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Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:32 am  |
| I have been shaving my face for some time. It helps get rid of all the dead skin. My face is really smooth. Everything goes on nicely. Until I started rolling my face was smooth smooth. Now it is going through some evolutionary thing. I hope it is getting better (thick and more collagen) I rolled 3 times last week. I plan on doing it this evening. My question is. Is it okay to use CP and then emu oil after rolling. |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:04 pm |
| catski wrote: |
| ScotsLass wrote: |
| catski wrote: |
The sun damage on my chest seems darker after the last roll, and more defined in shape. 
The skin looks younger and smoother, but the sun damage worse...
Any thoughts on this from anyone? |
Hey Catski! I have a few questions for you regarding your dilemma.  How long have you been rolling your chest, and how often each week? Have you experienced any kind of 'oozing' after you've rolled this area? Are you using any kind of topicals or actives right after you've rolled (like CP's, etc?). From everything I've read, the sun damage should reduce significantly after a 6 once-a-week rolling program with the 1.5 mm roller. However, you won't see the FULL results for another 8-12 weeks once you stop rolling this area with the 1.5 mm. It's possible you may be going through some form of the 'uglies' as the damage is being broken down, or there may be something going on with whatever topicals you are using afterwards.
I intend to use a few of the Nia24 products after I start to roll my chest area in a few weeks time. My hope is that applying the Nia24 products every other night right after I've used a smaller roller (for product penetration alone), and then again right after an intensive rolling session with the 1.5 mm (on Fridays only) will eradicate the hyperpigmentation that much faster and prevent any new damage from returning. Ahh, my dermarolling experiments and projects are never ending these days! LOL!  |
Hey ScotsLass! 
This is my 2nd roll of this area. I'm planning on doing 6. On a weekly basis. I saw, right away, a nice improvement of skintone. I'm using ph.advantage vitamin tretament. A, C& E.
I'm waiting for my NIA24 decolletage cream to come, via EDS. I do actually have a tube of straight NIA24, but since I find it quite strong anyhow, I thought I wouldnt use it right after rolling. But actually maybe I will give it a go.. the EDS order is being slow to arrive ( I guess that means customs has grabbed it  )
I think yes, it is definitely the uglies. Which I hadnt expected.
BTW ScotsLass, I had one piece of dark and stubborn sun damage right in the centre of my chest, which I was pluggging away at with cosmelan2. Eventually, my GP burned it off for me! Zap. It's gone. The relief is fantastic. "Yes, it IS an eyesore" my doctor said. And sorted it. Now I am left with paler splashy little bits. |
Hi Cat! 
I've got to riffle through some more of my dermaroller documentation to be certain, but I did read that "aggressive" rolling of the chest area can produce a strange side effect that is akin to a form of hyperpigmentation. Obviously this is the very problem that you and I want to reduce, so I was a bit alarmed to read that the situation can potentially become worse under certain circumstances with the derma roller. This is why I asked if you had any 'oozing' after a session and if you were using CP's. That combination can be dangerous and potentially trigger scar collagen, so if your chest is ever 'bloody' after a roll, I'd be really careful about applying anything right away. Thankfully, you are not using CP's on this area or experiencing any oozing, so the issue may in fact be a ugly phase.
If I had a suggestion right now, it would be to space your treatments out beyond a week so that you can monitor this 'ugly' phase a little closer. Instead of rolling every 7 days, I'd try every 10 to 14 days. The vitamin treatment you are using after you roll sounds fine, as well, but my fingers are crossed that the Nia24 cream will be more effective (once you receive it! ).
I am also experimenting with the Nia24 products (have a bunch of samples), and have yet to decide if I want to use the new Decolletage product alone, or if my skin can tolerate a combination of some of the stronger creams. I can't wait to get going to see which ones will be best.
Oooh, you lucky girl!!! I cannot believe that your GP was able to zap off some problematic sun damage so easily. What method did he use and did it hurt at all? I have not given up on the idea of using the Cosmelan Treatment System for my hyperpigmentation, but for the cost and accessibility of samples, I've decided to give the Nia24 program a whirl first. Of course the idea of instantly zapping the problem away appeals much, much more!!! |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:25 pm |
| sherryf13500 wrote: |
| My question is. Is it okay to use CP and then emu oil after rolling. |
I'm pretty sure Skin Biology recommend to wait about an hour after rolling before applying the CP serum - this is to allow the little holes to close up a bit. Then apply the emu oil. |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:10 pm |
Scotslass and Catski, can you pls let me know how you get on with the NIA24...as I am VERY interested in this.
regards
rebecca |
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47 years old. Battling aging and pigmentation. Using Tria and Pico and Dermapen. |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:42 am |
ScotLass thankyou for that info. So yes, I will go slow. I didnt have oozing, use cp's or get bloody. Thankfully! I'll leave it a couple of weeks till I roll there again, and only then if I feel I need to. The skin there is already much nicer, after just two rolls. It was getting a wee bit crepey. 
