DermaRoller
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free skin care · Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:13 am

vivre wrote:

Kay2008 wrote:

I found it!!! after reading the last God knows how many pages of this thread Laughing

I'm glad you found the recipe....I use the L ascorbic acid water soluble recipe but I make it fresh every two-three days and I no longer bother with the glycerin...I use one part powder to ten parts distilled water and I add a capsule of vitamin E to help preserve the mixture. From my recollection the DIY recipe calls for something like 5 parts water..5 parts glycerin..1 part L Ascorbic acid powder. I personally lost all my notes when my hard drive crashed last week..Sorry I could not help you with the thread...

Hi vivre,

I just wanted to ask them if it would be ok just to use the Ascorbic Acid instead of the L-ascorbic Acid - as I am having a hard time finding it here in the UK. I didn't want to buy the Ascorbic Acid and it be a waste of time!

No problem! Luckily I found it... not intentionally either, I just thought I'd browse through quite a few pages that were posted before I joined and managed to come across someone posting the link.

Barefootgirl wrote:

I have read this entire thread (took my longer than many books I have read! Smile

I am trying to better understand the concept of beneficial vs. harmful inflammation.

Some posts advise against anti-inflammatories after rolling since inflammation is part of the triggering of the mechanisms involved in collagen rebuilding.

Others advise against too much inflammation since it is counterproductive, I assume because inflammation can trigger free radicals and the oxidative process.

So, many are trying to hit the point of just the right amount of inflammation where it is beneficial, but not counterproductive.

I am wondering how the rollers here know when they have reached the point of just enough? some discomfort, some redness, some peeling but not excessively? what do each of you consider to be excessive - personally?

Thanks, BF

Very good question/post! I am interested in seeing what replies you get to this... as I myself have thought similar.

...

I am just doing experiments at the moment. I have soooo many stretch marks I have alot to "test" with lol. The other day I rolled a stretch mark on the left side of my stomach, that was my first go... I felt it didn't go too well. Lastnight I decided to roll a slightly larger stretch mark on the right side of my stomach, this time I rolled harder and feel I did apply enough pressure (for 1 monthly rolls). I did get about 3 or 4 TINY specs of blood. I applied my Retin A gel (ordered some cream from ADC, just waiting for it to arrive)... and today it's slightly peeling.

free skin care · Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:55 pm

Kay2008 wrote:

Hi,

Has anyone got the thread saved that gives the DIY info on making your own Vit C spray/serum?

I can't even remember what the thread was called, so cannot really search for it lol.

I did search for 'DIY' and only found a thread called "For Vitamin C Serum DIYers" - is that the one I want?

this is the one i use. its near the bottom. kassy's version http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=392693#392693

free skin care · Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:36 pm

Are there any general recommendations for dermarolling over areas treated with Botox and dermal fillers? safe or not?

Thanks, BF

free skin care · Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:40 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:

Some posts advise against anti-inflammatories after rolling since inflammation is part of the triggering of the mechanisms involved in collagen rebuilding.

Others advise against too much inflammation since it is counterproductive, I assume because inflammation can trigger free radicals and the oxidative process.

Regarding the points above, both of those things are true.

I wish I could remember where I read this... and I will start looking, actually, because I'd really like to post a reference for this... but, I think that the MAIN healing period where you really need to leave things is during the first 3 to 4 days. That is when your body is initially responding to the wounds you've created, signalling the body to produce more collagen in the skin, and the redness/inflammation is part of that. Reducing inflammation at that point defeats the whole purpose. Let the wound healing cascade do its magic for 3 to 4 days. After that, you can do LED treatments, use emu oil and whatever other anti-inflammatory treatments.

The key to success is controlled inflammation.

It's the chronic inflammation, or more accurately micro-inflammation (even worse, because you don't see it Neutral

), that ultimately ages your skin.

Hope that helps a little Smile

Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:49 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

Barefootgirl wrote:

Some posts advise against anti-inflammatories after rolling since inflammation is part of the triggering of the mechanisms involved in collagen rebuilding.

