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Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:47 am  |
I have been reading the posts about various peels - glycolic, TCA, etc, with interest. THey are not something I personally will be able to use(Rosacea + peels = big fat NO), but I am curious about the effects that you all describe. The peeling, burning, itchiness, tightness sounds horrible to me, and frankly sounds damaging rather than helpful. Does anyone know if there are long term effects from using these peels? I know you are supposed to get smooth skin after you peel, but what about later?
I am not trying to criticise, just want to learn more  |
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Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:27 pm |
| I think that with proper after peel care, the peel does more net good than damage. TCA peels stimulate collagen production as well as superficial exfoliation. It's important to keep your skin hydrated afterwards, protected from the sun and start with lower percentages to get the net gain. |
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Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:25 pm |
Hi Eliza!
I believe that everyone can benefit from some amount of exfoliation to help unclog pores and get rid of the dead skin on the surface that can make the face look dull.
Some people have to be very careful due to Rosacea or other skin sensitivities.
I use a very gentle exfoliation product that you could probably use, it is called 2 Minute Miracle Exfoliation Gel by Ice Elements. It is an enzyme gel that liquifies on the face breaking down the surface dead cells while hydrating the skin... a light massaging of the skin after the product liquifies produces balls that are a mixture of product, dead skin, dirt and oil...
The gel is so fantastic that once rinsed off I see an instant radiance or glow to my skin.
I fell in love with this product after the first time that I used it and it is my favorite...
If you think that you would like to try this, you could go over to the Ice Elements message boards and describe your skin and see if it is something that you can use.
They used to give away free sample, for the cose of shipping, and I think that they still do.
They also have a Radiance skin souffle that contains a slow release glycolic, that while good for all skin types is something that people who cannot use other glycolics can usually tollerate due to it being formulated for those with sensitive skin.
Take care.
Bosoxy. |
_________________
*****My 5 Star Rave***** Just loving everything about ICE ELEMENTS!!! You HAVE to try the 2 minute miracle exfoliating gel... It is to die for! |
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Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:49 am |
Hi elizasue
It's a good question.
I know more about using the milder acid percentages which don't make you peel. The European Union did some research into the use of AHAs and whether it was safe. There are two problems; firstly it disrupts the skin barrier (acid mantle) and secondly it thins the horny layer - both of these make your skin more sun sensitive so it could lead to more damage. Their summary of this research over on the Skincareboard was that an SPF of 8 was adequate to compensate against the potential damage, but I don't know if that's the same for UVA protection and I think it must be a variable depending on the acid. I got hold of these documents myself but they're so detailed I never managed to get through the whole thing.
As far as the stronger peels go, yep you're really impairing your skin barrier function in a much more serious way for several days so need to protect against water loss and the sun, but as they do a lot to boulster the epidermis with more collagen and elastin *maybe* then once you'd repaired the skin barrier damage you'd be slightly more resiliant to future UV damage (but that's just my little theory  )
Personally, I'm not doing that strong kind of peel. It sounds too traumatic and risky to me.
Molly  |
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Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:46 am |
Molly
Have you tried the PSF Pumpkin Peel? I read conflicting posts on whether this peel is strong. I remember Shantel's posts that she could only have the peel for 1 minute but another member said that she did not feel anything at all. |
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Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:26 am |
Hi Ninetynine
Yes, I use it. I can't remember what the percentages are, but quite low. It's just a superficial, resurfacing peel. Nothing like TCA or strong glycolic peels which damage to promote healing.
I think it's confusing that we call all these products 'peels'. The PSF is a gentle exfoliator for your dead cells on the upper surface of the skin you can use once or twice a week. You shouldn't get any subsequent peeling from it unless you use other exfoliators too. |
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Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:37 pm |
Thanks Molly for your help.
I have ordered the PSF pumpkin peel and was just checking that it wasn't too strong for me.
