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denisiel
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Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:15 pm      Reply with quote
I would love to hear from some experienced users too.

From my understanding, Dr Des Fernandes is a proponent of deeper and more frequent needling with actives to stimulate collagen growth. Dr. Lance Setterfield advocates less frequent and more shallow needling (0.5mm) to allow collagen time to grow.

I have been using the Derminator every 5 weeks at 0.5 mm with saline solution only, 0.1% tretinoin and vitamin C after the third day, and then LED and microcurrent and ultrasound after the fifth day. Is this too conservative for an almost 50 year old?

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Dry skin but not many wrinkles; 50s and Asian; Topicals: Vit C, tretinoin, hydroquinone & azaleic acid for melasma; Likes: SK-II, Shiseido, Shu Uemura, Skinceuticals, Obagi, P50, Sunday Riley, Hada Labo, facial oils
Needl
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Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:15 pm      Reply with quote
My most obvious success was a few years ago when I first read about needling and used a very thin sewing needle on my first perioral, bunny and forehead lines. All gone within weeks. I mean completely gone! I think single needling such as done by some cosmetic tattoo people can have amazing results, especially on younger skin (pre-menopause) where you're really just trying to 'lift out' the wrinkle or acne scar to join the level of the otherwise good skin.

I have many disadvantages: my skin is ultra-dry, celtic genes in a high-UV climate and now I'm older (near menopause). I feel I'm losing collagen almost by the hour! I'm considering HRT, it's so scary.

Areas that used to have just one or two deeper lines (eg wrists) are now completely covered in fine lines. So instead of just lifting out a few lines with single needling, I really need to renew large swathes of skin. I've be treating crepey/lined areas for the last 6 weeks, weekly (because of the Fernandes article I posted above, and because that fits in with work and down-times). I have worked out what depths work for me using Sarah Vaughter's advice: "For home use, it is much safer to do several rolling sessions with occasional pinpoint bleeding than one "totally bloody" to obtain the same results. Especially if you roll large areas." http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/the-more-blood-the-better-when-dermarolling/ (she's saying that more blood is *not* better).

So, depending on the pain, sponginess/thickness of the skin, closeness of bone underneath, I now use various different depths throughout face, throat, decolletage, hands, wrists and shins, aiming just at pinpoint bleeding, mainly just pinkness. Only for deep lines (parentheses, one perioral line, some wrist lines) I using single needling, go deeper and produce more blood. With single needling, Sarah says be very careful and wait to see what happens after a few weeks. I only do it because I've done it several times before and not scarred.

Sarah answers on bleeding on several times, look up 'blood' and 'bleeding' on Owndoc. Eg here: http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/dr-desmond-fernandes/

I can't afford the Environ products, so just use Ascorbic acid twice a week and vitamin A cream nightly. Sunblock every time I'm outside.

Improvements: because I'm battling against menopause and my other disadvantages, I'll feel lucky if I can just ward off further deterioration. Sarah Vaughter says needling can't fix dry skin, and that indeed is getting worse.

However, an old friend looked at me in surprise the other day and repeatedly (unasked) said I look 32 (I'm 50). Others have said mid-30s.

I can tell that my skin is thickening. When I first did my shins, Nov 2012, 1.5mm roll, they took 10 days to heal. The skin must be thicker and stronger now: I roll 2mm and they heal within 3/4 days. They look a bit better - fewer hints of old-lady veiny/bony shins, but they are still dry. Crepey only when pinched.

Nasolabial: No worse than several years ago, nothing like the depth that runs in my family. Facial exercises also help here.

Parentheses: No worse than several years ago. Due to smiling, I don't expect to remove them completely - I've had them since my 20s.

Crows' feet: Only visible when smiling. Skin not crepey.