Others advise against too much inflammation since it is counterproductive, I assume because inflammation can trigger free radicals and the oxidative process.

Regarding the points above, both of those things are true.

I wish I could remember where I read this... and I will start looking, actually, because I'd really like to post a reference for this... but, I think that the MAIN healing period where you really need to leave things is during the first 3 to 4 days. That is when your body is initially responding to the wounds you've created, signalling the body to produce more collagen in the skin, and the redness/inflammation is part of that. Reducing inflammation at that point defeats the whole purpose. Let the wound healing cascade do its magic for 3 to 4 days. After that, you can do LED treatments, use emu oil and whatever other anti-inflammatory treatments.

The key to success is controlled inflammation.

It's the chronic inflammation, or more accurately micro-inflammation (even worse, because you don't see it Neutral

), that ultimately ages your skin.

Hope that helps a little Smile

I also recall reading and just spent 30 minutes trying to find to no avail. According to one of the articles that Bethany suggested...people can avoid micro inflammation by limiting their rolls to every 2 weeks.... Again this thread is so long it's sometimes hard to remember where you read something....

Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:57 pm

Kay2008 wrote:

vivre wrote:

Kay2008 wrote:

I found it!!! after reading the last God knows how many pages of this thread Laughing

I'm glad you found the recipe....I use the L ascorbic acid water soluble recipe but I make it fresh every two-three days and I no longer bother with the glycerin...I use one part powder to ten parts distilled water and I add a capsule of vitamin E to help preserve the mixture. From my recollection the DIY recipe calls for something like 5 parts water..5 parts glycerin..1 part L Ascorbic acid powder. I personally lost all my notes when my hard drive crashed last week..Sorry I could not help you with the thread...

Hi vivre,

I just wanted to ask them if it would be ok just to use the Ascorbic Acid instead of the L-ascorbic Acid - as I am having a hard time finding it here in the UK. I didn't want to buy the Ascorbic Acid and it be a waste of time!

No problem! Luckily I found it... not intentionally either, I just thought I'd browse through quite a few pages that were posted before I joined and managed to come across someone posting the link.

Hi Kay!!

I believe it's supposed to be L Ascorbic Acid....from what I read you can call the company that manufacturers the Ascorbic acid and ask them if it's L Ascorbic acid as sometimes it is and they don't mention it....

Good Luck!!

free skin care · Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:15 pm

vivre wrote:

I also recall reading and just spent 30 minutes trying to find to no avail. According to one of the articles that Bethany suggested...people can avoid micro inflammation by limiting their rolls to every 2 weeks.... Again this thread is so long it's sometimes hard to remember where you read something....

And to make things more confusing, some of the original articles seem to have been removed, though most of them can still be found other places online.

Also, two weeks is the BARE minimum -- for intense rolling, most people need 4 or more weeks recovery time. Intense rolls, spread out by at least four weeks, seem to really get results.

Dr Liebl's blog shows some really amazing results remodelling significantly scarred skin. I think most of the results were obtained in 3 treatments.

free skin care · Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:35 pm

hey i just got some Great news from the ebay seller. here's what he sent me.

Dear ace2434,

Hi,
I've taken a look at its a great little rescource. The link to my main site (where the roller is a bit cheaper than my ebay store) is:
www.venkman-industries.co.uk/derma

Its the same product, same free gift, free postage and a little cheaper than ebay.
Thanks for your mail, I'm thinking of putting up a special mini site which will be exclusive to people on the forum with a discounted price, do you think it will be popular?
Thanks,
pete

free skin care · Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:51 am

Has anyone done this to the neck area yet? What were your results?

Thanks in advance-- Inky

Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:24 am

Hi all, I joined a few weeks ago but life happened and I am only able to order my rollers now. I'm thinking of a .5 for product and 1.5 for scaring. Dermarollers.us seem to have a good deal at the moment, or should I only be looking at the dr roller? Also I regularly have acne flare ups should I be considering using the rollers now or try to get that under control first? I don't want to make things worse, but with cystic acne it could be 6 months of antibiotics away from resolution. Main problems in small areas and lines around eyes, Am I better off getting the larger or smaller roller? (72 needles)Any help greatly appreciated. Thank-you Embarassed

free skin care · Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:07 am

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

Barefootgirl wrote:

Some posts advise against anti-inflammatories after rolling since inflammation is part of the triggering of the mechanisms involved in collagen rebuilding.