By the way, which part of China are you in? |
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Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:06 am |
| It does *feel* strong actually so don't be shocked by the stinging. Maybe that's why Shantel took it off after one minute. Peels are like that because they're not buffered like leave on products, but it doesn't mean it's really strong. I PMed you on the China question. |
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Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:50 pm |
I'm confused about peels too. Do all these at home light peels of AHA, BHA, Glycolic etc. supposed to produce actual peeling and redness like you get from a bad sunburn? Or do they just exfoliate the dead skin cells off the surface like scrubs do? Like micro-crystal scrubs etc. Are they stronger or better then micro-crystal/ microdermabrasion scrubs?
How often can you do them and besides for using sunscreen, what else are you supposed to do to your skin to help it heal from the damage or irritation? Do they cause like constant inflammation in the skin?
I use this 5% leave on Salicylic Acid and it does start stinging. I usually try to neutralize it with aloe vera or baking soda after about 5 minutes. I don't know though if that is a good or bad sign that it stings.
What is a good peel to start with as a beginner? Just a pure glycolic? At what %? Can you just use things from your kitchen for it? Like wine and sugar, lemon juice, pumpkin, pineapple, green papayas etc? Thanks. I learn so much here!  |
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Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:41 pm |
| Quote: |
| Do all these at home light peels of AHA, BHA, Glycolic etc. supposed to produce actual peeling and redness like you get from a bad sunburn? |
Hi BYRG
Definitely not, no. Your face might be a little bit red immediately after, but by morning all should be well. Best to use some healing bio oil or HA overnight so nothing to irritate your skin. In the morning you should just have smoother skin and be able to use your regular routine. Although on occasion it can irritate your skin a bit so try a little patch with your morning irritants  like Vit C, whatever. To keep your skin healthy afterwards you need to stop water loss so need some kind of lipid such as emu.
Not all of them are just surface exfoliants - peels like Lactic acid 10% or even 40% still shouldn't make you peel afterwards or burn you.
I asked about using fresh Papaya over on SCB and really you need something more concentrated but a really fresh papaya might have enough papaine in it to do something. Other things I'm not sure about. I mean milk does have lactic acid, but it's really weak. On the other hand I used to use yogurt on my face like a mask and it seemed to freshen up the skin somewhat.
I'm not sure if there is a best acid to start with. They all have slightly different properties. I'm kind of exploring the full range these days. Some are supposed to be better for hyperpigmentation than others and some are better for lines than others.
If you just want a surface exfoliant a lot of people seem to like the PSF pumpkin and I haven't read any accounts of irritation. If you want to increase cell turnover I can recommend the DY Lactic at 10%, still quite gentle.
The home microdermabrasion products should stimulate collagen production with regular use and are very similar to the above peels, except they give you an exceptionally smooth skin surface immediately after in my experience which looks divine with MMU.
How often is a matter of skin type and age etc. I could only use microdermabrasion every 7-10 days because it was a bit drying. With the PSF I can use that once or twice a week. You just have to experiment.
Anything else?
HTH Molly |
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Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:30 pm |
Thanks Molly! That was helpful. I am still trying to find out the differences in the types of acids. Which one is supposed to be best for hyperpigmentation? That and clogged pores is my biggest concern, which is why I bought the acid, to clean out the pores. I would like to even the tone of my skin more though.
Do the physical scrubs cause the same type of sun sensitivity as the acids, and can they be used on blemish prone skin? |
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Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:49 pm |
Lactic is good for hyperpigmentation (personally I find it good for pores on my nose too).
Salicylic is good for pores, but people don't usually use it as a peel except in v severe cases. It's generally used as a leave on item (e.g. Skinbio's exfol or DY's 2% salicylic)
Glycolic is apparantly really good for lines but only in very high, serious peel percentages so you don't want to do that as a novice.
Mandelic is good for both hyperpigmentation and pores (it is said to be an AHA with the qualities of a BHA), but I don't know of any peel type product. There's a review here of Vivant's Mandelic but it's an overnight item and be aware it is quite drying because it uses a lot of alcohol for penetration.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=15496&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Microdermabrasion also makes you sun sensitive because you've thinned the horny layer of skin.
I remember plenty of users a year or longer ago who are prone to acne liking Epidermx, though lately they're preferring Epidermx II because it's less creamy and doesn't leave a residue.
