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Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:05 pm  |
I was wondering if there is a way to make your own lactic acid/salicylic acid daily exfoiating treatment.
I could only find lactic acid peels online at high concentrations. Could you mix that with something like Paula Begoun's BHA lotion or so to make a combination treatment? |
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Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:58 pm |
the aspirin masks listed in the DIY thread are basically a BHA/AHA mask with the aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) providing the BHA, while the milk (or lactic acid) and sugar (or glycolic acid) providing the AHA.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=5981&start=317 |
_________________
35, combination skin, post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation at the slightest blemish + stubborn blackheads on nose. Ignoramus about skincare--hence the litany of skincare woes. Here to learn, and grateful for help. |
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Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:13 pm |
| Monica34 wrote: |
I could only find lactic acid peels online at high concentrations. Could you mix that with something like Paula Begoun's BHA lotion or so to make a combination treatment? |
There are 10% lactic acid solutions made by Professional Solutions and sold by skincarecentral.biz, dianayvonne.com, and other online vendors. These are low pH (1.9).
HTH |
_________________
35, combination skin, post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation at the slightest blemish + stubborn blackheads on nose. Ignoramus about skincare--hence the litany of skincare woes. Here to learn, and grateful for help. |
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Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:35 pm |
I found pure lactic acid at The Formulator which I found mentioned somewhere on this forum. I also ordered Paula's Choice 2% BHA Lotion with a ph of 3.
I saw on SkinBiology this new product called LacSal which is a combination of 1.5% BHA and 8.5% lactic acid and ph4. I had emailed them and they said this was their new most effective exfoliant to use with CP on a daily basis, rather than a simple BHA formula. I ordered the CP serum also today.
I figured out that that if I mix one 8oz/237ml bottle Paula's BHA lotion with 22ml lactic acid I will get a lotion containing 8.5% lactic acid and just a tad more then 1.5%BHA.
I think the lower ph of MY blend will make it more effective even. Paula's BHA lotion has a ph3, and with the added LA it will bring it down close to 2
That way I have the equivalent to the Lacsal for much less money. SkinBiology's LacSal costs $17.95 for just 1.7oz!. Im gonna get ten times as much for the same price if I mix it myself
What do you all think?? |
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Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:56 pm |
| Priscilla wrote: |
| Monica34 wrote: |
I could only find lactic acid peels online at high concentrations. Could you mix that with something like Paula Begoun's BHA lotion or so to make a combination treatment? |
There are 10% lactic acid solutions made by Professional Solutions and sold by skincarecentral.biz, dianayvonne.com, and other online vendors. These are low pH (1.9).
HTH |
Priscilla, I checked out the prices at Diannayvonne. She has a 4oz 10% LA gel ph 1.9 for $35 - pretty pricey in comparison to using Paula's BHA lotion blended with pure LA from The Formulator.I want to use this on my face as well as my entire decollete and breasts so I will need a good amount each month. |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:52 am |
i think it's feasible.  |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:39 am |
Acetylsalic acid is Aspirin NOT Beta Hydroxy Acid. Which is Salicylic acid. Both are the same family, Salicytes.
Much like my Sister and I are the same family. But both are different, with distinct differences. We share some attributes, a lot of DNA. But we also have dffernt DNA, and Different talents, personalitys and experences.
They are not the same. They are similar, but Aspirin does not have the same deeper skin and pore exfoliating properties of BHA.
Aspirin does work as a manual “scrub” exfoliate. But that does not impact deeper skin layers the same as BHA does. Both AHAs and BHAs unglue the attached dead skin cells, allowing loosening from deeper layers.
Scrubs, like asprin, just “Sand” the surface, leaving unevenness, and are more abrasive. Like sanding a piece of wood with sand paper. A manual scrub can easily remove healthy live tissue, and create minute tears and cuts in the skin surface, a chemical scrub (unless it is a high strength 20% and above) does not do so, it removes only dead tissues. Scrubs also do not create the deeper skin collagen rebuilding effect in deep skin tissue nor inner pore layer exfoliation.
