newbie facial exercise semi- disaster
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free skin care · Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:48 am

Hi Theresa
My neck is in good shape but the little area under the chin is ugly and wobbly! Now I don't know if the frownie people meant the whole neck or just that little area but I do see guys at the gym training their necks with weight plates and they do build up.

I have used the neckline slimmer 2 years ago, it is a little device you put under your chin and push down. It firmed up all of my neck but that spot under my chin!

free skin care · Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:16 pm

TheresaMary wrote:

With facial exercises, the muscles I believe start at the bone and end into the skin, so when your working the muscles, you’ll be hitting the skin and bone too to some degree. Whilst there isn’t scientific evidence that facial exercises don’t do anything for bone/skin, its also interesting to note that there isn’t actually any evidence that they don’t do anything for the bone/skin also.

Actually... there is a bit of evidence against it doing anything for the mere fact that in the research were it's been proven that it DOES something, the tensile forces are way stronger. To reach those tensile forces in the skin, you would have to stretch it to the extent that it would disrupt the fibroblasts.

TheresaMary wrote:

FlexEfefct did have a study though done by a physical therapy centre in California. I’ve never seen photos (don’t know if any are available Claudia?) but this is the blurb from their website:

Eureka Physical Therapy in Eureka, California and Deborah Crowley founder of FlexEffect conduct an independent study on the effects of Facialialbuilding.
Under the direction of Deborah Crowley,a panel of healthy females (average age 45) trained daily for a period of two weeks in Facial Resistance Training (FlexEffect)

The results showed an average 35% increase in facial muscle strength. 100% of the panelists
reported an increase in facial firmness.
FlexEffect Faciailbuilding is a new approach in the recovery of Bell Palsy. Now being offered at
Mad River Hospital in Arcata, CA.

The thing is that, as I said, an increase in facial strength would be an obvious result. However, what does it mean regarding skin condition and wrinkles? Of course you can never trust an unblinded study because obviously people will tend to say that their skin looks better.
But if you see people with Bell's palsy, for example, you will see that the part that they don't move actually looks LESS wrinkled than the one they move. So yeah, excercises are good for muscles. For skin? I'm not too sure.

Even for overall face structure, I'm not sure how much it can do. For example, studies in HIV patients (who usually have lipodystrophy), the standard is still fillers because excercise really doesn't do much.

I think there are different aspects of aging, including wrinkling, sagging, change of facial structure, etc. Can facial excercise help in any of these aspects? I think if anything, it could help in facial structure changes because you would maintain muscles but that's as much benefit of the doubt as I'm willing to give at this time. Can it cause dynamic wrinkles? I don't know.

We all respond to different things differently so if it's working for some people, then I'm nothing but happy for them!

There’s also other articles/research on this page:

http://www.flexeffect.com/research.htm

That you might find interesting.

Now I’m not so sure that facial exercises are designed to strengthen resting tone, but actually prevent the facial muscles from sagging and slackening and becoming longer. That’s one of the reasons why our mouth corners drop etc, because the muscles that attach to them, become longer and as a result the lines and skin get taken along with the drooping muscle.

Josee wrote:

This has been a great thread.

To be honest, there is no evidence at all whatsoever that facial excercises do absolutely anything to the skin (or bone).

They could obviously do something for muscles and thus change face structure a bit.

The papers quoted as research really deal with different type of muscles, with different type of fiber distribution, with a lot different weight, tension, etc, etc. So it's really comparing apples to oranges. In resistance excercises where bone grows, the pull used is much bigger than you use on your skin, and when the tendon is stressed it reacts.
In body building, you can stretch and put a lot of stress without really affecting your skin because the muscles are not attached to the skin. So you can pull the muscle and your skin will "slide" and not get really stretched. However, in your face, the muscles are "attached" to the skin so you can't push the muscles as much without pulling the skin.

Yes, I know that some people have had good experiences but is it really due only do the excercises or is it due to their skin care routine? I don't know. I tend to be skeptical in general so unless I see real measurements I just... remain skeptical.