Others advise against too much inflammation since it is counterproductive, I assume because inflammation can trigger free radicals and the oxidative process.

Regarding the points above, both of those things are true.

I wish I could remember where I read this... and I will start looking, actually, because I'd really like to post a reference for this... but, I think that the MAIN healing period where you really need to leave things is during the first 3 to 4 days. That is when your body is initially responding to the wounds you've created, signalling the body to produce more collagen in the skin, and the redness/inflammation is part of that. Reducing inflammation at that point defeats the whole purpose. Let the wound healing cascade do its magic for 3 to 4 days. After that, you can do LED treatments, use emu oil and whatever other anti-inflammatory treatments.

The key to success is controlled inflammation.

Low, here you go...the link goes into far more detail about the necessity of the inflammation phase as part of the wound healing cascade.

Quote:

There are three phases in wound healing:

Phase I: inflammation, which starts immediately after the injury

Phase II: proliferation (tissue formation), which starts after about 5 days and lasts about 8 weeks

Phase III: tissue remodeling, from 8 weeks to about 1 year

http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf

free skin care · Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:15 am

As usual Bethany, you totally rock Very Happy

Thanks!

bethany wrote:

Low, here you go...the link goes into far more detail about the necessity of the inflammation phase as part of the wound healing cascade.

Quote:

There are three phases in wound healing:

Phase I: inflammation, which starts immediately after the injury

Phase II: proliferation (tissue formation), which starts after about 5 days and lasts about 8 weeks

Phase III: tissue remodeling, from 8 weeks to about 1 year

http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf

Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:11 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

As usual Bethany, you totally rock Very Happy

Thanks!

bethany wrote:

Low, here you go...the link goes into far more detail about the necessity of the inflammation phase as part of the wound healing cascade.

Quote:

There are three phases in wound healing:

Phase I: inflammation, which starts immediately after the injury

Phase II: proliferation (tissue formation), which starts after about 5 days and lasts about 8 weeks

Phase III: tissue remodeling, from 8 weeks to about 1 year

http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf

Thanks Bethany!! This article explains a great deal!!!

Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:27 pm

faithfullshell wrote:

Hi all, I joined a few weeks ago but life happened and I am only able to order my rollers now. I'm thinking of a .5 for product and 1.5 for scaring. Dermarollers.us seem to have a good deal at the moment, or should I only be looking at the dr roller?

Hi!!

I wish I had answers to all your questions but the only thing I can tell you is that there has been a general consensus that the DR.Rollers work the best because of their "cross lined needle arrangement (to create tension on the skin) which is unique the the Dr Roller " Many of the pros in this thread swear by this pattern...So if you have to choose...The Dr.Roller is the preferred choice.

Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:36 am

I wish there was a way to search just a specific thread and not all the threads. I read this whole thread, but now I have read into the Obagi Clear and want to get there for red acne scars. When I read this thread, I wasn't interested in the Obagi Clear, so I don't remember if I can use Obagi Clear and roll at the same time? Not on my skin while rolling, but after? This Obagi Clear sounds too good to be true, but so does this dermarolling, so I can't just pick one! Laughing

Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:55 am

Thanks for the help Vivre,I'm thinking the best course of action will be clearing the cystic first then rollering, will lurk in the background occasionally- staying here I just want to get my roller and get into it! lol Thanks also to Keliu for her previous help;)

Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:01 am

faithfullshell wrote:

Thanks for the help Vivre,I'm thinking the best course of action will be clearing the cystic first then rollering, will lurk in the background occasionally- staying here I just want to get my roller and get into it! lol Thanks also to Keliu for her previous help;)

From what I understand it may be the best thing as I recall reading in one of the articles (can't tell you which on....don't remember) the roller should not be used on inflamed skin...However, I'm really not sure as I may have even read it outside of EDS and on another site. To really get the best info try a search on acne and dermaroller either on this forum or the "university of Google" Good Luck....the thread is just too long to keep track of everything so the search engine is the best way to find specific info....

free skin care · Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:03 am

I decided to roll an area on my left breast lastnight. (Just wish my ADC Retin A cream will hurry up! I hate using the gel).

