C-ester, is it Magnesium ascorbyl palmitate, and does it ..
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:30 pm

I'm getting more and more confused.

I can't use L-ascorbic acid too well I've just found out, it's too irritating.

I want a product that builds collagen effectively that doesn't irritate so much.

I don't want to use EGF (or the TNS product) and I'm hesitant about using retinaldehyde, but I may start using Avene's Ystheal anyway.

Is there a serum or gel (no lotions, please) that contains this patented C-Ester (not to be confused with ester-C) that has been proven to build collagen? I read that C-ester does, but have any of you any recommendations of something that does really work with this ingredient in it?

I don't understand why it was patented, and what is the difference between it and magnesium ascorbyl palmitate. And, does magnesium ascorbyl palmitate increase collagen or does only C-ester increase it?

I know it's been proven that L-ascorbic acid increases collagen for sure (read some of the SKinceuticals paper finally).

confused, really confused. thanks.

Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:46 pm

It's Ester-C that's patented, right?

(pulling out my hair now)

Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:06 pm

Ok, here's a link I just read on "Ester-C" which is also patented, and the article says it's a "new" liquid topical VIt. C with a new patent or applied for a new patent, but don't know the date of this article. How new?

Says it does build collagen, however, the Skinceuticals paper said that the human body doesn't "convert" vit. C except L-ascorbic acid. What does this mean?

How does one buy products with this "Ester-C", this "NEW" Ester-C topical liquid stuff, in it? How are you supposed to know if the ingredient in a product that's called ester-C is this newly patented ingredient?

Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:27 pm

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:y4ZrnAoo7icJ:www.sunrise

Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:29 pm

one more time, see is this link works, LOL,

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:y4ZrnAoo7icJ:www.sunrisewd.com/products/EsterC.htm+ester-c+stable+non-acidic&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=6

free skin care · Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:22 pm

Hi ocean - I don't know if this thread will be interesting to you, but it's about other forms of topical Vit.C:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=11051&highlight=byrg&sid=678f2be10ff3043a7aa349069e385756

Also, I started using Avene Ystheal (Emulsion and Contour Des Yeux) about 10 days ago, after getting weary of never being able to build up a tolerance to SkinCeuticals Retinol .5% more than 3x/week. It was too irritating, drying and even caused lines around my eyes (I didn't even apply as much in the eye area but nevertheless had trouble with it). At first I thought the Avene was too weak, but I'm liking it more and more. My skin looks better. Maybe I can use the stronger stuff when summer weather makes my skin oilier, but for now I'm content. I've begun to wonder if retinoid product directives that suggest starting slowly and then working up to daily tolerance is just not appropriate for everyone. Surely there are others like me who have difficulty tolerating strong retinoids (I could never tolerate prescription tretinoin either). I even wonder if my concern about increasingly thinning skin (I'm 54 and realize that this happens as one ages) may be due in part from retinoid use that's simply been too strong for me. If you've had the same experience with retinoids, you may want to go ahead and try the Avene Ystheal line. La vie en rose uses their Diacneal line and really likes it, so I may graduate to that eventually, or at least try it when the Ystheal runs out.

free skin care · Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:30 am

Ascorbyl palmitate is the lipophyllic form of vit C and the one that is best absorbed topically.

If you want Ester-C benefits, take some caps.

Those are my 2 cents, without reading all the topics on this forum, but based on other sources of knowledge.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:32 am

Hi, thanks everyone! Very informative, I've got more reading to do.

That's interesting about the Ascorbyl Palmitate being the one that's absorbed the easiest topically.

Unfortunately I cannot injest Vit. C capsules, I have all kinds of stomach issues, and I've tried so many times, but no, just can't.

Anyway, that link I provided above, doesn't it say that their "patented" Ester-C stuff is in liquid form? Interesting. I wonder if a regular consumer can purchase this exact Ester-C they are talking about, I'm just curious about it. I want to try to make a serum myself.

