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SkinCareJunkie
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Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:05 am      Reply with quote
Hi guys. So I was reading about Dermarolling on owndoc.com. I have a couple of marks left over from acne. They seem to be fading little by little. Since I only have these spots wouldn't the single needle probably be the best way to go?

I was also reading about "skin brushing" prior to doing the needling. Is there a special skin brush?

It is also from my understanding that you only want to needle your skin every 4-8 weeks or long so the new collagen can form?

Thanks Smile
foxe
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Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:58 pm      Reply with quote
SkinCareJunkie wrote:
Hi guys. So I was reading about Dermarolling on owndoc.com. I have a couple of marks left over from acne. They seem to be fading little by little. Since I only have these spots wouldn't the single needle probably be the best way to go?

I was also reading about "skin brushing" prior to doing the needling. Is there a special skin brush?

It is also from my understanding that you only want to needle your skin every 4-8 weeks or long so the new collagen can form?

Thanks Smile


If your marks are post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation, then the single needle isn't neccessary. Those work best for depressed scars or bad wrinkles or stretch marks.

A short needle roller (.2 or .5) with a good topical like Vit C & Vit A, or Copper Peptides would help those PIH fade really quick. Some sort of exfoliation would also speed up the process - esp when using the CPs. CPs used with deeper rolls or single needles will really fill in depressed scars and stretch marks. (Unbelievably good)
A dry brush works good for exfoliation and I found some facial ones at Whole Foods. See if you have one of those by you.

You only want to needle every 4-6 wks for the deeper rolls - 1.0 and up. The short needle ones can be done sooner. .2 every other day and the .5 once a week.

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This is Miranda
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:58 am      Reply with quote
My 0.5mm MT roller bought from Owndoc always felt as though one/some needles were longer than others. I mentioned this to Sarah from Owndoc and she immediately sent a replacement. She checked with the supplier who said that I should not feel the needles to be irregular.
However the new replacement 0.5mm roller felt the same. I studied the roller and saw that the plastic barrel undulates making some needles longer than the others. This is also the case for my other 0.5mm and 0.2mm (bought from Jaysun Trading). Looking sideways on, all three rollers do not have their needles correctly centred. I measured a 0.5mm roller and some needles were closer to 0.9mm and others 0.2mm.
Also one needle was bent to 90 degrees, another lesser so.

I have relayed all this info to Sarah and she has been very helpful in trying to work out if I have been particularly unlucky or if there is a general problem. In fairness to Owndoc, I asked her to write a statement for me to post.

Here is the Owndoc statement:
Quote:

We have received one complaint about a dermaroller we sent to a customer, model "MT roller".
We take such complaints extremely seriously because it is not just our reputation at stake but also our customers' skin.
We can't inspect dermarollers before we send them because they are in non-transparent sterile packaging.

We randomly selected three dermarollers with long needles but none of them had any damage or bent needles or any other production quality issues.
However this does not mean that quality issue's don't exist, so we advise our customers to inspect their rollers before use and especially look for bent needles, needles that are different in length etc. When a needle is half-bent in the direction of rolling, it can potentially cause a small skin injury. This is why visual inspection before rolling is important.

Anyone who finds such a roller in their order will believed on their word and be immediately sent two replacement rollers free of charge.

We have taken this issue up with the manufacturer, and the manufacturer says they haven't received any such complaints.
Again, this does not mean that quality issues do or did not exist.

The manufacturer has been informed that if any such quality complaint reoccurs, that we will stop buying from them.
We have spoken twice on the phone with them on March 10, 2010 and they assured us they had no quality issues and that "our" rollers would be subjected to their customary quality control.

We have decided to sell their roller based on us testing various rollers, their roller being considered identical in quality, but much cheaper than the "Dr. Roller" dermaroller, both being SE Asian replica's of the not-for-private-sale "Original Dermaroller".

If we receive more similar complaints we will consider suspending all sales. Meanwhile, we are in the process of ordering more rollers from the latest manufacturers, so that we can decide on switching manufacturer.

If anyone else has received or will receive a skin roller with bent or uneven needles from us, please notify us and we will apologize and send replacements immediately.

