What do you think about Care of the Elderly?
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Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:32 pm

I don't know about other countries, but in Britain it seems like no-one has any time for the elderly anymore. Everything seems to be focused on youth and as for the old - they're just waiting to die....

But I don't agree with this, if anthing our elders should be respected, revered and looked after by the family for all they have given us and for the wisdom of age they possess.

But this does not happen.

My Grandfather had alzheimers and while my Mum cared for him during the day, he had to spend the rest of his time in a retirement home. Through reasons I won't waffle on about, the home did not look after him and contributed to his death which was later on in a hospital where he received less than basic care and minimal attention from medical staff who thought he was not worth saving.

What are your experiences with older loved ones? Have you experienced similar or different? How do you think society views the elderly and do you think the current mindset for them is wrong?

Your Thoughts.....

free skin care · Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:08 pm

I spent alot of time with my grandmother before she passed away. Crying or Very sad

It was really hard to take. I do agree with you, it almost seemed as if she wasn't a whole person when she got sick. I mean that's how others seemed to treat her. Anyhow, I think we should take much better care of our elderly. I learned so much from my grandmother those last couple of months. I still miss her very much. Crying or Very sad

free skin care · Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:01 am

I agree with you completely.

Along with our seeming disregard for the elderly, we're in the process of losing our local traditions, our culture, songs, stories and dialect. It was often the grandparents who passed these on to their grandchildren. But no one has the time to listen anymore. This saddens me greatly. Once these things are gone, we'll never get them back.

And how terribly sad that people are classed as dispensable and as nuisances once they reach a certain age. We should remember that we too will grow older. Is that how we would wish to be treated?

I love older people, particularly grandparents. And not just my own - other people's too! They are often a joy to talk with and have so much life experience to pass on.

I think it's such a shame that they are being thrown onto the scrapheap. My experiences of visiting nursing homes for the elderly as part of a former job were heartbreaking. They are just plonked in a seat, virtually ignored (even by their own family - well, after they've made sure they're included in the will) and left to die.

Shocking!

Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:28 am

Completely.

One of my biggest fears is getting elderly now because of the way they are treated. If euthanasia was made legal, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened to them all.

free skin care · Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:32 am

My father in Law lived on his own after his wife died, older men don't look after themselves as well as women and he went downhill over a period of years. He had a heart complaint and forgot to take his medication often and for reasons I shan't go into here, we couldn't look after him so we had the hard decision to get him into a good rest home, where they would keep an eye on him around the clock, look after him, feed him and make sure he was taking his medication and we could stop worrying about him so much. With this bit of TLC he picked up, although he had to sell his house in order to pay for the place. The fees were absolutely crippling and he was in a rest home for 3 years, so you can imagine the cost of that. What really, really p***** me off, is that anyone that gets on, works hard, saves their money, buys their own house HAS to sell it later on in life if they need to go into a care home. On the other hand, if you've sponged off the social all your life you get it all for free?!!? How does that work?? Why don't the government give everyone free, decent accommodation if they need it in old age? Why aren't they looked after properly? After all these people fought in wars for us!

Anyway, this home and God was it hard to find a decent one that we were happy to leave him in, this home had their water supply at too hot a temperature, there's a set degree it has to be kept at, and he fell in his bathroom, managed to switch on the hot tap which was just a lever (for ease of use?) and couldn't get out of the bath he had fallen into. So there he was with scalding water pouring over him and he couldn't get out!!?!?! Where were the staff?

The first time I saw him after this incident was when they were wheeling him into casualty and all his skin was hanging off his arm and shoulder! It's a sight I will NEVER forget!

When we complained to the Manager of the rest home about the water and asked how an accident like that was able to happen, he said, wait for it, it was impossible, my father-in-law was probably trying to commit suicide!! How I managed to stop from punching him was beyond me! To cut a long story short, we took the home to court, they were found to be negligent, he got some compensation and the home had to cover ALL hot pipes and change the water temperature. And this was from the best place we could find, God knows what goes on behind closed doors!!

Very, very sad.

free skin care · Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:48 am

I'm in Canada and my grandfather is in a care home here.

In my opinion there is no such thing as true "care homes" for the elderly. If you can look after yourself and don't have many issues, are well behaved, a care home is a great place but otherwise, they are a nightmare.

My grandfather has been in one for about 5 years and he wanted to go into one. He is 93 and had heart bypass surgery almost 10 years ago.

At the beginning it was good for him. He has lost almost all his hearing and he has glaucoma and is almost totally blind now.

In these homes the staff do only the minimum- give meds, change beds, etc. There is NO "care" per say.

