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bethany
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Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:29 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Just an FYI...I went straight to SC2x on pigmented sections of my face with no issues and used them for 6+ months. (though I did temper them with emu oil as suggested)

But CP discussions should really take place on a CP thread.

Here is one for any future CP discussions:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=22230&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=275


Here is a link you will want to check out on Skin Biology regarding scar removal.

http://www.scar-reduction.com/

Keep in mind that the dermaroller increases the absorption of the CPs, so I would probably start with SC before SC2X.

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rollergal
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Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:05 pm      Reply with quote
@Kassy_A

You sound very concerned Smile but that's good... i think many teenage girls have more guts nowdays to jump into products they have no idea about :P
I just turned 29 last june.. I used to be very thin then I gain a lot of weight when I was a teenage girl in a short period of time.... that's why I got stretch marks all over my butt, hip and thigh.. :P
I lost some of the weight but the stretch marks still there... Sad I've used many creams but they're not getting better...

for the dermaroller. I pour hot water on it and then spray the sanitizer they gave me when I purchased the beauty mouse. it smelled like alcohol.. maybe it is alcohol :P

@bethany

if I only use the 0.5mm or less roller (daily) for my face, is it possible to thicken my skin gradually? and do you think it will help for skin maintenance to delay the aging process?
do you know how long (approxmtly) since the first roll will someone see an improvement in stretch mark?
sorry to be asking so many questions... Smile because i've tried many products before and so tired not getting any improvement Sad

@foxe

thank you for your PM Smile
no i won't be using the CP on my face... maybe i will use hydrating stuff for my face. I was thinking hydrating booster from dermalogica. I tried it and really liked it....Smile

for the stretchmark, I think i will purchase the CP from the skinbio then. I got the CP from the clrskncr roller but. like you said, maybe it's not real cp :P
bochick
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Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:20 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone, I am new to this site, have read it all I think and just ordered my 1st roller, a 1.5. It's funny because my son is a tattooist and I have a few tattoos and I had been wondering if he would want to experiment with me on whether tattoo needles could improve wrinkles. I had never heard of needling or rolling- came across this while researching LED's.
In any case I have a couple questions- my main goal is to improve lines around my lips and crow's feet. Can I roll directly on my lips too? I think I read where you should pull the skin taut while rolling, is that correct?
I can' afford retina and don't have a doctor anyway, would retinol help at least?
And finally, I have a c-section/hysterectomy scar that I would like to improve but it's only been a year- is it too soon to roll?

Thanks so much and I can't wait!
rileygirl
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Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:41 pm      Reply with quote
bochick, you can roll on your lips, but you need to know if you have been exposed to the cold sore herpes virus. I am working on the lines around my lips, as well, and I do hit my lips when I roll. I have not had any problem, but again, if you have any hx of herpes, you should not. HTH! Very Happy
bethany
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Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:54 pm      Reply with quote
rollergal wrote:
@bethany

if I only use the 0.5mm or less roller (daily) for my face, is it possible to thicken my skin gradually? and do you think it will help for skin maintenance to delay the aging process?
do you know how long (approxmtly) since the first roll will someone see an improvement in stretch mark?
sorry to be asking so many questions... Smile because i've tried many products before and so tired not getting any improvement Sad


Studies show that if you roll with a .2mm roller 2-3 times a week, you can increase your epidermal thickness by 30-40%. However, since you are only 29, I would personally not do it more frequently than every 2-3 weeks due to the inflammation ramifications. (PM me if you want me to email you the inflammation articles.)

I haven't treated any stretchmarks myself, but you might want to search for posts by Catski, because I believe she has had some success with that.

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bethany
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Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:56 pm      Reply with quote
bochick wrote:
I can' afford retina and don't have a doctor anyway, would retinol help at least?


Bochick, before you buy any retinol, please compare the prices to Retin A from either alldaychemist.com or medsmex.com!

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bochick
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Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:16 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
bochick wrote:
I can' afford retina and don't have a doctor anyway, would retinol help at least?


