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DermaRoller

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bodiukein
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Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:57 am      Reply with quote
I have used both vit. c and retin a. I always peel after I rolled with the 1.5. When I used the retin a, I just peeled more quickly.

These are the instructions that came with my dermaroller. It's from the Nova Clinic. I have read this thread all the way through and it has some instructions that I have not heard here before. I didn't exactly follow these instructions. Confused

Method One:
1. Set up your sterile environment. Set out Dermaroller, tube of topicaine gel if used, plastic cling wrap, anti-bacterial cream, bowl of water with ice cubes and washcloth in it, clean towel, paper towel, a glass half full of disinfectant, good quality face or body moisturiser and timer

2. For face or Body treatments: apply gel if required.
(I did not get any gel but here it explains how to use the gel)

3. Roll the derma roller over the skin back and forth several times in different directions. Do not press too hard as it is not necessary for success. As a general guide roll over the area to be treated 10 times or 2-3 minutes.

4. For lip creases, do not let the dermaroller touch the lips if you are prone to cold sores. Also remember every where you treat will look red, raw or bruised, and may feel a little irritated, for a few days after the treatment. If you treat scarred pores you may hear a popping sound. There may be some very short term bleeding but his is rare.

5. When finished the rolling/needling, wash the treated area with cold water, dry gently and apply antibacterial cream. If the treated area is very tender apply the cold washcloth soaked in ice water for 30 minutes to soothe-before you apply the cream.

6. Face and Body aftercare: Immediately after Method One procedure and for the first two days, the skin may look red and bruised. There may be swelling or oozing. Some people develop milia (small white dots) on the skin as it heals. Acne-breakouts may occur or cold sores may break out.

7. For the first 2 days following the procedure, all that is required is to wash the treated area three to four time a day and apply anti-bacterial cream. For the next 3 days wash area and apply antibacterial cream morning and night only. If skin becomes itchy (which would be rare) apply hydro cortisone cream from the chemist. Wear sunscreen to protect new skin when in the sun.

8. Care for dermaroller: When you are finished, rinse the dermaroller under hot water. Then stand head first in the half full glass of disinfectant for approximately half to one hour, no longer. Shake off excess and stand on a clean towel to dry. When dry (don't put away wet) replace plastic cap and store roller in the plastic case provided.

Phew, this is long!

** Repeating the treatment: Although noticeable results may be obtained with a single treatment, you may wish to repeat the procedure to gain an even greater improvement. It can be repeated monthly if required. This process of remodeling can go on for up to 12 months.

Method 2

If you want to do a much gentler procedure the dermaroller can be used each night or morning, in this case an anaesthetic would not be needed. Five days a week out of seven is of benefit, then give you skin 2 days rest. Wash area to be treated, use roller, and then apply a good quality face or body moisturiser, preferably with active ingredients like vitamins.

To use dermaroller just to improve penetration of you skin care products: each morning after you shower or was, roll the dermaroller over skin for 1-2 minutes, apply your moisturiser/ creams. the roller can feel tickling at first but you will soon get used to it.
bethany
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Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:14 am      Reply with quote
bodiukein wrote:
These are the instructions that came with my dermaroller. It's from the Nova Clinic. I have read this thread all the way through and it has some instructions that I have not heard here before. I didn't exactly follow these instructions. Confused

7. For the first 2 days following the procedure, all that is required is to wash the treated area three to four time a day and apply anti-bacterial cream. For the next 3 days wash area and apply antibacterial cream morning and night only. If skin becomes itchy (which would be rare) apply hydro cortisone cream from the chemist. Wear sunscreen to protect new skin when in the sun.


Bod, I hope you didn't have to type all of that up!! (and thanks if you did!)

I found it interesting that they are suggesting cortisone, since Dr. Pickart says it suppresses collagen development.

But if we have learned anything from rolling, it is that there is a TON of conflicting info out there!

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Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:09 pm      Reply with quote
Can you not apply any actives on your skin after you roll?

Next question, if you do want to apply actives, what actives are the best ones for after rolling? Is it Vit C? Is it Retin-A? Or is it the CP?
bethany
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Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:58 pm      Reply with quote
ruk1 wrote:
Can you not apply any actives on your skin after you roll?

