Review: Naturderm Products: Epidermx II, Chrysalyx, etc
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free skin care · Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:33 pm

manslayerliz: may I ask what type of acne scars you have (are they pit type or just pigmentation scars?) that the Chrysalyx helped with? And how do you incorporate it into your routine with all the other stuff your using like your prescription topicals and the Zenbiotics stuff?

free skin care · Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:19 pm

Hi Sormuimui! I had mainly red scars, but also some pitted scars and the chrysalyx/epidermx2 combo helped them both. As for my routine, here's the one I posted before, and it's basically still the same, HTH:

[quote="manslayerliz"]Sure, I'm happy to talk about my routine.

AM:
Rinse face with water or spritz on a little of ZB's Rinseless Cleanser (I've found that in the winter my face just can't deal with being washed twice a day)
Tone with BBS Toner or ZB's Oxytoner
ZB O2
Apply Finacea gel all over my face, and let it soak in
Apply BBS serum to any broken out areas (Since I haven't broken out in 2 whole weeks ---!!!--- I've been using this serum less--- now I just use a dab here and there to try to ward off new blemishes
Mist face with Caudalie Grape Water
Moisturize--- if the weather is warmer I can get away with just a dab of the Crysalyx, but ever since the cold snap hit Cleveland I need to be heavy handed with Phyto Moisture, followed by Chrysalyx followed by Moisture Enrichment

PM:
Wash face with Triple Lavender Face Foam
Scrub with Epidermx II
Tone
Back when I was broken out, I'd throw in Finacea here, but since I'm not broken out anymore I skip that step, wait 30 min or so, and then apply my taz
After the taz has soaked in, I followed up with grape water, phyto moisture, chrysalyx, and moisture enrichment. I know, it kind of sounds like overkill, but since I started doing it this way all the flaking stopped and my skin has been moisturized and dewy.

free skin care · Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:52 pm

Hi

Tamgirl99 mentioned that she might have got some broken caps using EII. Has anyone got a similar experience?

I have been using EII for more than a month now (probably closer to 1.5 to 2 months) and I have noticed that the skin on my cheekbones are a bit botchy/red. I think they might be broken caps Embarassed

Do you need to mist your face if you are using Naturdermx alone? I am asking as Amy mentioned in any post that Chrysalx might be a bit too heavy for summer and she just uses Naturdemx for the day wear in summer.

free skin care · Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:39 pm

I have not had that problem with EII, but I rub very very lightly and I am extremely careful at the around the upper cheek (orbital bone and just below) as my skin is unbelievably sensitive in that area.

I also find that I cannot use Chrysalyx and Naturdermx together (though now in mid winter I probably could) and I personally think that Chrysalxy is lighter than Naturdermx... what I have ended up doing is using Chrysalyx in the morning (over my vitamin C) and Natudermx in the evening (over my DMAE). On a particularly dry or cold day I add a layer between the two treatments, such as an oil (at the moment Simplicité Plant Serum, but jojoba, camellia, rosehip, etc. would also work I imagine) . Sometimes during the day (usually when I am heading out to my very dry office) I add a layer of HA serum on top to hold the moisture in.

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:36 am

Some time ago I asked the question regarding corundum crystals getting into the pores as I thought I had read it somewhere. I still have not been able to get an answer either in this thread or from Amy or the company. So I have to now wonder that the crystals may be able to get into the pores. What I did want to know was if they did, what then?

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:12 am

Hmm, well, I have a hard time seeing how the crystals would get into the pores - they are simply not that small. but if something DID get into a pore, wouldn't the skin just "expel" it (as in you would get a zit as the skin pushed it out?) It is like a glass shard or splinter I would think...

If you are not getting answers from where you asked so far, why not try Darren at PSF. THey do a crystal cream too and they should be able to tell you.

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:15 am

bushy wrote:

Some time ago I asked the question regarding corundum crystals getting into the pores as I thought I had read it somewhere. I still have not been able to get an answer either in this thread or from Amy or the company. So I have to now wonder that the crystals may be able to get into the pores. What I did want to know was if they did, what then?

Bushy - If there's SOMETHING in a product to get into pores, I'll find it Laughing

!!!

So far I haven't had any problems with either EpII or the PSF Microd products.

Also -- Ninetynine -- even though I do not have sensitive skin, I am sure to rub very lightly.

