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Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:53 pm  |
Hi all, I hope I am not opening up an old can of worms here but it seems there was a lot of discussion about copper peptides about a year ago and I'd love to know if anyone is still continuously using them and seeing results?
While reading old threads I also came across a disagreement as to whether retinol thins or thickens skin and it was suggested that it should be used with copper peptides. I am VERY concerned now!! I love my c serum and 1% retinol from PSF and I do the pumpkin AHA/BHA mask once a week. Am I just tearing down my skin without rebuilding it? My goal is thicker, firmer skin.
Please jump in with reassurance or advice, I am so worried  |
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Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:34 pm |
Retinol does not thin the skin. Retinol/retinoid help exfoliate the top layer of dead skin while help rebuild collagen which thicken the skin.
So people get the wrong idea because skin may peel from retinol. The rebuild and thickening is from the underlying layers.
Continue to use the products that work for you. Just don't forget to use a great sunscreen everyday. |
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~~ super-sensitive, dry, dermatitis prone, rosacea/northern calif ~~ |
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Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:31 pm |
I had this explained to me once...retinol thins the strateum cornum (top layer, mostly made of dead cells), but thickens the dermis.
Copper peptides are beneficial to use with retinol products because they help soothe irritation and help repair damage to skin cells (which is not retinoid's main action). The two products compliment eachother and MANY people use them together successfully for long periods of time. I've been doing it for about 7 months, and am having no problems. |
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Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:57 pm |
Thank you so much, ladies, for explaining how the retinol can do both! Whew - what a relief 
I am intrigued by the copper peptides and saw that Skin Biology sells creams containing both CPs and retinol. I wonder if these would be helpful for keeping cell-u-lite "out-of-site"?  |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:30 am |
I've been using both for about 2 years now. My
skin is looking much better (but I do use many other products). I have read quite a few MEDLINE articles on Retinols and glycolic acids. Both are generally skin thickening even though they peel the top skin layer. There are several articles on both that say skin thinning can occur this got media attention about 1-2 years ago. Subsequent studies, however, showed that skin thinning only occurs when the products are abused (used too often at too high strengths and that depends on skin type). If you get ulcers that take days to heal you're overdoing it otherwise go ahead. In addition to the copper peptides for healing I use PSF O2 serum. It is great for healing red spots, pimples or other irritations. |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:48 am |
I discontinued use of copper peptides after a long period of use with very, very minimal results.
Retinol, however, is a highly effective product, especially in combination with other key products. |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:20 am |
| P.S. I should say that I use the copper peptides for healing after a glycolic peel and for removing skin tags and moles/bumps. I do not know whether it does anything for wrinkles but It removed one skin tag and one facial mole completely after 2 applications of Super Cop 2X per day. |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:23 pm |
| PNW, the type of retinol in the Skin Biology products is not the same...it's retinol palmitate, which acts more like a penetration enhancer and humectant. Retinol in products like Green Cream act like a milder version of Retin-A. So it's apples and oranges. If you want to get the benefit of both retinol and copper peptides, you'll have to buy a second product with either retinol (like Green Cream) or retinalhydrate (sp?), like Avene Ystheal or Vivant Exfol-A. |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:33 pm |
sharky, I am curious about trying a glycolic peel. Scared to death, but still curious!! When do you apply the copper peptides and PSF O2 serum, right away after the glycolic peel? Also do you apply copper peptides right over the retinol at night or the other way around? I've been using Green Cream and wanting to enhance the effects of healing. Thanks for the advice!! Anyone else chime in also!  |
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26, fair, dry skin, redhead |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:52 pm |
OMG PocoLoco, I didn't know that about the SkinBiology products and I almost bought some -I thought it was the real deal, retinol. Thanks for the heads up!
Laurabeth, I remember we were discussing the green creams and peeley's a while back. Are you already using a copper peptide? If the green creams don't cost too much, I may get some and apply this and cp's to my legs and arms too.
Otherwise I noticed Roc sells a retinol body modelling lotion, but have no idea what the retinol% is so I don't know if it will be effective. I've been trying to investigate this one...
