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Tue May 22, 2012 5:37 pm  |
| CookieD wrote: |
| Keliu wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| But dermatologists & medi-spas don't do rolling (no $ in that) so we are planning our own experiment. Split face for rolling would be challenging for the subjects. |
Many skin-clinics offer Dermarolling - it's one of the treatments that is really gaining in popularity. Many would argue that if you want a really effective roll it should be done under the care of a medical person and not done at home. As for there being no money in it - clinics are charging around $300.00 for a treatment - that sounds like pretty good money to me considering that the equipment involved costs around $100 compared to a laser which costs hundreds of thousands. |
There are at least 2 Doctors in Newport Beach offering this service that I know of. One is Anne McNeill MD she charges 450 to 800 for the face and Walton Montegut MD. I am sure there are a lot more if you look around the Internet. |
Thanks. |
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Tue May 22, 2012 7:55 pm |
My mom had been using both products since past Mother's Day, so it is probably too early to expect any changes.
She applies it to dry skin, and has to double both products, since the skin absorbs it way too fast. Her skin is very very dry.
Should she apply it to wet skin? What would be the recommendation for her?
TIA |
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Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Tue May 22, 2012 8:09 pm |
| sigma wrote: |
My mom had been using both products since past Mother's Day, so it is probably too early to expect any changes.
She applies it to dry skin, and has to double both products, since the skin absorbs it way too fast. Her skin is very very dry.
Should she apply it to wet skin? What would be the recommendation for her?
TIA |
Yes, she can wash and leave her face wet, then apply the serum. Wait a minute to let it sink in, then use as much accelerator as needed to fully moisturize the skin. The serum is very concentrated, so the additional actives are not needed. And while it is moisturizing, it is not as much so as the accelerator. If she has any questions, let her know she can call our customer relations people and they can walk her through it. |
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Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Tue May 22, 2012 8:12 pm |
Dr. J,
thank you so much.
I will pass the message and post updates as appropriate. |
_________________
Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Wed May 23, 2012 3:01 pm |
I've been using the samples for the last 3 days instead of my usual morning skincare routine, and I have a suspicion that either the Serum or the Accelerator broke me out. I haven't had breakouts since last year when I gave up dairy products.
I hope my skin goes back to normal after I finish the samples. |
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Wed May 23, 2012 9:24 pm |
| Quote: |
| THAT is so very COOL. Very Happy Love those BM-MSC's. |
Makes two of us then. 
Looks like so far 2 people have had break outs from the product. However, that is not exactly uncommon when switching/ changing products / regime either.
1 Chicken Skin eruption. {no feathers}
From 1-5 where 5 is blindingly amazing [ lower bleph in a bottle ]. It went from 4.0 to 4.5 for rate of recovery post roll. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Wed May 23, 2012 10:33 pm |
| Might be worth Cellese suggesting the product samples are sampled separately? |
_________________
Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Thu May 24, 2012 5:48 am |
| Does anyone think that perhaps it's a certain ingredient that is causing the break-outs? |
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Thu May 24, 2012 7:57 am |
| leeleedeedee wrote: |
| Does anyone think that perhaps it's a certain ingredient that is causing the break-outs? |
Good question leeleedeedee.
Most skin care professionals adhere to the notion that breaks outs right after starting a product have little to do with the product, and more to do with the antecedent conditions. Many also agree that break out might actually be a good thing. This is counterintuitive, I know. Let’s briefly look at the pathogenesis of a break out. There are four primary factors:
1. elevated sebum production
2. excess dead keratinocytes, sticky with sebum, collect inside pores
3. P. acnes, the bacterium, finds this a favorable place to start a colony
4. The pore becomes clogged, and a papule or pustule erupts.
Along with this, inflammatory cytokines are released. This leads to redness and pus. The inflammation also (in older skin) takes time to fade and meanwhile stimulates more sebum production as a stress response. Hormonal fluctuations can play a big part as well. A cycle begins.