Bochick, before you buy any retinol, please compare the prices to Retin A from either alldaychemis com or medsmex com!


But doesn't one need a prescription? It is impossible to get in to a dermatologist here (rural area)
Also, what is a good alternative to Emla, if any?
Thank you!
bethany
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Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:00 pm      Reply with quote
bochick wrote:
bethany wrote:
bochick wrote:
I can' afford retina and don't have a doctor anyway, would retinol help at least?


Bochick, before you buy any retinol, please compare the prices to Retin A from either alldaychemis com or medsmex com!


But doesn't one need a prescription? It is impossible to get in to a dermatologist here (rural area)
Also, what is a good alternative to Emla, if any?
Thank you!


You don't need a prescription if you buy overseas.

Medsmex.com has more expensive product and less expensive shipping (about $14 + $12 shipping), while alldaychemist.com has cheaper product and more expensive shipping ($2.50 + $25 shipping). A couple of tubes of .05% trentinoin cream will last you for 6 months or more.

I think you might be able to get Emla from either of those, but I am not sure...I personally use the 10% lidocaine spray called "Climax Spray" from alldaychemist.com.

WARNING: If you order from overseas, please consider using a one-time credit card number (Citi issues these) or the Paypal plug in that will generate a random one-time credit card number for you...that keeps your credit card from being stolen, which seems to have happened to a number of people using medsmex.com (I have used them for 8+ years without a problem, but never say never!!).

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natefan87
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Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:34 pm      Reply with quote
ok i HAVE to get a dermaroller. heres my background.

im 21, and have been on retin A for a year now. About a year and a half ago i discovered the wonders of AHA's and chemical peels, but i overdid it doing WEEKLY aha peels (oops.) and i think ive damaged my skin.

i want to thicken it up so it looks taut and glowy and i reallllly want to focus on my undereye area because that area looks sallow and thickening it up would really improve my overall apperance i believe.

so do i need one of the long dermarollers or would a shorter length one work for me?

also...im confused. whats the point of using retin a (an exfoliating product) after you roll...doesn't that defeat the purpose? I'm interested in Matrixyl 3000.

thanks.
-Nathan
bethany
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Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:55 am      Reply with quote
Nathan,

I remember you from the Skin Biology board.

At your age, I would recommend absolutely nothing longer than the .25mm...but it will definitely help you thicken up your skin your skin.

Retin-A is technically NOT just an exfoliating product...it is one of very few products that are clinically proven time and time again to regenerate collagen. If I had to do my skin care plan all over, I would have used Retin A religiously 3x a week, EVERY week from my early 20's to my death bed. Very Happy

Just an FYI...you can overdo both rolling and Retin-A, and you already know the consequences of doing so. PLEASE proceed with caution on this.

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kimber7
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Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:56 am      Reply with quote
i just ordered the dermaroller from dr roller 1.5mm for my tummy.
I wanted to know in what order and when to use the creams before/after. Vitamin C and A, emu oil and CP??
I have retin a micro, i figure that s/b okay?
As far as procedure itself..I've read vertical rolls, sideways and across on the area a few times..just wondering if anyone has advice on the whole procedure from start to finish.thanks
foxe
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Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:42 pm      Reply with quote
kimber7 wrote:
i just ordered the dermaroller from dr roller 1.5mm for my tummy.
I wanted to know in what order and when to use the creams before/after. Vitamin C and A, emu oil and CP??
I have retin a micro, i figure that s/b okay?
As far as procedure itself..I've read vertical rolls, sideways and across on the area a few times..just wondering if anyone has advice on the whole procedure from start to finish.thanks


Use your Vit C and CPs on opposite ends of the day since the CPs will have a negative effect on the Vit C.

What I do w/ my routine is

PM

cleanse
Retin A Micro (wait 30-60 mins)
CPs(wait 10)
Emu Oil

AM
cleanse
BHA(wait 30 mins)
Vit C
Emu Oil
Sunscreen

I plan on using the roller after the Retin A and B4 the CPs. Not sure how soon to wait yet. Will test it out when I get my roller.

