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DermaRoller

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Keliu
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Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:22 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
This one is good! 5 drops ='s 10,000 (which is what most recommend in a 1oz serum)... I use 10 drops most of the time. You'll have more than enough for at least a year!

http://www.iherb.com/InterPlexus-Inc-NutriSorb-A-Liquid-Vitamin-A-0-6-fl-oz-17-ml/31265?at=0


Kassy - According to MakingCosmetics, 10 drops of vitamin A per 100g (3.5oz) cream gives 8'500 IU/g. So that would mean that only about 3 drops would be applicable for 1oz.

However, I don't know whether comparing a food grade Vitamin A with the Making Cosmetics product is like comparing apples with apples. (In fact I'm usually concerned about using food grade supplements for topical use).

Anyway, I was going to combine the iHerb Retinyl Palmitate with Vitamin E, Oil Soluble C and Safflower Oil.

Any thoughts????

ETA: Personal Formulator has the usage percentage at 0.2 - 0.5%

http://www.personalformulator.com/wvss/product_info.php?products_id=648

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Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:27 pm      Reply with quote
How about Infadolan of Owndoc?

http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?infadolan-pid177.html
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Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:52 pm      Reply with quote
summer2004 wrote:
How about Infadolan of Owndoc?

http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?infadolan-pid177.html


I think this would be fine - but for myself, I don't like using creams, only oils, because I have Sebaceous Hyperplasia.

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Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:13 pm      Reply with quote
I have started adding a lanolin and Shea butter to my oil based DIY a c and e serum to make it more occlusive like the ointment from own doc. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

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Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:53 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Kassy_A wrote:
This one is good! 5 drops ='s 10,000 (which is what most recommend in a 1oz serum)... I use 10 drops most of the time. You'll have more than enough for at least a year!

http://www.iherb.com/InterPlexus-Inc-NutriSorb-A-Liquid-Vitamin-A-0-6-fl-oz-17-ml/31265?at=0


Kassy - According to MakingCosmetics, 10 drops of vitamin A per 100g (3.5oz) cream gives 8'500 IU/g. So that would mean that only about 3 drops would be applicable for 1oz.

However, I don't know whether comparing a food grade Vitamin A with the Making Cosmetics product is like comparing apples with apples. (In fact I'm usually concerned about using food grade supplements for topical use).

Anyway, I was going to combine the iHerb Retinyl Palmitate with Vitamin E, Oil Soluble C and Safflower Oil.

Any thoughts????

ETA: Personal Formulator has the usage percentage at 0.2 - 0.5%

http://www.personalformulator.com/wvss/product_info.php?products_id=648


I didn't have time to check the product you're comparing from "making cosmetics", but the "liquid A" product I linked is "retinyl palmitate, 1 drop ='s 2500 IU. Therefore, 5 drops ='s 10,000 IU's. If you have the "DIY Info-Pak", he suggests 2, 10,000 IU gelcap contents, to 1oz of serum, so that's what I went with.. Laughing

I seldom recommend or use supplements in my DIY skincare. The exceptions for me are Vitamin A (ret palmitate), Vitamin E (mixed tocopherols) and pure Opti-MSM. Checking the labels is a must though, because some are not pure. Also, because retinyl palmitate is always suspended in oil/glycerin at DIY suppliers, why shouldn't I just go for the exact same thing in supplement form.. (Same stuff, 1/3rd of the price, win-win!)

Re your serum plan, have you considered mixing up several oils rather than just using safflower? I've tried them all and have actually arrived at a nice (beneficial) mix I'm happy with for rolling.

Also, if you are sick and tired of paying the ridiculous prices for THDA, I'd highly recommend replacing that with (oil soluble) Ascorbyl Palmitate (C-Ester).. Excellent product, and some nice research behind it. (I'm using L-AA less and less, so that should tell you something.. Laughing I never thought I'd say those words.. Embarassed )

Did another .25 last night. I was less aggressive and did a few less passes. I think I will keep on that way 2 or 3 times per week. I am shocked by the difference it is making to product absorption. Truly unbelievable! I'm hooked, no doubt....

