Author |
Message |
|
|
Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:50 am |
I use retin-A on my face only during the winter and fall months, and completely stop during spring/summer. My rationale is that, because retin-A thins your skin and makes you more susceptible to sun damage, and because you just naturally are exposed to a lot more light during summer (even if I don't go to the beach, I like to enjoy life and get some sunshine), why use a product that makes you (ironically) more likely to get sun damage?
I also avoid using glycolic acid and exfoliating a lot during the summer, because, again, I prefer to build up a layer of thickness for a kind of natural protection.
What do others think about this? |
|
|
|
|
Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:16 am |
I have actually been thinking a lot about the same things you mention, particularily in reference to retinoids. I use Differin all the time, not just for antiaging but for acne so I am hesitant to stop using it for a few months. Here is my question and it applies to any time of the year not just summer. Retinoids are supposed to help with sun damage and aging but they also make you more sensitive to the sun. So I would think that unless you are totally avoiding the sun any sun exposure you get would do more damage than if you had not been using any retinoids, even it you are using the best sunscreens. Do the antiaging benefits you get from using retinoids exceed the extra sun damage you get from using retinoids? But then something else to consider is actual sunscreen use. I wonder if those of us who use retinoids are more strict about sun protection and would tend to use stronger sunscreens. I know I have been very strict about sunscreen use since I have been using Differin. So it is possible that the better use of sunscreen would more than compensate for the extra sun damage.
Ah... I will stop now. Another one of those things that I think a lot about and don't have an answer to!! |
|
|
|
|
Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 am |
Hi there!
I use Tretinoin 0.05% (same as Retin A) and acids for exfoliation (i use 2% or 5% BHA). I will be stopping with Tretinoin at the end of the next week for the rest of the summer. I don't want to risk any sun damage (and I will be in outdoors and exposed to the sun a lot this summer).
But, I will continue with my acids. I need some way of exfoliation, and BHA's are my acids of choice at this point.
HTH |
_________________ 44, oily T-zone, acne prone (PCOS) ~ Baby Q & Tanda (blue light) ~ Karin Herzog (Oxy Face, Vita-A-Kombi 2, Vitamin H, Eye cream) ~ PSF (Cramberry Eye Gel) ~ Pearl/Silk powder primer and mist ~ L2K ~ MMU |
|
|
|
Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:22 pm |
TheresaL, yes, I've often thought that it's such a contradiction-- you're encouraged to use retin-A, AHAs, microdermabrasion, etc, and every single one of these removes a protective layer of skin and exposes you to MORE sun damage. I've asked a couple dermatologists about this and never gotten a satisfactory answer (they never have good answers to "cosmetic" questions).
It seems to me the answer is that there's no perfect way to do it and you have to be balanced. My inclination (which may be wrong) is that you really can overdo it with exfoliation. In the short run, you may have a nice rosy glow, but you're setting yourself up for more damage down the road. That's why I've decided to avoid most types of exfoliation, and only do a facial scrub once a week, during the summer and spring.
I also think it's contradictory that dermatologists tell you that retin-a both thins your skin ("so be careful and wear sun screen!") and thickens it. I think there's probably a lot we don't know about long-term (30+ years) of using these exfoliation-type products. |
|
|
|
|
Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:35 pm |
This is a good question.
Me personally, I have an office job and protect myself obsessively with sunscreen when I go out after work (even though it's after 5 and the sun has mostly died down)... so I feel OK with using Retin A or AHA products at night. If I was out in the sun all day, I would think twice about it, though.
I do know that when I was a teenager I used Retin A for acne (prescribed to me by a family friend who was a doctor) without taking any precautions with sun...no sunscreen at all. I think I probably even got tan/burned with Retin A a few times. Not a good idea, but I really didn't know what I was doing at the time. I think this might be one of the reasons I see early signs of aging. |
|
|
|
|
Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:02 pm |
I spot use Tazorac and glycolics all year round. I think you can over exfoliate any time but these do make your skin more sensitive to sun exposure. All the studies I've read though say as long as you don't over do it both of these are skin thickening the only caveat is overdoing it differs from person to person.
