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DermaRoller

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Lowbrowscientist
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Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:23 pm      Reply with quote
SylviaKatt wrote:
It didn't take me to page 65, but it was easy to flip over to start there.

I will start reading those pages, thanks. Very Happy


You're welcome! Smile And for what it's worth, is really is an interesting read!

zorilla wrote:
I actually have read this whole (!) thread from start to finish and studied every dermarolling link I found for a year before I started.


Impressive!

It's hard to say what's going on if your face feels different. I think there are some contra-indications for rolling, like if you're prone to certain types of scars (keloids, I believe? It didn't apply to me so I promptly forgot). When you say "firmer skin", though, that seems to me like it would a positive thing, so perhaps that's a sign of improvement?

I'm actually going to re-read pages 65-100 myself, and if anything jumps out at me that seems like it might be relevant, I'll let you know!

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302 (Part one): http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=28855&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0
Lowbrowscientist
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Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:50 pm      Reply with quote
SylviaKatt wrote:


What kind of serum do you suggest after a High Frequency treatment? I've read from other people on here that Vitamin C wasn't suggested right after doing the HF treatments.


I'm using an ultrasound device, and I'm not sure if that's considered HF. I think microcurrent devices like the Bio-wave and the Pico are considered HF, though(?), but they have different treatment protocols.

But for the US, you could use any non-acidic water-based active that's safe to push into the skin. Unfortunately, that pretty much rules out the faithful workhorse products like retin-a and l-ascorbic acid, but you could still use MAP (the non-acid, water-based vit C) and retinyl acetate (water soluble vit A). I'm not sure if they could be used in the same product, but I know Dr. F. used MAP in one of the studies and his client has very good results.

I'm still experimenting with the US, but there is a lot of overlap with products used with US and needling -- generally, if you can use it with a US device, you can use it in dermarolling sessions, too. So when I settle on some good US products, I'll post an update here.

SylviaKatt wrote:
I've noticed some improvement in my skin, especially in my neck area.... in my late 40s, fighting off the sag!


Ugh, I can relate to the sag. I think mine has been creeping up on me and getting worse for awhile and I just didn't notice it. But I think mine was premature when it started, and significant sun damage is the culprit. Hoping to improve things enough to NOT have to resort to surgery Pray, but it's taking me quite awhile to put together a rolling regimen.

Glad you're seeing good results so far... hopefully that continues! Very Happy

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zorilla
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Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:16 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrow, I'm pretty sure it's a bunch of other things rather than dermarolling that made my skin hard. I was getting paranoid about it, but I'm pretty sure it's inflammation from a few other things I've been doing and now I'm being a bit kinder to my skin.

I think if I'm on the needling path, I have to be careful with exfoliation and use of acids - just what my skin is telling me.

I don't scar easily, or at all, generally, so that was helpful to think about, thanks. Wink
morocha
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Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:37 am      Reply with quote
Can I dry brush my skin with my Clarisonic before needling? I'd also like to know if it's fine or not recommended to dry brush face and specially with a clarisonic and how often?

I will be needling my skin once a week with a 1 mm Dr. Roller dermaroller.

Thank You!
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Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:57 pm      Reply with quote
About Downtime:

It is a nuisance. The day after my serious needling (1.5) only my partner gets to see me. I don't go out at all. The next day I can put some concealer on the more intense lines I've needled (eg above lips and parenthesis lines).

But I've just had an absolutely horrific experience with A-Ret (tretinoin cream). I used the mildest (.025) and put it sparingly over my face and chest/throat. The next day both were a bit red and stingy. The face healed up ok by the next day, but my throat and chest were blotchy and extremely, horribly itchy for 10 days, just starting to improve. Now that's real downtime! Putting sunblock on to go out and then rinsing it off with a cleansing foam gave me another itchy/blotchy relapse. I'm so scared of that stuff now, can't even use sunblock or any other product on my throat and chest (wearing ugly men's shirts when I go out!)