Also, we have no problem if people post here their good/bad experiences with our dermarollers

Thank you,
Sarah and John


Of course I felt obliged to post about the potential problem. Everyone should check their MT rollers for bent needles or uneven needle lengths (due to uneven plastic barrel). Look both along the roller and the side of it. Rollers from both Owndoc and Jaysun need to be checked as they are from the same manufacturer.
ammoniasmith
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:55 am      Reply with quote
This is Miranda wrote:
Of course I felt obliged to post about the potential problem. Everyone should check their MT rollers for bent needles or uneven needle lengths (due to uneven plastic barrel). Look both along the roller and the side of it. Rollers from both Owndoc and Jaysun need to be checked as they are from the same manufacturer.


I am starting to see this issue with my MT System 0.5mm roller but I wonder if it getting distorted as it has been used very frequently. It might be time to replace. For the price, I am very happy with it. I use hot water and alcohol to sterilize it.
ammoniasmith
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:03 am      Reply with quote
I just bought a box of 100 count generic lancets from the drugstore for $5. They are the thinnest needle size (32 gauge). Was it wise to get the thinnest needle?

I have had enough of pussyfooting around with short-needled dermarollers for product penetration so I am going to go for the single needle method to attack my wrinkles. HEHE!!
Coconut
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:40 am      Reply with quote
Okay, so after researching dermarolling for the past 2 years, I've finally got my rollers and I'm ready go but, but I did a little test area and I really just can not tolerate the pain, even with the 0.2 mm. I usually have a high threshold for pain, but this stinging prickly pain makes me curl over and my eyes water, just from the lightest touch...I don't know if I will be able to do a home treatment anymore unless I can get a cream that will completely numb my face. My intentions were mainly to treat some acne scaring on my cheeks and forehead, and I know I would need to do a fairly intense roll for this, but I really can not see myself being able to do this at the moment. Do we know of any doctors in the States that are doing medical dermarolling?
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:18 pm      Reply with quote
ammoniasmith wrote:
I just bought a box of 100 count generic lancets from the drugstore for $5. They are the thinnest needle size (32 gauge). Was it wise to get the thinnest needle?

I have had enough of pussyfooting around with short-needled dermarollers for product penetration so I am going to go for the single needle method to attack my wrinkles. HEHE!!


32 gauge is pretty good. the ones from owndoc are 35 gauge.

are the lancets very long? are they at least 1.5 - 2.0mm long? any shorter and you might as well stick with your roller. you want to be able to penetrate at least 1.5 with a single needle.

also - are lancets one straight piece of metal? I thought they might have a hole or a funny shape at the end of some sort, so not very narrow at the end.

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Tonia
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:27 pm      Reply with quote
Coconut, I have a high tolerance to pain too but even the .25 dermaroller is painful for me as well. I think it's because I have thin skin on my face. I use the 1mm with numbing cream. I can do the .25 on my all of my face but I have to brace myself for it. The EMLA cream, a little wine and making sure that I do the roll right after my period help with the pain for the 1mm but it still hurts no matter what I do. Right now, I can't imagine being able to move up to the 1.5 but I'm going to try it next time.

I don't know about doctors in the States that do DR, hopefully another member can answer that one.

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Tonia
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:32 pm      Reply with quote
I wanted to mention that the 1.5mm roller I got, that was too dull to penetrate my skin, was also an MT roller. I got mine from advanced_cosmetology on ebay. When I reported the problem, they replaced my roller immediately. Their customer service was excellent.

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This is Miranda
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:35 pm      Reply with quote
ammoniasmith wrote:
I just bought a box of 100 count generic lancets from the drugstore for $5. They are the thinnest needle size (32 gauge). Was it wise to get the thinnest needle?


Is the 32 gauge the measurement in mm ?
The Owndoc needles are .25mm.
Kay2008
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:45 pm      Reply with quote
ammoniasmith wrote:
I just bought a box of 100 count generic lancets from the drugstore for $5. They are the thinnest needle size (32 gauge). Was it wise to get the thinnest needle?

