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DermaRoller

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Keliu
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:57 pm      Reply with quote
Firefox7275 wrote:
The most often recommended post-rolling products contain vitamins A, C or D. Vitamin E can be helpful alongside but IMO you are missing a trick to rely on that alone.


The Holy Trinity for post rolling application is actually Vitamins A, C and E.

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Keliu
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:58 pm      Reply with quote
Firefox7275 wrote:
The most often recommended post-rolling products contain vitamins A, C or D. Vitamin E can be helpful alongside but IMO you are missing a trick to rely on that alone.


The Holy Trinity for post rolling application is actually Vitamins A, C and E.

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Firefox7275
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Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:36 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Firefox7275 wrote:
The most often recommended post-rolling products contain vitamins A, C or D. Vitamin E can be helpful alongside but IMO you are missing a trick to rely on that alone.


The Holy Trinity for post rolling application is actually Vitamins A, C and E.


Confusingly it depends who you ask! I've seen a couple of sources recommend D, including OwnDoc. Laughing I believe the new dermarolling textbook is pushing the anti-inflammatory angle, whereas on forums many will advise avoiding anything with such properties ... which vitamin E has. Not that I have or am counselling against it, I suggested not relying on it alone.

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Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:20 am      Reply with quote
Quote:

Confusingly it depends who you ask! I've seen a couple of sources recommend D, including OwnDoc. Laughing I believe the new dermarolling textbook is pushing the anti-inflammatory angle, whereas on forums many will advise avoiding anything with such properties ... which vitamin E has. Not that I have or am counselling against it, I suggested not relying on it alone.


Right now I usually put A&D ointment on right afterwards. I also take vitamins E, C, Omega-3, and Lysine daily, and will probably add Cod Fish Oil since it has vitamins A and D in it too (not really sure if it has D have to look up more). Although I'm not sure whether I should stop the whole vitamin E thing.
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Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:26 am      Reply with quote
I don't do dermaroller anymore but I would think that copper peptides by Dr Pikart would be great after dermarolling....
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Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:44 am      Reply with quote
daler wrote:
I don't do dermaroller anymore but I would think that copper peptides by Dr Pikart would be great after dermarolling....


The book recently published by Dr. Setterfield recommends CPs at day 5 or later.

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Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:44 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
If you read about the wound healing cascade in the dermarolling studies, you will see that inflammation is a required part of the process. I personally don't do anything to limit inflammation for at least 3 days.

Here is a great article on the wound healing phases, and the importance of inflammation...see page 57. You will also see in the same article that it is important to pre and post treat with Vit A and C.

http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf

And here is the link to other studies and articles on dermarolling:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

Alternatively, you can purchase a book recently written on rolling by a doctor who trained under Dr. Fernandes:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Concise-Guide-Dermal-Needling/dp/0473173212

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Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:56 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
daler wrote:
I don't do dermaroller anymore but I would think that copper peptides by Dr Pikart would be great after dermarolling....


The book recently published by Dr. Setterfield recommends CPs at day 5 or later.


Bethany, will you be using the AnteAGE after rolling, and if so, what day will you add that in on?
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Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:22 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
Bethany, will you be using the AnteAGE after rolling, and if so, what day will you add that in on?


I am going to try it post roll, but will not use it until about day 5. But I want to do a little more reading in the new book and see if that changes my mind at all. I'll let you know what I decide.

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rileygirl
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Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:53 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:


I am going to try it post roll, but will not use it until about day 5. But I want to do a little more reading in the new book and see if that changes my mind at all. I'll let you know what I decide.


Ok. Great, and thanks. I was thinking day 5, as well. I know Dr. J said his cytokines were anti-inflammatory, and I thought we wanted the inflammatory process to take place for the first 1-5 days.
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Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:58 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
bethany wrote:
If you read about the wound healing cascade in the dermarolling studies, you will see that inflammation is a required part of the process. I personally don't do anything to limit inflammation for at least 3 days.

