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Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:30 pm  |
| I am very confused, just yesterday, a new member and owner of a body shop was helping people with questions regarding his products and pushing himself over the line by offering free samples on the thread, so a few of us, posted that it prob was not ok. But after reading thru tons of posts last nite, even I am confused. Some on here work very hard to help out where they can and not self promote, ie. Darren of PSF and Candy of Candessence, while others just throw caution to the wind and sell away!! I feel its very unfair of any of us to slap one and not the others. So are there really any rules regarding this? So Justin, I apologize if I told you, you couldn't post something that seems to be ok. This entire place is getting awfully confusing and I am more than sure I've contributed to this, so I am taking a break from all this. |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:38 pm |
Yep, I find it all a bit confusing myself.  |
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50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:41 pm |
| Just want to bump. I find it soooooo confusing. |
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40, fair skinned, dark hair, blue eyes |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:51 pm |
| For that matter, what of entrepreneurs who come to this forum and then tell members who ask unwelcome questions that they are not allowed to buy their product? They are free to sell to whomever they please, but I'd prefer if the discrimination were kept off of the forum... |
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27, sensitive/reactive/acne prone skin, dark brown hair, blue eyes, possibly the palest woman alive... |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:03 pm |
Things are getting a little wild out there! >  |
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Age 41; Oily; Acne prone; Resilient; Currently loving Tazorac, Kate Somerville ExfoliKate and Deep Tissue Repair; Bobbi Brown Hydrating Eye Cream |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:43 pm |
| manslayerliz wrote: |
| For that matter, what of entrepreneurs who come to this forum and then tell members who ask unwelcome questions that they are not allowed to buy their product? They are free to sell to whomever they please, but I'd prefer if the discrimination were kept off of the forum... |
I normally don't get too bugged by the selfpromotion as the Mods usually step in before things get really hairy, but the threads that Liz and MelissaMarie refer to really rubbed me the wrong way.
I understand that it's almost impossible for entrepreneurs to separate themselves from their products and that it's hard to not take criticism of their products personally. But...if there's someone who really can't take the heat, they really should stay out of the fire, KWIM?
One of the things that I love about this forum is that we're free to ask questions, rave or rant about a certain product. I feel that 99% of the time, this is done with respect and humor. I don't recall anybody on those threads *bashing* a product, but I do recall the owners/creators get really defensive about some questions/comments.
It's really sad when the claws come out when a few people ask for an ingredients list, ask for the science behind a product or state that they had problems with a product -- all perfectly valid requests or statements.
After all, there's ALWAYS going to be that GREAT product that everybody loves but *my* skin HATES.
Why the fighting???
Marla  |
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Age 41; Oily; Acne prone; Resilient; Currently loving Tazorac, Kate Somerville ExfoliKate and Deep Tissue Repair; Bobbi Brown Hydrating Eye Cream |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:52 pm |
| bump. I find it confusing, too. |
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35, combination skin, post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation at the slightest blemish + stubborn blackheads on nose. Ignoramus about skincare--hence the litany of skincare woes. Here to learn, and grateful for help. |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:12 pm |
Yes, this is something that I find a little odd too. I know that several vendors have been warned when their posts even approach product promotion. I believe one member is even being cautioned about her posts offering to buy purchase products for members at a discounted rate. If other members cannot self-promote, why is this one person allowed to freely promote their products? I'm quite confused by this, and I'm assuming the mods have just not read the thread. I'm not sure how that works.
I believe my comments on that particular thread may have upset some members whom I like very much.  Maybe I should just learn to keep my mouth shut. I will no longer post on that particular thread, but I will continue to watch it with interest. |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:15 pm |
I think it's tough...I mean...it's nice to ask people questions about their products, like CareKate, Candessence, Best Bath Store, etc. I like get my answers "directly from the source."
It's rather obnoxious, however, when skincare people who sell products join the forum solely to push their own products. But if someone who is active in the forum in other ways happens to sell skincare/body care/etc. I don't see the harm in them being allowed to talk about their products.
I think where people get defensive is when someone comes on here, claims that their product will be effective for everyone, buy my stuff, "if my product can't help you, nothing can" approach, it really turns everyone off because THAT is what we want to stay away from...hype.
Perhaps it's come time for moderators to lay down some rules...now that more and more people are finding the forum and it is growing by leaps and bounds by the day, there might need to be rules...