....Image



*Couldn't find a rototiller emoticon.. Laughing *

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Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:05 pm      Reply with quote
Very Happy Glad you like the asc. palm. too, Kassy! It went out of style after a study (in vitro) showed that uv could make the palmitate oxidise and generate ROS. So to be on the safe side, better to use it at night I guess. Perfect for rolling, no irritation at all.
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Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:25 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
I didn't have time to check the product you're comparing from "making cosmetics", but the "liquid A" product I linked is "retinyl palmitate, 1 drop ='s 2500 IU. Therefore, 5 drops ='s 10,000 IU's. If you have the "DIY Info-Pak", he suggests 2, 10,000 IU gelcap contents, to 1oz of serum, so that's what I went with.. Laughing

I seldom recommend or use supplements in my DIY skincare. The exceptions for me are Vitamin A (ret palmitate), Vitamin E (mixed tocopherols) and pure Opti-MSM. Checking the labels is a must though, because some are not pure. Also, because retinyl palmitate is always suspended in oil/glycerin at DIY suppliers, why shouldn't I just go for the exact same thing in supplement form.. (Same stuff, 1/3rd of the price, win-win!)

Re your serum plan, have you considered mixing up several oils rather than just using safflower? I've tried them all and have actually arrived at a nice (beneficial) mix I'm happy with for rolling.

Also, if you are sick and tired of paying the ridiculous prices for THDA, I'd highly recommend replacing that with (oil soluble) Ascorbyl Palmitate (C-Ester).. Excellent product, and some nice research behind it. (I'm using L-AA less and less, so that should tell you something.. Laughing I never thought I'd say those words.. Embarassed )

Did another .25 last night. I was less aggressive and did a few less passes. I think I will keep on that way 2 or 3 times per week. I am shocked by the difference it is making to product absorption. Truly unbelievable! I'm hooked, no doubt....


You're having a "senior moment" - 5 x 2,500 = 12,500!! What "DIY Info pack" are you referring to?

I use lots of different oils - but I decided on Safflower Oil for post roll due to a specific reason - and now I've forgotten what it is Rolling Eyes (that's my senior moment!)

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Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:49 am      Reply with quote
A thought on the wound healing cascade and rolling frequency:

As I understand, it is generally thought that the further from the heart a wound occurs, the longer it takes to heal. Also that healing in the face is especially fast compared to the rest of the body due to good blood circulation. E.g. I had stitches in the forehead that was removed after 5 days and stitches on the foot that was removed only after 3 weeks.

Could it be that we should be adjusting the frequency of rolls accordingly? If the 21-30 days between rolls is advised for say the face, then maybe one should wait even longer between rolls on the body??
I don't know if the data on the wound healing cascade is from the face, so this is just set as an example.

Any thoughts?
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Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:39 pm      Reply with quote
These could be good for post roll:

http://www.adorebeauty.com.au/alpha-h/alpha-h-a-c-e-skin-vitamins-set.html?utm_source=Adore+Beauty+Rewards&utm_campaign=673ad49637-Latest_Greatest_1408128_13_2012&utm_medium=email&mc_cid=673ad49637&mc_eid=33c225d267

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Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:12 am      Reply with quote
I'm studying Occupational Therapy and currently studying pathophysiology. The patho subject itself has naturally pushed me towards the derma roller, what once seemed insane now makes perfect sense. I have my roller ordered from owndoc and nervously awaiting its arrival. I have access to medical journals while I study and have found lots of promising articles. Fingers crossed it's as effective for me!

