break out from DIY ACV Toner!!!
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free skin care · Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:52 pm

I just made my own ACV Toner according to the recipe I found on the DIY thread. I think it was carekate's recipe. I followed the exact recipe except I didn't use lemon oil as I couldn't find any. I used it last night and I woke up with 5 pimples! I'm not sure if I've done something wrong or it just doesn't agree with my skin. For the past week, my skin's been flaky dry and super sensitive and acne prone (due to overcleaning with OCM, I think). I never had problems with breakouts before and have always had very good skin. Somebody please help!

free skin care · Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:44 pm

Wow, I've never had that problem. I think you hit it on the head though, overcleaning from Oil Cleansing Method. I don't think it was from the AVC as much as trying to do too much in one go. Use a nice mask tonight, moisturize well, and call us in the morning?

free skin care · Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:05 pm

I stopped OCM when I started breaking out, and now I'm just cleaning my face with my usual cleanser, but my skin is still super sensitive. I also find the ACV toner a bit drying as well. I've heard sooooooo many rave reviews about it that I just wanna like it so much. Is it possible I didn't use organic apple cider vinegar? I just used Heinz that I bought from supermarket.

free skin care · Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:35 am

It might be hormonal? Question

I think there is nothing (skin care at least) that can take care of that problem.

If not, perhaps you are over drying your skin. I have acne-prone skin but it tends to be combo/dry and despite all the raves of the ACV toner I haven't used it for that reason.

Is your skin needing the ACV cleanser? Are you using too much ACV in the mixture?
With the OCM - what is the mixture and ratio you are using? You might consider tweaking that Very Happy

.

HTH

free skin care · Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:42 am

ACV is very drying and can be very irritating to the skin, especially if you are acne prone or sensitive already.

If you are adding essential oils, this can make it worse. Many of which can be irritating.

If you have oily skin and/or acne, it can certainly make it worse in the long run, because of the irritation issues. Skin oil levels and acne are very much tied into skin dryness and irritation issues. The more irritated and dry the skin gets the more oil it produces to heal and sooth it. There are a few very good studies that show how the skin oil production slows once it "senses" oil on the skin surface. Which is why moisterizing oils of the correct type are excellent for oily skin. Once the skin feels the oil on the surface it stops adding so much and oil level normalizes.

Acne is also related to stressed and irritated skin. pH issues are involved, as well as use of harsh skincare products, among other things.

Pimples the next AM, after first use of a new product are from an irritation/sensitivity reaction.
Pimples from clogged pores take two weeks to surface.
Hormonal acne is hormonal, and pretty much occurs in the same area (jawline and chin) and is related to your hormones, so fairly regular on occurrence and location. Zits within 24, 48 or 72 hours of a new treatment are almost always irritation skin stress related.

If you choose to use ACV toner - dilute very heavily, 1/3 ACV or less per 2/3 water. Or ¼ acv.
And even that can be to strong, depending on your skins health and needs.
ACV is highly acidic and a pH of 2.0. Using this once or twice daily can be to much for some skin types, especially if skin already has issues.

It does work for some, but for others it certainly can be an issue. So carefully watch your skin to gage results.

The same applies to the OCM washing method. I have spoke to many people, who did do it correctly and still had worse breakouts even after the "break in" period.

It can work well for some, especially at first, but it can also cause issues down the road. Especially if you already have acne prone skin. Following with a mild low irritant wash product after often helps, but that sort of defeats the point. I have spoke to, and read about many people getting cystic acne from this method, that never had it before.

It works very well for some though, so if it works for you - terrific. But if not, don't feel "you" did something wrong.

Often a mild detergent free low ph cleanser will suit acne prone and oily skin better. It can be used with oil cleansing, as the last step.

Quote:

For the past week, my skin's been flaky dry and super sensitive and acne prone

This is a standard symptom of skin that has been over dryed, or dehidrated and is stressed.
Also commonly seen when one uses alot of harsh cleansers, toners, scrubs (baking soda comes to mind) etc that are know irritants or skin drying.

free skin care · Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:21 am

what is ACV toner?
could someone tell me?
thanks

free skin care · Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:08 am

felinehhy - ACV = Apple Cider Vinegar.