SO: my experiences with needling have been: very painful at the time, a bit of downtime (though no itch or pain after the process) but then quick healing and great results. My experience with A-Ret has been: scary chemical burn, still not healed fully after two weeks.
Pamma
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Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:46 am      Reply with quote
About down time for me:
I usually turn quite red for 2 days, doesn't seem to matter what needle length after .5. Day 3 I'm starting to be a bit brownish at which time my skins starts to feel a little rough/peely, this will last for a while,,,maybe 4-5 days. I do nothing to assist it in exfoliating, I let it heal all on its own. Brown starts to fade out slowly and my skin color looks very nice after about 2 weeks( this brownish tone to my skin doesn't look bad, sorta looks like a tan but I live in Alaska so looks a bit odd against the rest of my fish belly white skin ) Shock
I've been rolling off n on since 2010. It will NOT prevent or reverse sag. Sorry. I'm not convinced it will get rid of under eye lines or wrinkles,yet(perhaps work in progress???) But texture and tone and some scars will improve greatly.Smile
Pamma
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Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:36 am      Reply with quote
I'm not sure how to edit my last post but I need to say it's just my opinion and experience and countless hours of reading and researching that leads me to believe that rolling doesn't prevent sag. I would love to be wrong tho! Twould be a nice bonus,,,my apologies for the bold statement Embarassed
hydrogeogirl
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Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:39 am      Reply with quote
Hi!

I did my first dermaroll of 2014, this being the start of my 7th year of 6 rolls per year with either a 1.5 mm although the past 4 rolls have been with a 2.0 mm.

I usually roll on a Friday eve and do not leave the house for the weekend. This gives me 3 full nights of recovery time.

This time, I rolled on Saturday morning. My roll was my most intense roll to date.

My protocol, which I have posted before, is to do FlexEffect exercises, a 10 minute pumpkin peel, EMLA under plastic for one hour, rolling and then I use a red LED (based on recommendation by esthetician). I know that the LED use goes against avoiding anti-inflammatory stuff so last year I did not use LED after half my rolls and I prefer using the LED. The recommendation is due to the open channels in the skin which allow penetration of the LED. I am open to revising this with more information.

I make my own oil soluble C and A serum that I apply after the roll.

I roll my eyes the same as my face because after the first few years my eye skin was not as rejuvenated as the rest of my face and now I treat my eye and neck area the same as the rest of my face with great results.

After my roll, I was extremely red, with one black eye, and very swollen. My most inflamed ever. Late Sunday when I realized I would not be recovered by Monday for work, I began applying fresh aloe vera with ultrasound. I was so swollen, red, and inflamed that I needed to begin to enhance my healing. I slept with sliced fresh aloe vera on my skin over night to speed up the healing. On Monday, I went to work in the afternoon, with zinc/titanium sunscreen and mineral makeup. Cover up and glasses hid my black eye. By Tuesday, the cover up and makeup hid my recovery well.

The miracle is that by Wednesday, four days after my intense roll, my face was completely healed including my black eye. My skin is glowing.

From now on, I will continue doing my dermarolls on a Friday eve, no more Saturday morning dermarolls as I need three nights to recover.

Of course, you should make your routine fit your requirements and comfort level. I write about my experience here to let you know that, for me, dermarolling is amazing. I cannot believe how quickly my skin always recovers, even after this very intense 2.0 mm roll.

For me, FE, DR, and DIY cosmeceuticals are prime components of my favorite skin care routine.

During my recovery, I drank 20 oz of fresh green juice daily, starting Sunday eve I used a steam room for 30 minutes for 3 days, and did one hour of cardio per day and yoga to help with circulation.

People are very kind and often tell me that my skin is amazing.

Best wishes in your skin care pursuits.

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58 in 2/2017. Author of "Skin Remodeling DIY, An Introduction to the Underground World of Do-It-Yourself Skin Care" May 2015. Sunscreen/skin protection, DIY C serum, firming serums, Retin-A, OCM, FlexEffect from 2002, lymphatic massage, 6 rolls/year 1.5 mm derma roller from 2008, Infrared/Red LED from 2009, Galvanic/Ultrasound intermittently
Dragonwell
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Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:22 pm      Reply with quote
Can anyone please help me with these simple questions


- Is it oke to dab dermaroller needles in a cup of alcohol before and after use , is it then sanitized ?


- I am following a daily anti stretch marks regimen of this order aha soap - retin a - vitamin c serum - lactic acid lotion - re-gen oil
Is it too much to apply al this in this order ?

- On dermaroll day , should i avoid using the regimen i follow ?
SylviaKatt
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Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:29 pm      Reply with quote
Dragonwell wrote:
Can anyone please help me with these simple questions


- Is it oke to dab dermaroller needles in a cup of alcohol before and after use , is it then sanitized ?


