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Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:29 pm  |
riley - I PM'd you  |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:53 pm |
I just did my first roll! 
No numbing cream... two glasses of wine and determination for rejuvenation 
I then applied aloe vera gel -and I am getting ready to grab another glass of wine! I am cleaning my roller with hydrogen peroxide (is this ok?)
I don't think I went deep but OMG does it hurt  ! My face is absolutely beet red, and there are a few droplets of blood. I don' think I spent over 5 minutes on my whole face (what a whimp  )
Will have to order the emla cream (where is it good to order from?).
I am happy that my face is so iincredibly red- I am hoping this means I did "something" (any thoughts from veterans?).
Thanks! |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:35 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
All I can say is WOW!!! 
I decided to do a targeted roll just on my forehead and neck lines (which are both painful for me), and I put the EMLA on one and the Derm stuff on the other...there is NO comparison. The derm stuff (see formula above) is about as close to rolling dead/nerveless skin as I can imagine!
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So, what does this stuff retail for? Are you ready to become a supplier?  |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:43 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| I have a hard time believing that a medical roll could be $3k more effective than what I am putting myself through tonight! |
For the curious and the doubters, this is a pic of AFTER I have cleaned the majority of the blood off so that I can continue the roll...
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Damn it, this means I can't possibly be pressing hard enough. I just used my 1mm 3-line on my 11's and marionette lines for the first time this past Tuesday and was pleasantly surprised at how good (meaning, undamaged) my skin looked the next day. Some redness, mild flaking/peeling, but really not that noticeable - nothing like I was expecting. This was my first "real" roll, with longer needles than .25mm, so I wasn't sure how bad it would be. I guess I'll have to step it up a notch next time.
Even though I've rolled before with the .25, it was SO disconcerting to be using this thing on my face... I was very squeamish and had to force myself to really press it. Even though I was completely numb (thankyou, Emla), perhaps I was holding back more than I thought.
I'm also probably going to need a 1.5 
*sigh* |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:44 pm |
| Neenersan wrote: |
I just thought I'd tell you that I ordered a 1.5 Dr. Roller from dr-roller.eu and it only cost $69 and that includes shipping. According to the email I just received I should have it by Nov. 22. Thanks Mishey, for the link.
I'm going on the HCG diet this week for 23 days (hopefully it won't take a second round) then I'm going to start rolling. By the end of the year I should look like I did when I was 30. Okay, maybe not 30, but I sure won't look like an overweight 62-year-old great grandma like I do now. Don't get me wrong...I don't mind being a great grandma...I just don't want to look like one.
By the way, bethany, where did you get the ingredients for your numbing formula? Can I just get them from my friendly, neighborhood CVS pharmacy? |
No problem Neenersan.
Wow a great grandmother at 62. That's wonderful.
Bethany what a sight! You've now inspired me to give the ice the heave ho and get some numbing cream. There's no way I could do that with ice alone. Have your last few rolls been near to that level of blood? And is there any way of getting those ingredients without prescription. There's no way my doc will agree with me poking my skin for beauty that's for sure. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:48 pm |
Oh and one more thing Beth. How long do you think It'll be before you'd be able to show the area in public?
It looks like a while to me. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:51 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
bthany - that was quite a roll. does your face turn out like that as well??
I have not produced anything like that at all yet. I will the next time tho, now that I have some Emla.
As far as 'cleaning up' the blood post roll - have you tried saline soaked guaze pads afterwards? I thought I read that somewhere.
Oh - and can I ask? How old are you? (You have a nice, young looking neck) |
My face does indeed look like that....I had blood dripping off my face onto my chest. I usually wipe as I go with cotton pads soaked with Bactine...otherwise I wouldn't be able to erally see what I am rolling.
The saline and gauze pads are definitely mentioned as a post-roll treatment to help clean up the serous ooze in one of the dermarolling articles. Once I am done rolling, I spend about 30 minutes in the shower under tepid water rinsing off the blood and flushing out the wounds.
And my neck (and the rest of me) is 42...the only neck issue I have is 2 tree trunk rings, sigh. I am focusing on those and my forehead lines at the moment...I hope with lots of dedication and the 1.5mm 3Line that I can get rid of them to some degree. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:52 pm |
| boski wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
Bleeding is actually an important part of the process:
| Quote: |
..when thousands or tens of thousands of fine pricks are placed close to each other and one gets a field effect, because the bleeding is virtually confluent. This promotes the normal post-traumatic release of growth factors and infiltration of fibroblasts. This reaction is automatic and produces a surge of activity that inevitably leads to the fibroblasts being ‘‘instructed’’ to produce more collagen and elastin. The collagen is laid down in the upper dermis just below the basal layer of the epidermis.
http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf |
I wonder if the intensity of my rolls and the resulting blood is part of the reason I have had such great results?  |
I think it's a good possibility, more blood=better results. The blood itself has many components that promote the collagen and elastin growth. I've been reading, off and on, this thread about injecting autologous or your own blood into acne scars to correct them. It has to be fresh, non-coagulated blood, so you get a syringe, draw out blood from yourself and reinject into the scars immediately. It's free and there is no chance of an allergic reaction. You have to use sterile technique and be willing to poke yourself and have a red spot on your face for a week or so though. You essentially are replicating hematomas, similar to what you are doing by running the roller over and over your skin and creating the excessive bleeding. This bulgarian doctor has been posting about it on acne.org. He seems to know what he is talking about. I see no reason why it wouldn't work on wrinkles as well. So your theory may be right.