My mother spends ALL day everyday at the home (literally) because if she does not my grandfather just sits there all day long. There have been times when he has said he needed to go to the bathroom and has told someone 5 times before someone would take him there. My mom is hesitant to complain as she thinks they will give my grandpa even LESS attention/care than they do now.

One night he had to go to the washroom and pushed the button for someone to come. No one came so he got up to go himself. By accident he knocked over a lamp on the side table. The staff gave him a strong sedative as they said he was being "disruptive". He had a week of bad hallucinations from the sedative!!!! It was terrible!

My mom is there so much that she had thought about caring for him at home but at least this way, if something happens at night, someone professional is there to deal with it.

The staff sits around chatting and talking on the phone (I have seen this myself when I have been there). Honestly it is shocking.

Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:01 am

It's a situation I'm all too familiar with Sarahb. The home my granddad was in only had two people working nights for the entire home and one night, through negligence, a women fell and banged her head. To get out of receiving blame, they decided to pin it on my granddad as he was always up at night due to his alzheimers. With no justification let alone proof, they chucked him out and reported him to a psychiatric unit where he had to stay to be assessed for two weeks before he could leave. Needless to say, apart from being a bit forgetful at that stage, he was mentally fine and a danger to no-one. The psychiatric unit however is somewhere no-one should be. It reaked of urine, everyone in there was just doped up and sat in a chair with their mouths open, there were people on machines dying in his room, everyone in there was actuallly clinically insane whereas my Granddad was not - the list goes on. On the first night he was there, they drugged him up so much he cudn't walk and when he tried to get up in the night to go to the toilet, he fell and hit his head which made him immobile for several weeks. He died two weeks after coming out of the unit. A month before he was a strong, heathly and forgetful man that was improving....Three weeks later a shadow of himself, lying in his own urine in a hospital bed, unable to move and talk and waiting to die.

I don't understand how this can be allowed to go on and it's not one off cases, it happens all the time. This was a man who fought for his country, paid his taxes and worked all his life and in the end his country treated him like a nuisence and like he wasn't even human.

A few days after his death, to add insult to injury, the home that chucked him out for their own ends dropped a letter round to my mum to say they heard he had died so his belongings will be taken to the charity shop if she doesn't come to get them within the next 3 days.

There is absolutely no compassion at all in these places. I've vowed to never let my parents go in one when they're eldery because I feel like I'd be signing their death certificate.

I really don't know how the problem could be addressed because it's so widespread and no-one in power seems to want to do anything about it.

free skin care · Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:38 am

It really IS terrible how we treat the elderly in western societies. Everyone should read the published work by Dr. Andrew Weil on the octagenerians in Okinawa and the societal framework that helps them achieve this milestone.

That being said, I do not believe that the answer to aged care is to take on the burden in the home. I have seen some terrible cases in Japan and always thought how terrible these people were who snapped and murdered their elderly parents or mistreated them, or whatever. I also know of the sacrifices family and friends have made in order to do this. Giving up their job to care for a grandparent (thus no income at all), breaking up with a long time boyfriend in order to take on aged care (and remaining unmarried for good), divorce as a result of having two families residing under the one roof, etc.

(please dont take any of this the wrong way till you read it all) My experience a couple of months ago in dealing with both parents entering hospital and then convalescing at home shone a new light on the problems of being a home carer (the same would apply for any kind of home carer.. sick, disabled,etc.).

The hospital tossed my parents way ahead of time and DEFINATELY before they were physically OK to leave.. why? bed shortage and of course why not toss them out? the daughter was home from overseas to care for them... I had NO nursing experience (and no decent instructions from the hospital) and on my own had to provide nursing care to two of them in addition to conducting regular chores of cleaning, cooking, washing, shopping, remembering regular medications, as well as drive back up to the city where the hospital was for after care. By the end of 3 days I was exhausted, stressed, fretful and becoming increasingly irritated. It was only when my mum had become well enough contribute to the nursing and potter around that some of the stress lifted. That was when I became so angry at the medical system and how my parents were treated in it and the disregard for how families can cope.

I was talking to my husband at a later point and commented that it really opened my eyes as to how hard it would be for someone to have to cope with that on a long-term basis. It may be abhorrent, but you can begin to understand where family's mistreatment of elderly comes from. If elderly care is to be done in home it would HAVE to be a community effort. Absolutely there would need to be more than one person to contribute (and willing to contribute).