Next question, if you do want to apply actives, what actives are the best ones for after rolling? Is it Vit C? Is it Retin-A? Or is it the CP?


Ruk, yes you CAN apply actives after you roll...just make sure that they are ones that you have used in the past and have not had any reactions to, since their strength will be magnified after rolling.

Vit C, Retin A (Vit A) are both required for collagen regeneration, so you can't go wrong there.

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ruk1
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Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:13 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
ruk1 wrote:
Can you not apply any actives on your skin after you roll?

Next question, if you do want to apply actives, what actives are the best ones for after rolling? Is it Vit C? Is it Retin-A? Or is it the CP?


Ruk, yes you CAN apply actives after you roll...just make sure that they are ones that you have used in the past and have not had any reactions to, since their strength will be magnified after rolling.

Vit C, Retin A (Vit A) are both required for collagen regeneration, so you can't go wrong there.


Thank you again, dear Bethany. I have not used Retin A before. I have tried Vit C before but did not see results. Maybe I should give it another try.
bethany
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Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:37 pm      Reply with quote
ruk1 wrote:
bethany wrote:
ruk1 wrote:
Can you not apply any actives on your skin after you roll?

Next question, if you do want to apply actives, what actives are the best ones for after rolling? Is it Vit C? Is it Retin-A? Or is it the CP?


Ruk, yes you CAN apply actives after you roll...just make sure that they are ones that you have used in the past and have not had any reactions to, since their strength will be magnified after rolling.

Vit C, Retin A (Vit A) are both required for collagen regeneration, so you can't go wrong there.


Thank you again, dear Bethany. I have not used Retin A before. I have tried Vit C before but did not see results. Maybe I should give it another try.


Ruk, they say that only 50% of people see results with the typical Vit C of ascorbic acid. I would try an oil-soluble version next time.

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TanyaB
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Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:42 am      Reply with quote
Yesterday I rolled my 0.5 mm Dr.Roller for the first time. I can't say it was painful. Uncomfortable is better word here. After rolling I applied Retin A.
Today my face looks "almost" normal - few red spots around my face and neck. But the skin is very sensitive - I used my regular facewash and it felt irritating. I applied Emu Oil instead of moisturizer and will try to apply make up later.
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Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:24 pm      Reply with quote
I just wanted to post this for anyone this might help.

I have the .5 mm and the .15 roller that I purchased from Leaf Rusher. The .5 mm is too much for everyday use and also my chest does not like this roller at all. So I use the .5 mm on the weekend only.

I also purchased the Leaf Rusher Night Resolve cream at a great price and I am loving this product. Calms the skin as it brightens. I use it most nights.
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Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:27 pm      Reply with quote
platinumrose wrote:
I just wanted to post this for anyone this might help.

I have the .5 mm and the .15 roller that I purchased from Leaf Rusher. The .5 mm is too much for everyday use and also my chest does not like this roller at all. So I use the .5 mm on the weekend only.

I also purchased the Leaf Rusher Night Resolve cream at a great price and I am loving this product. Calms the skin as it brightens. I use it most nights.


Platinum, where did you purchase yours? I forgot that EDS carries L&R and purchased directly from their website...I did get 9 product samples from them, which was nice.

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sherryf13500
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Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:52 pm      Reply with quote
All,

I believe that the purpose of this tool is to disturb your skin cells and make them inflamed so that it could heal to make more collagen. Right? So you don't want to calm things down. If your skin is feeling irritated and mine does after rolling I use vit c and tazorac it doesn't feel pleasant and I may be a masochist, that is me. No pain no gain. I would not use anything that would promote healing. I would just use something to moisturize my skin after I put some cool water on my face to soothe the heat. Emu oil has anti inflammatory properties.
Am I right? Or should I be using Emu oil like some are? I want this to turn out the best it can. Going through this pain is not my idea of a good time. I want it to work.
bodiukein
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:07 am      Reply with quote
sherryf13500 wrote:
All,

I want this to turn out the best it can. Going through this pain is not my idea of a good time. I want it to work.