While sitting (I should say slouching) in the chair watching TV lastnight, I looked down at my chest and saw some horrid marks on the upper part of my left breast. They were all wrinkly and indented (the stretch marks).

I rolled lastnight, with pressure (as I am only going to do this once a month). I had quite a few specs of blood this time compared to my stomach. But the blood appeared under the skin, if that makes sense. I couldn't wipe my finger over it and then get blood on my finger.
Surprisingly it wasn't that painful, it did hurt... but didn't feel sickly like my stomach.
The area became very red, and was painful (not too bad) all through the night. It's been a good 12 hours and the area isn't as red, but it seems as if I can see a roller "track" where I have rolled! Sometimes I feel like I have been punched in the breast.
So far I have rolled two areas on my stomach and a tiny part of my left breast. I applied the Retin A gel (that's all I have right now) right after the roll, then I am applying it on the same areas everynight just before bed.

Once my Retin A (0.05%) cream comes from ADC, I will make up a DIY Vit C serum and do that routine instead... but that wont be until at least 4 weeks after the first rolls.

I need to make a log/diary of what I have done so far. In a way I am using this thread lol.

free skin care · Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:03 pm

How often do you reckon you should replace your dermaroller? I'm going to start out dermarolling on my body, but I'm wondering if I should buy a separate roller when it comes time to do my face.

free skin care · Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:27 pm

Coconut wrote:

How often do you reckon you should replace your dermaroller? I'm going to start out dermarolling on my body, but I'm wondering if I should buy a separate roller when it comes time to do my face.

i would.

free skin care · Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:32 pm

faithfullshell wrote:

Hi all, I joined a few weeks ago but life happened and I am only able to order my rollers now. I'm thinking of a .5 for product and 1.5 for scaring. Dermarollers.us seem to have a good deal at the moment, or should I only be looking at the dr roller? Also I regularly have acne flare ups should I be considering using the rollers now or try to get that under control first? I don't want to make things worse, but with cystic acne it could be 6 months of antibiotics away from resolution. Main problems in small areas and lines around eyes, Am I better off getting the larger or smaller roller? (72 needles)Any help greatly appreciated. Thank-you Embarassed

ya, vivre is correct. don't roll on inflamed skin (i bet if you tried you wouldn't even be able to..ouch!) I can sympathize 'cause i have breakouts and they can take for ever to clear. If you decide to roll the small area's of concern where there is no breakout, your best bet would be the 3line (that's the smaller roller) from Dr.

good luck
m

free skin care · Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:54 pm

I rolled my upper arms yesterday afternoon. The 3rd now since starting my "very aggressive" rolls.
I was VERY bloodied and it also bruised quite abit. Still very bruised on my inner arms today.
It had been exactly 11 weeks since last rolling that area. I decided to leave the forearms till tomorrow as I had to go out last night and again tonight, and don't want to have to explain what I've done.(My shirt was elbow length)
It took me an hour and a half just to do that area anyway and my arms were aching after.(From doing the rolls not the rolled areas aching)
Anyway I can say that my arms are looking somewhat better over the last month or so, so I have high hopes.

free skin care · Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:01 am

Mishey,

What are you rolling your arms for? And have you seen results related to what you're "treating" with the 3 aggressive rolls?

free skin care · Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:24 am

One of the percutaneous collagen induction articles recommends Vitamins A & C for post rolling treatment, in a cream or oil base.

I currently use Retin A in a gel base and Vitamin C in a silicone base, so I am considering the use of a retinoid cream and need to find a Vitamin C serum in an oil or cream base.

Any recommendations? thanks

free skin care · Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:26 am

I apologize, I found some info via the search tool.

BF

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