I have had enough of pussyfooting around with short-needled dermarollers for product penetration so I am going to go for the single needle method to attack my wrinkles. HEHE!!


I just found some BD Micro-Fine 5mm/31G x 100 needles (on the box it says 0.25mm 31G, not sure which is correct though! as I thought 0.25mm would be a higher gauge).

EDIT: from my Google searches, 31G is .25mm (which is what the Owndoc single needles are).
Jackie284
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:48 pm      Reply with quote
Hi ammoniasmith,

are the needles you talk about the kind that would normally be attached to a syringe? Would these be just as effective ? I was thinking of ordering the single needles from owndoc, but these sound like a good alternative,

thanks

Jackie xx
Tonia
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:57 pm      Reply with quote
Here is a converter chart for gauges and mm's. .25mm falls somewhere between 30 and 31 gauge.

http://www.landofodds.com/store/convert.htm

My guess is that the 5mm is in reference to length and the 31g/.25mm are both in reference to thickness.

Had everyone but me already figured this out??? Laughing

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ammoniasmith
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:08 pm      Reply with quote
Jackie284 wrote:
Hi ammoniasmith,

are the needles you talk about the kind that would normally be attached to a syringe? Would these be just as effective ? I was thinking of ordering the single needles from owndoc, but these sound like a good alternative,

thanks

Jackie xx


These are diabetic blood lancets used to do finger pricks. I bought the ReliOn brand from Walmart for ~$4 + tax. Here is the website and photo of the plastic lancet with the round twist-off top:

http://www.relion.com/diabetes/lancets#

The idea came from others who have posted on this incredibly long dermarolling post. I don't know who recommended it but I thought it was pretty good idea. My only problem is I have to try to keep the used needles in a container for sharps disposal. Trying to be a good citizen here!

I have no clue as to length of the needles but I assume it is reasonably long enough as it should draw blood from fingertips. I will measure it once I open up one and use it. Yes, I am a little scared and I haven't used any yet!

I also could not find thickness measurements on the box or the website but there is a chart on Wikipedia that says 32 gauge is 0.2350mm in diameter.
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:17 pm      Reply with quote
Tonia wrote:
Here is a converter chart for gauges and mm's. .25mm falls somewhere between 30 and 31 gauge.

http://www.landofodds.com/store/convert.htm

My guess is that the 5mm is in reference to length and the 31g/.25mm are both in reference to thickness.

Had everyone but me already figured this out??? Laughing


Tonia thank you for spelling it out to the gauge-mm numbskulls (I'm with you, no idea!!)
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:50 pm      Reply with quote
ammoniasmith wrote:

These are diabetic blood lancets used to do finger pricks. I bought the ReliOn brand from Walmart for ~$4 + tax. Here is the website and photo of the plastic lancet with the round twist-off top:

http://www.relion.com/diabetes/lancets#

The idea came from others who have posted on this incredibly long dermarolling post. I don't know who recommended it but I thought it was pretty good idea. My only problem is I have to try to keep the used needles in a container for sharps disposal. Trying to be a good citizen here!

I have no clue as to length of the needles but I assume it is reasonably long enough as it should draw blood from fingertips. I will measure it once I open up one and use it. Yes, I am a little scared and I haven't used any yet!

I also could not find thickness measurements on the box or the website but there is a chart on Wikipedia that says 32 gauge is 0.2350mm in diameter.


Pages 74-76 of this thread discusses the use of diabetic lancets. This from Lowbrowscientist, who originally tried them:

Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Keliu wrote:
Ok, I'm with you now! I thought a lancet was like a scalpel - I thought Lowbrowscientist was cutting out her 11s Laughing


It *looked* almost as bad as that!

