if you decide to try the diacneal.

mtview,
I have been considering the Retrinal 0.1 as well so please let me know how that works for you. I was thinking of alternating Differin/retinaldehyde. I think for now I will not go with the Diacneal. I am guessing based on the pH level that it wouldn't be too exfoliating but I don't want to take a chance right now. Maybe sometime in the future though? Which rx retinoid are you using?

BTW I finally stopped using the mandelic. I think that the change in weather has something to do with my acne getting worse. Perhaps a combination of that, the mandelic and a drying C serum. My acne is so bad right now that I am actually considering going back to benzoyl peroxide! Mad

free skin care · Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:16 pm

Theresa,

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time! Sad

Since retinoids, all forms of them, take a good 6-8 works to truly work on acne, maybe your idea to go back to benzoyl peroxide is a very good one while you're waiting for the retrinal to kick in. Plus, retinoids don't heal existing blemishes (which I'm sure you already know) while the BP will. Or did BP make you drier and more irritated?

I've personally had good luck with topical erythromycin 4%, too. It works pretty fast, even on existing pimples,and there is hardly any systemic absorption. I've also used Zeno with very good results. Various stores sell it; it's quite expensive but it doesn't dry or irritate and it does actually work. Just want to see you feeling better about your skin. Smile

Kathleen

free skin care · Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:45 pm

Kathleen,
I have been using Differin forever and am still using it. I am still not sure whether I will add the retinaldehyde. I guess it is frustrating because the Differin alone does not seem to be enough to keep my acne under control. I had been using a combination of BP/clindamycin or just BP for years and my acne was under control to the point where I rarely had a pimple. But having sensitive skin it was so easy to do something to upset my skin and I got tired of the irritation. The odd thing about BP is that I can be dry and irritated and still be acne free whereas it seemed like the mandelic and drying c serums not only made me irritated and dry but made my acne much worse.

I have honestly been thinking about this alot lately because it has been one year since I gave up my BP and I have been unhappy with my skin ever since. I did go back on it in January and off it again in May. I do have concerns about the irritation it causes and the potential for free radical damage since it is an oxidizer so I would love to not have to use it. I just don't know at this point whether I want to mess around with finding a solution or just go back to the BP.

BTW my skin responds slowly to even BP and if the past is any indication it will take at least a month and probably more for me to see results.

Maybe this is something that I should think about rationally when I get over being so upset about my skin.....

free skin care · Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:46 pm

TheresaL wrote:

Kathleen,
I have been using Differin forever and am still using it. I am still not sure whether I will add the retinaldehyde. I guess it is frustrating because the Differin alone does not seem to be enough to keep my acne under control.

I can understand that. Differin is pretty mild. I use Differin on my chin and it's not enough on its own to keep pimples away.

Quote:

I had been using a combination of BP/clindamycin or just BP for years and my acne was under control to the point where I rarely had a pimple. But having sensitive skin it was so easy to do something to upset my skin and I got tired of the irritation. The odd thing about BP is that I can be dry and irritated and still be acne free whereas it seemed like the mandelic and drying c serums not only made me irritated and dry but made my acne much worse.

Maybe the acids and C are indeed causing irritation-induced acne, since it seems to me that, having been on BP or BP/Clindamycin for years, and Differin, you would not have a lot of junk buried deep in your skin that could be affected by the acids. Maybe acids are just not for you. Irritated skin is no good, you're right!

Quote:

I have honestly been thinking about this alot lately because it has been one year since I gave up my BP and I have been unhappy with my skin ever since. I did go back on it in January and off it again in May. I do have concerns about the irritation it causes and the potential for free radical damage since it is an oxidizer so I would love to not have to use it. I just don't know at this point whether I want to mess around with finding a solution or just go back to the BP.

BTW my skin responds slowly to even BP and if the past is any indication it will take at least a month and probably more for me to see results.

Maybe this is something that I should think about rationally when I get over being so upset about my skin.....

That is too bad that even BP takes a long time to work for you. I am allergic to BP and can't even use it at all.

But having dealt with acne, I know how you feel about just wanting to clear it up. I recently just said "The heck with it!" and went back to oral antibiotics to get my chin under control. And my chin was not even that bad, but I needed to restore some self-confidence and orals work 100% for me. You may be opposed to orals, though. Actually, I am, too; I tried to avoid them for the past few years, but I finally just wanted to be clear without constantly having a red, irritated and peeling chin. I am taking tons of probiotics to counteract the killing off of good bacteria and so far, that seems to be working. At least (for me, I know you cannot use acids) I don't have to take so much oral antibiotic so long as I use the Differin and 5% BHA, too.