For body skin, which is thicker, scrubs can be very helpful. For facial skin which is thinner, and more delecate, and sensitive to tears, pulls, and tugs, scrubs should be used more carefully, as needed. And if a gentler option will do - normally is the better choice.
Both have anti-inflammatory attributes, both help redness and swelling, But Aspirin is made from BHA, you need to alter the BHA chemically to create aspirin. You should not take BHA to relieve a headache. (well you can, and it works in a more limited, less effective way - but it will also make you vomit, and can be toxic, when you take enough to ease the pain)
The molecular size and weight are different, chemicial structure differ, and the penetration attributes also differ. They are not interchangeable, if you want a true BHA action. They will not both work the same on scars.
For BHA to be Effective as an exfoliant, it needs to be at a pH of 3-4 or below, at 1-2% or more. BHA does not dissolve easily in water, you will need another solvent like alcohol for complete dissolving. And you need to maintain that lower pH to maintain exfoliation action. So you need a stable product.
Milk does contain lactic acid, but in a small amount. And it needs to be extracted from the milk to create the concintrations and purity needed for decent exfoliation. The pH of milk is 6, to high to work as an exfoliant. AHAs at 6 only moisterize, they do not exfoliate.
For a product containing milk the pH needs to be low to create an effective exfoliate that actually penetrates the skin. A milk mask is to high a pH and a super low concentration. So though it may give some moisterizing effects, it is certainly not at all close to what a well formulated AHA, with correct pH will provide.
That’s the equivalent of using Bacon or Spam to salt your food.  You can certainly do it – but using actual salt provides better and more concentrated results, with less extra junk.
Sugar, again the same way. Sugar contains glycolice (an AHA), but the acid is extracted from the sugar, for a concentrated and pure product. The amounts in Sugar, are low. If you are mixing it with water, your pH is to high for effective chemical exfoliation. (water pH is 7)
You will get some manual effect from the scrub portion, but that’s not why you use an AHA. You use an AHA to exfoliate deeper and more evenly then a physical scrub will do. And higher strength goes deeper then a manual scrub will.
A mild surface exfoliate will do very little for scar removal, unless scars are very shallow. Though it can be used. But a chemical scrub will be more effective, and less abrading to surrounding tissues.
Using Milk and Sugar is only going to give you an actual acid amount of about 4% or less. Not enough to do much of anything for exfoliation, other then very mild effects, certainly not enough to impact scars on most skin types. Then we have the whole pH issue still.
AHAs work best at a 5% level with a minimal pH of 3 to 4 or less. 3-4 pH which creates a “Free acid value” (the amount of actual acid working on the skin) of about half the product strength.
So an 8% AHA at pH of 3.4 creates a 4.5 Free Acid Value amount. So though the product is an 8%, you only have an actual strength or 4.5%
So any product with a pH around 3 – 4 needs at least 16% acid, if you want an 8% strength product. You will not get that with a milk and sugar product.
Scars need at least 12% range, though honestly most find even that to low. I needed a 10% AHA, with a 1.9 pH daily, and a weekly spot treatment of 30 – 40% AHA, to treat and remove a shallow raised facial scar. Deeper, and of pitted or depressed scars are tougher, body scars more so.
20 and 40% range is more typical for spot treatment on the face. And 30%, 40% or more standard on the body skin which is thicker and tougher.
The point of using a stronger acid it to break up the scar tissue – which are bands of tough tissue that are resistive to standard/normal exfoliation methods. Thus the need for stronger AHAs and BHAs.
The 10% and 12% products are not normally effective on scars. Or if they are will take at a VERY long time to help in most cases.
Paulas Choice AHAs are actually really only about 4% AHA, because of the higher pH at 3.4.
A pH at 1.9 like Diana Yvonnes products, create a stronger acid, for example a 10% product, is actually a 10% acid strength because the pH is lower. And it is more costly. Lactic also is more costly the Glycolic, but has a number of benefits over glycolic making it better suited for some people.
This explains why:
http://dianayvonne.zoovy.com/category/16.aboutpeels
Mixing a lower pH acid, with a higher pH acid, will most commonly create a HIGHER pH product. Not a lower one. And depending on the formula, the pH may not stay stable at all, and the base may hamper penetration of one of the activities, or may not nix well.