HTH Molly |
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Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:54 am |
| While everyones talking about peels, I guess I won't open a new thread. I was just wondering how to use the lactic acid. I got the sample size because I didn't know what to expect. Wanted to use it last night but couldn't find the directions on the dianayvonne website, so tried the cp instead. Does anyone know how to use the lactic acid gel 10 percent? |
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Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:01 am |
Do a test patch first
You just wash your face, dry it - apply a thin layer over your face. I use my fingers. Avoid your eye area. It should sting a bit. Leave it on for 1 minute first time. After just one minute rinse it all off thoroughly with water.
apply emu and or HA after.
Go up with the timing incrementally so next time 2 mins, then 3 mins. If you get a bit of flaking you've gone too far, cut the mins back down.
There are lots of posts over there - I'll find one for you later |
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Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:24 am |
Oh good, you answered my next question as to what to apply afterwards. I am going to try the lactic acid tonight. I used the cp last night. Should I be diluting it with water? I didn't last night, but I just looked at the skincare boards and they are diluting it to start. I did not use any around my eye area. I just used the night eyes premier. I have read too many bad things that happen if you start off too quick, and I have learned my own personal lesson from obagi,which I know is different from cps, but same outcome if you dive in, so I am taking it super slow.
By the way, how often should I use lactic, just once a week? Again, I can't thank you enough for you help Molly. |
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Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:33 am |
Hi Razinkane
You can water the CP down if you want to be cautious. I'd say, just don't slap it all over your face day and night to start and it should be OK. Use a few drops every other day then every day.
If you get a bad reaction from the night eyes premier just stop using it straight away. I don't have much faith in their eye products to be honest.
Try the lactic once a week to begin with. You might want to move up to twice a week. I tend to use it once or twice a week if I'm not using other exfoliants for about 7 mins, but I expect my skin's tougher than yours. You need to find your own level. |
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Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:41 am |
Thanks Molly.
Okay, personal question, don't have to answer if you don't wanna. Are you happy with your skin? Is it what you looking for when you started your cps and exfoliating? Does it take years of months to notice any effect? |
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Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:46 am |
Hi Razinkane
I can't answer all that now  . It's a long story because I'm nearly 43 and I've been using CPs since I was about 35 amongst other things. I loved it at first. It gave my skin a real lift quickly. I hope it does for you too.
It's bed time here.
Night night
Molly |
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Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:08 am |
| Okay, I tried the peel last night. It was different than what I expected. I thought it would be some thick gunk when applied to the face, but it sunk right in and didn't show up at all on my face. It looked like I could have worn it all day if I wanted, plus, I expected it to sting a little and it didn't sting at all. I think I got the gel lactic acid, is that why? I left it on for about two minutes, I was going to do one, but like I said, it did't sting. Well, I washed it off and then applied some emu oil for skin on it. My face looked like a tomatoe, so I washed the emu oil off and then mixed some more with ha (because I can never remember which one goes first), and it was still red about 15 minutes later, so I washed it off thinking maybe my face had enough, then decided I would put on the jason vita-c max facial,(because I am doing the copper every other night) so I left that on for three minutes, and, you gotta love that stuff. My face lost its redness as soon as I took it off, but I don't know why. I am wondering why my face always gets red when I put ha serum or emu oil on it. I mean, the lactic acid stuff probably helped alot with that, but it does it when I use every other time too, especially if I use it on my docellete area. I am not sure if I am using the lactic acid in the right way, because I don't know if there is a difference in the gel or the...oil? |
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Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:36 pm |
Hi Razinkane
Sorry, but you're making me laugh now I hope that's not too mean, but nothing ever seems staightforward with you and your skin.
The gel is the only DY lactic product I know of (there is no oil). I'm really surprised you didn't even get a tingle from it. What did you wash your face with before that? Did it leave some residue?
I find it's quite a thick gel. Maybe you were very careful and applied it extremely thinly (good thing too first time). Put it on a bit thicker next time.
Did it make your skin feel softer in the morning? If not, leave it on a minute longer next time.
But looking at everything you say it seems to me you've got really sensitive skin now. I can't believe you used Obagi so young! If I were you I'd just leave the Lactic and use soothing things; emu, HA and the other Vita C thing you mention if it's calming until your skin is less reactive and add CPs later and the lactic well after that.