As you said, maybe you should use the BP until your skin is clear and you are not upset anymore, then think about whether you want to try something else after that. It sounds like a good plan to me. My husband found that Azelex works as well for him as BP (I got him to switch because of the free radical thing with BP) and from what I understand, many people find Azelex almost completely non-irritating. When you are ready, maybe you could try that at some point, if you haven't already. Just a thought.

I do understand being worried about the free radicals. Maybe you could try using some topical free radical quenchers that are not irritating, or even up your intake of oral antioxidants. Again, just a thought.

I know it is not fun to be upset about your skin. Been there, done that. I was on Accutane twice, so I know how it can be. Crying or Very sad

Kathleen

free skin care · Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:11 pm

keickholt13 wrote:

Hi mtview!

I've missed you. The other board wouldn't let me PM you for some reason. Sad

I'm glad you like the 5% BHA. It's good stuff, eh? Very Happy

I think I've been using it for a couple years now.

Kathleen

Hi Kathleen,

That is weird about the "other" board. You can alway pm me on EDS or MUA. I missed you too Very Happy

It seems that the 5% bha is the only thing that helped with my blackheads. Yay!

I tried a sample of ystheal gel and had no adverse reaction. Hopefully the retrinal will work too.

Bonfei

free skin care · Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:34 pm

Bonfei,

I didn't know you were a member here or I would have contacted you, lol!

Now I will have to see where our last conversation left off. Razz

Let me know about retrinal. You know I am always looking for new things to put on my face. Laughing

Kathleen

free skin care · Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:35 pm

TheresaL wrote:

mtview,
I have been considering the Retrinal 0.1 as well so please let me know how that works for you. I was thinking of alternating Differin/retinaldehyde. I think for now I will not go with the Diacneal. I am guessing based on the pH level that it wouldn't be too exfoliating but I don't want to take a chance right now. Maybe sometime in the future though? Which rx retinoid are you using?

Hi Theresa,

My derm started me off with avage (taz cream) and I was able to use it daily for a few months. Then all of a sudden I got bad dermatitis. I tried to reintroduce avage after letting my face rest a few weeks, it didn't help. I then got renova 0.02%. I was able to build up my tolerance to every other night. I was on renova for at least 9 months. I still peeled from it Confused

I decided to give avage another try. It is actually covered by my insurance so it is much cheaper than renova. I have been using avage every other night for the past 4 months. Then dermatitis again Sad

So over the course of maybe 1.5 years on rx retinoid, I rarely had a day of flake-free face. I have to spend 10 minutes in the am peeling the flakes off before applying my s/s. Hopefully the retrinal will not make me flaky.

TheresaL wrote:

BTW I finally stopped using the mandelic. I think that the change in weather has something to do with my acne getting worse. Perhaps a combination of that, the mandelic and a drying C serum. My acne is so bad right now that I am actually considering going back to benzoyl peroxide! Mad

Hope your skin recovers soon. I have yet to find a vit c serum I can use. I gave up on that a while ago. I will keep you posted!

free skin care · Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:08 pm

Kathleen,
I just want to thank you for taking the time to patiently answer my questions, for all your suggestions and also just for your understanding. Smile

Yesterday after my big whine I did some google seraches and it helped me to realize just why I decided not to use BP in the first place. I think that for the time being I will focus on getting my skin barrier back to normal and then see just how bad my acne still is. I am hoping to be able to use the SkinMedica C but I guess I will just have to use it longer to see if my skin can tolerate that one. I think when I go to my derms next I will ask about the Azalex. I did use that before and my skin was able to tolerate that so it may be a good option. Do you know offhand which retinoid is generally the most effective for acne? Not cystic acne but mild to moderate acne. Thanks.

mtview,
please do keep me posted on the Retrinal. Just curious which C serums have you tried? Or is the list too long to post? Confused

free skin care · Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:40 pm

TheresaL wrote:

mtview,
please do keep me posted on the Retrinal. Just curious which C serums have you tried? Or is the list too long to post? Confused

Hi,

I have tried a few drugstore/health store brands. Too much silicone (esp the dime and cyclo) breaks me out. I also tried LRP Active C, Skinceuticals Ferulic, and DY Triple C. I have an allergic reaction to ferulic within a few hours of apply it. The LRP made me itch. I haven't worked up the courage to try the aox that everyone loves.

free skin care · Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:25 pm

Thanks mtview! I certainly hope that silicones don't make my acne worse. The SkinMedica is in a silicone base. Shock

