DermaRoller
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Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:36 am

Well I decided to leave well enough alone and hope for the best, I woke up this morning half expecting to see my face mess!

I was surprised that my skin was actually glowing and quite fresh looking.

marinaandtherobots - send me the link through pm.. I'd like to have a read through it.

Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:34 am

MaryClaire and glamglass...I have pm'ed you both the studies, as you can see the results are quite impressive

I personally wouldn't have thought dermarolling tretinoin would be safe due to the huge increase in penetration of tretinoin, but the report showed them using 10% tretinoin and it was highly tolerated. As it's claimed dermarolling results in product penetration being 200 times as much as without dermarolling, I made a rough estimation that 0.025 x 200 would have an effect comparable to 5% tretinoin. This may not be true though, this is my own theory.

My routing consists of dermarolling over my face, applying a thin layer of 0.025% tretinoing, dermarolling again over after about 2 minutes, then applying another thin layer. It does sting no doubt. When I first started, I began with 1 layer after waiting 5 minutes, this is because I was being overly cautious, I'm highly prone to hyperpigmentation due to being brown skinned. There is some peeling after 2 days that lasts 2-3 days.

I usually do it every 2-3 weeks but after 3 peeks take 5 or so weeks off. It has made a difference more than everything i've tried for my mild acne scarring and veryy veryy stubborn hyperpigmentation. I've tried most stuff, however i've avoided TCA as i'm coloured.

Oh to add, i had previously been dermarolling without tretinoin, i saw very litte results compared to dermarolling with the tretinoin.

free skin care · Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:20 pm

Hi marinaandtherobots, what size of dermaroller are you using?

Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:32 pm

doodles wrote:

Hi marinaandtherobots, what size of dermaroller are you using?

1.5mm

I know it maybe a bit too often, but to be honest, i'm way too impatient to wait any longer as my skin completely peeled and fully healed within 6 days, i don't roll too aggressively though, no more than the odd pinpoint of blood.

free skin care · Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:00 pm

Here is what the official Dermaroller website says about applying Retin-A after rolling. It states that you can do so - but that your usual dose percentage should be cut in half due to the increased pennetration.

http://www.derma-roller.org/can-retin-gel-and-dermaroller-be-used-safely

free skin care · Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:15 pm

Hi everyone. I am about to give skin needling a try. I have a device with 0.25 needles and I am looking to only treat my crows feet.
I was too scared to start with anything deeper and I figured the 0.25 should be enough for the skin around the eyes. Any thoughts, suggestions?
Here is something that makes me nervous - every night of the week I have a very intense training schedule. I wonder whether the sweat dripping down will irritate the skin around my eyes where I have used the needling device.. Thoughts?

free skin care · Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:05 pm

SnowFairy wrote:

Hi everyone. I am about to give skin needling a try. I have a device with 0.25 needles and I am looking to only treat my crows feet.
I was too scared to start with anything deeper and I figured the 0.25 should be enough for the skin around the eyes. Any thoughts, suggestions?
Here is something that makes me nervous - every night of the week I have a very intense training schedule. I wonder whether the sweat dripping down will irritate the skin around my eyes where I have used the needling device.. Thoughts?

Give it a go! Do it at night before you go to bed. By the next day you will probably not notice anything. The .25 is really quite gentle.

I started with a 0.5 and have moved up to a 1.0mm and 1.5mm. Even with those, I can hardly tell the next day. I do have fairly tough skin.

Let us know how it goes!

free skin care · Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:47 pm

ShastaGirl wrote:

SnowFairy wrote:

Hi everyone. I am about to give skin needling a try. I have a device with 0.25 needles and I am looking to only treat my crows feet.
I was too scared to start with anything deeper and I figured the 0.25 should be enough for the skin around the eyes. Any thoughts, suggestions?
Here is something that makes me nervous - every night of the week I have a very intense training schedule. I wonder whether the sweat dripping down will irritate the skin around my eyes where I have used the needling device.. Thoughts?

Give it a go! Do it at night before you go to bed. By the next day you will probably not notice anything. The .25 is really quite gentle.

I started with a 0.5 and have moved up to a 1.0mm and 1.5mm. Even with those, I can hardly tell the next day. I do have fairly tough skin.

Let us know how it goes!

A .25 and under roller is only meant for product penetration and is known as a cosmetic roll. To stimulate the production of collagen you must use a roller 0.5mm and above - this is known as a medical roll.

free skin care · Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:31 am

Keliu wrote:

ShastaGirl wrote:

SnowFairy wrote:

Hi everyone. I am about to give skin needling a try. I have a device with 0.25 needles and I am looking to only treat my crows feet.
I was too scared to start with anything deeper and I figured the 0.25 should be enough for the skin around the eyes. Any thoughts, suggestions?
Here is something that makes me nervous - every night of the week I have a very intense training schedule. I wonder whether the sweat dripping down will irritate the skin around my eyes where I have used the needling device.. Thoughts?