Given the timing of these factors, starting a product and seeing something erupt the first few days does not mean the product caused it. The conditions were already set. It may have accelerated its appearance (e.g. by increasing skin cell production in the basal layer, therefore more superficial ones are suddenly being shed). AnteAge works to regenerate new skin. It’s the old, dead, unshed skin cells on the surface e that are the real problem.
AnteAGE has ingredients which should actually help. The serum is rich in anti-inflammatory cytokines, so the cycle should be impeded. Reducing inflammation is regarded as one key in treating acne conditions. Retinoids (accelerator) decrease sebum production, and unclog pores. Other ingredients in there are also considered helpful. The accelerator also contains isoflavones which can mimic hormone effects in the skin. This could contribute if it is a mainly hormonal type of break out.
It would be hard for me to convince anyone that the appearance of acne is a good thing, but nonetheless many professionals make this argument, for the reasons noted. My usual advice is to continue to use the serum (hold the accelerator for a few days) while attending to the other things (unclogging pores, eliminating bacteria). Start the accelerator back when all is calm again, which shouldn’t take long. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu May 24, 2012 11:52 am |
| leeleedeedee wrote: |
| Does anyone think that perhaps it's a certain ingredient that is causing the break-outs? |
My guess is the PPG-3 Benzyl Myristate (which is high on the ingredient list in both products) might be the culprit.
I have only ever used it in hair products, because it is a shine enhancer, light reflector and good emollient, but the best thing about it is that it stays put on whatever surface you apply it to (ie; hair + lip products especially.)... (acts like a silicone in fact.)
According to this 28 pg paper on this ingredient, < than 10% of the amount applied topically will penetrate the skin cells. See pages 14 to 16.
Maybe it's preventing the other key ingredients from penetrating right along with it... 
http://www.nicnas.gov.au/publications/car/new/std/stdfullr/std1000fr/std1217fr.pdf |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Thu May 24, 2012 12:51 pm |
Hi Dr J,
I received my samples in one week - shipping to Canada. There was only enough serum to use on my face one time. I went ahead and purchased a full size serum and picked the cheap shipping option. It took 20 days to get here and now the post office is holding it ransom for an extra $42! I will only be using the serum after derma rolling as this product (with the added fees and duties that the post office charged) is just too expensive for me. My question is - do you think that I will see any benefit from the serum using it in this manner? I was thinking of using it for one week post roll. Thanks, Doodles |
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59 years old. Very oily and acne prone. Staples: Retin-A. |
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Thu May 24, 2012 1:08 pm |
The product itself is already insanely expensive + taxes + shipping and it adds up to a fat sum of money. DrJ, does the product really have to be so expensive?
| doodles wrote: |
Hi Dr J,
I received my samples in one week - shipping to Canada. There was only enough serum to use on my face one time. I went ahead and purchased a full size serum and picked the cheap shipping option. It took 20 days to get here and now the post office is holding it ransom for an extra $42! I will only be using the serum after derma rolling as this product (with the added fees and duties that the post office charged) is just too expensive for me. My question is - do you think that I will see any benefit from the serum using it in this manner? I was thinking of using it for one week post roll. Thanks, Doodles |
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Thu May 24, 2012 1:14 pm |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| leeleedeedee wrote: |
| Does anyone think that perhaps it's a certain ingredient that is causing the break-outs? |
My guess is the PPG-3 Benzyl Myristate (which is high on the ingredient list in both products) might be the culprit.
I have only ever used it in hair products, because it is a shine enhancer, light reflector and good emollient, but the best thing about it is that it stays put on whatever surface you apply it to (ie; hair + lip products especially.)... (acts like a silicone in fact.)
According to this 28 pg paper on this ingredient, < than 10% of the amount applied topically will penetrate the skin cells. See pages 14 to 16.