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bethany
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Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:49 pm      Reply with quote
kimber7 wrote:
i just ordered the dermaroller from dr roller 1.5mm for my tummy.
I wanted to know in what order and when to use the creams before/after. Vitamin C and A, emu oil and CP??
I have retin a micro, i figure that s/b okay?
As far as procedure itself..I've read vertical rolls, sideways and across on the area a few times..just wondering if anyone has advice on the whole procedure from start to finish.thanks


Kimber, you don't do all of that each time you roll...you want to treat the skin daily on an ongoing basis. (you should really read some of the dermaroller articles I posted, because they explain much of this)


At a minimum, please read these ones:

Environ stunned the world...
Some results pics and detailed directions on how to do a roll, including frequency of usage for the .2mm Environ home care roller:
http://www.beautymagonline.com/pages/environ_rollcit.htm


Environ® Medical Roll-CIT™ Micro-needling
Revolutionary New Approach to Medical Needling

Probably my FAVORITE rolling article - it contains frequency recommendations, as well as pre- and post-roll protocols for optimal collagen development. Also comparisons of rolling with 1mm vs. 3mm needles.
http://www.dermaconcepts.com/2004/environ1mmNeedling1.pdf



My recommendations for your stomach ONLY:

Mornings: LacSal from Skin Biology

Evenings:
- Start by alternating Retin-A and Vit C (use one one night, and the other the next night. Wait a minimum of 30 mins and follow with emu oil to help "push" the actives in there. (ideally you should do this for a week or 2 BEFORE your first roll)
- On the nights you are using Retin-A, apply CPs about 30 mins after, followed by the emu oil. If the CPs tingle too badly, apply the Retin-A, emu oil 30 mins later, and then the CPs (this will slow the penetration of the CPs)
- Once you get used to the Retin-A, you can move up to using that every night, and Vit C every morning

Rolling process (once a week):
- Disinfect, roll, disinfect again
- Apply CPs 1 hour after rolling(unless you have SC or SC2X - apply those the next day)
- Do not apply emu oil for at least 24 hours

Other people may have some additional suggestions, but these are just my thoughts.

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bethany
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Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:13 pm      Reply with quote
Many of you know that I have been doing lots of reading on inflammation, and the associated pros and cons. (and rolling does generate lots of inflammation)

I just reread one of the articles that I reposted for Kimber, and saw this:

Quote:

Regular use of the Environ® Cosmetic ROLL-CIT™ when used in conjunction with active recommended Environ® products can
-Contribute towards skin thickening
- Assists in softening fine lines
- Helps scarring to become less obvious
- Assist in the disappearance of pigmentation marks

Side Effects
A slight "tired" appearance on the face as a result of slight skin swelling. This will subside in approximately 7-10 days.

http://www.beautymagonline.com/pages/environ_rollcit.htm


This confirms that a roller with needles as short as .2mm definitely cause micro inflammation lasting as long at 7-10 days.

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Keliu
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Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:58 pm      Reply with quote
skin care addict wrote:
Hi Keliu,I would love to know your routine and what you are using.Smile



Sorry I haven't replied sooner but I'm away on a six week road trip with my husband (heaven help me!). And, yes, I did bring my .5 roller away with me. In fact I nearly got into terrible trouble - I was told by DH to "pack light". As he was putting my bag (which wasn't zipped up because it was too full) into the car, out onto the ground toppled 1 Vaculifter, 1 anti-aging Lightstim, 1 microcurrent device, 1 epilator and 1 Dermaroller (in case). "What the bloody hell is all this s**t?" said DH. But then I noticed two huge plastic containers on the back seat full of fishing reels, line and sinkers - so after pointing this out, he couldn't really say much about my "necessities".

Anyway, I think Bethany answered your question for me (thanks Bethany). I'm having a break from the 1.5 roller and just using the .5 about twice a week. Sometimes after applying products, sometimes before. I'm also still applying emu oil after rolling.