On a side note: Beth, your rolling theory is the route I'm taking. It makes sense with what I've learnt about inflammation. The inflammation is necessary for the healing, but it's still damaging and has long term effects. I'm going to try and roll 3 times, 6-8 weeks apart to bring on short bursts of acute inflammation and avoid chronic inflammation altogether. You've been a great source of information, you should help me study for my exam Smile
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Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:16 am      Reply with quote
Hi Sunlit,

Which length of the needle did you order?
sunlit
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Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:09 am      Reply with quote
I got the 1mm, although I would have preferred the 1.5. I figured the 1mm was worth the purchase for the first try and then if I'm still alive a week later I'll get re-order Smile
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Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:07 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:

You're having a "senior moment" - 5 x 2,500 = 12,500!! What "DIY Info pack" are you referring to?


I'll say! Laughing Now I know why I'm having so many "flakes".. (20,000 IU per ounce seems to be a good target number!)

It's Dr Todorov's DIY Info-pack; (he recommends using two 10,000 IU softgels per oz of base product!. http://www.smartskincare.com/infopacks/infopack2.html ... It's very basic, but pretty good for newbie DIY'ers..(One exception though; He recommends "stirring the actives into the base with your finger, so the body heat helps everything blend well." (OY! Shock )

Keliu wrote:
I use lots of different oils - but I decided on Safflower Oil for post roll due to a specific reason - and now I've forgotten what it is Rolling Eyes (that's my senior moment!)


Laughing When we get to be this old, we're entitled to a few senior moments... Wink

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
Keliu
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Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:46 pm      Reply with quote
Lotusesther wrote:
Very Happy Glad you like the asc. palm. too, Kassy! It went out of style after a study (in vitro) showed that uv could make the palmitate oxidise and generate ROS. So to be on the safe side, better to use it at night I guess. Perfect for rolling, no irritation at all.


This is a pertinent study on the above point:

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v119/n5/full/5601674a.html

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Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:59 pm      Reply with quote
sunlit wrote:
I'm studying Occupational Therapy and currently studying pathophysiology. The patho subject itself has naturally pushed me towards the derma roller, what once seemed insane now makes perfect sense. I have my roller ordered from owndoc and nervously awaiting its arrival. I have access to medical journals while I study and have found lots of promising articles. Fingers crossed it's as effective for me!

On a side note: Beth, your rolling theory is the route I'm taking. It makes sense with what I've learnt about inflammation. The inflammation is necessary for the healing, but it's still damaging and has long term effects. I'm going to try and roll 3 times, 6-8 weeks apart to bring on short bursts of acute inflammation and avoid chronic inflammation altogether. You've been a great source of information, you should help me study for my exam Smile


I'm glad I was able to help, and good luck on both the rolls and the exam!

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Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:03 pm      Reply with quote
Hi, has anyone used this electric roller? It looks like it is trying to be a cross between the Dermapen and a roller. You can get interchangeable heads(different needle lengths and widths) Also the there are more needles and they are thinner.

The roller itself is more expensive(97.50) then owndoc and the different heads come 2 to a pack
(1 narrow, 1 wide but both the same length) They cost 67.50. So buying 2 different width rollers from owndoc would still be cheaper. I am more interested in whether the electric part causes less pain and does a better job. Anyone have any
thoughts. Thanks.

Deluxe Electric DTS Skin Dermal Roller (with Vibration Mechanism)
MMH ID: 59153; Brand: DTS Derma Rollers; Model No: DTS REJUVE


Deluxe Electric DTS Skin Dermal Roller (with Vibration Mechanism)

Mouse-over to zoom; click to expand


Regular Price:  $180.00
Your Price:  $97.50
You Save:  $82.50 (46%)
 