Marla

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:09 am

I agree with marla and tiger_tim--- I think that that crystals are WAY too big to get stuck in pores. Also, I think that if the crystals were getting stuck in my pores, I'd be able to feel it, or at least see it in the form of some kind of irritation or congestion. However, my skin is the clearest and least congested it's been in my whole life--- smooth and translucent like porcelain, and I use the EpidermxII everyday, so while I don't have any scientific explanation, I can say that I don't think anyone has to worry about their pores being clogged. HTH!

free skin care · Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:39 pm

Thanks everyone. I think the best answer I can get is from actual users and as no one is having any problems then perhaps there isn't a problem.

free skin care · Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:02 am

I don't think any of the crystals got into my pores either. I think I might have rubbed my cheeks a bit too hard when I was in Japan recently - my skin was probably drier with all the heating. I am now rubbing my skin lightly. I hope the redness will go away ...

free skin care · Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:26 am

I just put in an order two nights ago! I'm so anxious!! I hope it will work for me! =)

Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:18 am

You can get a Janson Beckett vit C serum for free if you buy the EpII + Chrysalyx + Naturdermx combo fromwww.goldportbeauty.com. The serum is really nice, very nice texture. I saw a glow already after just a few days.

Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:03 pm

Has anyone here used both Epidermx I and II? And can you tell me what the difference is (and which one you think is better and why)?

I've been considering purchasing Epidermx II for quite some time now, but I've been hesitant because I'm also considering purchasing Microdermx. I used Epidermx I and really liked it, but as you all know it was discontinued and suceeded by E2. I really liked Epidermx I, but I heard Epidermx II is more watered down, and thus can be used every day. But is it also less effective then? I heard that Microdermx is much more similar to the original Epidermx I formula.

I'm considering just buying both and trying both out, but I spend way too much on skincare products as it is!

(I also bought the Dr. Denese crystal exfoliating scrub and can definitely say the original Epidermx I is much, much better. Just don't want to end up in that situation if I purchase E2 or Microdermx).

free skin care · Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:00 pm

Chzzzcake, I have tried both products and IMO the Epidermx II is a much better product than Epidermx I. I gave up on the first version because it felt like you had to rub your face off to get it to ball up.

free skin care · Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:34 pm

[i]

Wow guys - that's what I get for being gone for 3 weeks!! The daughter (NY model) I originally developed Epidermx for nearly 7 years ago now just graduated as a Meteorologist and I was driving her out to her new job. Yes, she and the rest of our family is still dependent upon Epidermx II!

With respect Chzzzcake - I am the original developer of Epidermx. I am not, for legal reasons going to get into the goings on of what was done to me over the last several years. Your post sounds like the false propaganda that has been created by others with ill will. I developed Epidermx and I own the product.

There have been 6 years of scientific improvements and it was time to incorporate those improvements. I have lived in Epidermx - literally - noone is more familiar with the product than I am. Epidermx II is actually the exact same consistency as the original state of Epidermx right after it was manufactured. I am the only one who many times used the original product within days of manufacturing. The original manufacturer did not meet our quality control standards, and the original product was not hydrophilic balanced which is why over time that product thickened. NaturDerm products are made in a FDA inspected facility, each product is sterilized pre-fill and tamper proof sealed - the old maufacturer could not - and did not - enough said.

Epidermx II is not watery, nor is it watered down. People selling an expensive, inferior knock off of another person's years of effort would sure like you to believe it tho. The original Epidermx was recommended for daily use - I have been teaching that for 6 years now. Products that are hydrophilic balanced are more stable and are milder.

Epidermx II works in a different way - we removed the old heavy waxy preservatives that were in the original Epidermx - and research is showing the sodium and hydroxymethylglycinates are formaldehyde releasors. Behentrimonium methosulfate/methylsulfate can be an extreme allergenic. It was the waxes in the original formulation that created much of the "debris" from the "balling up" stage. Epidermx II is intended to be used as a quick scrub, it works more like a spa treatment. If you want to do the old massage you may but like a spa treatment you will have dead skin cells and crystals. We have looked at this under the microscope and it is easily seen.

We wanted to create a line to match what our very loyal, kind customers craved and couldn't find - Affordable, high-performance natural based anti-aging products that were multi-functional and streamlined their daily regimens, and from what I am hearing our customers are very happy. Bushy, I apologize but I have not had any calls or questions from you about crystals becoming blocked in skin pores. I have questioned our Dermatologists and Plastic Surgeons who tell me this is not possible.

You all are just amazing people and are so very good to us and I really would like you to know how much you are appreciated. No skin care line is for everyone, and anyone who has ever spoken with me knows I work to help folks incorporate their favorites. Epidermx II will increase the effectiveness of any product applied after - our Plastic Surgeons in CA use it before they do chemical peels for this reason. This is why we recommend you be careful when you use acid based or retinoid products - The NaturDerm product line is perfectly pH balanced to your natural skin pH to promote skin health. It has long been demonstrated that acidic pH products increase the cellular turnover rate which is why the anti-aging products are acidic. This is why toners are not necessary with our products, even our cleansers are acidic pH balanced just like your skin, and that is rare. Yes, I use all of our products on my eyes - believe it or not, very carefully even Epidermx II - always have.