Here is a great article on the wound healing phases, and the importance of inflammation...see page 57. You will also see in the same article that it is important to pre and post treat with Vit A and C.

http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf

And here is the link to other studies and articles on dermarolling:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

Alternatively, you can purchase a book recently written on rolling by a doctor who trained under Dr. Fernandes:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Concise-Guide-Dermal-Needling/dp/0473173212


I wish I could give you 10 "thank you's" for this post! (♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥) Guess I can Very Happy

The links you have shared (from day one of your rolling adventure) should be required reading before anyone dares to pick up a roller.

Personally, I have enjoyed all of your input on the subject from day one. It is only at this late date that I finally found the courage to purchase a roller, but thanks to you I have a good foundation of knowledge going in.

Thanks Beth ♥

ETA: Your statement I bolded above, is extremely important. I will NOT be interupting the inflammatory phase for 2 days (with anything anti-inflammatory!)

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Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:59 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy, you are very welcome.

I agree with your required reading statement, and generally don't post on this thread anymore because of the lack of desire to learn how dermarolling really works. Some of the misinformation and crazy practices are rather troublesome to me. Sad

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Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:01 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
bethany wrote:


I am going to try it post roll, but will not use it until about day 5. But I want to do a little more reading in the new book and see if that changes my mind at all. I'll let you know what I decide.


Ok. Great, and thanks. I was thinking day 5, as well. I know Dr. J said his cytokines were anti-inflammatory, and I thought we wanted the inflammatory process to take place for the first 1-5 days.


Grrr...I can't find the darn book! But I am very comfortable sticking with the 5 days

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Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:06 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Kassy, you are very welcome.

I agree with your required reading statement, and generally don't post on this thread anymore because of the lack of desire to learn how dermarolling really works. Some of the misinformation and crazy practices are rather troublesome to me. Sad


Keliu posted the link with so much information you posted Bethany, on the dermarolling for product penetration thread:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

These along with the pdf's I downloaded are what I intend to go to even more so than the book!

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Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:09 am      Reply with quote
I just want to add my thanks to Bethany as well.I have also followed her progress from the beginning and read her references and links too,I have to say if it hadnt been for her diligence and academic rigour in her research I would never ever have considered dermarolling at all. so cheers Bethany

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Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:44 pm      Reply with quote
10Sylvia5 wrote:
I just want to add my thanks to Bethany as well.I have also followed her progress from the beginning and read her references and links too,I have to say if it hadnt been for her diligence and academic rigour in her research I would never ever have considered dermarolling at all. so cheers Bethany


Thanks...I am so glad someone actually read that stuff! It really works if you do it correctly!

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Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:58 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:

Ok. Great, and thanks. I was thinking day 5, as well. I know Dr. J said his cytokines were anti-inflammatory, and I thought we wanted the inflammatory process to take place for the first 1-5 days.


As far as I can tell it is possible to side step or leapfrog the inflammatory part of the healing cascade to some extent with certain actives. It's only if you eliminate or substantially reduce inflammation without, say, upregulating fibroblast activity you have poor or delayed healing. This has been demonstrated in joint injury with certain anti-inflammatory drugs. But few of us are using actives that only have an anti-inflammatory effect, nor are we able to completely eliminate the inflammatory process and hence halt the healing cascade. Consider the research on aloe vera: anti-inflammatory yet increases collagen synthesis and speeds wound healing.

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Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:38 am      Reply with quote
I've always been torn between using CPs immediately after a roll or waiting a bit (due to their anti-inflammatory actions), but then I still think they are useful right away due to their other actions besides the anti-inflammatory ones:


Quote:
The actions of copper peptides in humans and animals are:

1. In humans: Rebuilds aged skin (tightens skin, improves elasticity and firmness, reduces fine lines, wrinkles, photodamage, and hyperpigmentation). Stimulates wound healing. Improves human hair growth and hair transplant success. Act as anti-inflammatories on irritated skin.