I have no clue how my skin will react since I usually tend to avoid silicones. Are silicones generally bad to use if you are acne prone? I thought that they were okay but haven't really looked into it in detail. Are you thinking of trying the Skinceuticals AOX? If you are allergic to ferulic that would be a big no since all the skinceuticals C serums have been reformulated to contain ferulic.

free skin care · Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:50 pm

Theresa,

I'm very break-out and skinmedica c serum did not break me out. I found the texture soothing & comfortable although I must say it's easier to wear in dry (not necessarily cold) climates. I used it for a month in Greece (40C but dry) and wasn't a bit oilier. In Montreal where it's cold & humid, I find I'm oilier.

free skin care · Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:15 pm

TheresaL wrote:

Thanks mtview! I certainly hope that silicones don't make my acne worse. The SkinMedica is in a silicone base. Shock

I have no clue how my skin will react since I usually tend to avoid silicones. Are silicones generally bad to use if you are acne prone?

i'm not mtview, but i do know that silicones make my acne crazy. then again, i don't have the mild kind that you seem to. i usually get the deep cystic kind that never go away.

free skin care · Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:46 pm

TheresaL wrote:

Are silicones generally bad to use if you are acne prone? I thought that they were okay but haven't really looked into it in detail.

They're not known for causing breakouts. I actually used a product with dimethicone all summer as a makeup primer. It'll affect everyone differently though.

free skin care · Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:28 pm

Thanks everyone for your input on the silicones and acne.

marina I live in a very dry climate and would agree with you on the SkinMedica, it doesn't seem to make my skin oilier. I had avoided silicones for so long but now that I am actually using a product with them I am finding that they aren't so bad afterall. In fact I prefer the feel of the SkinMedica to the "sticky" feel of other C serums that I have tried.

la vie en rose I struggled with cysts all summer and am not entirely sure why since I usually don't get them. It was odd because I was also getting them where I don't normally break out. Then I just stopped getting them. I do think that taking Black Currant oil helped and adding products with niacinamide seemed to help too. But I am just guessing. Regardless I am just happy that they stopped!

free skin care · Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:44 pm

TheresaL wrote:

Thanks mtview! I certainly hope that silicones don't make my acne worse. The SkinMedica is in a silicone base. Shock

I have no clue how my skin will react since I usually tend to avoid silicones. Are silicones generally bad to use if you are acne prone? I thought that they were okay but haven't really looked into it in detail. Are you thinking of trying the Skinceuticals AOX? If you are allergic to ferulic that would be a big no since all the skinceuticals C serums have been reformulated to contain ferulic.

Theresa,

I have freakish skin so YMMV Laughing

Cyclomethicone and dimethicone give me whiteheads but cyclopentasiloxane is fine with me. Go figures!

I don't think I am going to try AOX. Too scared after my ferulic experience. Wish I can use a vit c serum to get that glow. I also tried homemade version but it was too strong for me (ph too low?)

Hope skinmedica continues to work for you.

free skin care · Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:36 am

Mtview,

That's too bad that even the Triple C bothers you. Sad

Most everyone seems to find it soothing and I was going to suggest it, but so much for that... I wonder if it's the l-ascorbic they put in it, or did you try DY's private label without l-ascorbic?

I think the Skinceuticals and Cellex-C are horribly irritating, even to normal skin.

I liked LRP Active C, but it only has 5% C and I'm pretty sure the studies show you need at least 10% to do anything, so I'm not sure what the deal is with this product and their clinical results. I think LRP is a good company and does a lot of research, so I'm curious how they obtained good results with the Active C. I'd like to find out more about it. I tried the one for normal to dry but I bet the new lighter one has a better texture.

I wonder if a plain MAP in water would work for you guys? The pH is not low and there is a pubmed study that shows MAP to be as effective as l-ascorbic.

Theresa,

I also don't break out from the silicones, includinge clycomethicone or dimethicone. (In fact, it's one of the few things that doesn't break my chin out.)

I don't know if this helps any, but my chin breaks out from EVERYTHING it seems and it was never bothered by silicones for some reason. My nose, neither.

Kathleen

free skin care · Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:48 am

keickholt13 wrote:

I don't know if this helps any, but my chin breaks out from EVERYTHING it seems and it was never bothered by silicones for some reason

Why is that!? That is really the only place I've ever had problems with breaking out as well. If it's "hormonal", like some call it, why is it isolated to one area? Is there even an answer to this, or is it one of life's not so great mysteries......?

free skin care · Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:11 am

You raise a great question! I wish I knew the answer. I also have been told/read it's hormonal, but I don't know why that would make only the chin break out. Confused

Perhaps the chin has a greater concentration of oil glands, but certainly my nose is the oiliest part of my face and while I have to use 5% BHA to keep the blackheads at bay, it never breaks out with pimples!