I believe products should be developed to meet multiple needs; it is about giving our customers the most for their money with the best products we can provide for skin health. I am a RN - my ex is a MD and grandpa is a Dermatologist - I didn't start out to do this - it has evolved and for some reason is what God has given me to do. I am about education and breaking the science down so people can understand what is what vs. the marketing fog for example that surrounds Argireline and the Acetyl Hexapeptide 3 products like Naturdermx. If you read my write up - I think you'll understand it easily. They basically prevent the zipper connection from happening that releases the neurotransmitter that causes the muscle to contract - the FDA likes it called facial relaxation. Yes, it works like gangbusters, if you aren't using them you are truly missing out on science's best advancement in years. Yes, there is a big difference between Argireline and pure AH3

The NaturDerm products are also silicone free. You can count the number of silicone free lines in the world on 2 hands. With my medical background, and the research I and many have done, I truly believe silicones are the single most detrimental ingredient in skin care products today for skin health. One of the most favorite is a type of cyclopentasiloxane - also called D5 - which is dry cleaning fluid. It is used as an emoillient in many high end products. When you hear anyone say you need to change product lines every once in awhile because your skin acclimates to them it is a sure bet you'll find silicones in the ones you are using. Why would you need to change products if products are made without something that is causing a problem?

If you want to use Epidermx II and then you apply other products, like makeup or sunscreen or lotions, you may notice your skin change, TAMgirl99 this may have been what you experienced. Sark you asked about combining Zenbiotic products - this is the only line I wouldn't recommend you to combine as I believe the philosophy of their skin care line is alkaline.

TheresaL, I actually thought by your initial early post you may be allergic to corundum crystal (same thing as alumina). I can only tell you that in 7 years including testing times, we have had 8 returns of Epidermx and they were all allergies to corundum crystal. By the way, there have been zero returns of Epidermx II. Years ago when my daughter was modeling in NYC, several of the agencies had me come out and do clinics with children; some 5 and 7 years old. This whole thing started because my daughter's agency said she couldn't compete in NYC without microdermabrasion - I was a single mom with 3 kids! Epidermx was born! Her agents started to pass it around - now we have customers FORD Elite Wilhelmina LA Models United Artists Womens CBS ABC NBC and FOX and TNT and sorry to have missed any as I know there are more - Dermatologists Plastic Surgeons Naturopaths
Estheticians - it is pretty amazing. 100% of all of them are seeing better results with Epidermx II and the NaturDerm products, and we are too.

I am looking to add a heavy duty moisturizer for our really dry customers, Silkia someone asked about - terrific folks - good friends really and I use it on my hair and nails - they carry our products and if you are dry you can put some Silkia on over the Chrysalyx or Naturdermx. Also a sunscreen, skin lightener and hydrosols. Years ago a MIT physicist taught me that using a mist of water on your face first will
maximize the performance of most products at the molecular level and it does try it - As a result we were actually the first to recommend using Epidermx on moist skin. He said at the molecular level the hydrogen and oxygen molecules create a magnetic state and actually bind to the molecules of hydrogen and oxygen that are in the inclusion pockets of the corundum crystal (which is actually ground up sapphires) they vibrate according to him and flatten the skin.

Theresa L - corundum has a natural astringent effect and yes, it is sharp. On the Mohs scale corundum is just under the diamond in hardness. TheresaL it has to be or it will not remove the dead hardened skin - it won't be able to. Your epidermis has a layer of compacted dead skin cells that has been keratinized which basically is like cement. Over the years this layer gets thicker and more compact - laser the knife and corundum that is about all that is going to impact it - the beauty of corundum is it is gentle safe for all skin types and can be done at home. It is in the small daily use - the cumulative effect truly where you see magic. I have done this for 7 years and my skin looks better than when I was 30, seriously.

The crystals we use are so pure and fine, they are the same ones we used for the Epidermx. They remind me of Caribbean sand. I do a quick 10-20 second "scrub" massage really - a night. Once or twice a week I do a 40-60 second scrub because after using the Chrysalyx the next morning it is like my face is sucked into a vacuum - and having just turned 50 that is a good thing! Sometimes our under 30 customers say "my face feels tight" I tell them to do a shorter scrub. Nor do you have to pummel your face, just a quick gentle massage- it really isn't scrubbing - it is just a shorter easier word!