Same for other areas: basically I'm holding my skin steady at a mid-30s (but celtic, sun-damaged) level, but certainly don't look 25 again. And I don't look like my friends of the same age who have more melanin and don't have a single wrinkle anywhere.
nycatlover
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Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:18 pm      Reply with quote
Needl - thanks for the helpful details. When you used the single needle, did you just poke into the groove or around it too?
thirtyish
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Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:22 pm      Reply with quote
Needl, thanks for your post! I think it's great that you're 50 and look to be in your 30's. I don't think 40s-50s really can look 25 unless incredibly genetically blessed and/or have a lot of work done. I'm late 40s and skin is not bad and not great...like you though, it feels like aging is trying to happen all of a sudden at breakneck speed! I have some wrinkles but what I hate even worse is the sagging that seemed to surprise me overnight. But I think I hate my neck the most which I think has a sagging issue more than a fat issue...and I have never had a weight issue. I started rolling several months ago and have only done it a couple times at .5, as I said, all the conflicting info kind of paralyzed me. Do you really think I could see improvement in my neck (tightening I guess) from rolling and/or exercise? Have you seen visible improvement in that area? I want improvement in my whole face but I really want to see my neck change. Do you think I should roll weekly at .5? I could tolerate going deeper but I don't know what needle size is best. It blows my mind that you have friends in their 50s with no wrinkles! And that's natural, no botox? Shock
Needl
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Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:19 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you both for the kind words. I'll try and answer your questions:

"When you used the single needle, did you just poke into the groove or around it too?"

With the tiny perioral lines, I did just poke into the groove and that was enough. With my more 'trench like' remaining perioral and parentheses, I am poking around in them, as suggested by Sarah Vaughter for acne scars too.

"Do you really think I could see improvement in my neck (tightening I guess) from rolling and/or exercise? Have you seen visible improvement in that area?"

I also have had no excess weight. But still those horrid vertical neck lines, the beginning of 'Turkey Neck' started to appear over a year ago. I tried the Flexeffect platysma exercise, but that made the muscle shorter and tighter, emphasising the vertical lines more. I've been using the stretching exercise free here at http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/neck-exercise for months now. This is keeping things stable, no worse sagging, perhaps even some improvement. I also do her massage on it she calls 'The Brush'. Read also here: http://www.shapeyourface.com/exercise-four/: he gives useful exercises, but says that if there is too much loose skin surgery is the only way. Personally, I won't hesitate to get that done if I can't control it with exercise and needling. As to the needling helping the under chin/throat area - well the skin is thickening and there is no hint of crepeyness. I can't see more improvement yet.

About frequency and depth: I've been going as deep as it took to get that area pink with pinpoint bleeding, once a week for 6 weeks. It just looked like slight sunburn. I think that Des Fernandes has done enough experimenting on himself and treatment of patients for me to trust his observations. But I'm a layperson: don't go on my word, read what the experts say and make up your mind Smile.

"It blows my mind that you have friends in their 50s with no wrinkles! And that's natural, no botox?"

One is dark brown, the other light brown - ie not caucasian. They really have beautiful, still perfect skin.
Needl
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Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:53 pm      Reply with quote
Just to repeat the article by Dr Des Fernandes that is currently guiding me:

http://www.spabeauty.co.nz/Beauty+Articles/x_post/the-evolution-of-skin-needling-00260.html
Needl
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Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:05 pm      Reply with quote
And the other type of middle-aged women who often doesn't show wrinkles is one who is quite overweight. But of course that brings other issues, including sagging.
thirtyish
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Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:32 pm      Reply with quote
needl, thanks again! I will look into the exercises you mention...have you ever done the one from the thread here (Ageless if you Dare)? I don't know anything about face exercises except for seeing here in this forum and wondering about it. It's a little scary to embark on anything since you said certain exercises made it worse. Kind of bummed to hear that you're only maintaining as I want this new neck look to go away!! But hey, better to maintain than to get worse. If I had the $ and it took surgery I would do it too!!
Needl
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Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:22 pm      Reply with quote
Hi, yes, I use Ageless If You Dare for some of my facial exercises. But her neck one didn't really inspire me, so I'll stick with the CFF one I posted the link to for now.
wkw1203
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Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:02 pm      Reply with quote
Is it good for acne scars?
LondonJamie
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Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:38 pm      Reply with quote
Which serums do you guys and gals recommend for dermarolling? Do you apply pre or post roll?