Lotions use emulsifiers and thickeners, and preservatives based on the percentage of other ingredaints. Its often not as simply as just adding a cup of "x" to alter a product. First off thepercent of all ingredaints will change, which will effect the entire product, and often impact performance. But in the case of acids, it can make them less effective.
For example mixing 5% of lactic formula at 1 ounce with 5% BHA formula at 1 ounce - creates at 2 ounce product with 5% acid total. 2.5 of Lactic, 2.5 of BHA, per 2 ounces of product. Because all the other inredaints are diluting the acids ratio.
Of course mixing the 88% lactic acid liquid, with a lotion, will work differently, assuming your ratio is adjusted correctly. But then you have the issue with the thickners, and fillers in your lotion that may effect your lactic penitration.
And then, a pH of 3.4 range, will only give you half the working acid amounts. So you need to adjust in that way also to get enough acid to do what you need. The link above on free acid values, at Diana Yvonnes site - list the amounts of acid needed for specific treatments.
I do make my own AHA/BHA product also from time to time. But to be truely effective, it is not just as simple as adding a dollop of this to your premade lotions. Solubility, penitration, pH, and percent are criticial.
www.ifeelprettyproducts.com carries a good and inexpensive BHA/AHA exfoliate. I have used it myself. They have two strengths, 10% Lactic AHA, and 5% BHA, and a milder 2%/4% version. This will be fine on the face. The pH is on the low end around 2.0
They also have a BHA lotion, which would be good on chest, or face, for those who like a lotion base.
But for scars the AHA will probably not be strong enough. Great for the face though for brightening, pore cleansing, enlarged pores etc.
You can get stronger acids for spot scar treatment from Diana Yvonne, she has small sample sizes, which may be enough. I have also purchased the TCA – AHA kit from here and its fine also. You mix to the strength you need.
http://www.bestskinpeel.com/?OVRAW=tca%20peel&OVKEY=peel%20tca&OVMTC=standard |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:30 am |
Thank you - you have been great help!!! I cancelled the LA from The Formulaotr and the BHA lotion by Paula.
I am going to order the LA/BHA lotion from I Feel Pretty.
I LOVE this noard
Happy Thnaksgiving |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:52 am |
The 10/5 strengh is strong, may be to strong if you are a beginner to acids of this level.
Most people use it every other day. I actually use it daily on my face, but I have UV damaged skin that it normal/oily and not at all sensitive. I can also use it on my neck and chest.
My neck is actually more sensitive then face and chest.
I like it myself, but for sensitive skin, or as a beginner, you may want to start with the lower strength at first, and see how that works.
Though on scars its okay, and they will tolerate it better, it won't be as effective as a stronger product on body skin. But it would be a good option for a larger body area, like chest. Just use a few times a weeks at first, and slowly work up to every other night or daily dependsing on how YOUR skin reacts.
Kim at I Feel Pretty is very helpful, and she will be happy to answer questions, and help you "fine tune". She also uses Copper Peptides, and has georgouse skin!
I envy her. LOL |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:46 pm |
| Tangal wrote: |
Acetylsalic acid is Aspirin NOT Beta Hydroxy Acid. Which is Salicylic acid. Both are the same family, Salicytes.
Much like my Sister and I are the same family. But both are different, with distinct differences. We share some attributes, a lot of DNA. But we also have dffernt DNA, and Different talents, personalitys and experences.
They are not the same. They are similar, but Aspirin does not have the same deeper skin and pore exfoliating properties of BHA.
Aspirin does work as a manual “scrub” exfoliate. But that does not impact deeper skin layers the same as BHA does. Both AHAs and BHAs unglue the attached dead skin cells, allowing loosening from deeper layers.
Scrubs, like asprin, just “Sand” the surface, leaving unevenness, and are more abrasive. Like sanding a piece of wood with sand paper. A manual scrub can easily remove healthy live tissue, and create minute tears and cuts in the skin surface, a chemical scrub (unless it is a high strength 20% and above) does not do so, it removes only dead tissues. Scrubs also do not create the deeper skin collagen rebuilding effect in deep skin tissue nor inner pore layer exfoliation.