It is truly wonderful, some people get confused and assign this to oh- you can't do a microdermabrasion a night - or too much scrubbing. Our Plastic Surgeons found this out and passed it on and they are right! A quick, gentle scrub - does two fabulous things - it gently removes the junk that daily falls into your pores and it deposits anything you put on your skin afterwards deeper into the skin for absorption. The rest of the skin care industry hasn't figured this one out yet -

Miranets, great pick up on the base difference - the production is far more than mixing crystals with water , infact most anti-aging products when you make your own you don't know the sophistication in the production of these products. There is a reason why cosmetic chemists have PhD's . Most of the ingredients if not combined at the right time, temp or method negate each other.

Yes, Epidermx and Epidermx II contain essential oils and are developed to leave a "film" or residue on your skin - many of the ingredients have an antiseptic property which is one of many reasons why so many of our customers for years with skin conditions like Rosacea and Psoriasis and Excema Scleroderma - so many have had such great results. TheresaL I haven't in 7 years had anyone tell me they have had broken capillaries from Epidermx - I have had many people with Rosacea tell me their broken capillaries have been improved. Sometimes people combine products, have other experiences, go outside in the cold, pick their skin and think it is because of a product - and I could be wrong too.

Someone else asked about what when - yes, Chrysalyx first, then Naturdermx. If you want to use your essential oils or other oils use them after Naturdermx. By the way both Chrysalyx and Naturdermx are patent pending products. You can massage them in one at a time separately til each is absorbed. I personally mist my face with water then take a pearl size amount of Chrysalyx on my fingertip blend it in my palm and apply it to my eyes, neck everything; then I do the same thing with the Naturdermx and massage them in together. Yes, my entire regimen in the am is less than one minute at night about 1 1/2 minutes.
Forgive me someone thought the Naturdermx wasn't as smooth to apply? I haven't found that, I do mist my face. It is a light serum.

Skincareaddicted, sorry the Chrysalyx didn't meet your standards; not every line or product is for everyone. I was and still am totally blown away by it - if you look at the "Just the Facts" tab on the GreatNewSkin you will find listings of microdermabrasion cream products the non botox products and products like Chrysalyx - anyway the price of these products is right in the middle of what is in the market place. Compare them to what they really are - non-silicone natural based products of like, or to other similar products with inferior ingredients or the most expensive and they are a real value. Chrysalyx to me is the ultimate mutipurpose product with DMAE Alpha- Lipoic Acid (ALA) Hyaluronic Acid (HA) Ellagic Acid (from the Pomegranate) Ceramide III Vitamin A (I am not a fan of retinoids as research clearly shows they long term dry out the skin) Vitamin E Ester C Shea Mango Avocado and Cocoa butter and I think 14 organic botannicals and I love the scent,it reminds me of fresh ginger and lemon grass. Sometimes I think what doesn't it do. Our R&D dept threw out 200 formulations and it took them 7 years it actually won the best new natural product in Europe award during that time.

These are high end products designed to deliver targeted results. We offer package deals that are half off retail. Chrysalyx is still my favorite and I have never used any product that has given me facial firming like using it with Epidermx II or E2 as alot of you have affectionately named it - good one guys - we call it that too:-)

So sorry this is dreadfully long, I tried to answer your pages of questions. Wishing now that I had access to online while I was gone! If any of you are from NJ near NYC - the driving is not fun, I was a nervous wreck. Hoping I answered you all and I thank you so very much - Amy

free skin care · Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:00 pm

Wow, Amy, thank you for taking the time to write so much! I for one am really happy that you changed the formula for Epidermx. I had always heard of Epidermx, but I never bought it because I didn't like the idea of having to scrub my face for so long, you know? E2 is perfect--- just a quick scrub and my skin feels like silk. I'm really looking forward to trying your more intense moisturizer. If it's anything like your other products, I'm sure it will be a "must have" for me. I know it sounds corny, but I have the best skin of my life right now thanks to the Naturderm products, so I want to say a big "Thank You," Amy!

free skin care · Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:06 pm

amy, wow! thanks for all of the info. i actually have been using the e2 along with zenbiotic (which i had started first and is also a silicone free line Smile

) i understand that naturderm is acidic and zb is alkaline - i don't think i've noticed any adverse reactions with the combo? what should i be looking out for? right now, i've got another few months supply of zenbiotic products (which i do quite like), but perhaps i should stop using the e2 until i go through all of these and then maybe i can just try out the whole line of naturderm . . .

free skin care · Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:32 am

Amy, are you satisfied with the results you get from using the products around your eyes or do you think a dedicated eye product may be considered in the future?

free skin care · Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:24 am

Amy, I don't know chzzzcake, but I'm not so sure that they meant their post in an anti-Epidermx propaganda-type way. As a huge fan of the Epidermx Mk I, I too shared similar concerns - not so much about the product being watered down, but whether it would be as effective as my beloved original.