So anyway, I know I can buy some magnesium ascorbyl phosphate that's not too expensive, but for ascorbyl palmitate, I can just buy capsules or something and put them in my serum??

If I used ascorbyl phosphate and ascorbyl palmitate and a little bit of ascorbic acid do you think it would be of benefit, because I read a study that TOGETHER ascorbyl phosphate and ascorbic acid could be very powerful and a good thing. (At least I "think" it was ascorbyl phosphate)

So, why not use all 3 in one serum?

free skin care · Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:24 am

Hi Ocean,

The problem with using all three forms is their respective solubilities.

L-ascorbic acid is soluble in water.

Ascorbyl Palmitate is soluable in oil.

In order to have an effective serum of the two, you'd need to find a way to emulsify them ...

Also, I was under the impression, from what I've read here and in other places, that the only form of Vitamin C that the body can use is the l-ascoribic acid. The body must convert all other forms of Vitamin C into l-ascorbic acid ...

Just my two cents.

Mary

free skin care · Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:27 am

ocean wrote:

Hi, thanks everyone! Very informative, I've got more reading to do.

That's interesting about the Ascorbyl Palmitate being the one that's absorbed the easiest topically.

Unfortunately I cannot injest Vit. C capsules, I have all kinds of stomach issues, and I've tried so many times, but no, just can't.

Anyway, that link I provided above, doesn't it say that their "patented" Ester-C stuff is in liquid form? Interesting. I wonder if a regular consumer can purchase this exact Ester-C they are talking about, I'm just curious about it. I want to try to make a serum myself.

So anyway, I know I can buy some magnesium ascorbyl phosphate that's not too expensive, but for ascorbyl palmitate, I can just buy capsules or something and put them in my serum??

If I used ascorbyl phosphate and ascorbyl palmitate and a little bit of ascorbic acid do you think it would be of benefit, because I read a study that TOGETHER ascorbyl phosphate and ascorbic acid could be very powerful and a good thing. (At least I "think" it was ascorbyl phosphate)

So, why not use all 3 in one serum?

Uh, strange. Ester-C is buffered and is less hard on the stomach. Did u try taking one 500mg capsule at the beginning of a meal? Maybe with additional magnesium. All Ester-C are the same and its a patented form, yes. I take capsules that are called "Ester-C plus" which have added bioflavonoids that are very important for absorbtion. And I take about 2.5g of vit C a day.

Ascorbyl palmitate is better to not be taken orally cause it crosses the BBB. its NOT a naturally occurring form of vitamin C. It is available only in softgels, in oleous solution. Check the other ingredients in your product to see if there is something you wouldnt want on your skin, but there shouldnt be any.

I dont think other forms of vit C would hurt in a topical Wink

free skin care · Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:48 am

sooo...
is l-ascorbic acid better absorbed by the skin or Ascorbyl Palmitate??

im confused... because i've always been told that our body converts any kind of vitamin C to L-ascorbic acid in order to be absorbed...

free skin care · Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:45 am

l-ascorbic acid - best for skin. doesn't need to be converted.

C-esters have been around forever. They do have to be converted by your skin so less effective. If you use a C-ester product, make sure the % of C-ester in it is really high (like 25-30%) so you have some C left after the conversion.

Magnesium Ascorbyl Palmitate (MAP) is another form of C. It, too, must be converted by your skin into l-ascorbic acid.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:14 am

Hi everyone, thanks for great information.

I realize that ascorbic acid and Magnesium ascorbyl phosphate are water soluble, I believe, right?... and ascorbyl palmitate is oil soluble.

I guess I just want to deal with the water soluble Vit. c's then, the ascorbic acid and the mag. ascorbyl phosphate.

Anyway, the Ester-C@ I've been referring to (see my link I posted in one of my posts above in this thread) I "think" is different from what some are calling c-esters, the Ester-C@ I'd like to buy is the LIQUID TOPICAL Pantented Inter-Cal COrporation's Vit. C that they developed and patented in which they ADDED some minerals, I believe, and did studies showing it DOES penetrate into deep layers of skin and DOES promote collagen ).