2. In animals: Stimulate wound healing in numerous animal models, improves human hair growth and skin transplant success. Protects and repairs gastric and intestinal lining, accelerates bone repair, increases infection resistance. Lowers blood pressure by inducing vasodilation of blood vessels

3. Cellular actions on Stem Cells: Increases protein p63. This protein activates adult stem cells. The primary cause of human aging is a decline in organ function with time. Up to about age 20, tissue and organs are maintained in a very functional and healthy state. But with aging, repair slows and in time humans organs fail to fulfill their biological role. Adult stem cells in organs create new cells for repair and the key protein in activating and supporting stem cell function appears to be protein P63. Without adequate P63, skin ages rapidly as do other tissue of the body.

4. Cellular actions of Repair Cells: Increases the proliferation of fibroblasts, keratinocytes, chondrocytes, osteoblasts. Chemoattracts immune cells important in repair: Macrophages, mast cells, capillary cells.

5. Actions on Growth Factors: Increases vascular endothelial growth factor, fibroblast growth factor 2, nerve growth factor, neutrotropins 3 and 4, erythropoietin.

6. Actions on Proteins of the Extracellular matrix: Increases synthesis of decorin, collagen, elastin, proteoglycans, glycosoaminoglycans. Increases both metalloproteinases that remove older proteins and anti-proteases that block metalloproteinase action. The balance of these proteins governs the rate of remodeling.

Decorin has anti-scarring actions. It also slows tumor growth and cancer metastasis. It increases nerve and muscle regeneration.

7. Organ actions: Increases nerve outgrowth, blood vessel angiogenesis, density of subcutaneous fat cells, and hair follicle size.

8. Anti-Inflammatory Actions- Increases anti-inflammatory proteins (superoxide dismutase, decorin), blocks the release of oxidizing iron from ferritin, suppresses inflammatory cytokines (transforming growth factor beta-1, tumor necrosis factor alpha, interleukin 1), blocks cellular damage by oxygen free radicals and reactive carbonyl species, reduces protein glycation, improves fibroblast recovery after X-ray treatments, blocks ultraviolet damage to skin keratinocytes, increases and reduces thromboxane formation, protects hepatic tissue from tetrachloromethane poisoning, inhibits protein glycation

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Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:39 am      Reply with quote
I do have to add that I've had some fantastic results using CPs right after a roll, so I do some rolls with and some without applying CPs right after.

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Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:38 pm      Reply with quote
Hi There,

I brought a 1.0mm Derma roller from ebay recently and started using it based on some demo videos in Youtube.

1)First thing I used it 4 times a week.
2)used pure alo vera gel and bio oil in turns before and after using the roller.

After couple of weeks my skin surrounding my mouth became very dark (terribly dark) and dry. Lot of new scars and pigmentations started developing on my cheeks -chin and area surrounding my mouth. I just look horrible now with different skin tones around my mouth and rest of face and pigmentations .

I was not sure if it was because of dermaroller or my way of using it or the gel i used. As I noticed this changes only after using dermaroller.

Can any one please help me any suggestion or information to get back my normal skin and skin tone.
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Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:43 pm      Reply with quote
Sanju wrote:
Hi There,

I brought a 1.0mm Derma roller from ebay recently and started using it based on some demo videos in Youtube.

1)First thing I used it 4 times a week.
2)used pure alo vera gel and bio oil in turns before and after using the roller.

After couple of weeks my skin surrounding my mouth became very dark (terribly dark) and dry. Lot of new scars and pigmentations started developing on my cheeks -chin and area surrounding my mouth. I just look horrible now with different skin tones around my mouth and rest of face and pigmentations .

I was not sure if it was because of dermaroller or my way of using it or the gel i used. As I noticed this changes only after using dermaroller.

Can any one please help me any suggestion or information to get back my normal skin and skin tone.


4 times a week is too much Sanju!!!! Also, this can cause hyper pigmentation in darker skin tone.. the only solution I can think of is to stop using it and hyper pigmentation should lesseon/disappear over the next couple of months or so...
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Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:50 am      Reply with quote
daler wrote:
Sanju wrote:
Hi There,

I brought a 1.0mm Derma roller from ebay recently and started using it based on some demo videos in Youtube.

1)First thing I used it 4 times a week.
2)used pure alo vera gel and bio oil in turns before and after using the roller.