Give it a go! Do it at night before you go to bed. By the next day you will probably not notice anything. The .25 is really quite gentle.

I started with a 0.5 and have moved up to a 1.0mm and 1.5mm. Even with those, I can hardly tell the next day. I do have fairly tough skin.

Let us know how it goes!

A .25 and under roller is only meant for product penetration and is known as a cosmetic roll. To stimulate the production of collagen you must use a roller 0.5mm and above - this is known as a medical roll.

Thanks to both of you for your replies. I can't believe I was scared of using this thing. I barely felt it. OK, so improved product penetration is good enough for now. The instructions that came with the roller say I can use it up to 15 times before needing to replace it. I guess after those 15 times I will move up to 0.5 roller. By then my skin should have gotten a little used to being pricked by needles and I will not be so scared.

BTW - has anyone here had success in treating the crows feet with needling?

free skin care · Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:21 am

I don't know if this study has been posted already but I found it last week. It looks at using 2 different size rollers for drug delivery through the skin. (.37mm and .77mm) They use the term 370 and 770 um. The u part of um has a line going down from it. I don't have that symbol on my computer but I looked it up and it converts to the .37 and .77mm I mentioned above. In my opinion this is a very well done study with pictures and graphs.

The BIG difference in this study is that they show (by using methylene blue dye and confocal microscopy) that the microchannels created on the skin stay open for up to 12 hours or 18 hours after you roll. The 12 hours number is using the .37mm and the 18 hours is by using the .77mm. This is much different then what I have read on this forum. It does mention another study were it say
" The observed TEWL recovery pattern differs from results from another study with DR series where TEWL reached its maximal value at 1 h after poration and eventually decreased around 2 h for all MN lengths (25). This restoration of barrier function, however, does not necessarily indicate complete pore closure where the superficial layers of skin (stratum corneum) have completely healed. From our understanding of the pore closure process from previous studies with soluble microneedles, we can safely conclude that even after restoration of the water gradient, delivery through skin can be enhanced until the time point when the superficial layers completely heal. Therefore, direct imaging studies appear to be more representative of the pore closure process as compared to TEWL data.

*TEWL means transepidermal water loss.

It also has pictures of how many microchannels are created in your skin depending on the number of passes. You can see the dots because of the blue dye. You can also see how the microchannels close over time because they have pictures every few hours.

Take a look and tell me what you think.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160154/

free skin care · Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:08 pm

I chanced upon this forum today.

It seems to have good information on dermarolling:

http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/?PHPSESSID=0de7f0a365d059b4c4a1db7e19973853

free skin care · Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:55 pm

CookieD wrote:

I don't know if this study has been posted already but I found it last week. It looks at using 2 different size rollers for drug delivery through the skin. (.37mm and .77mm) They use the term 370 and 770 um. The u part of um has a line going down from it. I don't have that symbol on my computer but I looked it up and it converts to the .37 and .77mm I mentioned above. In my opinion this is a very well done study with pictures and graphs.

The BIG difference in this study is that they show (by using methylene blue dye and confocal microscopy) that the microchannels created on the skin stay open for up to 12 hours or 18 hours after you roll. The 12 hours number is using the .37mm and the 18 hours is by using the .77mm. This is much different then what I have read on this forum. It does mention another study were it say
" The observed TEWL recovery pattern differs from results from another study with DR series where TEWL reached its maximal value at 1 h after poration and eventually decreased around 2 h for all MN lengths (25). This restoration of barrier function, however, does not necessarily indicate complete pore closure where the superficial layers of skin (stratum corneum) have completely healed. From our understanding of the pore closure process from previous studies with soluble microneedles, we can safely conclude that even after restoration of the water gradient, delivery through skin can be enhanced until the time point when the superficial layers completely heal. Therefore, direct imaging studies appear to be more representative of the pore closure process as compared to TEWL data.

*TEWL means transepidermal water loss.

It also has pictures of how many microchannels are created in your skin depending on the number of passes. You can see the dots because of the blue dye. You can also see how the microchannels close over time because they have pictures every few hours.

Take a look and tell me what you think.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160154/

Very interesting!

free skin care · Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:18 pm

MaryClaire wrote:

Really enjoyed seeing this interview with Dr. Des Fernandes of Environ...He's 70 and has rolled over 50 times...I guess he's talking medical rolls because he rolls every day. He's skin looks wonderful!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_FurQQvuWg

Wow!! I finally watched this. He looks amazing! At least 20 years younger. Did you see his hands?

I've not used Environ products, but this entices me!

Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:45 pm

CookieD wrote:

It also has pictures of how many microchannels are created in your skin depending on the number of passes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160154/

This was very interesting, CookieD; thanks for posting the link. Being able to see the number of channels created from the first roll through subsequent rolls was helpful and has inspired me to roll more aggressively next time around.