I'm very scared of dynamic wrinkles but I'm not sure that just a bit of excercise every now and then could hurt. I also think that some things could be useful... if with excercises I could strengthen my resting tone for certain muscles (let's say around the mouth area) then maybe I could have a slightly upward mouth resting expression.... that would be nice.

Just my humble opinion.

[/quote]

free skin care · Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:11 pm

TheresaMary wrote:

FlexEfefct did have a study though done by a physical therapy centre in California. I’ve never seen photos (don’t know if any are available Claudia?) but this is the blurb from their website:

I suspect if there were photos that either 1)Deb would have them up, or 2)people wanted to maintain privacy. I'll ask about it. I just don't think they exist. Sorry.

free skin care · Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:37 pm

Hi Josee,

I think the discussion is interesting as well. But, your comment about how the paraylzed side of a Bell's Palsy patients face doesn't appear as wrinkled, put me in mind of a conversation I once had with someone who had Bells. The patient, who was using Facercise as part of his rehabilitation, told me that he was so excited when he noticed crinkles appear at the corners of his eyes again, because that meant he could squint! So you see, it's really all about perspective. Also, a face that has no dynamic wrinkles at all is really just a blank canvas. If you look closely, even children have dynamic wrinkles; it's what gives character to their faces. I'd much rather have a well toned face than sagging cheeks and jawline. Honestly, facial exercises don't cause wrinkles. I actually think that by building facial muscles you can not only make up for lost volume, but disguise wrinkles because they flaten out due to increased lift and volume. I can't say whether facial exercises will work for HIV patients because facial wasting is a whole other ballgame. I believe they have meds and other methods for those patients because the volume loss is so massive is some... very sad. Best, Aprile

free skin care · Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:34 am

Josee wrote:

Actually... there is a bit of evidence against it doing anything for the mere fact that in the research were it's been proven that it DOES something, the tensile forces are way stronger. To reach those tensile forces in the skin, you would have to stretch it to the extent that it would disrupt the fibroblasts.

There isn’t specific evidence that I’m aware of. What there is evidence of is that repetitive movements such as expressions age the skin, which is very different than using resistance to work the muscles. There isn’t anything specific that names a facial exercise program as aging that i’m aware of, but if you know of studies please do point me in that direction – I’d be interested to learn more.

Josee wrote:

The thing is that, as I said, an increase in facial strength would be an obvious result. However, what does it mean regarding skin condition and wrinkles? Of course you can never trust an unblinded study because obviously people will tend to say that their skin looks better.
But if you see people with Bell's palsy, for example, you will see that the part that they don't move actually looks LESS wrinkled than the one they move. So yeah, excercises are good for muscles. For skin? I'm not too sure.

I’m in agreement (for once) with Aprile that I’ve seen several people with bells palsy who don’t actually look less wrinkled on the side they are unable to move, but look worse off (but that’s just personal opinion) and I’ve wondered if that’s because their face has somewhat degenerated moreso because they’ve been unable to move it. Whilst things like botox and bells palsy limit expression, they don’t limit the tissue aging anymoreso. In fact someone was saying a little while ago that they were likely to age faster as a result. I don’t agree with that fully, but its definitely an argument that got my attention although I’m no scientist I can’t understand the logic behind that, but its interesting.

Josee wrote:

Even for overall face structure, I'm not sure how much it can do. For example, studies in HIV patients (who usually have lipodystrophy), the standard is still fillers because excercise really doesn't do much.

I had to ask someone else about this, and this is what this trainer had to say. With HIV the immune system is already overly challenged (well that’s a given), but with something like facial training, their body is already challenged so of course anything that involves challenging their bodies moreso is not a good idea. With any immune deficiency the body is compromised to some degree and therefore the facial structure is not going to be high on this person’s body’s survival priorities. Whilst fillers are standard procedures recommended, they are often needed to be repeated, and by no means a permanent effect. I don’t know whether he has worked with HIV people specifically, and don’t know anyone with that condition so its completely outside my scope of knowledge, but I do remember reading one time that cancer patients weren’t usually advised to have massage treatments (which I had to read up as my dh was diagnosed with it – and he’s in remission now).

