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DermaRoller

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packratmack
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Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:27 pm      Reply with quote
Glad everything went well bethany. When I use the Emla I feel nothing, just a bit of dread.
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Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:29 pm      Reply with quote
Congratulations, Bethany! What we do for vanity, huh? Hanging out for an hour with bits of freezer wrap stuck to the face, followed by poking thousands of holes in it with needles. A fun evening indeed!! Laughing

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eileenkenney
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:15 pm      Reply with quote
Hi roller girls!

I finally got the courage and just roller for the first time today (used a 1.5 mm owndoc roller). It hurt a fair bit and I heard some "popping" noises as I rolled over my forehead (I think that was needle piercing through my skin). I got red all over like a bad sunburn which faded in an hour or so. However, I didn't bleed...whenever I see it done on a TV show or educational youtube video people get pinpoint blood spots all over. Am I not pressing hard enough? I thought 1.5 mm would be long enough to cause a deeper roll. I'll need to numb myself up if I'm supposed to roll harder as I was pressing as much as I could tolerate. Should I be trying to bleed to get a good roll for collagen synthesis? TIA!

Eileen

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bethany
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:52 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
bethany wrote:
bethany wrote:
Just weighing in on a couple of Environ products....

The Colostrum has possibly reduced some redness for me, but not enough to repurchase. Especially since it seems to cause products layered over it to ball up.

The Frown Serum is not effective on it's own...I am now trying it after using the Focus Cit, but unless you are willing to needle before you apply it, don't waste your $$$.


Just an FYI that I am seeing a smoother forehead after using the Frown Seum in combination with the Focus Cit. Hoever I wonder how much is due to the serum and how much may be inflammation from the daily needling. We'll see how things look a few months from now.


bethany wrote:
rileygirl wrote:
bethany wrote:

Riley, do you know how long the needles are on the Environ cosmetic roller? It didn't say on TOSC.


Bethany, this is the info I got on the Roll-CIT:

There are 108 needles 18 rowx 6 needles per row. The needles protrude 0,2mm, The needles are solid steel and are 0.3mm in length with a tapered point so that the section that goes into the skin is about 0.15 in diameter.


Thanks! Do the needles seem thinner than on the Dr. Roller models? The ones on the Focus Cit are practically invisible!


So I just received my Environ CIT cosmetic roller, and it is TOTALLY a different experience than rolling with a Dr. Roller or Owndoc penetration roller. The needles are practically invisible, and produce much less inflammation and redness for me...a very good thing since the typical .2mm rollers leave me red for more then a day. Shock I am cutting back to CQ2 and hoping for less redness than I was seeing with CQ3, though it seems like it might be the same with the addition of the roller.

I will keep everyone posted!

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bethany
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:57 pm      Reply with quote
eileenkenney wrote:
Hi roller girls!

I finally got the courage and just roller for the first time today (used a 1.5 mm owndoc roller). It hurt a fair bit and I heard some "popping" noises as I rolled over my forehead (I think that was needle piercing through my skin). I got red all over like a bad sunburn which faded in an hour or so. However, I didn't bleed...whenever I see it done on a TV show or educational youtube video people get pinpoint blood spots all over. Am I not pressing hard enough? I thought 1.5 mm would be long enough to cause a deeper roll. I'll need to numb myself up if I'm supposed to roll harder as I was pressing as much as I could tolerate. Should I be trying to bleed to get a good roll for collagen synthesis? TIA!

Eileen


Eileen, I bleed like a stuck pig with a 1mm and Emla...blood literally splattered all over the t shirt I was wearing. Dr F said that histology studies showed that blood release is key to results, so I would be sure to numb up and roll until you see some blood. If you are not seeng blood, I would make sure you are using Retin A and building up the blood vessels in your skin. (do you smoke or have sun damage?)

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eileenkenney
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:32 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
eileenkenney wrote:
Hi roller girls!

I finally got the courage and just roller for the first time today (used a 1.5 mm owndoc roller). It hurt a fair bit and I heard some "popping" noises as I rolled over my forehead (I think that was needle piercing through my skin). I got red all over like a bad sunburn which faded in an hour or so. However, I didn't bleed...whenever I see it done on a TV show or educational youtube video people get pinpoint blood spots all over. Am I not pressing hard enough? I thought 1.5 mm would be long enough to cause a deeper roll. I'll need to numb myself up if I'm supposed to roll harder as I was pressing as much as I could tolerate. Should I be trying to bleed to get a good roll for collagen synthesis? TIA!

Eileen


Eileen, I bleed like a stuck pig with a 1mm and Emla...blood literally splattered all over the t shirt I was wearing. Dr F said that histology studies showed that blood release is key to results, so I would be sure to numb up and roll until you see some blood. If you are not seeng blood, I would make sure you are using Retin A and building up the blood vessels in your skin. (do you smoke or have sun damage?)