I did have a horrible experience with hydroquinone over the summer even though I do use a lot of sunscreen I got vicious hyperpigmantation. |
|
|
|
|
Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:47 pm |
gserchi wrote: |
I think there's probably a lot we don't know about long-term (30+ years) of using these exfoliation-type products. |
Very good point gserchi and something that I have really been thinking about the past few months. I had been getting 60% or 70% glycolic acid peels for the past 2 years or so and a few months ago I started debating the whole face peel idea and what got me started debating it was this idea, "there are no long term studies". After several months of considering the pros (which at my age, 38, are mostly clearer pores and smoother skin) and the cons and the unknowns I decided just this weekend that I will not for the time being continue with the face peels. I briefly flirted with the idea of microdermabrasion and had one done to see what I thought but I decided not to do that either.
So for the time being I am like you sticking with scrubs. For me I am using a very gentle scrub twice a week until I run out then I will be trying some low strenght enzyme peel stuff that I bought. I do need to look into the whole enzyme peeling idea but it sounds alot gentler than acids and microdermabrasion. Maybe when I am older and have other issues to contend with I will reconsider the peels but hopefully by then we will have a little more knowledge about the long term effects.
We sort of seem to have a lot of the same thoughts on this, very interesting! |
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:06 pm |
Hi
The long-term effect and ratio of increased damage is something I've always wondered about too. It's one of the reasons I gave up the Retin A, but now I'm back using Retinol (just for my eyes) I'm looking for some answers too.
I'm never clear about this 'may cause sun sensitivity' statement either. Does that mean only in some people and because of irritation of the Retinoid on the surface of the skin or does it mean because the sun will penetrate more easily?
I think there must be some research into long-term Retin A use somewhere or some user experience at least, because I can remember it being used in the 1970s to treat one of my friends for acne.
This photo on another site (a section of the skin before and after 20 months of Retin A use) interested me because it makes the skin beneath the horny layer look so much more robust I'm thinking it could take UV penetration much better than the 'before' photo. Also the thinned horny layer is apparantly more similar to a young person's and they don't necessarily sustain more UV damage than older people, do they? (not children, but young adults)
I'll post a link to the original discussion I found it on because there's an interesting discussion vis a vis Retinoids and thinning skin.
http://theskincareboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=622&start=0
But it's originally from MUA so if you're not registered there you should be able to see it here
http://img.makeupalley.com/9/1/4/5/395173.jpeg
So to summarise my waffling: I'm thinking firstly the epidermis is SO much more robust and secondly the horny layer is just more youthful, which doesn't necessarily mean we sustain more damage.
I don't know about irritation.
It's just a thought. I'm in two minds too. What do you think?
Molly |
|
|
|
|
Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:24 am |
Molly,
I agree, if there is one antiaging treatment that we have long term research on it would be RetinA.
From the discussion you posted it sounds like retinoids thicken the dermis but thin the epidermis. I would think that a thicker dermis would mean your skin is better able to withstand assaults like those from sunlight.
But does a thinnner epidermis mean that more sun can get through to damage the dermis or not. Or if the epidermis is thinner but healthier would the fact that it is healthier result in a better ability to prevent sun damage even though it is thinner.
I have also heard that retinoids thin your skin initially but then cause your skin to thicken. I do not know if this would refer to the dermis, epidermis or both. I have heard this several times but would have to find the acutal source of the information to see what they are refering to.
I think that if retinoids are causing irritation then they would be making you more sensitive to sun damage. Some people feel that one of the reasons that strong retinoids work so well is that they cause irritation. Then there are those that say they should not cause irritation if used properly and that their benefits have nothing to do with irritation.
I don't exactly have one mind on this either. I honestly think that sometimes not having your mind made up about something can be beneficial. Because then you are really free to consider different possibilities instead of being tied to one philosophy and trying to defend that philosophy against contrary evidence. But then I have learned a lot weighing evidence against my "set" ideas. I guess each has it's place! |
|
|
|
|
Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:05 am |
I will continue to use my retinoid during the summer because I am rarely in the sun, and I wear sunscreen every day anyway. If I were in the sun a great deal and/or was unprotected by sunscreen, then I would probably consider dropping the retinoid. At this point, however, I don't really think the sun is much of a risk for me.
Tina
Tina |
|
|
|
|
Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:03 pm |
Are all tretinoin created equal? (I use Rx, no brand from my derm). I am thinking of trying Stieva, Retacynl... |
_________________ 31, Combination normal-dry skin, loves CSRx, PSF, A'kin, Decleor, ACV, Jojoba oil! |
|
|
Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:56 am |
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.
Click Here to join our community.
If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site. |
|
|
|