As much as I wanted to, I could never really get used to ACV toner either. I have really tempermental skin and I just didn't see any real results after 3 weeks and I HATED the smell, it's just so overpowering to me even when mixed w/ the green tea, etc.

For me, no toner has worked better than Burt's Bees Rosewater & Glycerin Toner for Sensitive and Mature Skin. It makes my skin feel toned but not tight and has a very nice, mild scent.

free skin care · Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:25 pm

I don't know how it varies with different kinds of ACV, but I have always used RAW organic ACV and my skin loves it.

free skin care · Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:46 pm

Not everything works for everyone.

I have used OCM on my acne prone skin for over 1.5 years with great success ... and recommend it highly on that basis. For me ... for my skin, nothing else had worked as consistently as does OCM.

However, that's me ... and my skin's individual sensitivities etc. I know it doesn't work for everyone.

The same goes for ACV toner. It's very acidic ... and not everyone's skin loves it.

Mary

free skin care · Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:01 pm

I'm confused, should the ACV be washed off? Or does one just swipe it on after cleansing and follow with moisturizer or Vit C?

free skin care · Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:26 pm

Thanks everyone! Normally, I have combination dry(ish) skin with large pores and NOT acne prone at all. I had been using Shu Uemura Cleansing Oil for several years without any problems at all, until I got the idea that the longer I massage it on my face the better. So, instead of only massaging in the oil for a couple of minutes, I overdid it and massaged for 10-15 minutes. Stupid me, I know. That's when my skin started going downhill. I started to get dry flaky skin everywhere, and whatever products I used would break me out. So, I stopped the OCM and added ACV toner to my skincare routine, but it made it even worse. I made my ACV toner with a bit less than 1/3 ACV like the recipe called for, 2/3 cups of green tea and 12 drops of ylang ylang oil. I omitted lemon oil as I didn't have any. It's so true that not everything works for everyone. Now I have to adjust my whole skincare routine to fit my current state of my skin as all the products I have are for normal/combition/oily skin. It's time to do some skincare shopping Very Happy

free skin care · Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:45 pm

Agent OO-CAT: It is up to you whether you want to wash the ACV off or not, but for most people I think the answer should be yes. As Tangel points out ACV does have a low pH and I would think that prolonged exposure would irritate the skin.

lynn2525: Good luck with the skincare routine. Update us with what you get because I am definitely interested - in the products and the results.

As for OCM - my skin is actually turning drier because of it, which is not a bad thing since it use to be rather oily around the t-zone. However I found that I had to massage gently only and for about 30 secs only, then use a clean warm wash cloth to wipe off the OCM otherwise I would break out.

I also used a cream cleanser (Neutrogena extra gentle) and later on a lemon myrtle vegetable soap bar - but neither helped/provided extra benefits. I think the soap actually made me break out because of its alkaline nature.

Tangel: What brand of cleanser would you recommend? Can they take off makeup and physical sunscreen?

free skin care · Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:27 am

I personally like the Geographix Tea Tree or Azulene cleansers. 5.5 pH, detergent free, low irritants. Leaves skin feeling lightly moisturized and clean, not irritated at all.

Tea Tree is good for acne prone skin, Azulene great for dry and or sensitive skin, though all skin types can use either.

http://www.geografx-cosmetics.com/products-FacialCare-2.html#Foaming%20Tea%20Tree%20Facial%20Cleanser

Very concentrated, a little is all you need, it goes a long way.

If I use it to remove liquid foundation makeup and sunscreens, I do apply oil to my skin first, (type varies but usually mineral oil/baby oil or blend with Jojoba, mineral etc) mush it around to loosen makeup, then using a few pumps of the cleanser in my hand with a bit of water, emulsify it together with fingertips, and rub all over face then rinse with water and a micro fiber cloth.