As for nursing care's mistreatment, there is NO excuse. My only experience with long-term nursing care was with my grandmother who spent many years in a nursing home before her death 15 years ago. Mind you, my mother used to visit her every second day to collect washing, bring her treats, chat etc (even when she was not coherent). She also used to comment on how some of the residents had no-one to visit them. But the home was a good one and they treated people well, so we were very fortunate (from memory at the time my grandma entered, my aunt was actually working part time there as a nurse, so it was thanks to her we found it.)

For now, I fret EVERY day. And I mean EVERY day about what I will do in the future - my parents are nearly 80, I live in a different hemisphere, I am an only child, and have no idea what I would do if one or both of them needed permanent care or became incapacitated.

To end on a lighter note, my father years ago already made it VERY clear that he would NEVER live with me "in old age". I guess he thinks I will cramp his style. Laughing

free skin care · Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:02 pm

It's just horrible. My grandmother was incapacitated for about three years before she died. My parents and grandfather were so terrified of putting her in a care home that we moved in with them temporarily until she died. My mom and grandfather took turns taking care of her. I'm sure it was a real financial strain with all the equipment she needed, but I'm so glad I got to spend those last years with her! We should take better care of our elderly. It makes me very sad that we just throw them away.

free skin care · Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:12 pm

The Queen-- I agree. My friend took an elder law class and she says she'd rather kill herself than be put in a lot of elderly folks homes.

on the otherhand, my aunt takes care of my grandparents and is there 24/7. it's so hard on her Sad

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:53 pm

Yea I bet it is. My Mum looked after my grandfather for half of every day and even that took it out of her. I'd imagine 24/7 is 10 times more stressful.

I agree with tiger_tim, I don't think it's something you can do on your own without seriously sacrificing a majority of your own life or becoming stressed out and resentful.

It should be a family task, not one for a single person and everyone should take part in caring for the elderly person in their family. As they say, a problem shared is a problem halved. But really I don't think we should view looking after our elderly as a"problem".

I just don't think society values or keeps it's sense of community as much as it used to and I think that's why this particular area along with others are suffering.

free skin care · Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:58 pm

As I said, my mum used to visit my grandmother virtually every day (or every second day).. luckily we only lived about 20min drive away. In the same city she also had a sister and a brother, then out in the country two more sisters and one brother.

Obviously, the country folk never got to visit much (though before she got sick, grandma had lived on a house on her son's inherited farm). My aunt in the city visited all the time too because she lived close (and worked there for a while as I said), but my uncle NEVER visited grandma. Ever. I reckon that for the 10 years she was there (and not that far from his home mind you) you could have counted his visits on one hand.

The day she died, it was left to me to ring them and pass on the sad news and I will always remember their response "OMG Grandma is dead" was the first response. Then "And we were just about to go visit her". I had to catch myself as I was torn between a catty "yea right" or bursting out laughing. That and one incident later in my life taught me that you have to appreciate every moment with the people you care about NOW. Never put things off.. like a visit, a complement, anything.

Ah, bitter, party of 1 leaving now... happy party of 1 returning.

free skin care · Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:44 am

Quote:

That and one incident later in my life taught me that you have to appreciate every moment with the people you care about NOW. Never put things off.. like a visit, a complement, anything.

That is so, so true and a great rule to live by.

free skin care · Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:19 pm

This is such a terrible but necessary thread. It's horrible how our loved ones are treated. Crying or Very sad

I know this is just a business to most of these homes, but I believe we need to have a department like child services to help with the elderly. A department or more who will go out and make sure these people are treated like human beings.
We can't throw away our elderly...there is so much we can gain from them. This actually reminds me of the book called The Giver. One of the premises of the book was whenever a person was a "not contributing" to society...they gave them a "going away" party. Well, in reality they "the powers that be" would kill off the "weaker" society members.

I just don't get it...How can you treat someones loved one like garbage?