Maybe it's preventing the other key ingredients from penetrating right along with it...
http://www.nicnas.gov.au/publications/car/new/std/stdfullr/std1000fr/std1217fr.pdf |
On the contrary, our formulating chemist assures us that PPG 3 Benzyl Ether Myristate is an emollient that is widely used in cosmetic chemistry, and is considered 100% safe. It is not a silicone, but is used instead of silicones for sensory improvement, and is widely used in sunscreen products (for various reasons, including SPF enhancement), and serums (where it does not prevent other ingredients from absorbing, but instead provides a wetting reservoir which enhances penetration by preventing drying).
P.S. this guy is no slouch - he is a very well known cosmetic chemist with 30 years experience, past president of the international national & association, etc. A chemist's chemist. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu May 24, 2012 1:21 pm |
| doodles wrote: |
Hi Dr J,
I received my samples in one week - shipping to Canada. There was only enough serum to use on my face one time. I went ahead and purchased a full size serum and picked the cheap shipping option. It took 20 days to get here and now the post office is holding it ransom for an extra $42! I will only be using the serum after derma rolling as this product (with the added fees and duties that the post office charged) is just too expensive for me. My question is - do you think that I will see any benefit from the serum using it in this manner? I was thinking of using it for one week post roll. Thanks, Doodles |
Doodles, sorry about that. We have no control over that whole customs thing. Just using post-roll will help a bit, but would like to see you get full benefit. We have some ideas in mind to make if more affordable for our Canadian customers. Rockey will send you an e-mail with details. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu May 24, 2012 1:26 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| doodles wrote: |
Hi Dr J,
I received my samples in one week - shipping to Canada. There was only enough serum to use on my face one time. I went ahead and purchased a full size serum and picked the cheap shipping option. It took 20 days to get here and now the post office is holding it ransom for an extra $42! I will only be using the serum after derma rolling as this product (with the added fees and duties that the post office charged) is just too expensive for me. My question is - do you think that I will see any benefit from the serum using it in this manner? I was thinking of using it for one week post roll. Thanks, Doodles |
Doodles, sorry about that. We have no control over that whole customs thing. Just using post-roll will help a bit, but would like to see you get full benefit. We have some ideas in mind to make if more affordable for our Canadian customers. Rockey will send you an e-mail with details. |
Thanks Dr J, nice to know you're listening! |
_________________
59 years old. Very oily and acne prone. Staples: Retin-A. |
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Thu May 24, 2012 1:34 pm |
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
The product itself is already insanely expensive + taxes + shipping and it adds up to a fat sum of money. DrJ, does the product really have to be so expensive?
| doodles wrote: |
Hi Dr J,
I received my samples in one week - shipping to Canada. There was only enough serum to use on my face one time. I went ahead and purchased a full size serum and picked the cheap shipping option. It took 20 days to get here and now the post office is holding it ransom for an extra $42! I will only be using the serum after derma rolling as this product (with the added fees and duties that the post office charged) is just too expensive for me. My question is - do you think that I will see any benefit from the serum using it in this manner? I was thinking of using it for one week post roll. Thanks, Doodles |
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Good question. It's not your typical product where the ingredients cost just a few dollars and the rest is all marketing. It's expensive to run a complete cell biology laboratory. But we strongly desire to get it into the hands of as many people as possible. We have no control over taxes, customs, or shipping costs. We have started up a loyalty program that gives a significant break to repeat users. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu May 24, 2012 2:44 pm |
| doodles.....wow, that is some hefty price tag!! I live in Canada too, but I've been in a hectic phase with my work and haven't had a chance to order yet. Why is the post office charging such an exorbitant price?? It makes it very difficult for we Canadians to purchase from the U.S. I'm really bummed about this. |