Among the benefits of The Deluxe Skin Roller include:
Dramatically increases effectiveness of hair and skin care . products through increased penetration.
Rejuvenates skin, promotes skin elasticity, increases skin thickness.
Reduces appearance of cellulite, stretch marks, and large pores.
Stimulates hair growth, improves thinning/balding hair areas.
Process is not painful (a tingling sensation).
Cost effective compared to expensive cosmetic laser treatments.
FDA-approved technology based on thousands of years of acupuncture technology.
Can be used on all areas of the scalp, face, neck and body.
Can be used by yourself anytime at your own convenience.
Vibration mechanism reduces discomfort
Removable needle cartridge heads give you flexibility to switch to different needle depths and exchange heads easily


How is The Deluxe Skin Roller Superior to Other Rollers?
Vibration System Leads To Less Discomfort: As the first roller on the market with this feature, the optional vibration can be turned on and off to produce faster and easier penetration, with less force and much deeper needling with less pain. The Vibration Mechanism decreases the contact time between the skin surface and the needles, leading to less discomfort.
More Needles Per Head:The Deluxe Skin Roller has 540 needles needles per roller head, compared to the standard roller that has less than 200 needles per head. With more needles, you have greater penetration in less time.
Thinner Needle Thickness:The needle thickness is 0.20mm, compared to the standard needle thickness of 0.25mm, which means you will have less discomfort and pain during needle therapy.
Needle Shape leads to less pain: The diamond shape of the Deluxe Skin Roller leads to less pain compared to the conventional round shaped needle of other skin rollers. This is because the thickness of the round-shaped needle is twice as large as the diamond shape needle of the Deluxe Roller.


http://www.makemeheal.com/mmh/product.do?id=59153

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Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:45 pm      Reply with quote
sunlit

I am an occupational therapist, too ( I specialised in psychiatry, and yes these forums are a great place to learn, there are many really experienced people here. )

I derma roll, with the .25mm and the 1mm and I too have learned lots from Bethany's posts.

Good luck with your studies, I hope it goes well.
Its a really rewarding job to do when you find your niche.

Sorry if this is a bit bit off topic but its not often one finds another OT here!!!

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Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:40 am      Reply with quote
CookieD wrote:
Hi, has anyone used this electric roller? It looks like it is trying to be a cross between the Dermapen and a roller. You can get interchangeable heads(different needle lengths and widths) Also the there are more needles and they are thinner.

The roller itself is more expensive(97.50) then owndoc and the different heads come 2 to a pack
(1 narrow, 1 wide but both the same length) They cost 67.50. So buying 2 different width rollers from owndoc would still be cheaper. I am more interested in whether the electric part causes less pain and does a better job. Anyone have any
thoughts. Thanks.

Deluxe Electric DTS Skin Dermal Roller (with Vibration Mechanism)
MMH ID: 59153; Brand: DTS Derma Rollers; Model No: DTS REJUVE


Deluxe Electric DTS Skin Dermal Roller (with Vibration Mechanism)

Mouse-over to zoom; click to expand


Regular Price:  $180.00
Your Price:  $97.50
You Save:  $82.50 (46%)
 


Among the benefits of The Deluxe Skin Roller include:
Dramatically increases effectiveness of hair and skin care . products through increased penetration.
Rejuvenates skin, promotes skin elasticity, increases skin thickness.
Reduces appearance of cellulite, stretch marks, and large pores.
Stimulates hair growth, improves thinning/balding hair areas.
Process is not painful (a tingling sensation).
Cost effective compared to expensive cosmetic laser treatments.
FDA-approved technology based on thousands of years of acupuncture technology.
Can be used on all areas of the scalp, face, neck and body.
Can be used by yourself anytime at your own convenience.
Vibration mechanism reduces discomfort
Removable needle cartridge heads give you flexibility to switch to different needle depths and exchange heads easily