My newest products are a home-made glucosamine and niacinamide serum and Remergent DNA Repair. I apply both of these at night. Still using Retin-A 0.1% as well.

My skin continues to improve - my husband says its due to our holiday - but actually, my nerves are shot to pieces. Six weeks in a car with one's husband will do that!
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Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:15 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
My skin continues to improve - my husband says its due to our holiday - but actually, my nerves are shot to pieces. Six weeks in a car with one's husband will do that!


Holy cow...you are a much stronger woman than me! Hang in there, and enjoy what you can! Very Happy

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Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:47 am      Reply with quote
Regarding concerns about inflammation and the like: I'm considering doing a second series of rolls with the 1.5 mm at or after my 90 day break.
When I did my first series, I did once a week for six weeks. The last 3 rolls were pretty aggressive. What I'm wondering is, if I should modify this routine?
I'm thinking it might be better (and just as effective) if I do, say, only 2 or 3 agressive rolls, space them further apart, then wait another 90 days or more? I'm thinking 2 or 3 agresstive rolls spaced 10 days apart?
I guess I'm wondering if weekly rolls are overkill? I'm not terribly concerned about this, just concerned enough to wonder. Also, I'm not fond of the aggressive rolls! Ouch! I like the short needle rolls Ok, but the longer needled ones? Not so much. I mean it's painful and I really look pretty bad for 48 hrs. afterward, so if it would be better for my skin AND I get the benefits, I'd much prefer fewer rolls, but if that's not going to get me results, then I guess I go back to the 6 week routine...
Anyone have any opinions on this?
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:33 am      Reply with quote
I am a newbie here and I have read alot of pages so far and still will continue reading. I want to purchase a Dermaroller for the stretchmarks on my stomach. I was thinking of getting a 1.5 needle. I do have a stretchmark cream with good ingredients in it called Revitol. I was wondering if I could use this after I roll instead of the other products mentioned Like CPS and Vitamin A and C. I have a 6 month supply of this stuff and didnt want it to go to waste since it was kind of expensive.
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:43 am      Reply with quote
Thanks for your response and information regarding the dermaroller.
I'm looking forward to trying it. It should be here shortly.
I currently have trireduction cp and wonder if this will be okay?
I have high hopes that the dermaroller will help w/my stretch marks and scar tissue on my belly..its not too bad but i've tried everything w/out much improvement...So I guess I'm looking for the best product which seems to be CP's and retin A. Also, maybe a stretch mark cream will help, I have about 5 diff. kinds. thanks for your responses.
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:09 pm      Reply with quote
kimber7 wrote:
I currently have trireduction cp and wonder if this will be okay?

So I guess I'm looking for the best product which seems to be CP's and retin A. Also, maybe a stretch mark cream will help, I have about 5 diff. kinds. thanks for your responses.


The Trireduction will be fine to start out with, and the stretchmark creams may be fine too. Just be careful to closely monitor everything for adverse reactions, since you are likely to have a stronger reaction to any actives.

I actually had a bad reaction to Retin-A and a .15mm baby roller this weekend and had to breakout the dreaded hydrocortisone cream after 2 days due to the out of control itching. (hydrocortisone suppresses collagen production, so you do NOT want to use it unless you're desperate)

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Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:25 pm      Reply with quote
Thyckecutie wrote:
I am a newbie here and I have read alot of pages so far and still will continue reading. I want to purchase a Dermaroller for the stretchmarks on my stomach. I was thinking of getting a 1.5 needle. I do have a stretchmark cream with good ingredients in it called Revitol. I was wondering if I could use this after I roll instead of the other products mentioned Like CPS and Vitamin A and C. I have a 6 month supply of this stuff and didnt want it to go to waste since it was kind of expensive.


It looks like the Revitol contains A, E, D, etc....I would make sure you take a Vit C supplement, since Vit C is essential to building new collagen (something you need if you are remodeling skin with strechmarks).

