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Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:20 am  |
| Hermosa wrote: |
The Tanaka may address lymph drainage, but the desired effect appears to focus on reshaping the face. That's what the pictures seem to emphasize, vs, say, a reduction in undereye puffiness or a more vibrant complexion (which I would have assumed to be the major benefits of improved lymphatic circulation). So if the actual result is a reshaped face vs better circulation, Tanaka may not be as satisfactory for a narrow face.
The fact that the massage is promoted on a Russian site means little. Most of Russia is in Asia, and Russians of Asian ancestry represent a significant minority of the population. |
Agreed! this is simply a lymph massage, it does not matter whether you're Asian or Westeners, men or women. |
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:11 am |
Well, I can see how perhaps the Tanaka massage *might* be better suited for certain *shapes* of faces compared to other... following this line of reasoning, based on the posts here, it would seem that Tanaka would be more effective on rounder faces?
However, I have a small, narrow, oval shaped face, and based on my own experience, I have found Tanaka very helpful in diminishing my NL's. I have not noticed any gauntness while doing Tanaka, but I find it very interesting that others have. Perhaps this is due to better lymph circulation? If there is any bone remodeling going on, I would think that these effects would not be evident unless the massage was being done over a long period of time.
On a side note, I am very excited to resume Tanaka! I had quit because of breakouts, but I have purchased a professional high frequency machine to deal with this... I love it and wish I had gotten one earlier! After doing the massage, I use the HF machine for about 5 minutes to clean & detox the surface of the skin. So far (three days, 1x/ day) no breakouts & my pores are getting smaller! I am hoping to eventually do Tanaka 2x/ day, since I found that to be most effective for me. |
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:43 am |
| JLM wrote: |
Well, I can see how perhaps the Tanaka massage *might* be better suited for certain *shapes* of faces compared to other... following this line of reasoning, based on the posts here, it would seem that Tanaka would be more effective on rounder faces?
However, I have a small, narrow, oval shaped face, and based on my own experience, I have found Tanaka very helpful in diminishing my NL's. I have not noticed any gauntness while doing Tanaka, but I find it very interesting that others have. Perhaps this is due to better lymph circulation? If there is any bone remodeling going on, I would think that these effects would not be evident unless the massage was being done over a long period of time.
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That sounds really reasonable. My face is kind of round shaped, and I am very satisfied with effects of massage I got.
And I think that is very important to know that overworking this massage can produce unwanted result. Once a day or every other day is enough by my opinion for us near 45 or older. Age is important fact to consider in this matter. |
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trying to stay young and to learn English a little bit better  so if it make you laugh - don't LOL  |
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:16 am |
Here is the link for Bone massage from russian site.you will need to translate it to english using google toolbar
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Acne-prone skin ,Olive Complexion, using Derma pen ( MYM) ,Used LS & STOP,Got POSE and never used it.. Also got TRIA never used it...Microcurrent Tx and added Facial Detox massage and CP serum so far its pretty good |
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:03 am |
here is picture of a member who has been doing bone exercises from a different forum
http://forum.nat2net.com/index.php?showtopic=383&st=0 |
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Acne-prone skin ,Olive Complexion, using Derma pen ( MYM) ,Used LS & STOP,Got POSE and never used it.. Also got TRIA never used it...Microcurrent Tx and added Facial Detox massage and CP serum so far its pretty good |
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:01 am |
My face shape is round/squarish, and I like the Tanaka. I noticed some significant gauntness a week or so ago and eased back on everything, but I think I can attribute that to certain facial exercises.
I can't really understand why lymph massage would cause gauntness, but can't negate what people are experiencing. I'd love to hear an explanation, though.
One movement I have incorporated into the massage is to swoop behind the ears on the way down, since there are lymph glands there. I don't know if it makes a difference, but it feels good. |
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:34 am |
| Hermosa wrote: |
| True, most of the population is in Europe, and the majority are ethnic Russians, but the country is still a vast melting pot of ethnic minorities. |
Not quite true again - actually, most of the population is ethnically Slavic (could be Russians, Ukrainians, etc.), and not so much a melting pot of ethnic minorities like it is here in the USA. Only people who are not very familiar with the country and the true relationships with minorities would say that.