What are everyone's favorite CP's? |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:25 pm |
| I use and enjoy the Skin Biology copper peptides...I have both CP Serum and Super CP Serum. The creams make me break out cuz they have comedogenic ingredients, so I stick to the serums. The products are good though, potent and very well priced. |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:52 pm |
 skinbiology cp? maybe I'll add that to my skin remodeling adventure.
I've been reading old posts on cps, retinol, guapagirls unfortunate mishap with glycolic acid peels, eek!
So many people seem to have been using all that stuff years ago, I wonder what the effects are now????
I also saw the emu bird Mabsy posted! hilarious!! 'Sigh' I have been laughing my butt off.
So anyway, I'd say, pnw-- the green cream is doing great! No more major peelies! Just a few flakes here and there. My blackheads/pores are diminishing on my nose and my chin is still purging. Yep so lots of fun so far....ha ha. I would stick with psf retinol if that is working for you. I can't remember the price on green cream - it's on Linda Sy's website. But you bring up a great point, what to use on the body??? I've been using scrubs made with sugar and oil, also homemade tendskin on that bikini area!! Is there a great glycolic/salicylic product for cleansing and moisturizing? Most I have seen contain some degree of alcohol which would only further dry me out! |
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26, fair, dry skin, redhead |
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:14 pm |
laurabeth,
There are some before/after pictures on http://dianayvonne.com/category/16c/ for long term cp use. Very impressive 
However people do go through the "bad" stage before seeing major improvements.
I personally love diana yvonne's site, great customer service and very reasonable s/h. |
_________________
~~ super-sensitive, dry, dermatitis prone, rosacea/northern calif ~~ |
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Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:00 am |
| Quote: |
| Is there a great glycolic/salicylic product for cleansing and moisturizing? |
I would recommend Skin Biology's Exfol serum, which is 2% salicylic acid in aloe vera base. It's totally non irritating. You put it on after cleansing and leave on for 30 minutes prior to putting on any other active. I love this stuff as it's so gentle yet effective at exfoliating the pores. Also gives you a glow.
For cleansing, you want to use a ph balanced, non-detergent cleanser such as Wheat germ oil cleanser. Both products available atwww.dianayvonne.com (Exfol also available atwww.Skinbiology.com). |
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Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:31 pm |
dianayvonee or skin biology? Hmmmm... So mtview and pocoloco what exactly have cps done for you long term? Did you have wrinkles, acne, scars?
sharky removed skin tags and a mole-- impressive. I've read others have done the same! I always thought that surgical excision was the only way to do that. cps sound pretty cool 
Those before and after pics are pretty impressive.
Would you put CP over the retinol at night? Layering all these products can be so confusing!
I am using:
1-glycolic toner 10%
2-retinol
3-moisturizer
Can I use the cp on nights I don't use retinol?
In the morning I use PSF C serum (  Love it!) under my sunscreen- so I know that the cp would have to be used only at night to not interact with the vit c.
Thanks for your advice!!
pnw- are you adding a cp yet? |
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26, fair, dry skin, redhead |
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Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:08 pm |
Hi there,
Yes, you would definitely layer your CP serum over the retinol at night, after giving the retinol about 40 minutes to "do its thing."
CP serum is great to use with retinol because it reduces irritation and helps repair damage to the skin barrier caused by retinol products.
As far as what it's done for me, all I know is that my skin looks much healthier and "glowy" after 7 months of using CP serum in addition to Vit C serum in the a.m., and retinol 3-5 times per week. I also use emu oil and I think it's the combination of all of these things that has improved my skin tone so much. I still have work to do on my undereye area... |
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Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:17 pm |
laurabeth,
I have been debating between adding a cp or the O2 serum to my current routine. PSF won out by sending me a sample. I'll decide if I need the cp after I give the O2 a testdrive. I'd still like to hear more from others here about the results of copper peps.
My other interest lately has been to find an inexpensive retinol body product. It seems more companies are changing the words "retinyl palmitate" to "retinol palmitate" or "retinol-A" which has had me confused in my search as to whether I am looking at the truly pure retinol ingredient or just Vitamin A. |
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Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:47 pm |
I'm just as confused as you are there pnw . Some of that ingredient lingo is a puzzle to figure out. Good luck with the O2 serum, let us know how it works for you with the retinol!!
pocoloco-- Thanks for telling me how to apply, I'll do that I haven't decided yet which to order, but appears like they are pretty much the same.
