DermaRoller
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free skin care · Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:51 am

Catie, here is a quotation from an article about dermarolling, written by a doctor.

“In my experience, 0.25mm needle diameter is the maximum that can be used without causing a new scar in the skin. Smaller diameter needle skin rollers can be used but do not maximise the dermal injury and therefore will be slower to produce results.”

free skin care · Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:19 am

Catie wrote:

Hi, I'm new and interested in dermarolling, too... I have read most of this thread (and others here) and lots of other info about rollers and needling for scars. I saw on the dermaroller.eu site that the derma stamp has needles with a diameter of only 0.12 mm, and I think I read that larger diameter needles can cause scarring. However, most of the needles EDS members use are 0.25 mm diameter? I read people on acne forums have good luck with even larger diameter needles.

Accupuncture needles may be too flimsy for repeated use, but if you can get a box of a hundred sterile, single use, cheap needles, would it matter if they bent after a few times and you threw them out? They are nice because they can be as small as 0.12, 0.16, 0.18, 0.20, 0.22, 0.25 mm diameters, so there is so much flexibility there. Has anyone at EDS tried to use accupuncture needles for scars or wrinkles?

Another idea I am pondering is tatoo needles, which you can buy online. They are stronger and longer, so more comfortable to hold in the hand, but the smallest I could find (so far) is 0.25 mm, which might be best anyway. I am confused though cos of dermaroller's website that said 0.12 mm was best, unless I misunderstood.

I am very happy to have found EDS and am learning so much from all of you, but boy oh boy is it a lot to take in!!

What do you all think about trying a box of accupuncture needles that are very fine, say 0.12 or 0.14 mm like dermaroller.eu recommends? Or is .25 mm better?

I am so happy to have found EDS! Smile

Hi Catie,

Welcome to EDS! I suggest you read this information about Dermarolling

http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/

http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

I actually printed off the dermarolling instructions since there is so much information to read. I hope this helps!

free skin care · Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:30 am

rileygirl wrote:

SkinCareJunkie wrote:

So I have been going freaking nuts to find a dry brush. I don't have a Whole Foods by me. Does the Brush have to be small if you want to use it on your face? The only ones I have found are the body size. Thanks Very Happy

I "think" the body ones maybe to too rough for your face, skincarejunkie.

Yeah I think your right. I felt some of the body brushes and they felt pretty rough. I found this one online if anyone is looking for a "dry brush".

http://www.thebodyshop-usa.com/prod638819;jsessionid=mBrUrB+gMKW7Y7KhHNiOUg**.bsbwilapp03-bsprd-app-102?cm_sp=OnsiteSearch-_-brush-_-Rounded_Handle_Facial_Brush

I might just way until I can get to a Whole Foods. Laughing

Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:31 am

SkinCareJunkie, that last link was pretty informative and I'm thinking I need to use something on my face after rolling like they suggested. Have you or do you know of anyone that's ordered from this site, AND has anyone actually rolled under their eyes? They are talking about right under the eye, that very thin skin, right?

I ordered a .5mm roller but I haven't received it yet.

free skin care · Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:28 pm

BeckyS wrote:

SkinCareJunkie, that last link was pretty informative and I'm thinking I need to use something on my face after rolling like they suggested. Have you or do you know of anyone that's ordered from this site, AND has anyone actually rolled under their eyes? They are talking about right under the eye, that very thin skin, right?

I ordered a .5mm roller but I haven't received it yet.

Hey Becky,

I think quite a few EDS members have ordered from Own Doc.

Here's a thread on dermarolling under the eyes.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=37085&start=0

I hope this helps.

Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:04 pm

Thank you!! I'm still a bit weirded out about all of this, so all the info. I can get is appreciated!!

free skin care · Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:43 pm

Becky - Skinactives.com has some nice products that are good to use pre roll and post roll. I use marine nutrient serum or Let's Make Collagen pre roll. Afterward I use a mix of Every Lipid Serum and Antiox booster. I also apply Copper Peptides within one hour of a roll sometimes.

It's best to nourish your skin before and after while you have all that best penetration of product working for you. It's great!

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:30 am

SkinCareJunkie wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

SkinCareJunkie wrote:

So I have been going freaking nuts to find a dry brush. I don't have a Whole Foods by me. Does the Brush have to be small if you want to use it on your face? The only ones I have found are the body size. Thanks Very Happy

I "think" the body ones maybe to too rough for your face, skincarejunkie.

Yeah I think your right. I felt some of the body brushes and they felt pretty rough. I found this one online if anyone is looking for a "dry brush".

http://www.thebodyshop-usa.com/prod638819;jsessionid=mBrUrB+gMKW7Y7KhHNiOUg**.bsbwilapp03-bsprd-app-102?cm_sp=OnsiteSearch-_-brush-_-Rounded_Handle_Facial_Brush

I might just way until I can get to a Whole Foods. Laughing

I first used a natural bristle brush but found it was too rough (it was a Japanese-made brush especially for the face as well). I got some advice from a few people using the synthetic brushes that come with their Clarisonic and now I use the 'normal' brush that came with my Tre-Sonic. Maybe it's worth just ordering the brushes of either device; they feel great on the skin and are easy to clean.

Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:03 am

Thanks for the welcome to the forum, SkinCareJunkie Smile

and thanks for the links on dermarolling from owndoc, too. That info is very useful.

I have been trying to wade through search engine results at pubmed to see what data is out there on dermarolling, but so far, all I see has to do with enhanced transdermal penetration of product / medication. I would love to see a split face (or two randomized groups, as I can't imagine rolling half of someone's face and risking asymmetry!) comparison of people who have had medical dermarolling (1.5 mm depth) for a year or so, with skin biopsy evaluation of the epidermis, dermis, and collagen matrix. It makes sense theoretically that dermarolling into the dermis at a depth of 1.5 mm or so would set off the wound cascade, resulting in collagen remodelling, which you would see after several (six?) months, but I wonder what that collagen looks like. Is it smooth and organized like a younger person's?

I have so many questions, but I think dermarolling has great promise, and I have read here at EDS that some members have had great results.

Does anyone know if any studies have been done to examine skin biopsies six to twelve months after dermarolling to 1.5 mm depth? I will keep looking and if I find anything, I'll post it here.

Thanks again for the welcome and great info here Smile

Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:34 am

Sister Sweets, thank you for responding and for the list of products!! I'm starting to really get excited and hope my roller arrives soon.

Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:24 am

Hi there...
Finally got my rollers from own doc and skin products from Skin Biology. Did the 1st roll today and will wait and see, didn't draw blood but wondering whether I pressed hard enough with the 1.5 . Do the needles need to go all the way in ?? How do you know when is far enough ? Also I got the Emu oil from Skin Biology and it is really stinky !! Does anyone else find this and can you add lavender oil to mask the smell or is that not a good idea ...to just smell like a lavender scented emu instead Laughing

Thanks for your replies and the thread is really helpful

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:09 am

Catie wrote:

Thanks for the welcome to the forum, SkinCareJunkie Smile

and thanks for the links on dermarolling from owndoc, too. That info is very useful.

I have been trying to wade through search engine results at pubmed to see what data is out there on dermarolling, but so far, all I see has to do with enhanced transdermal penetration of product / medication. I would love to see a split face (or two randomized groups, as I can't imagine rolling half of someone's face and risking asymmetry!) comparison of people who have had medical dermarolling (1.5 mm depth) for a year or so, with skin biopsy evaluation of the epidermis, dermis, and collagen matrix. It makes sense theoretically that dermarolling into the dermis at a depth of 1.5 mm or so would set off the wound cascade, resulting in collagen remodelling, which you would see after several (six?) months, but I wonder what that collagen looks like. Is it smooth and organized like a younger person's?

I have so many questions, but I think dermarolling has great promise, and I have read here at EDS that some members have had great results.

Does anyone know if any studies have been done to examine skin biopsies six to twelve months after dermarolling to 1.5 mm depth? I will keep looking and if I find anything, I'll post it here.

Thanks again for the welcome and great info here Smile

You can find some studies at this thread and a couple of the links provided in it have some pretty impressive Before & After pictures (side by side).

Most of the articles within the thread can answer your questions for you.

Happy reading!

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860&highlight=cit

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:15 am

ratchette13 wrote:

Hi there...
Finally got my rollers from own doc and skin products from Skin Biology. Did the 1st roll today and will wait and see, didn't draw blood but wondering whether I pressed hard enough with the 1.5 . Do the needles need to go all the way in ?? How do you know when is far enough ? Also I got the Emu oil from Skin Biology and it is really stinky !! Does anyone else find this and can you add lavender oil to mask the smell or is that not a good idea ...to just smell like a lavender scented emu instead Laughing

Thanks for your replies and the thread is really helpful

ratchette - did you use any type of topical numbing cream before you rolled? If not, you probably did not go in deep enuf. Our pain thresh holds seem to prevent most of us from causing any discomfort and we tend to stop when it hurts too much (I know I do). You might find that after a few shallow rolls, you might be able to go deeper. My skin toughened up a bit after the first few rolls with a .2. A numbing cream will help a lot - Emla is a good one.

I do find the Emu oil has a strange scent. It doesn't bother me and it doesn't last long (thank goodness).

FYI-I refrigerate my large bottle to preserve it and keep a small bottle in my bathroom. Emu can spoil on you, so be careful (esp in warmer weather.)

Not sure about the Lavender Oil. Perhaps ask Skin Bio about that. Some essential oils are irritants to some people, so you might want to investigate that a bit, too.

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:07 pm

This is Miranda wrote:

SkinCareJunkie wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

SkinCareJunkie wrote:

So I have been going freaking nuts to find a dry brush. I don't have a Whole Foods by me. Does the Brush have to be small if you want to use it on your face? The only ones I have found are the body size. Thanks Very Happy

I "think" the body ones maybe to too rough for your face, skincarejunkie.