Yes, this is me! I wish there was a standard that we could all follow. It hurts when I use the 1.5 and I don't want to have to do it again and again because I did something wrong. I did 6 weekly rolls and am taking a break. Do you think I'll just wake up one day and my skin will be firmer and smoother with diminished lines or will it be gradual and I'll barely notice the change? Just wondering....
bethany
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:35 am      Reply with quote
sherryf13500 wrote:
All,

I believe that the purpose of this tool is to disturb your skin cells and make them inflamed so that it could heal to make more collagen. Right? So you don't want to calm things down. If your skin is feeling irritated and mine does after rolling I use vit c and tazorac it doesn't feel pleasant and I may be a masochist, that is me. No pain no gain. I would not use anything that would promote healing. I would just use something to moisturize my skin after I put some cool water on my face to soothe the heat. Emu oil has anti inflammatory properties.
Am I right? Or should I be using Emu oil like some are? I want this to turn out the best it can. Going through this pain is not my idea of a good time. I want it to work.



The actual goal when using longer needles for collagen generation is to create micro-wounds, because collagen is naturally generated as part of the healing process.

You are correct in that inflammation is part of the healing process, so you do NOT want to use an anti-inflammatory like emu oil for a day or 2 (squalane is a better choice).

The purpose of adding Vit C and Vit A (tazorac in your case) is to feed the new cells...not to irritate them further. C and A are both essential to cellular regeneration, which is why they recommend that people use both for at least 3 weeks prior to rolling, and then for 3 weeks after a medical roll.

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Cleocatra
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:45 pm      Reply with quote
I am so confused about the Derma Roller now. After reading this whole thread..What, you have to have like all different sizes?? Doesn't that get a little, uh expensive then..?? Are the different sizes really necessary or just an added bonus?? Help please?? Very Happy
skincarefreak
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:27 pm      Reply with quote
Cleocatra wrote:
I am so confused about the Derma Roller now. After reading this whole thread..What, you have to have like all different sizes?? Doesn't that get a little, uh expensive then..?? Are the different sizes really necessary or just an added bonus?? Help please?? Very Happy


I've been rolling with a .25 kneedle size roller for almost 3 months. Once I'm done with this I'll move up to the .5. I like consistency, but I think some of the users like to stimulate collagen in their skin and use the smaller kneedles as a way of maintaining. there is only so much collagen you can create.
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:59 pm      Reply with quote
skincarefreak wrote:
Cleocatra wrote:
I am so confused about the Derma Roller now. After reading this whole thread..What, you have to have like all different sizes?? Doesn't that get a little, uh expensive then..?? Are the different sizes really necessary or just an added bonus?? Help please?? Very Happy


I've been rolling with a .25 kneedle size roller for almost 3 months. Once I'm done with this I'll move up to the .5. I like consistency, but I think some of the users like to stimulate collagen in their skin and use the smaller kneedles as a way of maintaining. there is only so much collagen you can create.


The needle lengths have different purposes:

.15mm and .25mm are best for increasing product pentration by 400% and can be used daily. Both will thicken the epidermis by 30-40% if used 2 or 3 times a week for 2-3 months. (a very good thing!)

.5mm and up can be used for collagen generation (per the inventor of the dermarollar), though most people use 1.0mm and up for collagen regeneration.

1.5mm is best for pitted acne scars or deep wrinkles.


I personally have more needle lengths than I care to admit (acquired through trial and error, and jumping on the bandwagon, lol)...here is what I now use based on the research I did:

- .15mm for product penetration 3x a week

- .5mm and 1.0mm for less frequent collagen regeneration rolls (.5mm for thinner skinned areas like my chest and 1.0mm for areas like my marionette lines)

- 1.0mm 3Line roller for areas like under my eyes which are difficult to do fully with a regular roller.

As far as cost, having spent $3500 for 4 treatments of Fraxel and countless $$$ on fillers, the rollers seem pretty cheap to me, especially when they help your pricey topicals pentrate up to 400% more!

If I had to do it all over again from a budget-conscious perspective, I would buy:

.25mm for product penetration (only because the .25 is MUCH cheaper than the .15mm)

1.0mm unless I had acne pitting or deep wrinkles, and then I would buy a 1.5mm.