For body skin, which is thicker, scrubs can be very helpful. For facial skin which is thinner, and more delecate, and sensitive to tears, pulls, and tugs, scrubs should be used more carefully, as needed. And if a gentler option will do - normally is the better choice.
Both have anti-inflammatory attributes, both help redness and swelling, But Aspirin is made from BHA, you need to alter the BHA chemically to create aspirin. You should not take BHA to relieve a headache. (well you can, and it works in a more limited, less effective way - but it will also make you vomit, and can be toxic, when you take enough to ease the pain)
The molecular size and weight are different, chemicial structure differ, and the penetration attributes also differ. They are not interchangeable, if you want a true BHA action. They will not both work the same on scars.
20peel&OVKEY=peel%20tca&OVMTC=standard |
Acetylsalicylic acid hydrolyzes to acetic acid and salicylic acid when aspirin is ingested and gets into the blood stream. Indeed, the pharmacological effects of aspirin are due to the salicylate produced by in vivo hydrolysis of the aspirin.
I have been assuming that there is also hydrolysis in the mask and/or on the skin permitting generation of salicylic acid in situ. (Analogous to the way that retinol and retinaldehyde can be oxidized to retinoic acid by enzymes in the skin.) I have found it hard to believe that the rave reviews (on this Board and others) on the pore-cleaning properties of aspirin masks are due to the physical exfoliating properties of aspirin granules alone. I don't know the extent to which aspirin is hydrolyzed in these masks, but do know that the reaction can be catalyzed by the presence of acid (or base). |
_________________
35, combination skin, post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation at the slightest blemish + stubborn blackheads on nose. Ignoramus about skincare--hence the litany of skincare woes. Here to learn, and grateful for help. |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:47 pm |
Thanks again. I have been using Paula's AHA (Alpha Hydroxy Acid) which is 10% at ph 3 for a year now with no problems. I use it every night. I had some flakiness and redness around the mouth when I first started on a daily basis (I didnt build up) but that subsided soon.
Im using Retin A 0.025% also for the past week. I put it on after cleansing and follow with the AHA. Later put on come CeraVe mixed with a but Vaseline (as its too light for me during this time of year). Its going well so far. I have just s slight redness after putting it on, but its fine later.
Do you think I could use the 10/5 LA/BHA lotion on my face then? I know the ph is lower, which makes a difference.
I am waiting for the CP, dont have it yet (ordered last night). I should get it together with the LA/BHA and start using it simultaneously. The CP will be calming as I learned
What do you mena it wont be as effective on body skin? The 10/5 is too weak you mean? I want to use it only on my face and chest, but would like to know what you mean exactly.
What do you thikn of using the hydroxies after the Retin A? I read that it gets the tretinoin in more effectively rather than using them apart. Dont know if this is true?
| Tangal wrote: |
The 10/5 strengh is strong, may be to strong if you are a beginner to acids of this level.
Most people use it every other day. I actually use it daily on my face, but I have UV damaged skin that it normal/oily and not at all sensitive. I can also use it on my neck and chest.
My neck is actually more sensitive then face and chest.
I like it myself, but for sensitive skin, or as a beginner, you may want to start with the lower strength at first, and see how that works.
Though on scars its okay, and they will tolerate it better, it won't be as effective as a stronger product on body skin. But it would be a good option for a larger body area, like chest. Just use a few times a weeks at first, and slowly work up to every other night or daily dependsing on how YOUR skin reacts.
Kim at I Feel Pretty is very helpful, and she will be happy to answer questions, and help you "fine tune". She also uses Copper Peptides, and has georgouse skin!
I envy her. LOL |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:16 pm |
Okay, well if you have been using Paula’s Product with out issue then the 10/5 may be fine. But this is about twice as strong as the PC product, it maybe to drying, or may cause some irritation.
Just use a few days a week at first. Maybe leave on at 5 minutes then rinse, and slowly work up to 30 min, based on your reaction. Just see how your skin does. If it seems over dry or irritated, cut time back down, or use less often. You may only need it once or twice a week.