What it all comes down to, IMHO, is spam. We do NOT want the boards spammed by marketers, promoters, and companies. If I opened up one of the forums and all I saw were product endorsements, sales pitches, etc. it would get annoying, and I know we all don't want this.
Le sigh.
I heart you all. |
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32, Fair Skin, combo/break-out prone. Simple routine of REN No. 1 Purity Cleansing Balm and Argan oil as a moisturizer; Clarisonic when needed. That's it! |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:26 pm |
I think there's discrimination too though. Is it ok to PM a member who was inquiring about one product in general from one company and saying you have the item in stock and can sell it to them?
i find that EDS members are hard on new vendors who didn't start out as EDS members before their products/line were known. I feel kinda sorry for these vendors even if they are often evading questions about their products. I just don't think the members here would treat longer EDS members who also sell skin products like they do the new vendor/members. |
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about to hit my 40s, retin-a user, differin, LRP |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:35 pm |
I think there's a big difference between someone who is a member and participates in all kinds of discussions, whether or not they're related to what they happen to sell, and people who are vendors who come here to market their product and nothing else.
I have less of a problem with a vendor who says I sell this, I'm proud of it, and I'd like you try it, then I do with people who pretend to be impartial promotors.
I don't really care one way or the other, but I do think if EDS has a policy, it should be uniform. |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:35 pm |
Some vendors you like, some vendors you don't....it will always be that way...In addition to that, I'm sure that there are silent members who ARE vendors and who are here to promote (however delicately) a specific product. I think everyone including vendors should be allowed on the Board (I, however, would hope that they would be honest enough to identify themselves accordingly - which I think is one of the EDS rules). I would have a HUGE problem with banning/scolding/giving the gears to XX individual because some people consider him/her to be shamelessly self-promotional. If someone is offensive or crossing the line, the moderators will take care of it. If I thought someone was breaking a rule - I wouldn't send them a message telling them so(I'm not the moderator)- and you'll just get yourself into a kafuffle (is that a word?!  ) and who needs that?. I'd just send a note to the moderator. If the person is breaking EDS rules we'll find out soon enough - (I've never known EDS moderators to go slack on these things - I'm sure you all remember Mabsy's last "announcement"  ). Personally, I'd be ECSTATIC to get a rep from, lets say, Cellex C AND another from Skinceuticals on the Board to battle out the Vitamin C stability question (WUHOOOOO!)...Lets face it, we'd be diving all over that thread! (the server would probably crash! )I don't think we should limit anyone. If someone works for a company and they recommend their product through the course of a legitimate thread - great! If the moderator thinks that the thread is unacceptable it will likely get reported and then zapped, The End. Anyways, we know that they represent the company and so we take the recommendation with that understanding in mind, right?. The more info I can get my mitts on, the merrier I am! Bring on the vendors!! (just no advertising - but I'll take coupons any day!! )
Pudoodles |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:42 pm |
| ParisTroika wrote: |
| people who sell products join the forum solely to push their own products. But if someone who is active in the forum in other ways happens to sell skincare/body care/etc. |
Wow ... I've been knocking my head because I FELT there were differences but couldn't put my finger on it ... that's it exactly. |
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mid 40's, Hawaiian/Japanese, combo skin, med/dark complexion. "If life hands you lemons, throw them at your enemies" |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:51 pm |
| I am all for anyone being able to sell their products, or no one at all. I am just confused on what the real policy is, I understood it too be no self promoting, yet everyday there it is, every week a new ones coming on and they get slammed (even by me) and told they can't, while we ignore the others. I keep getting asked why they can't and others can and honestly I don't have an answer. I used Darren and Candy as examples of two who sell products that alot of us like but they do not self promote, they walk a fine line and it can't be easy for them. They've proven it can be done. I meant and mean no offense to anyone. I am just at a loss on how to answer a simple question that is being asked more and more lately. |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:05 pm |
IMO, a forum is so that people can come together and ask questions, share opinions, impressions, and experiences. People who are on the forum solely to promote their own products obviously have a different agenda. I also believe that anyone on the forum should be able to express doubts about any vendor or any product, just as they should be able to praise any product or vendor. A couple of the threads on here are really starting to pi** me off.