Josee wrote:

I think there are different aspects of aging, including wrinkling, sagging, change of facial structure, etc. Can facial excercise help in any of these aspects? I think if anything, it could help in facial structure changes because you would maintain muscles but that's as much benefit of the doubt as I'm willing to give at this time. Can it cause dynamic wrinkles? I don't know.

I think the problem is that there are so many different types of facial exercise programs out there that its impossible to make any such generalizations on any one, as they are all different (and I own quite a few I’ll be the first to confess) but with dynamic wrinkles, it’s a very different thing from say making an expression, and using resistance to work a muscle.

Josee wrote:

We all respond to different things differently so if it's working for some people, then I'm nothing but happy for them!

Without doubt that’s true, but like most things I think its difficult to make assumptions based on evidence (or lack of) when in reality there’s so many different programs out there that are all somewhat different.

free skin care · Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:13 am

No worries, I suspected that ws the case. Has your mum ever done any other studies? I mean she seems to be around the longest doing facial exercises, I can't help but wonder why she hasn't done more. Aprile has Maggio ever had any studies done? I know someone said Gary of Happy Face Yoga was commissioning a study or something a little while ago but nothing more ever came of it.

ClaudiaFE wrote:

I suspect if there were photos that either 1)Deb would have them up, or 2)people wanted to maintain privacy. I'll ask about it. I just don't think they exist. Sorry.

free skin care · Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:28 am

Hi there! I just got off the phone with Deb... asked if there were pictures. She said no. She said they used a bio feedback machine to measure the strength increase. RE: other studies. Nothing in a lab. We struggle with this idea. For one, it's expensive. Additionally, it always seems that when one runs their own studies, well, it's just assumed that one got the results they were looking for Wink

, and so the results can't be trusted. Which just then seems like a waste of money all the way around. Results we claim are those reported by real users. And let's face it. There are those that don't like their results, or don't think they get ENOUGH. Often this has to do with unrealistic expectations. Or doing their own thing, and calling it by another name. Which is the same thing you hear with bodybuilding. I've seen little to no results with extreme effort. I've seen crazy imbalances due to failure to pay attn. It's quite the same with the face. There are some simple facts that impact a persons equation towards success. And first you must define success. If success is an airbrushed model on the cover of Allure, or somehow completely resculpting your face to look like a certain actress, then success is not attainable. If success is looking in a mirror and seeing a noticable improvement, If it's feeling your tissues become thicker, Gaining control over certain muscles, once lost, then you're on the right track. But then you have these variables: Their DNA, what they've done to their body in the past (illness or abuse), and what they do now.

TheresaMary wrote:

No worries, I suspected that ws the case. Has your mum ever done any other studies? I mean she seems to be around the longest doing facial exercises, I can't help but wonder why she hasn't done more. Aprile has Maggio ever had any studies done? I know someone said Gary of Happy Face Yoga was commissioning a study or something a little while ago but nothing more ever came of it.

ClaudiaFE wrote:

I suspect if there were photos that either 1)Deb would have them up, or 2)people wanted to maintain privacy. I'll ask about it. I just don't think they exist. Sorry.

free skin care · Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:40 am

brings to mind the old addage-
Patient asks Dr
When this is done, will I be ble to play the piano?
Dr-
Why yes!
Patient-
Wow - that is amazing dr- I never could before!

free skin care · Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:46 am

sorry- could not resist...

free skin care · Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:02 pm

Hi Theresa,

No she has not. I am sure it would be rather expensive to have an independent medium scale study performed. Of course, any university studies would never involve something as natural as facial exercise. They would much rather invest funds in studies involving drugs because that's where the money is. Heck, there aren't even any large scale studies on bioidentical hormones that I'm aware of because there's no money in it. Nothing at stake for the pharmaceutical companies because you can't patent nature. I know I sound pessimistic, but I just think our culture has become much more inclined to fix it and forget it. Whether it be treating conditions with drugs, plastic surgery, Botox, fillers or whatever. It's the easy way out. Aprile

free skin care · Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:32 am

I’m not so sure if facial exercises are so effective why the universities etc wouldn’t want to prove or even disprove them as a result.