Yeah I think your right. I felt some of the body brushes and they felt pretty rough. I found this one online if anyone is looking for a "dry brush".

http://www.thebodyshop-usa.com/prod638819;jsessionid=mBrUrB+gMKW7Y7KhHNiOUg**.bsbwilapp03-bsprd-app-102?cm_sp=OnsiteSearch-_-brush-_-Rounded_Handle_Facial_Brush

I might just way until I can get to a Whole Foods. Laughing

I first used a natural bristle brush but found it was too rough (it was a Japanese-made brush especially for the face as well). I got some advice from a few people using the synthetic brushes that come with their Clarisonic and now I use the 'normal' brush that came with my Tre-Sonic. Maybe it's worth just ordering the brushes of either device; they feel great on the skin and are easy to clean.

Thank you for the suggestion! I was thinking about ordering the Clarisonic but then I read it's not good to use if your pron to broken capillaries. Then I got to thinking I wonder if I should do the dry brushing at all. I guess I could ask Sarah on the own doc forum Smile

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:44 pm

SkinCareJunkie wrote:

I was thinking about ordering the Clarisonic but then I read it's not good to use if your pron to broken capillaries.

Hey, skincarejunkie. I had the same fear with the Clarisonic and held off for a long time, but I finally purchased the Mia back around the first of the year. It has not caused any more broken caps for me. Thought I would mention that to you!

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:02 pm

rileygirl wrote:

SkinCareJunkie wrote:

I was thinking about ordering the Clarisonic but then I read it's not good to use if your pron to broken capillaries.

Hey, skincarejunkie. I had the same fear with the Clarisonic and held off for a long time, but I finally purchased the Mia back around the first of the year. It has not caused any more broken caps for me. Thought I would mention that to you!

That's great news! Maybe I should just break down and buy one of those! I can hear it now "now what the heck is this thing and what does it do" (My bf) Laughing

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:50 pm

SkinCareJunkie wrote:

That's great news! Maybe I should just break down and buy one of those! I can hear it now "now what the heck is this thing and what does it do" (My bf) Laughing

I figured you would like to hear that if you were interested in it, but didn't buy because of the broken caps. I do have to say this though, I am not at all that impressed with it! I mean, it cleans well, but doesn't seem to clean any better than other things I have used to be honest!

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:08 pm

I have a Clarisonic and haven't been very impressed with it either. I much prefer the microfiber cloth. The Clarisonic is known for cleaning out pores but it didn't do anything for my clogged pores even with a full year of use. OCM helped some but the cloth is the best. The cloth is only $12 vs $150 for the Clarisonic. I wish I would have known about the cloth sooner.

Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:22 pm

Getting back into rolling. I feel my old roller is sort of gross. so ordered from owndoc.

Curious if anyone uses a vaculift along with rolling?

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:38 pm

Well maybe I'll just get my hands on a "dry brush" first instead of investing all the dough. I have a microfiber cloth. I like that, but it seems like the Muslin cloth does a better job.
Smile

free skin care · Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:09 am

Skincarejunkie, I wonder if we have different microfiber cloths. I just love mine and I can't imagine anything being better than that. If we have the same cloth and you like the other cloth better, I must try it!!!

The one I have is an exfol cloth from NCN. This is it.

http://www.ncnproskincare.com/virtuemart/25.html

free skin care · Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:12 pm

Tonia wrote:

Skincarejunkie, I wonder if we have different microfiber cloths. I just love mine and I can't imagine anything being better than that. If we have the same cloth and you like the other cloth better, I must try it!!!

The one I have is an exfol cloth from NCN. This is it.

http://www.ncnproskincare.com/virtuemart/25.html

Hey Tonia,
I also have the NCN cloth. I used it once and decided I like the Muslin cloths better. The NCN was too gentle for my liking. The Muslin cloth made my face very smooth. I purchased the Muslin cloths @ the body shop. You get 3 cloths for $8 dollars. I haven't been able to use any cloths because I have a breakout on my chin (from picking. I learned fast you don't want to use cloths when you have a breakout, they spread the bacteria around then you get more surprises on your face!

You could probably purchase Muslin Cloth at your local fabric store.

Smile

free skin care · Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:25 pm

Hi girls,

can these be used with the Oil cleansing method? or does it have to be a certain type of cleanser?

thanks

Jackie xx

free skin care · Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:24 pm

Okay, so I tried single needle pricking with my 32 gauge diabetic lancets. So the total length of the needle coming of the tip of the plastic stem is about 4-5mm and there is a definite beveled tip instead of a stiletto tip.

Well, as usual I was scared and I was not using any numbing creams so I ended up picking very superficially. Maybe 0.5mm on average. I had very few tiny blood spots. I pricked my scars and stretchmarks a little more aggressively and got the most blood spots and redness. I switched out the lancets very frequently so I got some 50 pricks per lancet.

It was a little hard to see around the plastic stem when I was pricking my forehead and under eye wrinkles. Overall, I was happy with the diabetic lancets and I will try to report back with my findings. I think I was rather timid and superficial with the single needle pricking so that may be why I am not seeing significant redness or damage?

free skin care · Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:06 am

HI, I've asked before, but I don't recall getting an answer. My question is: Do you think needling will improve the appearance of white surgical scars? Thank you. Smile

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