In the past the Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, ... were part of the Soviet Union, but have since became separate countries. The only remaining part is a small region of Tatarstan (i.e. city of Kazan being it's capital; and ethnic Tartars do have clearly Asian features).
Most of the ladies in these forums have very Caucasian features, and enjoy the Tanaka massage without adverse side effects (except occasional breakouts die to lymph liquid stagnation).
They also employ many other techniques from all over the world (Bone massage, Italian Lifting massage, German face gymnastics by Cantieni, some from Latin America, etc.). Having in the past many scientific institutes/research centers that study other cultures, and speaking the language and being able to understand and translate, and not having the financial resources to do Botox or plastic surgery seem to get them really resourceful and creative.
I find the level of knowledge and resourcefulness admirable and hope to learn from them. Also, they put a lot of emphasis on a wholistic/healing aspect of things (herbs, good diet, physical activity, yoga, massages, etc.).
HTH |
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Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:40 pm |
I am also suspecting that tanaka massage gives me breakouts along my jawline...I was on holidays and didnt do the massage for a while and acne started to clear..once i returned home and did the massage for 3 days..i got a breakout again...!but i am so fickle with my routine i can never be 100% sure as in what is causing what!...am trying to work on the discipline part currently.
I use dessert essence ADE cleanse to do the massage and like to do in the morning to rid of puffiness...and find it really effective for that.
I will give it one more go after maybe a week and will let know how it goes! |
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32, medium skin, living in Hong Kong, have PCOS(currently trying naturopathy), moderate hormonal acne along jawline |
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Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:51 am |
I think I've been doing this for 3 or so weeks now (I forgot when I started!). At first I noticed a difference, but now sort of a standstill. I will keep it up, maybe this is just what happens. It diminished my slight NL folds that really only appear after I've laughed a lot or slept on my side. I used to be able to feel a dip in the skin right there when I first woke up. Now it's smooth!
But I am also on tretinoin and using HSO....so damn, it's hard to be scientific with all this going on!
But I DID get a neck and collar bone breakout (7 pimples)...draining the lymph I suppose?! |
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31 - KMF Olive oil soap, OCM, Tazorac, Vit C Serum, Hyaluronic Acid Serum, 50 SPF |
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Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:05 pm |
| simpleMD wrote: |
| Here is the link for Bone massage from russian site.you will need to translate it to english using google toolbar |
I am trying to open it but the link is going to the registration page. Has anyone opened it successfully?
Are those results from a bone massage or some other things? She doesn't explain anything in her posts... |
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Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:21 pm |
Yea those were the links to the bone massage and pics of a lady who did it with good results...and I am able to open the links .....no problems here .
Explain what? plz explain what you want me to explain?
I am talking about Bone massage "Korugi" that russian forum has videos of that massage ...I can open the links dont know why u can't ...don't know what to tell you......now  will try to get a different link where u can see pics I am registered at one forum ( where videos are) the other forum where pics are am not a member of....but still able to see pics.. |
_________________
Acne-prone skin ,Olive Complexion, using Derma pen ( MYM) ,Used LS & STOP,Got POSE and never used it.. Also got TRIA never used it...Microcurrent Tx and added Facial Detox massage and CP serum so far its pretty good |
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Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:53 pm |
| simpleMD wrote: |
Explain what? plz explain what you want me to explain?
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SimpleMD,
I didn't mean that you do not explain. I meant that the lady who posted pictures there, she just posted pictures of before and after but she doesn't indicate it was a result of bone massage or something else, she just posted pictures in that thread. So it is not clear what the result id from. |
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Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:09 pm |
| That lady is registered at the forum with the same name on the vids forum ( i know confusing) but posted her pics on the other forum .... if you are able to see the vids she mentions she has been doing the korugi...I was just saying some people are getting good results I am doing tanaka's every two -3 days and see huge difference in my skin and took pics ...Looking lot better than last yr ..not ten yrs younger but face is looking toned and fresh ...also doing little bit of Korugi here n there not daily....hubby said u look really fresh and skin is lot clearer little sagging I was worried about is gone NL still there but better...but I am very cautious when I apply pressure not so much that I HURT MYSLEF just enough where I do feel slight pain dont know if very painful pressure is needed but things are looking better... |
_________________
Acne-prone skin ,Olive Complexion, using Derma pen ( MYM) ,Used LS & STOP,Got POSE and never used it.. Also got TRIA never used it...Microcurrent Tx and added Facial Detox massage and CP serum so far its pretty good |
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Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:02 pm |
Little clarification - that lady does a lot of things (facial exercises being the primary cause for her face improvenets), and Bone massage and Tanaka massage as well.