However, after trying the new Epidermx II over the last couple of weeks, I can honestly say that I've been won over. I really didn't expect it to perform as well as the original, but I actually think I now prefer the new one. It's still every bit as effective, but less messy, less time-consuming and easier to use.

The way I'm overcoming my concern about removing my fake tan is by massaging it in for 10 to 15 seconds daily whenever I don't wear facial fake tan. Then, when I am wearing fake tan, I only use the Epidermx inbetween fake tan applications - massaging it in for longer periods then to make up for non-daily use. Hope that makes sense.

Anyway, Epidermx II has now been added to HG status for me! Very Happy

free skin care · Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:28 am

** AMY! When's the lavender cleanser going to available for single purchase???!!! ** Or, better yet, as a package with the EpII?

I've/We've been very patiently waiting....

Still loving my EpII!

Marla

free skin care · Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:21 am

amy, thank you for all the info!
I have been using EpidermxII for about 2 weeks, I use it in the shower every other morning, rub it in for about 30 seconds, and that's it. My skin is amazing, It has not been this nice in so long. I don't know for sure why, but the Epidermx along with all natural/organic products I am sure helped. Thank you!
Amy

free skin care · Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:08 am

[i]

Hi guys, just a quickie here to thank you and get your questions!

manslayerliz - me too, and thank you so happy you are having dramatic results - truly. We are the first to use what I call mini-microdermabrasion as a tool to promote skin health. The Plastic Surgeons hit a home run and are right on the mark. When you do just a quick "scrub" (someone find me a better short word!) it gets the junk out and according to the docs can increase the absorption of anything applied after by up to 50% - and we are definitely hearing the same from customers.

sark - The issue with combining not just these products but any anti-aging product with an alkaline line is it will alter/decrease the effectiveness of the ingredients that are acidic. Many lines out there are great lines, pure natural ingredients, even some without silicones but only a very few fall into this category AND have the high-tech ingredients that really target. That is what my personal interest is - if I am going to do this it is for the science and the impact it can make for others.

bushy - great ?. Actually the combination of E2 and Chrysalyx gives me the best results I personally have had from an eye product. Anything we add has to bring something else to the table. We are working on a heavy duty eye product for extreme puffiness and dark circles and a skin lightener and some others:-)

majorb - I really appreciate your thoughts and thank you. There is a select group who "play customer" and make comments on boards. Computers are quite easy to track. So chzzzcake I apologize if you were pulled in. Speaks volumes when someone has to be negative about another company or product to market their own. E2 is looser, it is not runny, and again it is the same "looseness" as the batches after production of the original. It has a completely different feel, more like a serum based feel? Also great reminder about the tan - correct it will remove it - had a gal with eyebrow tattoos it took off and we have an amazing before and after tattoo removal photo - so just quickie scrubs if you are using any special product do it at night massage in your special product so it can really sink in and work for you while you are sleeping and the natural restorative processes of your body are happening.

marla - believe me noone wants it more than I! That Face Foam is amazing - the darn bottle lasts us 5-6 months! As soon as we can get it in label, everyone was screaming for it so we brought it in as a package. We just added a combo pack of E2, Chrysalyx and Naturdermx and of course the Basics, also called the Stretch Mark Buster is the E2 and Chrysalyx combo as you should get 2 1/2 to 3 months from them.

amylola - pleasure:-)

free skin care · Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:34 am

I just ordered EpidermxII and Chrysalyx to help with those acne scars that would never disappear no matter what I do. Also, I will try it on stretch marks on my bum...I am hoping for a miracle Pray

Well, at least after consistent use Embarassed

free skin care · Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:38 am

amy - so it seems like i'm not doing any damage by combining e2 and zenbiotic, but i might just not be getting the full benefits, right? my current routine, btw, is cleanse with the alkaline zb wash, exfoliate with e2, then use a glycolic treatment pad after, then wait 15 mins, then continue with the alkaline zb toner and moisturizer. after i finish up my current jar of e2, should i just hold off ordering more until i'm ready to try the whole naturderm line (i.e. after i finish up the zb products)?

free skin care · Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:39 am

Another Epidermx fan here! I used Epidermx I for a long time and now use Epidermx II. It works wonderful and it's nice to be able to use it daily if I choose to. Also, love the new scent!

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