But the female chin is a definite problem, well after the teenage years have come and gone. Mad

I know what acids help to alleviate this problem, but I share your confusion about WHY it happens in the first place!!

It does seem to affect adult women more than teenagers, so the hormonal thing makes sense in that regard. (That is, adult women often grow out of acne EXCEPT on their chin) and maybe women develop adult acne only on their chin.

Maybe some great minds can chip in and help us out! Very Happy

I will try to see if there is anything about this on pubmed. If you find out anything, please let us know!

Kathleen

free skin care · Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:28 pm

Kathleen and my sushi secret,
Take a look at the following article by Dr. Fulton that explains adult acne in women. I am not entirely sure what to make of it but it is very interesting.
http://www.betterhealthyskin.com/kba_acne_in_adult_women.aspx
Theresa

free skin care · Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:38 pm

That was interesting! Thanks for finding that, Theresa. Smile

I found this statement particularly interesting:
:Acne usually travels across the face like a wave, starting on the nose, central forehead and chin area, and spreading out laterally to the jaw line over about a 10-year period."

Maybe that explains the "chin syndrome."

I totally believe that female acne has gotten worse due to hormone problems. It seems every chemical (including the stuff they put on our food) is estrogenic! I had many symptoms of estrogen dominance and my acne significantly improved when I started using progesterone cream. But alas, my chin still gave me a bit of a problem. Sad

I also had adrenal problems. I noted the docs in the study had used 5 mg of prednisone (synthetic cortisone) in some patients. I've had to take supplemental cortisol (I take Cortef, the natural form) for some time and that improved my acne as well. As well as host of other problems I won't get into and bore you all... Cool

But unlike their explanation that they were giving the drug to shut down the body's production of hormones, I actually didn't have enough to begin with, which means my body's natural anti-inflammatory hormone, cortisol, wasn't able to do its job.

Thanks for finding this article for us! Very Happy

Kathleen

free skin care · Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:34 pm

Wow, this is a really old thread. I wonder if you girls are still around?

I've been reading so much good stuff about Mandelic Acid and was planning on purchasing the GoW mandelic Acid (10 percent no alcohol, no seaweed).
I don't use AHA (it breaks me out), but, for 2 weeks now, I've been using a spot treatment which contains salycic acid, lactic acid, sulfur and zinc.
I was wondering if I can just start using Mandelic Acid? Or do I have to use some sort of AHA or Retinoid first? Don't know where I read that... I also have really sensitive skin, so should I maybe try the 5% version first?
I want to address the blackheads, slight breakouts, and clogged pores on my nose.

free skin care · Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:42 am

You don't have to do any special prep for Mandelic. I use MUAC's 25%. I stopped for a while as I was using the Palovia daily, but have started the Mandelic weekly again. I love this stuff! It plumps up my skin nicely (temporarily, alas...) and does fade red pigment spots.

Even the 25% is pretty gentle (my skin is normal, not sensitive though), I can go out right afterwards and look fine (due to the plumping). A day or two later, I get a little flaking, but very manageable.

free skin care · Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:34 pm

It does sound great! Very Happy

I tried to use the Walgreen's AHA cream for a while, but it broke me out pretty badly. I am so unlucky when it comes to topicals Sad

so I'm hoping I can find something that finally works.
I read somehwere on this thread that I should see improvement pretty instantly, is that true?

I ordered the 5% and 10% GoW sample, crossing my fingers!

free skin care · Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:30 pm

Penta wrote:

I read somehwere on this thread that I should see improvement pretty instantly, is that true?

Yes, I noticed an immediate improvement with Mandelic - first time I used it. It seemed to me that I needed to continue using it at least weekly to keep the improvements though. As long as you're not doing anything else harsh to your skin (laser, chem peels, etc), weekly is not likely to be a problem. I'm back on the weekly use. MUAC says you can use it every 4 days, but since I'm still doing the Palovia laser twice a week, I think that would be too much for me.

free skin care · Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:36 pm

That's awesome. Smile

At least then, if I don't get immediate results, I know it's not for me. I really really hate it when products give you an initial breakout that, in the end, might not even be purging but just your skin being unhappy with the product.
So, do you think if I don't see anything in the first, say, 2 days, then I might as well stop using it? I just got the sample and I can give it to my best friend if it doesn't work for me.
I just don't want to use it for 2 weeks and look for improvement every single day - it's such an emotional roller coaster.

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