This normally removes all my makeup well. But if you have a very thick silicon based foundation, doing a second cleanser wash (if its mild like this one) or following with a mild non irritant alcohol free toner (Nivea and Neutrogena have one, Paula’s Choice has one, or VERY dilute ACV and water ) will remove residue.

free skin care · Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:46 am

I tried the OCM for a couple of months and also found that it eventually made my skin more dry and more broken out. :/

free skin care · Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:12 am

Oh thanks, cuppre. That's really useful. So, I could cleanse, ACV (30%) and then rinse off and do Vit C. How does that sound? Thank you so much for the advice.

free skin care · Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:18 am

Thank you Tangal for the recs! I have bookmarked it. *grins* it seems to be all I am doing nowadays since EDS has created too many lemmings to count. How long does the Geographix cleanser last if used on a daily basis? Since everything has to be shipped at overseas rate I want to work out the best deal before I pay.

Hi Agent OO-CAT, has my suggestion worked? I hope it has. Also another EDS member (forgot their name sadly) mentioned that ACV should be unpasturised in order to ensure that the beneficial (something something) of ACV is not evaporated/destroyed. I have read that Vit C can be drying/irritating for people. So a combined ACV toner and Vit C may also be a contributing factor to you breaking out.

free skin care · Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:34 am

Cuppre, it's too early to tell but the last few days, my Vit C went on fine. Although somebody mentionned on another thread that the Vit C I use (Cellular Skin) has a pH of 3.0. I'm thinking of switching it. Thanks again for your help.

free skin care · Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:38 am

Wait..so I should be rinsing off my ACV toner? I don't think I've had any probs with it yet and been using it for 5 months or so, 2X a day.

free skin care · Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:56 am

aries, the reason was acid/alkaline ratios of skin. But I think I'll switch Vit C and that way won't have to rinse off ACV toner. Good to hear from you that it works. I've been giving a try again. Initially I didn't like it coz of the smell and my DH keeps mentioning fish and chips! But adding geranium oil to it did the trick.

free skin care · Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:01 am

Agent OO-CAT wrote:

aries, the reason was acid/alkaline ratios of skin. But I think I'll switch Vit C and that way won't have to rinse off ACV toner. Good to hear from you that it works. I've been giving a try again. Initially I didn't like it coz of the smell and my DH keeps mentioning fish and chips! But adding geranium oil to it did the trick.

Good Lord, maybe I should have read all the posts. Now what's the deal with ACV and Vit C? I should try a few drops of EO in there because it does smell like Vinegar potato chips Laughing

.

I must be doing something wrong, I use my ACV toner with a cotton swab right after I cleanse my face and then immediately after letting it dry a little apply my vit C. Should I not be doing this?

free skin care · Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:45 pm

cuppre wrote:

Thank you Tangal for the recs! I have bookmarked it. *grins* it seems to be all I am doing nowadays since EDS has created too many lemmings to count. How long does the Geographix cleanser last if used on a daily basis? Since everything has to be shipped at overseas rate I want to work out the best deal before I pay.

Sorry I don't use it daily so can't say. I only use it maybe two to three times a week, and it lasts me about 6 months per bottle I think. I do recomend buying two bottles at a time, makes it more cost effective on shipping. And I try to hit their sale they run a few times a year when I can.

Not sure how cost effective it would be for Overseas shippmenmt. But its a nice product.

I use maybe a dime sized amount - But I do remove makeup with oil first, and then do a final rinse with a microfiber cloth. If you use cleanser only, you would probably need to cleanser/rinse applications to remove heavier silicon based foundations.

free skin care · Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:48 pm

ariesxtreme wrote:

Agent OO-CAT wrote:

aries, the reason was acid/alkaline ratios of skin. But I think I'll switch Vit C and that way won't have to rinse off ACV toner. Good to hear from you that it works. I've been giving a try again. Initially I didn't like it coz of the smell and my DH keeps mentioning fish and chips! But adding geranium oil to it did the trick.

Good Lord, maybe I should have read all the posts. Now what's the deal with ACV and Vit C? I should try a few drops of EO in there because it does smell like Vinegar potato chips Laughing

.

I must be doing something wrong, I use my ACV toner with a cotton swab right after I cleanse my face and then immediately after letting it dry a little apply my vit C. Should I not be doing this?

ACV is 2.0 pH, and can be drying and irritating to the skin.

Vit C (L-ascorbic acid form) is also normally a low pH around 2.0 or so, and can also be drying and irritaing to the skin. If you are useing both, at the sametime, it can be to drying and irritating and cause breakouts etc.