I use the 10/5 on the face, and others do also. But it is strong, and I don’t know how sensitive your skin is. And it sounds like you are not using the AHA correctly to really tell how it does for you?
Retin A and AHA are fine, But adding an AHA AFTER Retin A, is not doing you much good. The AHA is an exfoliant, it needs to go on clean skin, Applying after the Retin A will lessen exfoliation action of your AHA. AHA is not a “push” product like BHA.
Use you AHA first, wait 30 min, then add your Retin A. Or use at different times if that’s easier.
If this is how you have been using your AHA, you are not really clear on how your skin will react yet – because you are using it in a way that prevent correct exfoliation. Try it the other way for awhile and see how it goes.
CP and AHA do work wonderfully together. But you usually don’t start both at the same time, because if you have a reaction to one, you need to adjust your usage. If you start two products at the same time, you don’t know which caused the reaction, nor which to adjust. Introduce them two weeks apart instead. This way if one causes an issue, you can get it adjusted before adding another.
The 10/5 may be to weak for body scars. It will help, just may be to weak to give the benefits you are looking for.
BHA/Hydroxys can help push the Retin A deeper, which is good. But you loose most of the exfoliation effect, not to good. Depends on what you want, I guess.
Ideally you would use the BHA as an exfoliate a few days a week, and as a pusher on alternate days. Or use EMU oil as the pusher.
Just other options, all can benefit, but are advanced uses.
If you use the BHA as a push though, you would want the BHA cream, not the liquid. The liquid would remove or dilute you Retin A possibly, which is not what you want. It is a water, alcohol base. It works better used on clean skin.
The lotion will not dilute it, but can help push it. It can be applied over liquids, gels, serums, and lotions. (though not as an exfoliant)
On BHA/Asprin :
Ingestion of a product uses a different mechanism of absorption then facial topical application. I don’t feel they carry over the same. The skin itself is a decent barrier and effects product absorption much more then a product absorbed through a mucous membrane or the stomach.
I am not saying Aspirin is useless. But I think most people think it is identical in effects, I don’t agree. And chemically they are not the same in effects.
Nothing wrong with that, if it does what you need. But most people that need a BHA, find using a well formulated BHA does work much better then aspirin mask.
And using aspirin for scar treatment, IMO is not going to be effective compared to well formulated BHA used correctly.
I have used a variety of aspirin masks, and they do have benefits, but compared to a true BHA they results are different. I have found this true with many others as well. I just do not find they are interchangeable, IMO. |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:34 pm |
Thanks You are so much help! I will use the AHA before my Retin A tonite. I was afraid it would interfere with the Retin A absorption if I put it underneath.
I really want to use a LA/BHA COMBO, and "I feel Pretty" only has the liquid. I also dont like alcohol on my face. Do you know another company where I can get a combination lotion from? |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:42 pm |
well for the low pH you need alcohol as a solivant. Any acid with low pH has this to keep it stable. Its fine though for most people, even many with sensitive skin.
She uses a milder less "irritaing" alcohol. I also do not like alcohol on the face, and avoid it, but for a product of this type thats the only option. And it offsets any issues, because of the benifits.
Skin Biology has one also, but It is a lotion or cream, and the pH is 4.0. Gives you less available acid) Though it still may be perfectly fine for your needs. Just a higher pH then I would like to see.
This formula, has a pore clogging thickner.
This would probably be fine on body, but my face is acne prone, so not a good option for me. If you are not acne prone, you may be fine.
https://store.skinbiology.com/catalog/index.cfm?fuseaction=product&theParentId=125&id=768 |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:50 pm |
you aha - the Paulas Choice one? Is it lotion, gel, or liquid?
If its lotion, you may want to wipe excess off with a damp cloth before your Retin A, just so you have no possible issues with absorption.
The gel and solution should be okay. |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:03 pm |
Thank you Monica24 for starting this thread and double thanks to Tangal for all this information. I have been on a look out for a good BHA and the Ifeelpretty site looks pretty good.
My only question is why she doesn't list her ingrediants for her products? Or am I missing the ingrediants page?