After couple of weeks my skin surrounding my mouth became very dark (terribly dark) and dry. Lot of new scars and pigmentations started developing on my cheeks -chin and area surrounding my mouth. I just look horrible now with different skin tones around my mouth and rest of face and pigmentations .

I was not sure if it was because of dermaroller or my way of using it or the gel i used. As I noticed this changes only after using dermaroller.

Can any one please help me any suggestion or information to get back my normal skin and skin tone.


4 times a week is too much Sanju!!!! Also, this can cause hyper pigmentation in darker skin tone.. the only solution I can think of is to stop using it and hyper pigmentation should lesseon/disappear over the next couple of months or so...



For anyone wanting to try a dermaroller - either for product penetration or a deeper roll - you **REALLY** need to take time to read thru this thread. There are great studies, links etc. posted throughout.

Why risk it? This is an invasive procedure.

I am planning to do a deeper roll in a few months... but believe me, I am going to research exactly what to do and take the required time to prep my skin using A and C.

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Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:00 am      Reply with quote
erg wrote:
daler wrote:
Sanju wrote:
Hi There,

I brought a 1.0mm Derma roller from ebay recently and started using it based on some demo videos in Youtube.

1)First thing I used it 4 times a week.
2)used pure alo vera gel and bio oil in turns before and after using the roller.

After couple of weeks my skin surrounding my mouth became very dark (terribly dark) and dry. Lot of new scars and pigmentations started developing on my cheeks -chin and area surrounding my mouth. I just look horrible now with different skin tones around my mouth and rest of face and pigmentations .

I was not sure if it was because of dermaroller or my way of using it or the gel i used. As I noticed this changes only after using dermaroller.

Can any one please help me any suggestion or information to get back my normal skin and skin tone.


4 times a week is too much Sanju!!!! Also, this can cause hyper pigmentation in darker skin tone.. the only solution I can think of is to stop using it and hyper pigmentation should lesseon/disappear over the next couple of months or so...



For anyone wanting to try a dermaroller - either for product penetration or a deeper roll - you **REALLY** need to take time to read thru this thread. There are great studies, links etc. posted throughout.

Why risk it? This is an invasive procedure.

I am planning to do a deeper roll in a few months... but believe me, I am going to research exactly what to do and take the required time to prep my skin using A and C.


Absolutely erg,

I could not agree more, I am reading everything (valid) that I can even before my small roll! Smile

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Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:23 am      Reply with quote
Sanju wrote:
Hi There,

I brought a 1.0mm Derma roller from ebay recently and started using it based on some demo videos in Youtube.

1)First thing I used it 4 times a week.
2)used pure alo vera gel and bio oil in turns before and after using the roller.

After couple of weeks my skin surrounding my mouth became very dark (terribly dark) and dry. Lot of new scars and pigmentations started developing on my cheeks -chin and area surrounding my mouth. I just look horrible now with different skin tones around my mouth and rest of face and pigmentations .

I was not sure if it was because of dermaroller or my way of using it or the gel i used. As I noticed this changes only after using dermaroller.

Can any one please help me any suggestion or information to get back my normal skin and skin tone.


Shock Agree with Daler, it is not recommended to use a 1mm roller more often than every four weeks or so. Please don't rely on YouTubers as a source of information on dermatological procedures, most hold no qualifications in aesthetics, dermatology or any other medical discipline and you have no way of knowing the quality of their research.

The dark and dry likely indicates dead skin much as is seen after a chemical peel. This area must be kept fully hydrated at all times with a thick layer of cream or ointment and allowed to exfoliate naturally. The remainder might indicate post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation. IMO baby your skin until it appears healed - no flaking, roughness, erythema or lesions - probably at least a month. Then add in proven but gentle actives such as those found in DragoN's KinNiaNag serum. What are you cleansing and exfoliating with, shaving too if relevant?

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Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:20 am      Reply with quote
Just came across this article which mentions both DrS and DrF - I don't think it's been posted before:

http://www.lneonline.com/featured_article/archive/?201202

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