Here is an article that should be required reading for anyone thinking about rolling:

Environ® Medical Roll-CIT™ Micro-needling
Revolutionary New Approach to Medical Needling

Probably my FAVORITE rolling article - it contains frequency recommendations, as well as pre- and post-roll protocols for optimal collagen development. Also comparisons of rolling with 1mm vs. 3mm needles.
http://www.dermaconcepts.com/2004/environ1mmNeedling1.pdf



Additional articles on dermarolling (most have overviews of what is in them):
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

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Cleocatra
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:49 pm      Reply with quote
Bethany,
Thank you sooo much!! You really clarified this for me!! The pdf was a great help too!!

skincarefreak, I appreciate your input too!

Now I have a few more questions, which brand of these mirco-needling tools is best? OR is Derma Roller like the fav for most here?

And last question for right now anyway, where to purchase said item..? Very Happy

Thanks!! Smile
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:22 pm      Reply with quote
Cleo,

Here is a thread with some info on discounted rollers for EDS members. All the contact and discount info is there on page 1, except the price on the .25mm Dr. Roller because it is too cheap efor me to list online (pm me for the price).

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29392

I don't think you can go wrong with either of the 2 brands on Page 1 in the above thread, but I am personally partial to the Dr. Roller brand (weighted roller, cross-linked needle pattern to increase surface tension and thus penetration, ergonomic handle).

If you go with the ones at www.dermarollers.us, make sure you try the discount code that expired on June 20th...they ran out of stock, so the coupon will probably be extended.

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Rebecca1
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:45 am      Reply with quote
For those of you that are rolling large body areas ( I think I am now rolling everywhere Laughing ) I just discovered a quick and easy method of pain reduction. I did it in the shower, under quite hot water. I tried to think if there was any reason I should not do this....couldn't think of one...so off I went. The hot water desensitised the skin nicely, and made the rolling easy. I was even able to do the top of my back, which has been previously too uncomfortable for me!

I have a new problem though Wink Just got a breast augment. and I can no longer roll into the area close to my breasts, due to the suprising occurance of CLEAVAGE! I guess I'll just have to live with it Laughing

cheers

rebecca

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Cleocatra
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:36 am      Reply with quote
Thanks again to those who replied to my questions!! You all are GREAT! And I am soooo glad I found this forum!!! Wahooo!! I can't wait to try some of the stuff I've been reading about here!!
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:56 pm      Reply with quote
Ok so I believe I have decided on to try the needling, but I was wondering where to find a 3-line one for the eye area..? Seems only ebay offers them and I'd rather not go that route.. Any suggestions?? Thank you!
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:26 pm      Reply with quote
Cleo - Bethany posted this in the discount thread: (where EDS members receive discounts)

The 3Line Rollers come in 1.0mm, 1.5mm, and 2.0mm, and are priced the same as the regular rollers (see prices below the pic).



You will need to mention that you are from EDS

Jack at One-Stop (he also sells on ebay, but our prices are lower)
Call: 1-866-583-7883
Hours: 10am to 4pm ET
Email: backstrecords2@yahoo.com

0.5 - $54.95
1.0 - $64.95
1.5 - $74.95
2.0 - $89.95
2.5 - $99.95

Shipping is $8.95, and he will combine shipping for multiple rollers.

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Cleocatra
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:04 pm      Reply with quote
Oh! lol Uh, thank you for this info!! I didn't know the Dr. Rollers came in the 3-line sizes as well! Awesome!
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:37 pm      Reply with quote
I have some thoughts on the emu oil issue. I know that it is advised not to use emu oil directly after rolling because of its anti-inflamatory properties disturbing the healing/collagen making process, and this makes good sense. However, I would also point out that emu oil contains naturally occurring vitamin A, vitamin E, natural fatty acids and facilitates collagen growth. In addition it also has anti-bacterial properties.

I am taking a break from using my 1.5 roller and instead am rolling with the .5. I'm applying my usual serums, Retin-A, emu oil and then rolling it all into the skin. My reasoning behind this is that since I have been rubbing emu oil into my nails, my nails have visibly changed. They are thicker, opaque instead of transparent and they no longer break or split. Which leads me to surmise that if the emu oil is "feeding" my nails, it will do the same for my skin.