Re bioidentical hormones, well I think that’s a much more extremely complex matter as your dealing with health and individual bodytypes etc but something like facial exercises – I don’t get what the big deal with doing any sort of study would be. Even if only for proving things like it can be good for bells palsey. It just would add credibility to these kind of discussions if there was really scientific proof that they worked. I know for one without facial exercises my face would be in such a state, so I’m always at a loss as to why there isn’t any official backings behind them.

free skin care · Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:06 pm

I found this article re wrinkling and bells palsy
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/31/health/la-he-face-exercise-wrinkles-20110131

free skin care · Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:52 am

The exercise approach has two major strikes against it, says Dr. Francis Papay, chairman of the Dermatology and Plastic Surgery Institute at the Cleveland Clinic. For one thing, he says, there have never been any studies showing that facial exercises have any benefits. But the bigger problem, to his mind, is that the claims made for facial exercises don't make sense.

You know that’s a point I was making, that there aren’t any proper studies and it does make me wonder if there is a good reason for their lack. I know Claudia’s reasons are above, but still come on if something is able to produce such results how comes there is no real proof behind it that’s been documented.

According to Papay, heavily used face muscles are a cause of wrinkles such as crow's-feet and frown lines, not a remedy. If someone has suffered a stroke that paralyzes half of the face, he says, the paralyzed side tends to look smoother and less wrinkly than the active side. Likewise, he explains, Botox injections work by paralyzing the muscles that cause wrinkles. "These exercises would have the opposite effect."

OK that one I can argue against. When they say heavily used facial muscles are a cause of wrinkles, they’re neglecting to tell you that when you make an expression your not using the full muscle fibres. So in essence your using only half a muscle. Whereas when your doing facial exercises, your using resistance to engage a great number of fibres than you would do say making facial expressions. I think its interesting that he’s chosen both Carolyn’s and Carole’s program as both are very different in my mind. Loulou of Ageless if you dare also wrote something on her website why she believed facial exercises and botox are similar that you could find if you searched her forum.

Dr. Patricia Farris, a clinical assistant professor of dermatology at Tulane University in New Orleans and a fellow of the American Academy of Dermatology, says that muscles in the other areas of the face will likely stay thin and fine no matter how much exercise they get. "They're hanging on the theory that bigger muscles will look better, but I don't think their way of doing it is going to work. Even if you could bulk up the muscles in your forehead," she adds, "you'd end up with a deep frown line."

This makes me laugh. Even if you could bulk up the forehead muscles you’d end up with a frown line – has she seen any of these exercises. How the hell did she work that out. I have to say doing Maggio’s did give me lines on my forehead, but doing Carolyn’s and others got rid of them.

Cleaves and Maggio insist their products work; Maggio says that doubters of facial exercises are "uneducated" and should "get a life." She acknowledges that facial exercises have never been studied scientifically, but she says that scientists haven't studied the effects of exercise on other muscles, either (a statement that likely would surprise a lot of exercise physiologists).

I’m a little surprised by Maggio’s “Get a Life” response here, but imagine its probably something she’s been asked thousands of times and is sick of that question. Not sure Maggio is qualified to say that the effects of other muscles haven’t been studied. She’s not a qualified physiologist last time I checked.

Papay says that the matter could be quickly settled with a randomized clinical trial conducted by an impartial scientist. Until then, he says, any claims that facial exercises can make a person look better or younger are nothing but marketing.