I am in my mid 20s and I have only been using really doses of BHA. Should I just start with the 2%? Should I add some AHA as well and at what concentration? |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:28 pm |
| Tangal wrote: |
you aha - the Paulas Choice one? Is it lotion, gel, or liquid?
If its lotion, you may want to wipe excess off with a damp cloth before your Retin A, just so you have no possible issues with absorption.
The gel and solution should be okay. |
Its the lotion, it contains moisurizing agents/lipids and antioxidants.
Tagal, what is the ph of lactic acid the way you can get it from "the formulator", in its pure form?
Thanks for the info! |
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Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:57 pm |
| Tangal wrote: |
Acetylsalic acid is Aspirin NOT Beta Hydroxy Acid. Which is Salicylic acid. Both are the same family, Salicytes.
Much like my Sister and I are the same family. But both are different, with distinct differences. We share some attributes, a lot of DNA. But we also have dffernt DNA, and Different talents, personalitys and experences.
They are not the same. They are similar, but Aspirin does not have the same deeper skin and pore exfoliating properties of BHA.
Aspirin does work as a manual “scrub” exfoliate. But that does not impact deeper skin layers the same as BHA does. Both AHAs and BHAs unglue the attached dead skin cells, allowing loosening from deeper layers.
Scrubs, like asprin, just “Sand” the surface, leaving unevenness, and are more abrasive. Like sanding a piece of wood with sand paper. A manual scrub can easily remove healthy live tissue, and create minute tears and cuts in the skin surface, a chemical scrub (unless it is a high strength 20% and above) does not do so, it removes only dead tissues. Scrubs also do not create the deeper skin collagen rebuilding effect in deep skin tissue nor inner pore layer exfoliation.
For body skin, which is thicker, scrubs can be very helpful. For facial skin which is thinner, and more delecate, and sensitive to tears, pulls, and tugs, scrubs should be used more carefully, as needed. And if a gentler option will do - normally is the better choice.
Both have anti-inflammatory attributes, both help redness and swelling, But Aspirin is made from BHA, you need to alter the BHA chemically to create aspirin. You should not take BHA to relieve a headache. (well you can, and it works in a more limited, less effective way - but it will also make you vomit, and can be toxic, when you take enough to ease the pain)
The molecular size and weight are different, chemicial structure differ, and the penetration attributes also differ. They are not interchangeable, if you want a true BHA action. They will not both work the same on scars.
For BHA to be Effective as an exfoliant, it needs to be at a pH of 3-4 or below, at 1-2% or more. BHA does not dissolve easily in water, you will need another solvent like alcohol for complete dissolving. And you need to maintain that lower pH to maintain exfoliation action. So you need a stable product.
Milk does contain lactic acid, but in a small amount. And it needs to be extracted from the milk to create the concintrations and purity needed for decent exfoliation. The pH of milk is 6, to high to work as an exfoliant. AHAs at 6 only moisterize, they do not exfoliate.
For a product containing milk the pH needs to be low to create an effective exfoliate that actually penetrates the skin. A milk mask is to high a pH and a super low concentration. So though it may give some moisterizing effects, it is certainly not at all close to what a well formulated AHA, with correct pH will provide.
That’s the equivalent of using Bacon or Spam to salt your food. You can certainly do it – but using actual salt provides better and more concentrated results, with less extra junk.
Sugar, again the same way. Sugar contains glycolice (an AHA), but the acid is extracted from the sugar, for a concentrated and pure product. The amounts in Sugar, are low. If you are mixing it with water, your pH is to high for effective chemical exfoliation. (water pH is 7)
You will get some manual effect from the scrub portion, but that’s not why you use an AHA. You use an AHA to exfoliate deeper and more evenly then a physical scrub will do. And higher strength goes deeper then a manual scrub will.
A mild surface exfoliate will do very little for scar removal, unless scars are very shallow. Though it can be used. But a chemical scrub will be more effective, and less abrading to surrounding tissues.
Using Milk and Sugar is only going to give you an actual acid amount of about 4% or less. Not enough to do much of anything for exfoliation, other then very mild effects, certainly not enough to impact scars on most skin types. Then we have the whole pH issue still.