Yes! I let roller sit in alcohol cup, then rinse with water before use. After use, I rinse with hot water, and let soak in alcohol cup for awhile. Then let it dry on a towel, and store in its case.
Needl
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Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:16 pm      Reply with quote
I think you should follow detailed instructions for sanitizing your rollers. Owndoc has detailed instructions available free online. We are doing something potentially harmful here and it must be done hygienically.
Dragonwell
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Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:27 am      Reply with quote
Thank you so much for answering my question !

My regimen goes like this

aha soap - retin a - vitamin c - aha lotion - re-gen oil , is this too much for stretch marks ?

And should i apply this regimen too on dermaroll day ? Do you people use your topical stretch mark regimen the same day you dermaroll ?
Lowbrowscientist
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Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:42 am      Reply with quote
For those interested in using estriol cream in conjunction with rolling, I rolled about a week and a half ago using a .025mm roller (the shortest needles, used for product penetration and minor surface rejuvenation), with no problems. I'm going to repeat this protocol the next time I use the .025 roller.

The routine:

--cleanse

--swab skin with alcohol or Bactine spray (I used the latter this time, but it doesn't seem to make a difference besides the mild numbing from the Bactine)

--apply a thin layer of 2 estriol creams (premixed, in my palm)

--roll face

--spritz with some water and massage in another thin layer of the (premixed) estriol creams

It probably doesn't make a big difference, but I like to stop after rolling each section, spritz that section, and apply the mixture to that area right away before going on the next.

I wasn't sure if these creams might cause breakouts or other issues when pushed a bit deeper into the skin, so this was an experiment with myself as the guinea pig (as it typically is with these DIY gadgets), and I didn't have any problems. There were no miraculous results, but I don't think it's realistic to expect that after just one session. Even with the shorter needles, I still have a few days of mild inflammation, and about a week of peeling and more dryness than usual. To that end, although some have experienced fairly dramatic improvement just using the shorter needles, I probably won't see that kind of improvement because I get enough of an inflammation/peeling response that I'm not comfortable rolling more than once every couple weeks or so. And when I start rolling once every 4 to 6 weeks with longer needles, I won't be able to use the short needles at all without risking chronic inflammation which could ruin the results of the more intense sessions. So, those more tolerant to .025mm needles might see better results if they roll more frequently.

I used a mix of these estriol creams:

Life-flo Estriol Care: http://www.vitacost.com/life-flo-estriol-care-2-oz

Evalon (Ortho Dienestrol): http://www.alldaychemist.com/evalon.html?___SID=U

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lynnn
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:20 am      Reply with quote
I've read most of this thread & many others on rolling including owndoc.

I've been rolling for almost 2 years with a .5 roller every other day and sometimes every day (just for a couple of minutes - nothing too aggressive) - sometimes I skip a week or 2.

I've had decent results with vit c after the roll & retin a at night. I'm nervous to try a longer needle but know I need to to penetrate deeper. My main areas that I want to improve are eyes & 11s. Would a 1mm be enough?

Also, I have very dry skin and don't want to put alcohol right on my skin or anti bacterial soap. Is there anything else that will work to disinfect my skin before and after - right now I just wash with my regular gentle soap & use a toner. Thanks for your help.

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born 1964, some raw & live foods - medium complexion - sinking eye area yet manage to still have bags, loose, sagging upper eyelids, 11s not as bad as my N/L & M/L, microneedling .5 & 1mm, led, massage, Vit C, A, CP very occasionally, HA, EES, DMAE, MATRIXYL
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:42 am      Reply with quote
lynnn wrote:
I've read most of this thread & many others on rolling including owndoc.

I've been rolling for almost 2 years with a .5 roller every other day and sometimes every day (just for a couple of minutes - nothing too aggressive) - sometimes I skip a week or 2.

I've had decent results with vit c after the roll & retin a at night. I'm nervous to try a longer needle but know I need to to penetrate deeper. My main areas that I want to improve are eyes & 11s. Would a 1mm be enough?

Also, I have very dry skin and don't want to put alcohol right on my skin or anti bacterial soap. Is there anything else that will work to disinfect my skin before and after - right now I just wash with my regular gentle soap & use a toner. Thanks for your help.


Yes a 1.0mm is perfect for the eye area. You might also try using a single needle for the #11s as Sarah suggests. I've used one on mine several times. http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?singleneedles-pid172.html

You don't have to use alcohol or anti-bacterial soap before rolling. Alcohol might be ideal, but a toner should be fine also.Just make sure your skin is really cleaned well before that.Rinse with water only after rolling.You should let your face air dry after rolling. Don't wash it again with soap, toner. Just follow Sarah's PDF instruction and you will be good to go.
lynnn
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:32 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks so much Pandax12 - I'm glad that I can use something less drying & I'm excited to get started with a 1mm roller!