That’s precisely the point I was making above. How comes none of the so called experts have agreed to this.

free skin care · Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:10 am

I'm curious about the cost of such a study. Let's say you recruited 10-20 volunteers and followed them for 1 year. You measured both changes in skin quality (not sure how dermatologists measure this) and you use some sort of medical imaging device (DXA? fMRI?) to measure changes in muscle size and surrounding tissue. Maybe you also use fMRI to measure changes in blood flow during and after actually performing the exercise. How much would such a study cost? $50,000? More? Less? What if you just measured changes in skin, which I assume would be a much cheaper study? Anyone know?

And about funding for studies and what gets funded...these things are very complex, and it's not just because of a bias towards quick and/or money-making interventions (e.g., drugs, surgery, botox)--although that exists. For one, most people still haven't heard of facial exercise, and second, even among most who have heard of them, I'd be willing to wager that up to half or even much more are skeptical and haven't tried them.

free skin care · Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:24 am

Dickymoe,

Thanks for the interesting article. I'm not surprised by most of the article.

The two things though that were surprising to me were

(1) That Dr. Francis Papay, chairman of the Dermatology and Plastic Surgery Institute at the Cleveland Clinic, said that there's no reason to believe that enhancing blood flow to the face would encourage the buildup of collagen. Hmmm...I thought that this was exactly the claim made by plastic surgeons when they use various technologies to heat the skin, which they claim increases circulation and collagen build-up. Isn't this a double standard? Am I missing something?

(2) "Papay says that the matter could be quickly settled with a randomized clinical trial conducted by an impartial scientist." Well, isn't is frustrating that if it can be quickly settled--in either direction--that it hasn't? It's nice of him to say that, but then notice that neither he nor anyone else steps forward to volunteer to do such a study. I mean, if he at least thought facial exercises were harmful and it were easy enough to do such a study, you'd think he or someone would volunteer to do it and to put the matter to rest, no?

free skin care · Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:51 pm

Its not for want of trying I have to say. I was involved in several studies, all of which I had to write proposals for, and they all started out great (but you know there is such a complex set of procedures involved with most organisations and universities). 10-20 volunteers wasn't considered enough, in fact with the first study I did it was proposed to have 100 mixed people. Only thing I could actually have any control over was the age range (which for the first I chose 40-50 as a framework to begin with) and that they were all in good health. I have to say hand on heart it was exciting in the beginning, to meet the people and hear their details, but the most frustrating thing was that for a variety of reasons the studies always seemed to get terminated after 3-6 months of their beginning, and usually even in those 3-6 months you could see the start of noticeable positive changes and people were happy with them.

For my part I made absolutely no money on it, and I used to spend a great deal of time training these people and also doing one to one sessions wiht the group and and when the news would come through that either the funds were being withdrawn because they were necessary for another study, or that a new project had come up - or even that funds simply weren't available - it was so heart breaking for me.

I did it with 4 different organisations, and all would start out with such good intentions and things just fell through that I can fully understand why the other trainers and facial exercise program developers haven't got the studies done. Its hard work and a great deal of time, effort and energy goes into the work and often with little pay. So its definitely hard work. Its most certainly not been through want of trying, and its not an idea I'm completely closed to but for now, I know that when I'm next approached about a study I am going to be looking for similar signs to ensure history doesn't repeat itself.

free skin care · Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:31 pm

I read this article by Chris Woolston and was so upset, I wrote a very long letter to the editor and even emailed Woolston myself. He claims he writes his stories from a scientific approach, but I feel there is reason to believe he sides with mainstream medicine. Not to mention, mainstream medicine places a lot of advertising in his newspaper. I am posting my very long letter to the editor. ~ Aprile

Letter to the Editor ~
I recently read with great disappointment Chris Woolston’s article about facial exercise entitled, “Facial exercises to reduce wrinkles? Unfortunately, much like he has in the past, Woolston presents his panel of “medical experts” in a much better light than facial exercise gurus, Carole Maggio (Facercise) and Carolyn Cleaves (Carolyn’s Facial Fitness). What a shame he couldn’t have (at the very least) interviewed some of their happy clients to present a more fair and balanced story. He might be enlightened and surprised to find out how out how many women are actually enjoying the many benefits of facial exercise. In fact, many have chosen facial exercise as an alternative to Botox, fillers, cosmetic surgery and other dangerous procedures. Although he did mention that both Dr. Oz and Jack LaLanne were facial exercise proponents, he didn’t bother to quote either of them. Nor did he bother to mention that Jack LaLanne also had his own facial exercise program, Face-A-Tonics. Perhaps that’s why he looked so good up until his recent death at the ripe old age of 96?