Here's the doctor's thread:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Autologous-Blood-Injectio-t202694.html |
I will definitely have to check that out...thanks! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:57 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| I wonder if the intensity of my rolls and the resulting blood is part of the reason I have had such great results? |
Probably that, and, your pre- and post-roll skin care routine. I'm really glad to already have the 302 A and C Boost on hand (though I wonder if I should get the Lightning drops for post-roll application...); I'm hoping that will increase my odds of getting similar results. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:57 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
All I can say is WOW!!!
I decided to do a targeted roll just on my forehead and neck lines (which are both painful for me), and I put the EMLA on one and the Derm stuff on the other...there is NO comparison. The derm stuff (see formula above) is about as close to rolling dead/nerveless skin as I can imagine!
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So, what does this stuff retail for? Are you ready to become a supplier? |
This was something that my dermatologist had made up for usage in his clinic, though I have no idea what he was numbing with it. I got 2 little tubs from his PA...both had expired, and one had liquified and run all over the bag (I don't dare use that one).
I am going to BEG her for the rest of the samples or a fresh prescription...if I get an Rx, I'll let you know what it costs. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:04 pm |
| Mishey wrote: |
Bethany what a sight! You've now inspired me to give the ice the heave ho and get some numbing cream. There's no way I could do that with ice alone. Have your last few rolls been near to that level of blood? And is there any way of getting those ingredients without prescription. There's no way my doc will agree with me poking my skin for beauty that's for sure. |
That level of blood is about half of what I see when rolling, because I have to wipe the area down in order to see and finish the roll.
The bleeding isn't new, but the volume has increased during my last few rolls since I started using Retin A or a retinol product every day. My face, neck, chest and hands bleed heavily...my arms and breasts do not.
I do not know if one can get those levels on a non Rx basis, but it may be possible outside the US. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:08 pm |
| Mishey wrote: |
Oh and one more thing Beth. How long do you think It'll be before you'd be able to show the area in public?
It looks like a while to me. |
It does indeed take a while...2-3 days or so before the swelling recedes, and then I still look like I have significant sunburn for a few more days. I also get bruised areas under my eyes, and those usually take 5 days to completely go away.
Fortunately, I work at home. And the kids at the sandwich shop I go to every day are used to it now, lol. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:43 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| I wonder if the intensity of my rolls and the resulting blood is part of the reason I have had such great results? |
Probably that, and, your pre- and post-roll skin care routine. I'm really glad to already have the 302 A and C Boost on hand (though I wonder if I should get the Lightning drops for post-roll application...); I'm hoping that will increase my odds of getting similar results. |
I completely agree with you about the pre- and post-roll protocol. Dr. Fernandes made it very clear that Vit A and Vit C are critical to the success of the procedure....he REQUIRES pre-treatment with Vit A before he will do a medical roll.
That's why people who are not willing to read up on the process and understand how it REALLY works shouldn't expect great results.
| Quote: |
Preparing the skin
To achieve youthful skin, one needs the skin to be functionally as young as possible. Most patients coming for rejuvenation have photoaging and this needs to be addressed before attempting any PCI. Photoaging not only is due to the actual ultraviolet damage of dermal tissues but also is the result of a chronic deficiency of vitamin A. [5] The first step toward skin health is to topically replace photosensitive vitamin A [6] and the other antioxidants vitamins C and E and carotenoids, which are normally lost on exposure to light. Vitamin A is utterly essential for the normal physiology of skin and yet it is destroyed by exposure to light so that it is prevented from exerting its important influence on skin and preserving collagen. Vitamin A is believed to control between 350 to 1000 genes that control normal function, proliferation, and differentiation of cells. One cannot exaggerate the value of vitamin A in a rejuvenation program for skin, especially with PCI, because in this case, we are specifically trying to stimulate cells to induce collagen to their maximum. Vitamin A in physiologic doses will stimulate cell growth, the release of growth factors, angiogenesis [7], and the production of healthy new collagen. The DNA effects of vitamin A interact in parallel with the growth factors released by PCI. Adequate nourishment of the skin with vitamin A (not necessarily as retinoic acid but also as retinyl esters, retinal, or retinaldehyde) will ensure that the metabolic processes for collagen production will be maximized and the skin will heal as rapidly as possible.