I think they added minerals to it to make it penetrate better and deeper and to stabilize it further?? but I'm not sure.

This Ester-C@ patented liquid topical stuff the Inter-Cal COrp. developed is used mainly, they said, in cosmetics that consumers buy in health food stores, but I'd like to buy some of this liquid topicsl Ester-C@ to make my own serum, but I'm not really affiliated with any company, so I'm sure I can't purchase it : (

THe topical liquid stuff sounds good, and I know I can buy other liquid VIt. C stuff at health food stores, but that's not really what I want. I just want some of this Inter-Cal liquid stuff, LOL.

I know I can buy a Vit. C serum with this stuff in it, I believe there's lots of "natural" cosmetic companies that use it, but I just want to make my own because I'm curious, and because of my severe sensitivities. Most of those "natural" companies still put nasty synthetics, even tho they may be just traces of it, in their serums that I can't tolerate. And yes, I know I'd have to make my serum on a daily basis and use it up so it won't get bacteria : )

Those of you who have serums/gels with this Ester-C@ patented stuff in it, it might say somewhere on the bottle that the ester-C@ ingredient used is an Inter-Cal Corp. patent, let me know what brand you have and if you think it has/does produce collagen.

I know there are other forms of Ester-C from this company, powder, etc. But they made the liquid form for the sole purpose so that it would be better absorved and penetrate deeper layers of the skin and be more stable.

I know it's not as "effective" as L-ascorbic acid, but I can't tolerate too much of the ascorbic acid which is supposed to be at 15% in the solution and a pH of 3.5 to be effective at building collagen, and that's really irritating on the skin.

Remember my main reason is for building collagen (my skin got way too think in some areas, and drives me crazy).

Maybe I should just try Matrixyl products instead, but are these less irritating? and then I'd have to find "ALL NATURAL" serum/gel.

and I don't know if I do well with peptides for collagen or not, but I'm thinking of putting some peptides in the Vit. C serum also, if that's possible.

Can't start of retinoids yet, too sensitive. Ystheal later on is a possibility.

free skin care · Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:00 am

ocean wrote:

Anyway, the Ester-C@ I've been referring to (see my link I posted in one of my posts above in this thread) I "think" is different from what some are calling c-esters, the Ester-C@ I'd like to buy is the LIQUID TOPICAL Pantented Inter-Cal COrporation's Vit. C that they developed and patented in which they ADDED some minerals, I believe, and did studies showing it DOES penetrate into deep layers of skin and DOES promote collagen ).

THe topical liquid stuff sounds good, and I know I can buy other liquid VIt. C stuff at health food stores, but that's not really what I want. I just want some of this Inter-Cal liquid stuff, LOL.

(...)

Those of you who have serums/gels with this Ester-C@ patented stuff in it, it might say somewhere on the bottle that the ester-C@ ingredient used is an Inter-Cal Corp. patent, let me know what brand you have and if you think it has/does produce collagen.

Oooh now its all clear. This stuff looks really interesting, I second your request to post products and brand that have this Inter-Cal C serum in it and mybe post results.

Unlike you, I have absolutely no time nor desire to homebrew anything, but I try to limit the sh*tty chemicals in the topicals I use (or the stuff i eat...).

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:59 am

Hi Syr, I'm going to , when I have time, search for products containing this.

So far, I'm pretty sure Jason Naturals and Zia uses it, probably lots of others., and both these companies have Vit. C serums I think. The Jason one has lots of oils in it though, yucky for my skin. The Zia one is probably too oily for me, too.

I think Derma-E uses it too. I may look up the ingredients on that one.

I'd like to know what percentage of this Inter-Cal's Ester-C@ is used in the formula to be effective.

I have a question to everyone/anyone...

Where on this website is the "formula" section, I haven't even taken time to browse this website, I don't come here too often, but am going to start coming here really often, I really like it. So, there's a section where people post their formulas for homemade recipes?

Thanks.

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.