Thanks for the reply...I've been using Retin A Micro for the past 6 months or so (I alternate it every other night with a homemade vitamin C serum). I don't smoke and my skin is decent (just a little hyperpigmentation on my cheek bones). I've previously have a bunch of laser treatments done (fotofacials, ematrix, and affirm) - not sure if that would make it harder for me to roll deep? Maybe I'm just a wimp...I'll try numbing up and rolling harder Smile

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eileenkenney
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Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:19 am      Reply with quote
So I numbed myself up tonight and rolled again...still hurt like hell! I did get a few pinpoint bleeds here and there, but still couldn't get the blood bath I've seen in videos despite vigorous rolling. I'll do a treatment once a month and gain some practice (unless I break down at some point and purchase another laser treatment package).

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Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:46 am      Reply with quote
I dermarolled about 5 times about 5 weeks apart. I started in about Mar. I have stopped for now. I have not seen any improvement in that time. I have been using Retin A for about a year maybe longer also Vit C for longer.

Anyway I have never actually bleed, but there are sio many different reports on whether you need to draw blood nor not? I have rolled as hard as I could bear with numbing cream. Got spots but not blood.

I am giving up for now. I am going to have a lower face lift next year and am trying to get my skin in a strong position. Its not bad at the moment but I really want to build as much collegen as possible. I am thinking of having a few IPL treatments as I did have very good success with them a few years ago.

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Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:17 pm      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
I dermarolled about 5 times about 5 weeks apart. I started in about Mar. I have stopped for now. I have not seen any improvement in that time. I have been using Retin A for about a year maybe longer also Vit C for longer.

Anyway I have never actually bleed, but there are sio many different reports on whether you need to draw blood nor not? I have rolled as hard as I could bear with numbing cream. Got spots but not blood.

I am giving up for now. I am going to have a lower face lift next year and am trying to get my skin in a strong position. Its not bad at the moment but I really want to build as much collegen as possible. I am thinking of having a few IPL treatments as I did have very good success with them a few years ago.


Thanks for coming back with this info Bermie. That's a pretty consistent treatment program and to not see results would be grounds for you to claim disappointment.

I also wonder if not producing any significant bleeding would have contributed to your lack of results. Think

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foxe
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Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:20 pm      Reply with quote
Bethany - does that new CIT roller cause any pain for you? My .2 roller from owndoc (not sure if it's a Dr Roller or hers) is still painful on my upper lip and causes me to sneeze a little still on my forehead. Not as much as the longer needle rollers, but still enough.

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Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:30 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
I also wonder if not producing any significant bleeding would have contributed to your lack of results. Think


I'm still confused about the bleeding issue. I have never managed to produce significant bleeding - only a few blood spots here and there. And it seems to me that this is the scenario with most people. To my knowledge, Bethany is the only one who bleeds profusely - but then, she's the only person who has published post-roll photos. So I wonder if Bethany is the only person who is doing this properly or that she just has exceptionally sensitive skin. I know that she has difficulty handling Retin-A - whereas I have no problem with it at all. I also don't have a problem with laser treatments but I think Bethany suffered quite allot of irritation from the one she had.

Also, would I be correct in saying that most of the photos of the very bloody rolls done by Dr. Fernandez were done with a 3mm roller?

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Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:19 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
foxe wrote:
I also wonder if not producing any significant bleeding would have contributed to your lack of results. Think


I'm still confused about the bleeding issue. I have never managed to produce significant bleeding - only a few blood spots here and there. And it seems to me that this is the scenario with most people. To my knowledge, Bethany is the only one who bleeds profusely - but then, she's the only person who has published post-roll photos. So I wonder if Bethany is the only person who is doing this properly or that she just has exceptionally sensitive skin. I know that she has difficulty handling Retin-A - whereas I have no problem with it at all. I also don't have a problem with laser treatments but I think Bethany suffered quite allot of irritation from the one she had.

Also, would I be correct in saying that most of the photos of the very bloody rolls done by Dr. Fernandez were done with a 3mm roller?


I can't remember. Did anyone ever ask Dr. F or Dr. S if you had to draw blood to get results and if that is true how can we explain the increase to collagen/skin thickness etc. with smaller needles that can't draw blood? Confused

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Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:23 pm      Reply with quote
I also forgot to state that I think the extremely intensive, invasive rolls done by Dr. F are done under anaesthetic - not just a numbing cream.

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:10 am      Reply with quote
Random thoughts:

- I recall the same data about bleeding associated with results. My *unscientific* guess here is that it means you are reaching the appropriate depth of skin layer where both results are obtained and yet this same layer is where the capillaries reach. If you are not drawing blood, perhaps your upper layers of skin are sufficiently thickened with collagen or some other type of ECM scar tissue or more likely, *in my opinion* you are not pressing the needles in deeply enough? Remember there is a psychological component here that works against us - it is unnatural to self-inflict injury on the body. This is why I remain convinced more thorough results are obtained when treated by someone else and not ourselves.

BFG
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Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:59 am      Reply with quote
It's hard to know? If someone rolls with a .5mm and draws blood, and someone else rolls with a 1.5mm and does not draw blood? Has one just got thicker skin than the other.