Vitamin C is similarly important for collagen formation but is destroyed by exposure to blue light. Both of these vitamins need to be replaced every day so that the natural protection and repair of DNA can be maintained. As a result, the skin will take on a more youthful appearance. The addition of palmitoyl pentapeptide or other similar peptides also will ensure that better collagen will be formed.
Technique of percutaneous collagen induction
The skin is routinely prepared by using topical vitamin A and C and antioxidants for at least 3 weeks, but preferably for 3 months if the skin is very sun damaged.
http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:45 pm |
I mentioned that my derm had compounded a formula containing benzocaine (20%), lidocaine (10%), tetracaine (4%), and had not used them for some reason.
This article may explain why...the FDA does not want compounding pharmacies to be mixing up such creams because there were a couple of deaths related to the usage of the creams.
http://www.usrecallnews.com/2006/12/fda-crackdown-on-compounded-topical-local-anesthetic-cream.html
My derm did say to ONLY use it in very small amounts...you do NOT want to cover large portions of your body with this stuff. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:31 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
I mentioned that my derm had compounded a formula containing benzocaine (20%), lidocaine (10%), tetracaine (4%), and had not used them for some reason.
This article may explain why...the FDA does not want compounding pharmacies to be mixing up such creams because there were a couple of deaths related to the usage of the creams.
http://www.usrecallnews.com/2006/12/fda-crackdown-on-compounded-topical-local-anesthetic-cream.html
My derm did say to ONLY use it in very small amounts...you do NOT want to cover large portions of your body with this stuff. |
So what on earth do med spas use when doing Rx rolling? |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:47 pm |
All I can say, after seeing that picture, Bethany is...
OMG!!
You are one tough cookie... (No wonder you have to take the girls out for drinks first!!  ) |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:57 pm |
| taobunny wrote: |
All I can say, after seeing that picture, Bethany is...
OMG!!
You are one tough cookie... (No wonder you have to take the girls out for drinks first!! ) |
I should honestly consider having a medical roll...I think it would be FAR cheaper in the long run!
I have to pay for The Girls' drinks even with the numbing cream, because I don't like the popping sound the needles make as they pierce my skin. And apparently after I finished up my roll and shower last night, I did some online shopping that I don't even remember!
If I wasn't seeing such fabulous results, I would NOT be doing this crap...it is pure torture for me, mentally AND physically, sigh.  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:09 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| taobunny wrote: |
All I can say, after seeing that picture, Bethany is...
OMG!!
You are one tough cookie... (No wonder you have to take the girls out for drinks first!! ) |
I should honestly consider having a medical roll...I think it would be FAR cheaper in the long run!
I have to pay for The Girls' drinks even with the numbing cream, because I don't like the popping sound the needles make as they pierce my skin. And apparently after I finished up my roll and shower last night, I did some online shopping that I don't even remember!
If I wasn't seeing such fabulous results, I would NOT be doing this crap...it is pure torture for me, mentally AND physically, sigh. |
Oh dear, methinks I may rethink this |
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:22 pm |
| arya2 wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| taobunny wrote: |
All I can say, after seeing that picture, Bethany is...
OMG!!
You are one tough cookie... (No wonder you have to take the girls out for drinks first!! ) |
I should honestly consider having a medical roll...I think it would be FAR cheaper in the long run!
I have to pay for The Girls' drinks even with the numbing cream, because I don't like the popping sound the needles make as they pierce my skin. And apparently after I finished up my roll and shower last night, I did some online shopping that I don't even remember!
If I wasn't seeing such fabulous results, I would NOT be doing this crap...it is pure torture for me, mentally AND physically, sigh. |
Oh dear, methinks I may rethink this |
My results have been far better than I could have ever imagined, so I think you should go for it. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:35 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| And apparently after I finished up my roll and shower last night, I did some online shopping that I don't even remember! |
That's hilarious! |
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Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:05 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| arya2 wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| taobunny wrote: |
All I can say, after seeing that picture, Bethany is...
OMG!!
You are one tough cookie... (No wonder you have to take the girls out for drinks first!! ) |
I should honestly consider having a medical roll...I think it would be FAR cheaper in the long run!
I have to pay for The Girls' drinks even with the numbing cream, because I don't like the popping sound the needles make as they pierce my skin. And apparently after I finished up my roll and shower last night, I did some online shopping that I don't even remember!
If I wasn't seeing such fabulous results, I would NOT be doing this crap...it is pure torture for me, mentally AND physically, sigh. |
Oh dear, methinks I may rethink this |
My results have been far better than I could have ever imagined, so I think you should go for it. |
Yes, I probably will go for since I've already ordered the rollers. Besides there's nothing quite like a graphic picture of a bloodied body to lure me into yet another skin care toy!