free skin care · Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:08 pm

My mother lives in America. She had a near fatal stroke 3 years ago and now she is paralyzed on the entire right side of her body, sits in a wheelchair and has trouble speaking. I arrived from Sweden just days after she had her stroke and spoke with her doctors. They told me her diagnosis was not good and it turned out that they were right. I was given a list of long term care facilities that her insurance would cover. I went to tour them and get a feel for how it would be. I made appointments to meet with the directors/heads of the facilities about possible placement of my mother. The first place that I went to I walked in and was greeted by the lady in charge and after introducing herself to me the FIRST thing that she said to me was, "don't be alarmed by the smell of urine it is common in elder care facilities". I was horrified. Not only did the place smell like a cat box but almost all the elderly patients were basically parked in the halls and rooms in their chairs and no one was tending to them! They were parked there to die. It made me sick. Do the workers there go through training of some kind? It seemed like they hired anyone! I told this woman that this is NOT normal and she made some stupid remark about how I didn't know since I didn't work in one to which I retorted, "Wrong! I had worked in 2 facilities in Sweden and this is NOT how people should be treated". She then backtracked to that in Sweden... blah blah. I was so angry I thanked her and left. The second place was not much different. I contacted my mothers insurance agency and told them about the situation and they said that those were the approved places, which really means the cheapest places that they could legally allow patients to live in without the insurance company being sued. I tried desperately to convince my mother to come and live with me here in Sweden which is where she is from anyway. She said no. She had lived in the US for so long that she wanted to stay. I cried over and over again imagining her living in those holes that her insurance company (Kaiser Permanente) approved. In the end I contacted a lawyer friend of mine in the US who deals with these sorts of things (I lived in the US for many years) and he contacted Kaiser and went over the total cost per year in a long term care facility vs. if she lived at home with care. In the end it was cheaper for her to live in her home with a 24 hour nurse. Even though they admitted that they themselves would be saving money for her at home care they still refused to allow it. Only after I filed a suit did they agree to it. So now she lives in her home with 24 hour nursing care. There are two nurses and they switch off. She still sits in a wheelchair and is still paralysed but she can speak a little more than before. This was the BEST choice for her other than her coming here to live with me which she didn't want. I have peace of mind knowing that she's taken care of. I go to see her once a year and will be there this Christmas.

free skin care · Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:34 am

Anna_in_Sweden wrote:

My mother lives in America. She had a near fatal stroke 3 years ago and now she is paralyzed on the entire right side of her body, sits in a wheelchair and has trouble speaking. I arrived from Sweden just days after she had her stroke and spoke with her doctors. They told me her diagnosis was not good and it turned out that they were right. I was given a list of long term care facilities that her insurance would cover. I went to tour them and get a feel for how it would be. I made appointments to meet with the directors/heads of the facilities about possible placement of my mother. The first place that I went to I walked in and was greeted by the lady in charge and after introducing herself to me the FIRST thing that she said to me was, "don't be alarmed by the smell of urine it is common in elder care facilities". I was horrified. Not only did the place smell like a cat box but almost all the elderly patients were basically parked in the halls and rooms in their chairs and no one was tending to them! They were parked there to die. It made me sick. Do the workers there go through training of some kind? It seemed like they hired anyone! I told this woman that this is NOT normal and she made some stupid remark about how I didn't know since I didn't work in one to which I retorted, "Wrong! I had worked in 2 facilities in Sweden and this is NOT how people should be treated". She then backtracked to that in Sweden... blah blah. I was so angry I thanked her and left. The second place was not much different. I contacted my mothers insurance agency and told them about the situation and they said that those were the approved places, which really means the cheapest places that they could legally allow patients to live in without the insurance company being sued. I tried desperately to convince my mother to come and live with me here in Sweden which is where she is from anyway. She said no. She had lived in the US for so long that she wanted to stay. I cried over and over again imagining her living in those holes that her insurance company (Kaiser Permanente) approved. In the end I contacted a lawyer friend of mine in the US who deals with these sorts of things (I lived in the US for many years) and he contacted Kaiser and went over the total cost per year in a long term care facility vs. if she lived at home with care. In the end it was cheaper for her to live in her home with a 24 hour nurse. Even though they admitted that they themselves would be saving money for her at home care they still refused to allow it. Only after I filed a suit did they agree to it. So now she lives in her home with 24 hour nursing care. There are two nurses and they switch off. She still sits in a wheelchair and is still paralysed but she can speak a little more than before. This was the BEST choice for her other than her coming here to live with me which she didn't want. I have peace of mind knowing that she's taken care of. I go to see her once a year and will be there this Christmas.

How do you know that she is not being mistreated at home? Have you installed secret cameras?
I worry also, I will have to put a family member in care and it really worries me Crying or Very sad

free skin care · Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:03 pm

I think responsibility should be with the elderly person's immediate family to take that person into their home for care depending on the seriousness of the illness of course. And if a family member absolutely cannot look after, than HIRE a health care provider to come in to look after certain things. Every situation is different and theres always a way.

free skin care · Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:54 pm

I don't know.....