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born 1964, some raw & live foods - medium complexion - sinking eye area yet manage to still have bags, loose, sagging upper eyelids, 11s not as bad as my N/L & M/L, microneedling .5 & 1mm, led, massage, Vit C, A, CP very occasionally, HA, EES, DMAE, MATRIXYL
lagomorph
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Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:21 pm      Reply with quote
Hey everyone, I have a question. Sorry, I know this has probably been posted before. I did try searching but the thread is massive and I'm lazy and impatient Smile


I'd order from Owndoc but I wanted to take advantage of fast Prime shipping if it's possible to get a decent roller from Amazon. Has anyone found one there?

Also, my main concern is nasolabial (nose to mouth lines. Would a three line roller be more helpful here? Anyone had any luck in this area? I'm almost at the point where I'd think about fillers for this but I'm such a cheapskate I thought I'd try rolling first.
lagomorph
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Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:42 pm      Reply with quote
So I've been reading up on dermarolling and it's probably not going to do much of anything for nasolabial lines. No doubt I'm just going to have to pay for fillers for this.

If anyone has recs on rollers I'd really appreciate it. The reviews on Amazon aren't very helpful.
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Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:53 pm      Reply with quote
I buy from ebay and pay around $15 total. I've bought many rollers on ebay and never had any issues with them. I now buy the mustard colored ones. They are exact copies (from what I've seen) of the ones owndoc sells. Sarah say's the cross linked needle pattern on these rollers is superior to the straight across ones. I'm not totally sold on the science behind that but it does make sense the way she explains it. Whatever you buy, don't get the "knife" shaped needles. Sarah explains in detail why this is not a good thing. Something about slicing your skin which straight needles do not do.
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Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:47 am      Reply with quote
Hi Lagomorph, I purchased 1 of my rollers on ebay 2 years ago & it's still perfect condition and another on OWNDOC.COM - 3 line 1mm - which I just bought - super fast delivery! I bought the latter to target the NL folds & my upper eyelids. I have seen improvement - slight in both areas. Some say it works, others say it works with collagen and elasticity only. Building the facial muscles back up that sag over time helps too apparently so I will be starting back with AGELESS facial exercises. I believe that rolling in addition to good topicals - in my case Retin A, CPs, Vit C, HA and facial exercising it will continue to improve - 2 years ago, they were worse than now for sure.

Also wanted to publicly thank Pandax12 for the recommendations - so helpful and reassuring Smile

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born 1964, some raw & live foods - medium complexion - sinking eye area yet manage to still have bags, loose, sagging upper eyelids, 11s not as bad as my N/L & M/L, microneedling .5 & 1mm, led, massage, Vit C, A, CP very occasionally, HA, EES, DMAE, MATRIXYL
Lowbrowscientist
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Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:25 pm      Reply with quote
Pandax12 wrote:
I buy from ebay and pay around $15 total. I've bought many rollers on ebay and never had any issues with them. I now buy the mustard colored ones. They are exact copies (from what I've seen) of the ones owndoc sells.


Could you post a link to your supplier, Pandax? Owndoc doesn't sell the Dr. Rollers anymore, and in my experience, the crosslink pattern is superior. If you're getting quality rollers and not having problems with them, that supplier's worth checking out. Thank you Smile

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lagomorph
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Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:34 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks guys Smile My nose to mouth lines are sort of borderline in that they've just started to bother me. If I get even a little improvement I think I could hold off with fillers for awhile so that's super encouraging. Might as well try it.

I'll check out ebay and Owndoc. I've read about the crosslink pattern being superior too.
lagomorph
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Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:04 am      Reply with quote
jglobalsales was the shop I bought from on ebay

If someone can explain how I post photos here I'll post one for comparison to OWNDOC rollers.

It looked similar to their rollers. Shipping was fast. 13 dollars
lagomorph
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Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:36 am      Reply with quote
So I decided to get a 3 line roller and some needles from Owndoc. I'll compare the quality to the ebay roller I have now.
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Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:57 am      Reply with quote
http://www.needlingguide.com/online-course

Watch this site ^^ for Setterfield's online needling course! He said its coming out this week!

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