I've read some accounts of people with sensitive or Roscean skin and they say they always get a red flush when they wash their face (even with water) or put on even gentle things like emu, but it soon dies away.
Maybe you should post about your face flushing after emu etc as a new thread because I don't have sensitive skin so I don't really know what to tell you.
Molly |
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Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:09 am |
Sorry for being so overreactive. I just get a little worried sometimes.
I washed my face with cetaphil. I did apply it very thinly, and yes, my skin was certainly smoother to the touch.
I used obagi because my pores were bugging the hell out of me, from tanning probably, so my *doctor* suggested it. I think I layed on the retinol too much, meaning applying more thinking it would work faster. I also used the skin lightener, forget how to spell it, and I think I basically ruined my own skin. I layed off it after about 5 or so months, I had about one more month before I went to maintain stage, but my skin looked like hell. Whenever I itched my face my skin came off and it would leave a scab. Yuck. I guess thats why I wanted to take cps slower. Last night I used it for the second time and so far so good, but still way to early to tell if my skin is going to react. It does not make my skin red, so I think thats a good sign. I'm pretty sure the reason my skin was red was because of the lactic acid, I just thought that when I put the emu oil on it would soothe it I guess. My face wasn't red the next day and isn't today. Well, no more than usual. I like to think I'm a usually a cut and dry person, but when it comes to this skincare stuff I just want to know every little detail I can in case I am doing something wrong. Anyways, I think I got it now and thanks a million for your help, or I would have been calling skin biology 4 times a day |
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Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:54 am |
| Opps, sorry, forgot I had another question. Did you ever try the neova? I did a search, and it seems that the first generation did well on lines and wrinkles, but the second is more for healing. Is there any way you can use these together? One in morning, one at night, or alternate nights? Or is that waaaaaaaay too much copper? I have fine lines around my eyes, but am afraid to use the skin biology cps on it because I don't want the droopy skin. (don't even want to risk it ) |
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Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:02 am |
Hi
I've never tried it. I'd like to some time. Skinbio keeps saying it's going to bring out a first generation product for the eyes.
I guess you could alternate; one night 1st gen, next night 2nd gen. I think for a lot of people the 1st generation would be a better option for the eye area. Skinbio's eye products seem to give people a lot of trouble, but you couldn't really call it the 'uglies' because it seems too immediate to be the copper working in some way.
Good idea to try the Neova on your eye area if you've got some spare cash.
I was thinking, I did have sensitive skin for a couple of weeks not long ago and everything I put on it made it red, even emu. In the end I just left it bare as often as possible. I don't think you should be using the Lactic until your skin's a bit healthier though. I just say it again, though I'm sure you'll ignore me.
M 
p.s. the 1st gen were tested for wrinkle improvement, but the products don't contain the same percentage as in tests so it's not a sure thing. |
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Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:46 am |
| Molly wrote: |
I don't think you should be using the Lactic until your skin's a bit healthier though. I just say it again, though I'm sure you'll ignore me.
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Molly you are bad! 
Although I imagine what you say is true....
razinkane, let me share my experience with peels and my face turning red. I don't have roseacea but I do have very sensitive skin. For a while I was getting peels done at my derms and it did not matter what the percentage was (30% glycolic was the lowest) my skin would turn BRIGHT red afterwards and stay that way for 5 minutes or so, then it would go to a pinkish color and depending on the strenght of the peel stay that way for a day or so. The physicians assistant that did my peels was never concerned with this as it was a very temporary reaction. However, I have been using the MaMa lotion at home for about 6 weeks or so and my face does not turn red after that so I don't know what to make of the whole thing. I actually will be getting a sample of the 10% Lactic Acid and will let you know if my face turns red afterwards.
Now back to your skin. I agree with Molly. Don't use the lactic if your skin is not healthy! |
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Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:59 am |
| Quote: |
| Molly you are bad! |
What's so bad about that?
It's alright me and Razinkane are old friends. I'm sure she'll forgive me (and ignore me about the ACID) |
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