We can't have a big love fest for every vendor out there because some of them are dishonest. This is why EDS has the forum. If all products were legit and worked well for every individual, there'd be no need for a forum at all. We don't know which ones are dishonest, but I think if a members have suspicions about a vendor, perhaps other members should regard it as an attempt to keep them from getting taken advantage of rather than an attacked on a beloved friend (said vendor). I have a friend who just got taken for about $3,000. It was her own fault, but I can't help but think she would have appreciated it if someone has said, "Hey, are you sure this is legit?"
I definitely agree that Candy and Darren are very good about following forum rules. |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:16 pm |
| Rjez wrote: |
| ParisTroika wrote: |
| people who sell products join the forum solely to push their own products. But if someone who is active in the forum in other ways happens to sell skincare/body care/etc. |
Wow ... I've been knocking my head because I FELT there were differences but couldn't put my finger on it ... that's it exactly. |
That is exactly what I was looking for too.
I wouldn't want loads of sellers clogging up the forum trying to sell their various wares.
I do buy from Carrie - that is for a couple of reasons - she is an established member of the forum who shares her recipes and her advice willingly. I don't feel she is a member solely to promote her own products.
Sheonly charges me what it costs to ship to Australia - quite rare in a seller these days.
Oh and her products are great.  |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:56 pm |
| I think the incidence that you're referring to is different than the nature of Candy and Darren's behaviour. That incident involved the talk of body shop and the person used the topic to promote their samples. Darren and Candy, however, come on to the forum and enter discussion of topics involving THEIR products to help. Their answers are to explain but not all out promoting. And I am more comfortable with that. |
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20's: rare pimples and oily T-zone..annoying little blackhead buggers on nose |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:07 pm |
I think it becomes a bit blurry and confusing when a vendor has been notified by a forum member that a thread has been started on their product and then asked/pressed into posting here which then volleys into these longer threads where they are continually trying to answer everyone's questions. I really feel bad for the vendor when it then starts to turn tense, ugly or disrespectful especially since they are accommodating the forum members that are so excited and who have clearly been communicating with them all along. In these cases, as the threads evolve, I think it then becomes even more difficult to maintain balance on the support versus self-promotional front.
Just my two cents worth... |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:17 pm |
| havana8 wrote: |
I think it becomes a bit blurry and confusing when a vendor has been notified by a forum member that a thread has been started on their product and then asked/pressed into posting here which then volleys into these longer threads where they are continually trying to answer everyone's questions. I really feel bad for the vendor when it then starts to turn tense, ugly or disrespectful especially since they are accommodating the forum members that are so excited and who have clearly been communicating with them all along. In these cases, as the threads evolve, I think it then becomes even more difficult to maintain balance on the support versus self-promotional front.
Just my two cents worth... |
I understand your point, but I believe that most vendors are familiar with forum rules forbdding self-promotion, as this is pretty common in forums. I've seen several vendors handle this by appearing on the thread, stating that forum rules forbid their participation on certain levels, and inviting those who have questions to contact them via other methods.
As a person who is selling a product - ANY product, you must be prepared to field questions about said product at any given point in time. You must also have skin thick enough to not get your feelings hurt when people ask questions. Just my opinion. |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:58 pm |
| havana8 wrote: |
| and then asked/pressed into posting here which then volleys into these longer threads where they are continually trying to answer everyone's questions. |
I'm not sure she was asked to join. I dunno. Personally, I sort of didn't want her to see my posts because I knew she would have issues.
| Tosca wrote: |
| I understand your point, but I believe that most vendors are familiar with forum rules forbdding self-promotion, as this is pretty common in forums. |
I have a feeling this vendor is not as used to the Internet and forums? Again, I dunno. Just seems like she didn't expect to be questioned.
| Tosca wrote: |
| As a person who is selling a product - ..... You must also have skin thick enough to not get your feelings hurt when people ask questions. Just my opinion. |
Yup, that's true. Again, I don't think she was prepared to receive EDS-type questions. She was probably expecting the usual about application and colors. She really had no idea how serious we take our products. Thankfully, it's contained to one thread. Unfortunately, she does need to look outside her feelings to understand that these questions WILL come up if she expects to keep marketing. Five years of research? I'm in medical - that's nothing to me.