Thank you also for posting your post-roll photos in late December. Can you tell me how long after the roll you felt your face looked 'normal' enough to go out in public?

free skin care · Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:49 pm

jwaduveev wrote:

CookieD wrote:

It also has pictures of how many microchannels are created in your skin depending on the number of passes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160154/

This was very interesting, CookieD; thanks for posting the link. Being able to see the number of channels created from the first roll through subsequent rolls was helpful and has inspired me to roll more aggressively next time around.

Thank you also for posting your post-roll photos in late December. Can you tell me how long after the roll you felt your face looked 'normal' enough to go out in public?

Hi jwaduveev, My skin the next day looked pink. As if I had been out in the sun too long. I didn't have any bruising. The pink color decreased over the next two or three days until you couldn't tell any difference. I don't wear any makeup but for me at least I would say by 3 days after I was back to normal. I do consider myself to have tough skin so if you have more sensitive skin it may take longer.

free skin care · Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:36 am

I did a roll last night with a 2.0mm roller. Numbed my face first with Deep Numb. Hardly any pain at all and only a few tiny blood spots. Used a 1.5mm on my neck.
I noticed there are a couple of revisions to the dermarolling directions at owndoc.dotcom
One is she no longer recommends rolling in a star pattern. She say’s the center of the pattern gets a much greater prick density than the perphery does.
Say's to only roll vertically and horizontally.
She also recommends and sells Chloramine-T for sterilizing the roller after use. Say’s its better than using alcohol.
Her PDF instructions are very helpful and can be found at her site.

free skin care · Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:14 pm

I found this blog while surfing around. It doesn't have any new information about dermarolling but it does break it down into easy to read lessons. You may or may not agree with her rolling schedule, product usage etc. but it will give you a good overview that you can read in 10 or 15 minutes to help you decide if dermarolling is something you would like to look into.

It is broken down into 7 lessons

1. Introduction to skin needling
2. Risks and sterilization
3. Needling techniques
4. Needle size and frequency
5. Skin preparation
6. Procedure and recovery
7. Sample experience

Here is a link to lesson 7. You can find the others on her site.

http://healthbeautyandskincareproducts.com/skin-needling-lesson-7-sample-experience

free skin care · Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:58 pm

Pandax12 wrote:

She also recommends and sells Chloramine-T for sterilizing the roller after use. Say’s its better than using alcohol.

Hi Pandax12, I bought some of the Chloramine-T last time I ordered from Owndoc. Do you know how to use it? I'm not sure what powder to water ratio I should use.

Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:01 pm

I want to show everyone my Dermastamp/ roller results but I cant post images or URL's since I'm a relatively new member. Anyone got any ideas how I can do so?

free skin care · Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:45 pm

packratmack wrote:

Pandax12 wrote:

She also recommends and sells Chloramine-T for sterilizing the roller after use. Say’s its better than using alcohol.

Hi Pandax12, I bought some of the Chloramine-T last time I ordered from Owndoc. Do you know how to use it? I'm not sure what powder to water ratio I should use.

I'm not Pandax12, but I've used the chloramine-t.

The instructions are on page 27 of this. http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

I find a liter of solution to be way too much, so I make a 2% solution with 1/2cup of water and 1/2 a teaspoon of chloramine-t. I soak my roller for 30-60 minutes. If you make a weaker solution you need to soak it for longer.

free skin care · Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:57 pm

Thank you very much ShastaGirl. Smile

Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:35 pm

IK237 wrote:

I want to show everyone my Dermastamp/ roller results but I cant post images or URL's since I'm a relatively new member. Anyone got any ideas how I can do so?

A moderator can probably help you. I know havana8 is one, and I think there are some others.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:11 am

Hi everyone, I started using the Dermastamp on the 23rd October 2012. Here is my treatment session schedule so far:

October 23rd - 1st session (Dermastamp)
November 6th - 2nd session (Dermastamp)
November 19th - 3rd session (Dermastamp)
10th December - 4th session (Dermastamp)
7th January2013 - 5th session (Derma ROLLER)

Here are my before and after images for my left cheek:

I should state that I don't wash my face in the morning for at least 3 weeks after Dermaroller/ stamp treatment (both 1.5mm) so these pictures are like 23 hours after I last washed my face making my face look really oily and grubby.

Anyway, can anyone see improvements in the pictures? If so, how significant?

Pics are in post below.

Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:20 am

Here are IK237's pics:

A day before 1st treatment October 23rd 2012:

After recent treatment - 5th session 7th January 2013:

Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:06 pm

havana8 wrote:

Here are IK237's pics:

A day before 1st treatment October 23rd 2012:

After recent treatment - 5th session 7th January 2013:

I think the results are pretty amazing considering it's only been under 3 months, just imagine how it'll look in another 6 months!

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