How is The Deluxe Skin Roller Superior to Other Rollers?
Vibration System Leads To Less Discomfort: As the first roller on the market with this feature, the optional vibration can be turned on and off to produce faster and easier penetration, with less force and much deeper needling with less pain. The Vibration Mechanism decreases the contact time between the skin surface and the needles, leading to less discomfort.
More Needles Per Head:The Deluxe Skin Roller has 540 needles needles per roller head, compared to the standard roller that has less than 200 needles per head. With more needles, you have greater penetration in less time.
Thinner Needle Thickness:The needle thickness is 0.20mm, compared to the standard needle thickness of 0.25mm, which means you will have less discomfort and pain during needle therapy.
Needle Shape leads to less pain: The diamond shape of the Deluxe Skin Roller leads to less pain compared to the conventional round shaped needle of other skin rollers. This is because the thickness of the round-shaped needle is twice as large as the diamond shape needle of the Deluxe Roller.


http://www.makemeheal.com/mmh/product.do?id=59153


Cookie are you going to try this. If it means less pain I'm all for it!

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Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:44 am      Reply with quote
Doodles I might get it. For now I am just doing some research on it.

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Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:22 pm      Reply with quote
The ones with 540 needles are not very effective, from personal experience. The needles are barely able to penetration because they are so close together, somewhat like a bed of pins. I have a .5mm from owndoc and a 1.5mm with 540 needles and I definitely get a better roll using the .5 192 needle roller.
The 540 needle roller does not have vibration, but I think the vibration is somewhat of a gimmicky and if anything it would create larger 'holes' in the skin, which is not recommended.
Also, there are similar products on eBay with vibration and led light for about 25 bucks so this seems way over priced.
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=150883816248&index=1&nav=SEARCH&nid=60942086871

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Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:40 pm      Reply with quote
kmrmv8 wrote:
The ones with 540 needles are not very effective, from personal experience. The needles are barely able to penetration because they are so close together, somewhat like a bed of pins. I have a .5mm from owndoc and a 1.5mm with 540 needles and I definitely get a better roll using the .5 192 needle roller.
The 540 needle roller does not have vibration, but I think the vibration is somewhat of a gimmicky and if anything it would create larger 'holes' in the skin, which is not recommended.
Also, there are similar products on eBay with vibration and led light for about 25 bucks so this seems way over priced.
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=150883816248&index=1&nav=SEARCH&nid=60942086871


Thanks kmrmv8' I never thought about the lack of penetration with the needles being close together.

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Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:02 pm      Reply with quote
Hey guys! Has anyone here used the roller to minimize pores? I have horrible skin and pores all over my face and I'd really like to reduce their appearance.. Can this be done?
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Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:35 pm      Reply with quote
Hi
I've just bought a 0.2(540 needle) Dermaroller...... think I have chosen the wrong length now after reading bits of this post) will this be ok to start with? I wish to reduce wrinkles around the eyes and lip area. I don't think my pain tolerance will be very good hence why I chose this one. Should I use this a bit or buy bother one at say 1.0 size?

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Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:45 pm      Reply with quote
salster68 wrote:
Hi
I've just bought a 0.2(540 needle) Dermaroller...... think I have chosen the wrong length now after reading bits of this post) will this be ok to start with? I wish to reduce wrinkles around the eyes and lip area. I don't think my pain tolerance will be very good hence why I chose this one. Should I use this a bit or buy bother one at say 1.0 size?


Hi salster, you may want to read the link below. It talks about using the smaller cosmetic rollers but for more than just product penetration. Look at this last page for information about decrease in wrinkles, uv damage, pores etc. The chart is from a study that Bethany posted from Dr. Setterfield.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6482097#6482097

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Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:54 am      Reply with quote
Hi CookieD Very Happy

Hope my message finds you well. Aww thank you so much for pointing me to this thread. I plan to have a good long read of itonce i finish work. I did think when i ordered the 0.2mm that may i had gone too small with the needles but was a bit scared to go mad as ihave never done anything like this. I do hope i get a little improvement with the 0.2mm for wrinkles and then i can get a bigger one to use every so often. Im not very clued up on skincare and gadgets etc

thank you again for all your help

Have a wonderful day and an even better weekend....yay for Friday

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