Overall though - I've been really happy with this board and vendors. I've posted positive and negative on pretty much every product I've ever purchased (nothing is perfect). When I've posted negatives - the vendor has contacted me privately. I love that. It doesn't have to be public drama. |
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mid 40's, Hawaiian/Japanese, combo skin, med/dark complexion. "If life hands you lemons, throw them at your enemies" |
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Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:52 am |
Darling?!
| Rjez wrote: |
| havana8 wrote: |
| and then asked/pressed into posting here which then volleys into these longer threads where they are continually trying to answer everyone's questions. |
I'm not sure she was asked to join. I dunno. Personally, I sort of didn't want her to see my posts because I knew she would have issues.
| Tosca wrote: |
| I understand your point, but I believe that most vendors are familiar with forum rules forbdding self-promotion, as this is pretty common in forums. |
I have a feeling this vendor is not as used to the Internet and forums? Again, I dunno. Just seems like she didn't expect to be questioned.
| Tosca wrote: |
| As a person who is selling a product - ..... You must also have skin thick enough to not get your feelings hurt when people ask questions. Just my opinion. |
Yup, that's true. Again, I don't think she was prepared to receive EDS-type questions. She was probably expecting the usual about application and colors. She really had no idea how serious we take our products. Thankfully, it's contained to one thread. Unfortunately, she does need to look outside her feelings to understand that these questions WILL come up if she expects to keep marketing. Five years of research? I'm in medical - that's nothing to me.
Overall though - I've been really happy with this board and vendors. I've posted positive and negative on pretty much every product I've ever purchased (nothing is perfect). When I've posted negatives - the vendor has contacted me privately. I love that. It doesn't have to be public drama. |
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Über-oily,semi-sensitive, warm/fair-skinned redhead, 38...Will swap/shop for members outside U.S. and/or make homemade skincare products upon demand-PM me for details. |
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Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:38 am |
After thinking on this I might actually have a pretty simple solution.
1. If your a member and are inviting a vendor to participate in an existing thread regarding their product, explain to them that there is a thin line in self promoting and advise they read the rules before posting.
2. If your an existing memeber and sell a product(s), re-read the rules and just follow them.
Sounds easy enough to me and that way, we don't need to personally bash any vendor for not knowing the rules, if they cross the line, we do have power in just ignoring the posts and or not buying the product. |
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Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:39 am |
| MelissaMarie wrote: |
After thinking on this I might actually have a pretty simple solution.
1. If your a member and are inviting a vendor to participate in an existing thread regarding their product, explain to them that there is a thin line in self promoting and advise they read the rules before posting.
2. If your an existing memeber and sell a product(s), re-read the rules and just follow them.
Sounds easy enough to me and that way, we don't need to personally bash any vendor for not knowing the rules, if they cross the line, we do have power in just ignoring the posts and or not buying the product. |
Perfect, I second this! |
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27~Texas~Oily~ fair~ breakout prone~ easily congested~Cysts caused by emotional stress~ Using Ayurvedic skin care and philosophy~ Dry brushing body and face~ On strict less is more routine~ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars~ Oscar Wilde |
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Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:49 am |
| Pudoodles wrote: |
| Personally, I'd be ECSTATIC to get a rep from, lets say, Cellex C AND another from Skinceuticals on the Board to battle out the Vitamin C stability question (WUHOOOOO!)...Lets face it, we'd be diving all over that thread! (the server would probably crash! ) I don't think we should limit anyone. If someone works for a company and they recommend their product through the course of a legitimate thread - great! If the moderator thinks that the thread is unacceptable it will likely get reported and then zapped, The End. Anyways, we know that they represent the company and so we take the recommendation with that understanding in mind, right?. The more info I can get my mitts on, the merrier I am! Bring on the vendors!! (just no advertising - but I'll take coupons any day!! ) |
Best post of the week so far!
I'd definitely pay good money to see a couple of vendors duke it out here on EDS over their like formulations. Heck, we could all do the blind-testing for them and report back. ("Hi. My name is Essentia, and I'm a samples whore.")
"Kerfuffle" is the word, I think, you're looking for?? |
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Be informed. Very informed. |
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Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:23 am |
| carekate wrote: |
| Darling?! |
yeah, okay, that got annoying fast but I just figured that's her way of talking. |
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mid 40's, Hawaiian/Japanese, combo skin, med/dark complexion. "If life hands you lemons, throw them at your enemies" |
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