HTH |
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Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:46 pm |
well, that's what I thought, we all are doing a bit of everything and it is getting hard to pin point what exactly is working on us as a bottom line.
I do Tanaka massage myself (lymph massage) and I am a big proponent of it. Not only do I see the positive results, but looking at the principle of it, I just do not see how it can hurt anyone as a proper lymph circulation is one of the major conditions for healthy body. The role of the lymph is to cary out the impurities, so as long as we do not hurt but gently stimulate the lymph nodules to circulate the lymph effectively, we can only benefit from this.
Now about bone massage: yes thank you I was able to see the video after I registered on there site. But here is what I do not understand about BONE massage:
There is no explanation on what we are trying to achieve with each move/pressure position!
I see the instructions how to do it. I see a face of a lady who is demonstrating this, and yes her face is Asian, so she is obviously working on some issues which are important for this or similar type of faces, but I have no clue what she is trying to achieve. Russian language is not a problem in this case, there is no explanation of the goal or focus issue.
For example, when I follow FlexEffex or Ageless, I see the instructions how to do it and the focus point like "higher chicks" or "fill the under eye area" etc... so it helps me to understand on which exercise I should focus more and on which ones to go easy. |
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Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:11 pm |
I am only doing Tanaka's mainly bone exercises not so much I do have ageless ebook somewhere never tried it looked too cumbersome to me huh ? Am So lazy  But Tanaka's massage really works I have no doubts about it...but when I was doing it daily it broke me out now do 2-3 days interval works well for me.... |
_________________
Acne-prone skin ,Olive Complexion, using Derma pen ( MYM) ,Used LS & STOP,Got POSE and never used it.. Also got TRIA never used it...Microcurrent Tx and added Facial Detox massage and CP serum so far its pretty good |
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Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:37 am |
Did Tanaka originally and had great results, thenfollowed bad instructions on the bone stuff from someone who posted me, and it was a disaster. I did myself more harm than good. Stuff has gone down now, but I got to say I'm a little worried about doing anything where you don't have full instructions, as I believe you can at times do more harm than good.
I've been doing the FE bone stuff and I have to say my face never looked so good. Tanaka did work well for me in the beginning, and up to that point I hadn't had those kind of results, but I trusted the person who spoke about it, and then suggested the bone and sent me details. What I didn't realise was this person was interpreting pictures, not actually able to read the text which is why it probably delivered such bad results as I'm sure there were contraindications and suggestions that you don't get from photos alone.
With the FE bone stuff, I think the purpose is to prevent and stimulate the bone. As we age, the bones go through a process whereby they start being absorbed by the body. FE has a lot of science data in the book that just doesn't interest me personally, but its great to have it there, and I really find that the demo's on the dvd is one of the best, plus its great to have details in English, so I can't go wrong. I even like how Deb talks about the bone supplement she is taking (as thats not something anyone has mentioned in the bone exercises thread) and it makes sense to me that if your working the bone, you may need a supplement or two to help them heal up faster.
| ella-stella wrote: |
Now about bone massage: yes thank you I was able to see the video after I registered on there site. But here is what I do not understand about BONE massage:
There is no explanation on what we are trying to achieve with each move/pressure position!
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Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:40 am |
 , interesting... I didn't know about FE bone massage. Is it in the new edition of her book and DVD? I have the older version then |
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Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:14 am |
Yes its in the later edition. There is both a bone massage and bone exercises, but there is also a technique for skin that has transformed my nl lines!
The new book has 30 exercises (whereas the old one had 40), but then its got some new stuff that they didn't have before.
| ella-stella wrote: |
| , interesting... I didn't know about FE bone massage. Is it in the new edition of her book and DVD? I have the older version then |
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Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:48 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Yes its in the later edition. There is both a bone massage and bone exercises, but there is also a technique for skin that has transformed my nl lines!