AHAs work best at a 5% level with a minimal pH of 3 to 4 or less. 3-4 pH which creates a “Free acid value” (the amount of actual acid working on the skin) of about half the product strength.
So an 8% AHA at pH of 3.4 creates a 4.5 Free Acid Value amount. So though the product is an 8%, you only have an actual strength or 4.5%
So any product with a pH around 3 – 4 needs at least 16% acid, if you want an 8% strength product. You will not get that with a milk and sugar product.
Scars need at least 12% range, though honestly most find even that to low. I needed a 10% AHA, with a 1.9 pH daily, and a weekly spot treatment of 30 – 40% AHA, to treat and remove a shallow raised facial scar. Deeper, and of pitted or depressed scars are tougher, body scars more so.
20 and 40% range is more typical for spot treatment on the face. And 30%, 40% or more standard on the body skin which is thicker and tougher.
The point of using a stronger acid it to break up the scar tissue – which are bands of tough tissue that are resistive to standard/normal exfoliation methods. Thus the need for stronger AHAs and BHAs.
The 10% and 12% products are not normally effective on scars. Or if they are will take at a VERY long time to help in most cases.
Paulas Choice AHAs are actually really only about 4% AHA, because of the higher pH at 3.4.
A pH at 1.9 like Diana Yvonnes products, create a stronger acid, for example a 10% product, is actually a 10% acid strength because the pH is lower. And it is more costly. Lactic also is more costly the Glycolic, but has a number of benefits over glycolic making it better suited for some people.
This explains why:
http://dianayvonne.zoovy.com/category/16.aboutpeels
Mixing a lower pH acid, with a higher pH acid, will most commonly create a HIGHER pH product. Not a lower one. And depending on the formula, the pH may not stay stable at all, and the base may hamper penetration of one of the activities, or may not nix well.
Lotions use emulsifiers and thickeners, and preservatives based on the percentage of other ingredaints. Its often not as simply as just adding a cup of "x" to alter a product. First off thepercent of all ingredaints will change, which will effect the entire product, and often impact performance. But in the case of acids, it can make them less effective.
For example mixing 5% of lactic formula at 1 ounce with 5% BHA formula at 1 ounce - creates at 2 ounce product with 5% acid total. 2.5 of Lactic, 2.5 of BHA, per 2 ounces of product. Because all the other inredaints are diluting the acids ratio.
Of course mixing the 88% lactic acid liquid, with a lotion, will work differently, assuming your ratio is adjusted correctly. But then you have the issue with the thickners, and fillers in your lotion that may effect your lactic penitration.
And then, a pH of 3.4 range, will only give you half the working acid amounts. So you need to adjust in that way also to get enough acid to do what you need. The link above on free acid values, at Diana Yvonnes site - list the amounts of acid needed for specific treatments.
I do make my own AHA/BHA product also from time to time. But to be truely effective, it is not just as simple as adding a dollop of this to your premade lotions. Solubility, penitration, pH, and percent are criticial.
www.ifeelprettyproducts.com carries a good and inexpensive BHA/AHA exfoliate. I have used it myself. They have two strengths, 10% Lactic AHA, and 5% BHA, and a milder 2%/4% version. This will be fine on the face. The pH is on the low end around 2.0
They also have a BHA lotion, which would be good on chest, or face, for those who like a lotion base.
But for scars the AHA will probably not be strong enough. Great for the face though for brightening, pore cleansing, enlarged pores etc.
You can get stronger acids for spot scar treatment from Diana Yvonne, she has small sample sizes, which may be enough. I have also purchased the TCA – AHA kit from here and its fine also. You mix to the strength you need.
http://www.bestskinpeel.com/?OVRAW=tca%20peel&OVKEY=peel%20tca&OVMTC=standard |
I have nothing to contribute to this thread, other than the fact that i became a AHA/BHA fan after using my IS Clinical Active serum (8% glycolic, 2% salicylic, 2% lactic, 2% kojic), but I have to say i'm impressed by Tangal's knowledge of BHA/AHA. Your post should be included in EDS FAQ index. http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=162125#162125 |
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| Tue Aug 26, 2025 11:01 am |
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