Further, Woolston presented Maggio and Cleaves comments in a way that sounded more like marketing tactics rather than truth. The way he spinned some of Maggio’s comments made her appear uneducated about past studies involving the benefits of exercise (for the body.) Nothing could be further from the truth. I am certain she conveyed the story to him about Jack LaLanne’s early frustrations with the medical community when he tried to introduce body building, and how at the time, there were no studies on the benefits of exercise. Jack fought a tough battle with the medical community when they tried to run him out of business saying that exercise was harmful to your health. I know this story all too well because I am a client of Carole’s and have heard her retell Jack’s story many times. Not surprisingly, Woolston’s medical expert, Dr. Papay states that heavily used face muscles are a cause of wrinkles such as crow's-feet and frown lines, not a remedy. He adds, “If someone has suffered a stroke that paralyzes half of the face, the paralyzed side tends to look smoother and less wrinkly than the active side. Likewise, he explains, Botox injections work by paralyzing the muscles that cause wrinkles. "These exercises would have the opposite effect." Oh really? Ask any Bell’s Palsy patient what they’d rather have, a smooth half paralyzed face that sags and lacks all expression or muscles that work. I happen to know a Bell’s patient, who told me that it was Carole Maggio and her Facercise program that helped him rehabilitate his face. In fact, he was overjoyed when he saw crinkles appear at the corners of his eyes again, because that meant his muscles were working and that he could squint! Woolston also fails to list the possible side effects of a serious drug like Botox. Check the Botox site for full disclosure. But, for the record, some potential side effects include: problems swallowing, speaking, breathing, double vision, loss of vision, loss of strength and muscle weakness all over the body, loss of bladder control and on and on. It concludes with the following statement, “Therefore, the long-term effects from using this substance are not really well known or documented.” Need I mention, surgical procedures, lasers, and fillers all come with their own inherent risks.

This article reads very similar to another Woolston wrote last spring entitled, “Bioidentical Hormones for menopausal symptoms” where he presented both sides of the hormone debate. In the article, he also has two doctors representing the opinions of mainstream medicine and presents them in a similar way. Woolston’s medical experts, Drs. Santoro and Steunkel tried to scare women by making comments like the remark by Dr. Santoro, "there is no proof that bioidentical hormones are any safer or more effective than traditional treatments. "All of the evidence that we have suggests that all of these hormones should be painted with the same brush." Same brush? As a woman, it’s pretty insulting to read such comments. Equillin (horse estrogen) doesn’t belong in a woman’s body any more than drugs like heroin and cocaine. But, one doctor took exception to his article and set the record straight. In one of his online rebuttals, Dr. Jeffrey Dach so aptly points out, “Woolston also omits to tell his readers that his two hormone experts, Steunkel and Santoro are both on the payroll of Wyeth and other drug companies that make synthetic chemically altered "Monster'" hormones. These financial ties are publicly disclosed.” So it infuriated me when Woolston once again sided with medical experts who stand to lose a lot of money if people choose facial exercise over Botox, fillers, surgery and the like.
In closing, I would like to say that in the midst of one of the worst economies in a very long time, Mr. Woolston did both women and men a huge disservice. By not including Dr. Oz and Jack LaLanne’s comments about the benefits of facial exercise and not even offering testimonials of facial exercise users, he left nothing but doubt in the mind of his readers. It’s almost as if we are stuck in a time warp when exercising the body was deemed unsafe by the medical community. Why should the face be any different than the body? Muscles are muscles, plain and simple. Woolston’s article is one-sided at best and guides to the reader to believe their only hope is to fork out some serious cash to a dermatologist, surgeon or dare I suggest some medi spa where an unlicensed person injects Botox. The bottom line ~ It was Woolston’s intention all along to present the story this way. After all, it’s all about money, money that is for “Big Pharma”. Shame on you Chris Woolston!

free skin care · Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:39 pm

April,

Good for you!