All I know is I can't roll any deeper!! Unless I get hubby to do it! He might enjoy that..lol Its true that we find it hard to inflict pain on ourselves.

One of my issues is cappillaries, which IPL worked very well on a couple of years ago. I actually think rolling made new ones? I can't be positive about this, but they are back and they were 95% gone. Weather that is just normal ageing again or what I am not sure. Also I don't think rolling did anything for pigmentation. Just my 2 cents worth.

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:44 pm      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
It's hard to know? If someone rolls with a .5mm and draws blood, and someone else rolls with a 1.5mm and does not draw blood? Has one just got thicker skin than the other.


Exactly! And if one person can use a 0.2mm everyday without irritation (as is the protocol for product penetration) and someone else suffers allot of trauma - surely this demonstrates that our skins are enormously different.

One other note too - medications such as blood thinners, aspirin and fish oil can effect bleeding. I once made the mistake of getting Botox after I had taken an aspirin and I bled like a stuffed pig, whereas normally I don't.

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:08 pm      Reply with quote
Some good points have been brought up here.

With regards to having skin which reacts differently for everyone. I have areas on my face which react differently.

A couple of areas that were damaged years ago (and, I suspect, are much thinner) will bleed more than other areas on my face. I was hoping to thicken this area up and improve its general overall health (which it has, slowly, over the years, thanks to the topicals I use) with rolling, but this is also an area that is very sensitive and tends to break out very easily. As such, I tend to not roll in these spots if there are blemishes - so it can never get the benefits of a roll. Rolling Eyes

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:20 pm      Reply with quote
I find that the skin on my chest is MUCH more sensitive than the skin on my face. My chest constantly breaks out in rashes and becomes inflamed if I do anything too much.

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:24 pm      Reply with quote
True, try comparing the skin under your eyes to the skin on the backs of your hands...a world of difference. I notice this whenever I treat both at the same time...I probably don't know enough skin science to know which layer(s) are responsible for overall "thickness". Suppose I could research it online if DM isn't around.

More later, BFG
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Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:38 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
foxe wrote:
I also wonder if not producing any significant bleeding would have contributed to your lack of results. Think


I'm still confused about the bleeding issue. I have never managed to produce significant bleeding - only a few blood spots here and there. And it seems to me that this is the scenario with most people. To my knowledge, Bethany is the only one who bleeds profusely - but then, she's the only person who has published post-roll photos. So I wonder if Bethany is the only person who is doing this properly or that she just has exceptionally sensitive skin. I know that she has difficulty handling Retin-A - whereas I have no problem with it at all. I also don't have a problem with laser treatments but I think Bethany suffered quite allot of irritation from the one she had.

Also, would I be correct in saying that most of the photos of the very bloody rolls done by Dr. Fernandez were done with a 3mm roller?


I definitely do have sensitive skin, and you are correct that I had a lot of inflammation from the Fraxel treatments I had. And you are also correct that I have issues with Retin A!

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:41 pm      Reply with quote
CookieD wrote:
Keliu wrote:
foxe wrote:
I also wonder if not producing any significant bleeding would have contributed to your lack of results. Think


I'm still confused about the bleeding issue. I have never managed to produce significant bleeding - only a few blood spots here and there. And it seems to me that this is the scenario with most people. To my knowledge, Bethany is the only one who bleeds profusely - but then, she's the only person who has published post-roll photos. So I wonder if Bethany is the only person who is doing this properly or that she just has exceptionally sensitive skin. I know that she has difficulty handling Retin-A - whereas I have no problem with it at all. I also don't have a problem with laser treatments but I think Bethany suffered quite allot of irritation from the one she had.

Also, would I be correct in saying that most of the photos of the very bloody rolls done by Dr. Fernandez were done with a 3mm roller?


I can't remember. Did anyone ever ask Dr. F or Dr. S if you had to draw blood to get results and if that is true how can we explain the increase to collagen/skin thickness etc. with smaller needles that can't draw blood? Confused


I think they were with 3mm rollers. And Riley quoted Dr F from an email exchange with him, and he did say that histology reports showed better results with blood release. I'll look for the quote.

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:45 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
I definitely do have sensitive skin, and you are correct that I had a lot of inflammation from the Fraxel treatments I had. And you are also correct that I have issues with Retin A!


But does that necessarily equate to bleeding profusely when rolling? I try and press relatively hard, but I don't bleed. However, don't most instructions say to apply medium pressure? But I still worry that I'm not doing this properly!

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:25 pm      Reply with quote
This is kind of off topic but does anyone know if you bleed with the Dermapen. I think none of the videos I have seen have shown blood. Is this an indicator of whether it works are not? Confused

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Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:13 pm      Reply with quote
I think pinpricks of blood are sufficient. No need to look like an extra in a horror movie. Unless, you are bethany. Smile Just kidding!
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Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:25 pm      Reply with quote
This may have been addressed here before and I apologize in advance if it has been.. but I was wondering what is the risk of transplanting mole cells, whether benign or malignant via derma roller and thus spreading em .... also same thing with hyper pigmented cells.. thank you
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