I also want to raise the issue of iontophoresis - we really haven't discussed this here. Dr. Fernandes recommends using iontophoresis along with the dermaroller for added product penetration so I am using a UP5 facial machine. I know that the UP5 can't be used in the US (they won't supply due to the voltage difference) but there are other similar gadgets available. However, I'm sure I read somewhere that galvanic current won't penetrate through oil - I've got to do some more research on this. So if anybody has any knowledge on the topic of iontophoresis, please share. I'd also be interested in your opinions on the use of emu oil.
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:16 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu--I tend to agree with you about the emu oil after rolling. While it might not be the best thing immediately after a roll because it's anti-inflammatory, within a day or so after a roll, I doubt it will harm the collagen-building process much and may, as you speculated, even help it.

I too am taking a protracted break from the 1.5, and all I've been using is emu. I'm going to add in some other actives soon (light applications of vit. C at least), but I think my skin is enjoying the break. I'm a die-hard emu oil fan. I've been using it for five years and if I moisturize with anything else now, my face just feels weird, like it's missing something. I tried jojoba instead of emu after rolling, early in the process (because of my anti-inflammatory fears), and all I got for my caution was a zit on my right cheek. Embarassed Laughing

That's really interesting about your nails and emu, too. I have terrible, thin nails and nothing has worked for them...sounds like that's worth a try!
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:39 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
I have some thoughts on the emu oil issue. I know that it is advised not to use emu oil directly after rolling because of its anti-inflamatory properties disturbing the healing/collagen making process, and this makes good sense. However, I would also point out that emu oil contains naturally occurring vitamin A, vitamin E, natural fatty acids and facilitates collagen growth. In addition it also has anti-bacterial properties..


I use squalane for 24 hours, and then start the emu oil back up after a 1.0mm roll.

For a .25mm roll, I use emu oil that night.

I LOOOOOVE my emu oil, and am NOT willing to give it up for longer than that. I just read that it has collagen regeneration properties, though I haven't come across any studies that say that yet. And it also reduces pain and itching, which I can definitely attest to after my recent chest catastrophe. Embarassed


Keliu wrote:
I also want to raise the issue of iontophoresis - we really haven't discussed this here. Dr. Fernandes recommends using iontophoresis along with the dermaroller for added product penetration so I am using a UP5 facial machine. I know that the UP5 can't be used in the US (they won't supply due to the voltage difference) but there are other similar gadgets available. However, I'm sure I read somewhere that galvanic current won't penetrate through oil - I've got to do some more research on this. So if anybody has any knowledge on the topic of iontophoresis, please share. I'd also be interested in your opinions on the use of emu oil.


Dr. Fernanded recommends both iontophoresis (galvonic) and sonophoresis (ultrasound)...I have a 3mhz ultrasound unit that I should be using more often.

Here are his comments for using them after a MEDICAL grade roll:

Quote:
From day 3 or 4 onward, iontophoresis [10] and low-frequency sonophoresis of vitamin A and C could maximize the induction of healthy collagen. Iontophoresis also tends to reduce the swelling of the skin, which also helps the patient look better sooner. Low-frequency sonophoresis can be used alone without iontophoresis to enhance penetration of palmitoyl pentapeptide or other peptides (eg, palmitoyl hexapeptide, copper peptides, and so forth), which also may increase the creation of healthy collagen and elastin.
http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf


And some results from an ultrasound study (with pics) that Boski recently shared:

Quote:
Conclusion
Effects induced by US at 25 KHz are: micromechanical, thermic and cavitation effects. The micromechanical effect with microvibrations induced by US waves at 25 KHz stimulate the disaggregation of the horny layer of the epidermis [3], and the molecular movements of the solute increase their kinetic power and temperature (thermic "Joule effect") [4]. Moreover, the increased temperature with pressure modifications increase the permeability of membranes ("pushing" function). The movements promoved by US and transmitted to the vehicle applied on skin induce pressure modifications resulting its transformation to vapour state as microbubbles that break into surface (cavitation effect) [5]. Wave induced depression and pressure bring about deformation and explosion of microbubbles, generating a very high push between liquid and skin surface; and explosion increases horny layer disaggregation ("peeling" effect).

This study shows that US, with a not aggressive technique, enhance penetration of topic agents giving better results in the treatment of some cosmetic skin disorders. Combination of drugs in a suitable vehicle with LFS allows good penetration also of high molecular wheight compounds.

http://dermatology.cdlib.org/102/correspondence/intradermal/santoianni.html

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