I can tell you we've worked with many bells palsey patients. Stroke victims, and people that have nerve damage.

I don't want to post a "commercial" here... but if you go to youtube, and look up facialbuilding, search for one quick clip of a guy (about 30 seconds) who used FE with his bells palsey...

free skin care · Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:13 am

Hi Claudia,

I'm sure you have!! That was just one of my reasons for writing the letter. I've seen testimonials on Carole's site too about using facial exercise to treat everything from TMJ to Bell's Palsy and Acoustic Neuroma. I am certain he could have found at least one expert who agreed. Not to mention his inclusion of Dr. Papay's comments about Botox freezing muscles infuriated me given the fact he chose to leave out the possible side effects of using a drug like that (which are many). That part reminded me of Dr. Schultz's video about facial exercise being the cause of facial wrinkling. Papay should have known the main cause of facial wrinkling is overexposure to the sun's UV rays. Anyway to say the article was disappointing is an understatement. I can truly understand how frustrating it must have been for Sean to be involved with various studies, seeing clients pleased with their results, only to have funding pulled. Aprile

free skin care · Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:32 am

There is no money to be made in a cure, keeping them coming back for more treatments keeps the money flowing! That's why these doctors are so shady, god forbid if doing facial exercises keeps you from going under the knife!

free skin care · Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:23 am

The thing is... There are plenty of excellent doctors out there. AND if you're going to opt for surgury, or injections, make sure you get someone very skilled.

Honestly, I would question a doctor that immediately discounts anything that can't or isn't done in his/her office. It would make me think that is one of their ways of making what they do seem better.

You know, I expect a certain amount from my doctors. Not having issues if I use acupunture, or a PT, instead of drugs for back pain, or headaches. ESPECIALLY when the drugs aren't working and everything else is.

I know that we've talked with plenty of surgeons and derms that are happy to have their clients train their face. EVEN if they are using some of their medical procedures. The only thing one should use caution with: Exercises too soon after surgury. Or Exercises and manipulation after injections. You don't want to shift those fluids to areas you DON'T want them. And I know I'm not experienced in that area to tell you how your injections might be effected.

free skin care · Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:47 am

Hi Claudia,

While I'm certain there are many very qualified surgeons and dermatologists who serve a purpose for those who want to go that route, there is still risk involved. Not only with fillers migrating to other areas of the face, but surgery is risky due to other factors like anesthesia and Botox has tons of risks. That is why its too bad Woolston didn't include those risks. That would have made the article appear more fair and balanced. Also, if as you say you know some docs who would say positive things about facial exercise, then why couldn't he find at least one proponent? Anyway, I don't know about you, but the thought of fillers migrating to other areas of the face creeps me out. There is definitely the possibility of undesirable side effects with all of those treatments, some could even be detrimental to overall health. That is why the omission of those truths made the article appear very one-sided, even though he claims he presents the article from a scientific viewpoint. ~ Aprile

free skin care · Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:06 pm

Well I have moved on to a new program!
I started Carolyn's program and so far so good.
I like it so far, no pinching pulling or squeezing!

free skin care · Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:30 pm

dickymoe wrote:

Well I have moved on to a new program!
I started Carolyn's program and so far so good.
I like it so far, no pinching pulling or squeezing!

That's great! How long have you been using it?

free skin care · Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:57 am

hi
this is my second week, I do the routine[ it does all the muscles of the face and neck there is 1 move that involves the scalp] 5xs a week then I take weekends off. after 3 months you see where you are.

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