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sharky2
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Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:12 pm      Reply with quote
I started this thread many years ago and am now 60 soon to be 61. I roll every week or two and have been doing it for years. Despite a series of serious health problems my skin is good. Very few wrinkles just lines around my mouth. This is partly genetics (my mom at 93 had terrific skin). I am starting to use the roller on my head as with my health problems my hair has grown thin. Will let you know if this results in any growth. I also posted about using Frankincense oil which I am ecstatic about in that it has reduced the intensity of dark spots in just 3 weeks.
ArkyUK
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Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:59 pm      Reply with quote
Can someone please recommend a good serum to use after rolling for red acne marks and scars,thanks.
ArkyUK
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Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:57 am      Reply with quote
I found this,do you think it would be effective and safe?

Regenacalm 2% Retinol and Vitamin C Serum

it won't let me post the link here but it's sold on facetheory . com
LondonJamie
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Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:48 am      Reply with quote
ArkyUK wrote:
I found this,do you think it would be effective and safe?

Regenacalm 2% Retinol and Vitamin C Serum

it won't let me post the link here but it's sold on facetheory . com


So strange, I just ordered this! I posted about this today in an elastin thread/dill extract.

Beware of the retinol and vitamin c- L-ascorbic acid for dermarolling though.

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Curent Regime: Cosmetic Skin Solutions CE Ferulic and Phloretin/ Revale Intensive Serum / NIA 24 Intensive Recovery Complex cream / Jojoba and Squalane oils / Avene Emulsion SPF 50 & Prevage City Smart SPF 50 / Skinceuticals Retinol 1.0/ Dermaroller / Facial exercises
ArkyUK
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Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:15 am      Reply with quote
LondonJamie wrote:
ArkyUK wrote:
I found this,do you think it would be effective and safe?

Regenacalm 2% Retinol and Vitamin C Serum

it won't let me post the link here but it's sold on facetheory . com


So strange, I just ordered this! I posted about this today in an elastin thread/dill extract.

Beware of the retinol and vitamin c- L-ascorbic acid for dermarolling though.


I thought you was supposed to use retinol and vitamin c when derma rolling,that's what I was searching for,or am I wrong?
LondonJamie
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Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:01 am      Reply with quote
From what I've read the standard vitamin c and retinol are too harsh to use with the dermaroller and other, gentler forms of vitamin a/c are recommended. Perhaps read through the threads here- they are a wealth of information.

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momof2cute
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Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:28 am      Reply with quote
wkw1203 wrote:
Is it good for acne scars?


For those looking for other options for their problems with acne scars or scars in general,I recommend Dermapen.
Dermapen is a class 1 FDA cleared device that offers multiple benefits.

Dermapen® is a safe and effective alternative to laser treatment, and offers skin rejuvenation with minimal recovery time and a decreased risk of side effects.

Micro-needling, also known as Collagen Induction Therapy, is a minimally-invasive procedure in which tiny, sterile needles pierce the skin, creating thousands of microscopic channels. This activates a healing response in the skin leading to the formation of fibroblasts, release of growth factors, and ultimately deposition of new collagen and elastin. After a series of treatments, visible results include: firmer and tighter skin, improvement in skin texture and a reduction in wrinkles and scarring.

Dermapen® is a class 1 FDA cleared device that offers multiple benefits, and can improve a number of skin concerns including:

Fine lines and wrinkles
Uneven skin texture
Acne scarring
Scars (trauma, surgical, burn, pox)
Superficial skin laxity
Vertical lip lines (smoker’s lines)
Crow’s feet, and other lines that appear to be ‘etched’ into the skin
Thin, crepey skin, including neck and decolletage
Dermapen® may also be combined with Selphyl® (platelet-rich plasma) for enhanced absorption and results.