The new book has 30 exercises (whereas the old one had 40), but then its got some new stuff that they didn't have before.
| ella-stella wrote: |
| , interesting... I didn't know about FE bone massage. Is it in the new edition of her book and DVD? I have the older version then |
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I wish this wasn't the busy time of year for my job because I am totally overwhelmed and haven't had time to read and watch the dvd in the new Flexeffect Edition completely....but from what I have gleamed it is well thought out and a wonderful reference for information and techniques for the face and neck as we age. It is well worth the investment...even if someone wasn't into facial exercises the other information is definitely valuable. I will also post this on the Flexing thread. |
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female,"50 something" medium to thick normal skin, no wrinkles,Lightstim,Easy Eye Solutions,Green Smoothies,Ageless Secret Gold, Pico Toner,Beautiful Image |
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Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:00 pm |
| Very excited to add Flex Effect to Tanaka. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:24 am |
OK, I'm back to doing Tanaka 2x/ day! Yay!
I use my high frequency device after every massage for about 3-5 minutes. No more breakouts, and the ones that I do get are very quickly resolved. Not like the cysts that would hang around for months before.
My skin is looking really good! My pore size and skin texture has been noticeably refined in the past 2 1/2 weeks that I've been using my HF device.
Interestingly enough, I have a few small pimples along my hairline at my temple, where I am less vigilant with my HF device. I suppose this means that my face would be a real mess if I wasn't using the HF device!
(I have a professional high frequency device, which is akin to a DermaWand.)
Also, just a reminder to follow the lymph line along the neck to finish every move-- I was bringing the finishing move towards the front of the neck and not getting any results for a while. I revisited the translation that I brought & the situation has been rectified! |
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Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:51 pm |
No matter what shape bone structure you have, lymph massage should be beneficial because its main purpose is to drain toxins.
Korugi, on the other hand, attempts to reshape the face. |
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Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:25 pm |
| JLM wrote: |
OK, I'm back to doing Tanaka 2x/ day! Yay!
I use my high frequency device after every massage for about 3-5 minutes. No more breakouts, and the ones that I do get are very quickly resolved. Not like the cysts that would hang around for months before.
My skin is looking really good! My pore size and skin texture has been noticeably refined in the past 2 1/2 weeks that I've been using my HF device.
Interestingly enough, I have a few small pimples along my hairline at my temple, where I am less vigilant with my HF device. I suppose this means that my face would be a real mess if I wasn't using the HF device!
(I have a professional high frequency device, which is akin to a DermaWand.)
Also, just a reminder to follow the lymph line along the neck to finish every move-- I was bringing the finishing move towards the front of the neck and not getting any results for a while. I revisited the translation that I brought & the situation has been rectified! |
hey what brand of high frequency device are you using? do u also have a dermawand? how do they compare? why did you choose it over the dermawand? thanks |
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23yr old Asian with combination skin prone to clogged pores. hyperpigmentation from pimples. uneven skintone, scars |
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Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:03 am |
Hi faeriedust,
I purchased my professional grade HF device from here:
http://www.palaciaskincare.com/professional-grade-portable-high-frequency-machine-c-155-p-1-pr-237.html
I *love* this thing! Way, way better than the DW. There has been a discussion about professional grade HF devices vs DW on the DW thread:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18205
Perhaps you could check out the last few pages?
As I mentioned on that thread, the reasons why I love my HF device more than my DW are one, the zapping hurts less, and two, my skin is just looking really good! The DW did a fine job, but the HF device has taken things to a whole new level! My pores have really shrunk, and the texture of my skin is much more refined. The thing is, these effects have happened very quickly (about 2 1/2 weeks.) I am much less acne prone, and while I have gotten a few blemishes, it is nothing like how it was like when I was doing Tanaka 2x/ day previously. They are small and heal super quickly, and my old acne scars from the cystic acne that I've gotten before are really fading fast!
The interesting thing to me is how I *think* my hyperpigmentation (spots) on my cheeks are also fading... I will continue to monitor & see if this continues with usage of the HF device.
And if you've ever had a spa facial, this is the zapping machine that they will frequently use after the extractions.
(BTW I am 39 yrs. old.) |
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