free skin care · Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:09 pm

It's really a very complex issue her in the USA. We took care of my MIL in our home for about 18mo. I workrd part-time and then take care of all of her healthcare needs, she was only in her mid-60's at the time but had chronic illnesses. Then one morn, she broke a hip then fell, was taken to the hospital and never left alive. Yes it was hard on my family with both parents working and 2 boys in school at the time. But you know we don't regret it and my boys had personal time with her that they wouldn't have had otherwise. So if you can do it I say do it. Now things like Alzheimers may be more difficult to manage. Being almost 53 this month I'm realizing that in no time at all I'll be a senior citizen. If my health was bad but managable by my loved ones, I hope they would. My own parents are in their mid-late 70's and still very active but you never know when that will change. Sorry I so long winded tonight...

free skin care · Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:58 pm

Hello, The Queen (love the username),
I spend a lot of time in an ederly care home, and I agree with you completely. This subject is so depressing, the people in the home I volunteer at are treated miserably, almost as if they don't have emotions and their lives have no value. I believe that the medical care is sufficient, and just that. Gerneral hospitality doesn't exist, apart from the love the few volunteers try to give. The seniors who live there that I've talked to are some of the wisest and most interesting people I've ever had the privilege to be in the presence of. It's so unbelievable how western society has come to treat the elderly. I would love to know how this shift occurred and why it has gotten and is getting so much worse. I haven't really thought much about what could have caused this, it's so strange to imagine that less than 100 years ago we were honoring our elders, but of course it isn't possible for human nature to evolve so much in a century, I'd love to have time to think about this more...

free skin care · Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:38 pm

Hi
Can I say without being flayed alive that I work in a care home for elderly people with dementia. I work nights & I can only speak from my personal experience. Where I work they have increased the staff quota and we now have 1 staff at night per 10 residents. We do hourly checks on everbody unless the family have asked us not to(not everybody wants a stranger going in their room every hour whilst they try to sleep). Because often with dementia they don't sleep much we have people up sitting in the lounge areas watching TV if they want, or we sit & and talk if thats what they want. We make them hot drinks & food. We play domino's, do jigsaw puzzles, whatever it takes to keep them happy. I work with a great bunch of people and I know my thoughts in all walks of life are that I treat people as I would like to be treated.
I do know that not everyone is the same & we have had problems with some day & night staff but they are soon dealt with.
I would really just like to say please don't judge all care staff harshly some of us do care & try to ensure that the people in our care feel valued, respected & well cared for.

free skin care · Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:30 pm

How does it smell in there?

free skin care · Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:21 pm

A disturbing thought.....I do think the elderly are pretty much stored away. As for a "true care home", I don't think one exists...mainly corporations own the elderly homes. My dad died at age 57 and mom now is 62 and is in great health. I told myself that if she ever became sick, I'd drop everything to take care of her. We, my mother and I, have never been real close, but I still love her and admire everything about her.I don't have grandparents. I do hate the thought of getting older or having a disease where one needs 24 hour care.....as for my spouse.....if he ever became ill, I'd do everything I can to take care of him.

free skin care · Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:38 pm

I had to put my Mother in a care facility in l998. She had lympthoma. It was one of the most difficult things I have ever had to do. I went every day to check her. If you don't make regular visits, I think they just do what they have to do and nothing else. The home never know when I would be coming. I would go all hours of the day and nite. It proved to be helpful. Our elderly are so precious and when they die a lot of heritage goes with them. They deserve to be treated with the up most respect. I lost Mother in 1999 and miss her everyday. She was my best friend. We had a lot of good times together

free skin care · Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:00 pm

SusieQ wrote:

I think responsibility should be with the elderly person's immediate family to take that person into their home for care depending on the seriousness of the illness of course. And if a family member absolutely cannot look after, than HIRE a health care provider to come in to look after certain things. Every situation is different and theres always a way.

I think that every situation is indeed different but I am not so sure that there is always a way...and if there is "a way" it can, in some cases, be financially and emotionally devastating--for both the person being cared for and for the family caregivers. There are extraordinary numbers of "working poor" who cannot afford insurance and for whom homecare financing is not an option. Suggesting that they just hire someone is, in my opinion, a simplistic suggestion/unrealistic solution to what can be an extremely complex situation for some families (emotionally and financially). Also, while there may indeed "be a way" I think it is important to acknowledge how emotionally and financially devastating it can be for all involved - as a matter of fact for many it may not feel as if there is "a way". As an aside: Countries of wealth (I won't name any)should be ashamed of their fractured health and related social policies. I think that my country in particular is bound by the myth of a superior health care system. I think that everyone is being neglected and misguided by the body politic - from the medical community to the homecare givers and, in this case, the elderly patient. It is shameful. My heart breaks for everyone who has posted stories to this thread - my heart goes out to all of you.
Pudoodles

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