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Thu May 24, 2012 3:00 pm |
| I guess this means picking the cheaper shipping option doesn't mean you escape customs guy, just means it'll take that much longer to receive the products. Drat! |
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Thu May 24, 2012 3:01 pm |
| leeleedeedee wrote: |
| doodles.....wow, that is some hefty price tag!! I live in Canada too, but I've been in a hectic phase with my work and haven't had a chance to order yet. Why is the post office charging such an exorbitant price?? It makes it very difficult for we Canadians to purchase from the U.S. I'm really bummed about this. |
Because they can and then there's pst and gst which is about 14% in these parts as well. |
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Thu May 24, 2012 3:29 pm |
| marina wrote: |
| leeleedeedee wrote: |
| doodles.....wow, that is some hefty price tag!! I live in Canada too, but I've been in a hectic phase with my work and haven't had a chance to order yet. Why is the post office charging such an exorbitant price?? It makes it very difficult for we Canadians to purchase from the U.S. I'm really bummed about this. |
Because they can and then there's pst and gst which is about 14% in these parts as well. |
OK, now I'm mad. Confiscatory taxes, and the post office goes on strike whenever there is a Stanley Cup final. DrJ has a soft spot for fellow Canucks. PM me for a purchase program where we will (in essence) pay those nanny state levies (taxes). |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu May 24, 2012 3:45 pm |
Well, thank you Dr.J. That is very kind of you and much appreciated  |
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Thu May 24, 2012 4:07 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| marina wrote: |
| leeleedeedee wrote: |
| doodles.....wow, that is some hefty price tag!! I live in Canada too, but I've been in a hectic phase with my work and haven't had a chance to order yet. Why is the post office charging such an exorbitant price?? It makes it very difficult for we Canadians to purchase from the U.S. I'm really bummed about this. |
Because they can and then there's pst and gst which is about 14% in these parts as well. |
OK, now I'm mad. Confiscatory taxes, and the post office goes on strike whenever there is a Stanley Cup final. DrJ has a soft spot for fellow Canucks. PM me for a purchase program where we will (in essence) pay those nanny state levies (taxes). |
Didn't you just show your hand here doc? I mean if you can take that kind of hit on the price plus offer a Loyalty Discount to your Canadian customers, that says you are selling at a massive markup to me!
What's Up Doc? |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Thu May 24, 2012 4:37 pm |
Bethany- I switched from Purpose which is SUPPOSED to be gentle (Heck, the bottle says Gentle Cleansing Wash and I don't use Retin A) to EL Soft Clean.{What a difference)
I can only imagine the issue you had with Purpose along with Retin A.
To others: As far as overkill; a mystery wrapped in an enigma, I don't get it. 
Night time:
Lifeline SERUM
Anteage ACCELERATOR
(a teeny bit of 'matte' ing moisturizer over it)
Morning:
nada, zippo, nothing Treatment
What am I doing incorrectly or inscrutable-ly? (a new adverb?)
I'm experiencing positive results.
My bad.
am -ing my skin |
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Thu May 24, 2012 4:40 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
OK, now I'm mad. Confiscatory taxes, and the post office goes on strike whenever there is a Stanley Cup final. DrJ has a soft spot for fellow Canucks. PM me for a purchase program where we will (in essence) pay hose nanny state levies (taxes). |
Didn't you just show your hand here doc? I mean if you can take that kind of hit on the price plus offer a Loyalty Discount to your Canadian customers, that says you are selling at a massive markup to me!
What's Up Doc? |
Unless there is a way for the company to write those taxes off... |
_________________
Female, born 1985. HW Engineer, Fitness nut. Embarking on the war against the signs of aging... |
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Thu May 24, 2012 4:44 pm |
| Kath91 wrote: |
To others: As far as overkill; a mystery wrapped in an enigma, I don't get it.
Night time:
Lifeline SERUM
Anteage ACCELERATOR
(a teeny bit of 'matte' ing moisturizer over it)
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So you are not using the AnteAGE Serum with the Accelerator - you are using the Lifeline Serum. Why have you chosen not to use the total AnteAGE package which have been formulated to work in tandem? |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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