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Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:52 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Thyckecutie wrote:
I am a newbie here and I have read alot of pages so far and still will continue reading. I want to purchase a Dermaroller for the stretchmarks on my stomach. I was thinking of getting a 1.5 needle. I do have a stretchmark cream with good ingredients in it called Revitol. I was wondering if I could use this after I roll instead of the other products mentioned Like CPS and Vitamin A and C. I have a 6 month supply of this stuff and didnt want it to go to waste since it was kind of expensive.


It looks like the Revitol contains A, E, D, etc....I would make sure you take a Vit C supplement, since Vit C is essential to building new collagen (something you need if you are remodeling skin with strechmarks).


How much Vitamin C should I take? Or can I just apply some Vitamin C to my skin every day? Maybe like the cream or oil version
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:16 pm      Reply with quote
Well, finally I just completed my first session w/1.5mm on belly area.
I was rather aggressive and see redness and the small holes. I figure I've been using some pretty strong products through the years as well as laser etc.
So i will put on CP in a bit and wait for tomorrow for retin a.
Any other suggestions for the belly area that experienced member find helpful?
thanks
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:35 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu - great one!! LMAO

Keliu wrote:
As he was putting my bag (which wasn't zipped up because it was too full) into the car, out onto the ground toppled 1 Vaculifter, 1 anti-aging Lightstim, 1 microcurrent device, 1 epilator and 1 Dermaroller (in case). "What the bloody hell is all this s**t?" said DH. But then I noticed two huge plastic containers on the back seat full of fishing reels, line and sinkers - so after pointing this out, he couldn't really say much about my "necessities".

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late 50's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic
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Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:36 pm      Reply with quote
Tigerlilly wrote:
Regarding concerns about inflammation and the like: I'm considering doing a second series of rolls with the 1.5 mm at or after my 90 day break.
When I did my first series, I did once a week for six weeks. The last 3 rolls were pretty aggressive. What I'm wondering is, if I should modify this routine?
I'm thinking it might be better (and just as effective) if I do, say, only 2 or 3 agressive rolls, space them further apart, then wait another 90 days or more? I'm thinking 2 or 3 agresstive rolls spaced 10 days apart?
I guess I'm wondering if weekly rolls are overkill? I'm not terribly concerned about this, just concerned enough to wonder. Also, I'm not fond of the aggressive rolls! Ouch! I like the short needle rolls Ok, but the longer needled ones? Not so much. I mean it's painful and I really look pretty bad for 48 hrs. afterward, so if it would be better for my skin AND I get the benefits, I'd much prefer fewer rolls, but if that's not going to get me results, then I guess I go back to the 6 week routine...
Anyone have any opinions on this?


If you recall from the inflammation research, 2 weeks is the magic time period for avoiding damaging inflammation, so I don't see where 10 days would be any better than 7 days.

But I do think that fewer aggressive rolls are better than more weaker rolls...you have to have a substantially high number of punctures to release the sufficient enzymes (or whatever they are called) in order to trigger the wound healing cascade.

I am really struggling with a schedule too...at this point I am thinking of these options:
- An aggressive 1.0mm roll once a month and skip any future breaks, OR
- An aggressive series of .15mm rolls within one week (basically every other day), then take 3 weeks off. When that has passed, do an aggressive 1.0mm roll and take off another 3 weeks. Then repeat with the baby roller. OR
- An aggressive 1.0mm roll, followed by an aggressive .15mm roll 4 weeks later. Repeat after another 4 weeks.


But the series of .15mm baby rolls I did with Retin-A this last week about did me in, so I will probably not use Retin-A after them in the future. Embarassed

I know this approach is far more conservative than other people, but the pics Chinachatters posted of the damage CAUSED by rolling too frequently scared the poo out of me, as well as the inflammation article. Confused

The pictures for those who have not seen them (she previously had no lines nor pigmentation on her forehead...both were caused by too much trauma from rolling):

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=30220

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