Sounds like this regimen works for you too, my skin is also looking better after adding retinol and vit c. I hope the cp can speed up the recovery of my skin by bringing all that damage to the surface and letting it shed. It all just takes work and time. |
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26, fair, dry skin, redhead |
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Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:30 pm |
Oooooh, laurabeth, I just found something interesting that is enough to put me off of taking the risk with cp's
There is a lot of talk about these on the Smart Skin Care forum and some people mention getting sagging.
Here's how they work:
| Quote: |
| About safety - overall, copper stimulates skin remodelling occurring in 2nd phase of wound healing when scar tissue is replaced by more normal collagen. This involves both stimulation of destruction of scar collagen and synthesis of more normal collagen. For most people, the net result is smoother skin. However, there are rare cases when individual reacton to copper is such that collagen degradation predominates, which may lead skin deterioration rather than improvement. This is rare but can happen. Therefore, if one considers trying copper peptides, it is best to test on one's arm for at least a couple of weeks before trying it on the face. |
And the thread:
http://www.smartskincare.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=557
This goes right back to my original question. I do not want to be breaking my skin down and not being able to rebuild it.
I think it is awesome that many people benefit from copper peps, but I don't have alot of give to play with when it comes to sagging so I won't be trying these afterall. |
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Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:44 pm |
Hi there...
I wouldn't get too worried about this (the post about CP's causing damage--even in rare cases). It is not possible for CP's to cause any permanent damage. The only possibility is that the process of break-down of damaged proteins can get ahead of the process of removal of damaged proteins. That is a bit of a balancing act. If the break-down gets ahead of the removal, that's when you can get saggy and generally look like crap. It is NOT permanent. It will correct itself if you stop the CP's for a while, increase the use of exfoliation products, just let time go by, or do some combination of all three. |
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Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:30 pm |
Hello, I am also interested with CPs nowadays... 
been thinking of adding it to my routine. What CPs does EDS offer? Is it only Kinerase? |
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31, Combination normal-dry skin, loves CSRx, PSF, A'kin, Decleor, ACV, Jojoba oil! |
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Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:54 pm |
| I use about 35% glycolic (from Personal Formulator diluted with green tea). I first put on the PSF O2 serum. I then put on the glycolic and wait 3-10 minutes depending on the part of my face. I never leave it on if it's really stinging. I then use ethanol (vodka) to neutralize and then water. I put on more PSf O2 serum and then copper peptide on top. This works very well for me but you have to work up to this glycolic strength. Do not do this any more than onec or twice a week and if you get red patches wait longer and cut the glycolic acid strength and use something to neutralize it (I use triethanol amine and keep a pH of about 2-2.5) this is strong you need to find the level your skin is OK with. pH and % both matter. You should start at no higher than 15% at a pH of 2.5. |
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Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:37 pm |
| PS I've said this before but when some news articles came out 1-2 years ago about skin thinning WRT glycolic acid and retinoids I went to MEDLINE and read up on it. The Medical consensus is that it really is NOT a problem unless you are really overdoing it (and you'd know it). |
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Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:44 pm |
Hey, Sharky-buddy. Thought I'd ask about the dilution ratio you're using w/the glycolic peel - just curious. I like your added factor of PSF O2 prior, great idea. I used it after my last fruit acid 35% and experienced very little flakiness. It made me a believer, let me tell you despite the $$$.
I am a very happy CP user though have only been using them about 2 months but I've worked up slowly so have not had any uglies or bad reactions. It is a balancing act of CP vs. exfoliation to avoid any of the dreaded uggs. I know that it is possible because when I first started, I dimly tried applying CP serum straight to my neck. It broke out immediately in red bumps! So, I know it's potent stuff and takes awhile for skin to acclimate.
I've been working on scar/moles with TCA 20% and Super Cop 2x VERY effectively so believe the combination of CPs and acids is essential. |
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