But something did pop into my mind in the middle of the night, when all my best ideas surface. Considering that you admit it is a torturous process for you & no wonder, have you considered also investing some $ into self hypnosis? I'm serious. This suggestion is based on the experience of a friend of my ex's mother. This lady was one of those wealthy but very bored & neglected wives we read about who took to the bottle. After several unsuccessful & varied attempts to address her * spam alert *, she finally found relief in self hypnosis.
It seems tho' that pain reduction is an even more appropriate problem for this type of therapy & might be worth investigating. After all, you are a Master Investigator. And if the benefits are minimal or no pain, saving time in searching for an effective numbing cream not to mention the $ buying it and vino while still achieving the rolling results you want, it seems a no brainer.
I have close to me a Wellness Centre featuring homeopathic treatments, reiki etc, along with hypnotherapy. Am sure such centres abound in Florida.
What do you think? |
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Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:37 am |
| arya2 wrote: |
But something did pop into my mind in the middle of the night, when all my best ideas surface. Considering that you admit it is a torturous process for you & no wonder, have you considered also investing some $ into self hypnosis? I'm serious. This suggestion is based on the experience of a friend of my ex's mother. This lady was one of those wealthy but very bored & neglected wives we read about who took to the bottle. After several unsuccessful & varied attempts to address her * spam alert *, she finally found relief in self hypnosis.
It seems tho' that pain reduction is an even more appropriate problem for this type of therapy & might be worth investigating. After all, you are a Master Investigator. And if the benefits are minimal or no pain, saving time in searching for an effective numbing cream not to mention the $ buying it and vino while still achieving the rolling results you want, it seems a no brainer.
I have close to me a Wellness Centre featuring homeopathic treatments, reiki etc, along with hypnotherapy. Am sure such centres abound in Florida.
What do you think? |
I actually have a number of self hypnosis tapes, but nothing that deals with pain....that is a very interesting idea!
However, due to the The New Job From Hell, I seriously doubt that I could effectively be hypnotized. But I may still look into that....I am all for reducing the dependence on the wine and the numbing drugs!! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:54 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| arya2 wrote: |
It seems tho' that pain reduction is an even more appropriate problem for this type of therapy & might be worth investigating. After all, you are a Master Investigator. And if the benefits are minimal or no pain, saving time in searching for an effective numbing cream not to mention the $ buying it and vino while still achieving the rolling results you want, it seems a no brainer. |
I actually have a number of self hypnosis tapes, but nothing that deals with pain....that is a very interesting idea!
However, due to the The New Job From Hell, I seriously doubt that I could effectively be hypnotized. But I may still look into that....I am all for reducing the dependence on the wine and the numbing drugs!! |
Then again, pain causation can lead to increased endorphin activity - so, maybe it's a good thing to have endorphins in conjunction with the Job-From-Hell...
If the endorphins don't kick in in time - you could always show them your skeery picture, Bethany... I'm sure your co-workers would back away very slowly if you show them the picture and say "Look, this is what I do to MYSELF - just imagine what I could do to YOU whilst in the grips of a bad mood!" |
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Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:26 pm |
| taobunny wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| arya2 wrote: |
It seems tho' that pain reduction is an even more appropriate problem for this type of therapy & might be worth investigating. After all, you are a Master Investigator. And if the benefits are minimal or no pain, saving time in searching for an effective numbing cream not to mention the $ buying it and vino while still achieving the rolling results you want, it seems a no brainer. |
I actually have a number of self hypnosis tapes, but nothing that deals with pain....that is a very interesting idea!
However, due to the The New Job From Hell, I seriously doubt that I could effectively be hypnotized. But I may still look into that....I am all for reducing the dependence on the wine and the numbing drugs!! |
Then again, pain causation can lead to increased endorphin activity - so, maybe it's a good thing to have endorphins in conjunction with the Job-From-Hell...
If the endorphins don't kick in in time - you could always show them your skeery picture, Bethany... I'm sure your co-workers would back away very slowly if you show them the picture and say "Look, this is what I do to MYSELF - just imagine what I could do to YOU whilst in the grips of a bad mood!" |
Ahhh, but then Bethany would be promptly arrested for uttering threats and quite likely locked away in a loony bin for believing to be a 14C saint, flagellating herself in the name of purity.
We'd lose all her knowledge and expertise about all manner of skin care potions, toys and god knows what else. No, Beth, DON'T DO IT. |
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Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:39 pm |
dear lord Bethany- I have not checked in with you in a few months and YIKES!!!! I do have the video for Flex Effect.......Need to pull it out of the drawer and start doing it.
I think I am sticking with my baby needle from L & R, Retin A, Vitamin C, Injections of Radiesse and calling it a day. Maybe no pain no gain but all I can say is YIKES. |
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