One fix is to rinse the ACV off of skin, to lessen irritation.

free skin care · Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:03 pm

Tangal wrote:

ariesxtreme wrote:

Agent OO-CAT wrote:

aries, the reason was acid/alkaline ratios of skin. But I think I'll switch Vit C and that way won't have to rinse off ACV toner. Good to hear from you that it works. I've been giving a try again. Initially I didn't like it coz of the smell and my DH keeps mentioning fish and chips! But adding geranium oil to it did the trick.

Good Lord, maybe I should have read all the posts. Now what's the deal with ACV and Vit C? I should try a few drops of EO in there because it does smell like Vinegar potato chips Laughing

.

I must be doing something wrong, I use my ACV toner with a cotton swab right after I cleanse my face and then immediately after letting it dry a little apply my vit C. Should I not be doing this?

ACV is 2.0 pH, and can be drying and irritating to the skin.

Vit C (L-ascorbic acid form) is also normally a low pH around 2.0 or so, and can also be drying and irritaing to the skin. If you are useing both, at the sametime, it can be to drying and irritating and cause breakouts etc.

One fix is to rinse the ACV off of skin, to lessen irritation.

Ah thank you. My ACV toner is quite diluted with green tea so it's not too bad. So it's more of an irritant factor than anything else then?

free skin care · Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:19 pm

It is drying and irritating.

The green tea should help on the irritation, assuming you have enough. Because Tea contains a number of good anti-inflamatorys, and anti-oxidants, which lessen irritation. So thats good.

The pH could still make it to drying, but unless you have tested it (pH), your tea (if you added enough) may have raised the pH enough to lessen most of the drying issues for you.

If ypou are doing okay, you are probably fine. Wink

free skin care · Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:56 am

cuppre wrote:

Agent OO-CAT: It is up to you whether you want to wash the ACV off or not, but for most people I think the answer should be yes. As Tangel points out ACV does have a low pH and I would think that prolonged exposure would irritate the skin.

lynn2525: Good luck with the skincare routine. Update us with what you get because I am definitely interested - in the products and the results.

As for OCM - my skin is actually turning drier because of it, which is not a bad thing since it use to be rather oily around the t-zone. However I found that I had to massage gently only and for about 30 secs only, then use a clean warm wash cloth to wipe off the OCM otherwise I would break out.

I also used a cream cleanser (Neutrogena extra gentle) and later on a lemon myrtle vegetable soap bar - but neither helped/provided extra benefits. I think the soap actually made me break out because of its alkaline nature.

Tangel: What brand of cleanser would you recommend? Can they take off makeup and physical sunscreen?

My experience with ACV toner was nothing but horrid. I can't exactly blame it on the toner itself. My skin had become very dry and sensitive/reactive due to overcleansing with OCM. I don't know where I got the idea that the longer I massaged my face with the oil the better/cleaner my skin would be. Well, it totally stripped my skin of any moisture Sad

Now I'm still using my Shu Uemura Cleansing Oil (but changed to enriched formula from classic one), but only on days I wear makeup. Otherwise, I use Yon-Ka Cleansing Milk which I really really love. I have 2 toners which I switch back and forth (Yon-Ka Lotion and Cle de Peau Lotion Tendre which is nice but soooooooooo overpriced!!!). I use Yon-Ka Lotion after Yon-Ka Cleansing Milk, and Cle de Peau Lotion Tendre after Shu Uemura Cleansing Oil. I was using Yon-Ka Pamplemousse (am), and Yon-Ka Phyto 58+ Yon-Ka Serum (pm), but I found it not moisturizing enough. Now I'm just using La Prairie Skin Caviar Luxe Cream am and pm, but I use La Mer The Face Serum underneath it at night. Plus I mist my face with Evian spray throughout the day (mostly because it's so hot where I am). To sum it up, I'm just piling whatever hydrating/moisturizing/rich products I can find or already have to get my skin back to its normal condition.

P.S. How does the homemade cleansing oil really work? I mean, I just can't imagine rinsing off oil that easily even with warm wash cloth. Doesn't it leave a film on your face?

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