And now I know why: the diabetic lancets have a beveled cutting edge. : /

Dr Fernandez (I think?) states that injection needles shouldn't be used because they have a cutting edge that can cause scarring, and the lancets have the same thing. I REALLY hope I haven't made things worse. I definitely see no improvement, but that means nothing at this stage. I guess I'll just have to cough up the cash for a 3 line if I want to get rid of these lines Neutral ... or maybe i can just try Foxe's method with a thin sewing needle? Am I a glutton for punishment? Very Happy

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Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:59 pm      Reply with quote
The idea that there is a cutting edge on lancets that can cause scarring sounds odd to me. Aren't we really just piercing skin with needles? I am going to take out a magnifying glass and compare a sewing needle with lancets. I have doubts that a sewing needle could be as sharp or sharper than a lancet.
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:00 pm      Reply with quote
Well done for remembering that Lacy, I knew there was a reason for why I went for the proper single micro needle rather than a more easily available alternative.
There's a thin line between creating collagen and causing scar tissue.

This is a close up of a typical lancet edge which is different to rollers

http://www.watl.bham.ac.uk/WASP/LANCETS/Lancpoin.jpg
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:01 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you for that, Lacy. I'm a little bit relieved because I thought a lancet was a scalpel too.

If it's that thin, I wonder how it could have an edge to it and still be sharp enough to penetrate the skin. hmm

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Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:05 pm      Reply with quote
It looks like we all posted at the same time. Ammonia, I'm looking forward to hearing what you find with the magnifying glass. It sounds suspicious to me too.

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Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:05 pm      Reply with quote
Coconut:

I agree that EMLA cream will help A LOT. I have a 2.0

Before that I was just using ice! EMLA didnt work for me at first - but thats maybe because i didnt use saran wrap over it.

Once I did - I was very shocked how numb my face was -in fact it scared me a little. But it doesnt last very long - so i do half my face at a time.

I dont think I go as deep as most - but it certainly was a huge difference.

I bought mine in france for like 4/5 dollars...
(may have been illegal to bring to the states actually) Smile
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:08 pm      Reply with quote
Tonia wrote:
Coconut, I have a high tolerance to pain too but even the .25 dermaroller is painful for me as well. I think it's because I have thin skin on my face. I use the 1mm with numbing cream. I can do the .25 on my all of my face but I have to brace myself for it. The EMLA cream, a little wine and making sure that I do the roll right after my period help with the pain for the 1mm but it still hurts no matter what I do. Right now, I can't imagine being able to move up to the 1.5 but I'm going to try it next time.

I don't know about doctors in the States that do DR, hopefully another member can answer that one.


Thanks for the reply! I found a product called dr. numb that has the same ingredients as the emla, but in higher concentration and with added benzocaine, it is sickeningly expensive though. I think I might try that, with some wine! = P
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Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:16 pm      Reply with quote
OK, I was wrong.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2003/0236543.html

http://www.painless-steel.com/front_content.php?idcat=14

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Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:11 pm      Reply with quote
Lacy - thanks for bringing this post up as this is what I remember being discussed about it before.

Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Keliu wrote:

Ok, I'm with you now! I thought a lancet was like a scalpel - I thought Lowbrowscientist was cutting out her 11s


It *looked* almost as bad as that!

And now I know why: the diabetic lancets have a beveled cutting edge. : /

Dr Fernandez (I think?) states that injection needles shouldn't be used because they have a cutting edge that can cause scarring, and the lancets have the same thing. I REALLY hope I haven't made things worse. I definitely see no improvement, but that means nothing at this stage. I guess I'll just have to cough up the cash for a 3 line if I want to get rid of these lines ... or maybe i can just try Foxe's method with a thin sewing needle? Am I a glutton for punishment?


Those needles that owndoc offers are the BEST I"ve seen. Sewing needles are too thick - and might cause scar tissue instead of what we want. Owndoc's rollers are not expensive and you can get 2 single needles with an order - it's worth getting from her just for those.

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ammoniasmith
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Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:34 am      Reply with quote
Well, for research purposes I will go ahead with the lancets. I really wished that Lowbrowscientist would report back.

I see the statements made by Dr. Fernandez but I really would have liked it if he could give reasons as to how he knows this. Like did he have histology of beveled needle points versus stiletto needle points? Given the same size needle (width) with different point shapes are we really causing too much damage?

I will proceed cautiously with some old scars and replacing the lancets frequently to maintain a sharp point. I figure no more than 30 pricks with each lancet.
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