Dermapen and other treatments available at Physician Skincare Centre
ArkyUK
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Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:31 am      Reply with quote
Can someone recommend a good serum to use when derma rolling?
ArkyUK
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Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:04 am      Reply with quote
Also what size needles can you use on the tip of the nose since the skin is thin there?
otherloulou
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Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:16 am      Reply with quote
Deep wrinkles like crows' feet, the cause is in the muscles, not the skin. They're not traces of repeated creasing, they're a current event. The muscle is pulling the skin into creases. If you stop it doing that, the wrinkles disappear.

You can 'soften their appearance' with skin treatments but to eradicate them you need to address the muscle. This is why Botox works. Wrinkles from sun damage are responsive to dermaroller but proper facial exercise will gradually flatten and reshape the muscle, so that the skin lies flat on top of it. Ummm my programme Ageless tackles them in 2 minutes per week.

Acne scars, sun damage and other skin issues are greatly helped by dermaroller. Wrinkles and tightening the facial skin not so much because the skin is bonded to the muscle and isn't capable of working loose. On the rest of the body, including the neck the skin is a separate layer and can be made tighter to the underlying structure. This is where I'd use dermaroller 😎
Loulou

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bugaboo
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Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:52 pm      Reply with quote
ArkyUK wrote:
Can someone please recommend a good serum to use after rolling for red acne marks and scars,thanks.


I haven't used my dermapen for about a month but I just purchased Lifeline ProPlus Advanced Aqueous Treatment and used it after my micro-derm abrasion treatments. No stinging or discomfort whatsoever. This product is recommended for post-procedures.

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4myhealth
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Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:48 pm      Reply with quote
I purchased a DermaPen knock-off (My-M) several years ago after reading about it here. I just used it for the first time in years tonight.

After use, I jumped online to try to find some products, but came across an article from OwnDoc that stated that DermaPens cause micro-tearing and now I'm freaked out.

Questions:

Is it safe to use the My-M or will it ruin my skin like the article states?

If it is safe, what kind of product(s) can I use to make the device glide more smoothly over my skin?

How often can I use it (if I can)?

And at what needle depth?

What products should be applied immediately after treatment and during the time between treatments?

I also purchased a Baby Quasar (Red Light) 7 or so years ago and have never used it either. Is this something that I can/should incorporate in my routine as well? And if so, how/when?

I am 49, red-head, fair and freckly skin, and desperate to get started on a routine, albeit late, to minimize the wrinkles that have already set in.

Thanks for your help! Smile
Tarrano
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Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:50 am      Reply with quote
Dermaroller is an aesthetic tool that helps remove the layer of dead cells and promote the cosmetic penetration into the deeper layers of skin. It is also used in the fight against cellulite and orange peel. The procedure dermarolling Italy is very popular among women because guarantees a good result. The first result is noticeable already after the second treatment. The dermaroller price depends on the material of the needles and its length.

So Dermapen is more of a professional dermatological instrument while dermaroller is a domestic version with perforation 0.2mm is made for self-medication. However dermaroller gives a minimum stimulus but performs well with micropeeling (preferably combined in the sequence: 5 glucose evenings, 1 Airol cream, 1 Dermaroller).

Better buy a dermaroller with smaller needles for the first time. It`s way better and you wont damage your skin if you are not professional. Long needles can do more harm if used without proper knowledge and special healthcare products

You can check some products here: ems-beauty.it/apparecchiature-per-l-estetica/derma-roller-it
mansi123
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Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:30 am      Reply with quote
Hello Ladies,

I recently started dermarolling. I chose 1mm needle size.

I give one roll like 6 months ago ( and then life caught up), did another roll yesterday.

I never bled with dermarolling.

Also when I dermarolled for the first time, I had redness for like 12 hours or so..
But yesterday, I had redness only for like 2 hours or so..
what does that mean?

should I stick to rolling once a month or increase the frequency to twice a month..

I am worried that I am not responding the way everyone is ( bleeding and redness for a day or two) to dermarolling.. I am 43 years old.

Any tips/ suggestions?

Thanks,
Mansi
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