The GP used a freeze device which actually is more commonly used for wart removal. She held it on for 60 seconds, and it was a burny feeling, but extremely bearable. I had two rounds of it and that's it. Fantastic, eh?
I have, btw, been trying the caudalie beauty elixir which I was told is great for sun damage. pfffft, is all I can say on that one..
Snowqueen I will definitely check in here with results, wether they be good or non - existent!
A question which occurs to me, is just how much rolling can we do? Is there a point at which the collagen production factory says "I'm tired now!" and closes down?! |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:46 am |
a good question Catski!! I recently did a big back off coz I feared I might be overdoing it. I think I roll "lightly" compared to most, but was doing it several times a week. I've now backed off to once a week.
Other than that...no idea!!
rebecca |
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47 years old. Battling aging and pigmentation. Using Tria and Pico and Dermapen. |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:21 am |
Is there a medical or a skin care person that speaks to dermarolling. Are any of the regular posters licenced or work in the skin care profession that speaks to this wonderful invention "THE DERMAROLLER"? How much is too much. What should we expect down the road from this home procedure? Who has been doing this the longest and what experience have they had. You can read until the cows come home all the posts on this product. I am old and can't remember it all. I am lucky I can remember my name. Thanks for all of your help. I am very pleased with this product. I will however wait to put on my CP. Is there a product you should use right after rolling or before? I read that you should put an active on while rolling and you shouldn't. What is right?
Thanks again. |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:18 am |
| I rolled the third time yesterday...My nose was fine. YAAAAY!!! |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:40 am |
| Hi, Everyone, Just got back from the derm. He's young...37! He has never heard of needling or a dermaroller. |
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65 Caucasion, history of acne, sagging, some wrinkling, rough texture. Using Dermawand, AALS, Microderm Machine,Copper Peptides |
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Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:05 am |
| WHERE can I buy one of these? I can't find one anywhere. Leaf and Rusher have been out for ages. Can anyone help? |
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Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:38 am |
| I bought mine on ebay |
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Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:07 am |
| I bought mine on ebay, too. Dr. Roller. |
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65 Caucasion, history of acne, sagging, some wrinkling, rough texture. Using Dermawand, AALS, Microderm Machine,Copper Peptides |
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Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:22 am |
| catski wrote: |
ScotLass thankyou for that info. So yes, I will go slow. I didnt have oozing, use cp's or get bloody. Thankfully! I'll leave it a couple of weeks till I roll there again, and only then if I feel I need to. The skin there is already much nicer, after just two rolls. It was getting a wee bit crepey.
The GP used a freeze device which actually is more commonly used for wart removal. She held it on for 60 seconds, and it was a burny feeling, but extremely bearable. I had two rounds of it and that's it. Fantastic, eh?
I have, btw, been trying the caudalie beauty elixir which I was told is great for sun damage. pfffft, is all I can say on that one.. |
Hey Catski - Glad to have helped in any way. If your chest skin is starting to look better now, then you might want to persevere with all 6 roller sessions even if they have to be spaced out a bit. Once you stop rolling this area after the 6 treatments, you should see significant results begin to emerge from 90 days and onwards.
I can't wait to hear how you make out with the NIA24 Decolletage cream, as I am confident that any results you gain from this product will arrive that much faster thanks to your derma roller treatments.
Thanks for explaining how your GP zapped away your sun damage. It sounds so easy and effortless that I am going to look into it myself and see if a Derm can do the same thing for me. 
I'm also glad to scratch off another product that isn't worth trying! Thanks for mentioning how ineffective the Caudalie Beauty Elixir is for hyperpigmention!  |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:44 am |
| catski wrote: |
| A question which occurs to me, is just how much rolling can we do? Is there a point at which the collagen production factory says "I'm tired now!" and closes down?! |
The collagen production factory won't close down, but it can be "mowed" down by your roller if you don't give your skin a break in order to rejuvenate properly. The best rule of thumb is to use the 1.5 mm roller once a week for 6 weeks, then give your skin a rest for at least 90 days.
How the 1.5 mm roller works is by using it's longer needles to break down old damaged collagen strands. This abrasion, or minor injury in the deeper dermis, then induces the production of new collagen and elastin. If you repeatedly roll your skin with the 1.5 mm size more than once a week, you are effectively breaking down the new collagen before it has time to properly re-stimulate. New collagen is "laid down" in the papillary and upper reticular dermis, so if you roll too often in a 7 day cycle you will interrupt this important process. This is why you'll find articles or documents about dermarolling that suggest you use the longer rollers once a week for 6 weeks then STOP rolling entirely for a period of 12 weeks. Once the damaged collagen strands have been broken down during the six weekly sessions with the 1.5 mm roller, it then takes at least 90 days of no rolling for your skin to fully regenerate with an abundance of fresh new collagen (that is observed as younger looking skin). So you will not know what the most significant results will be until that time. This is not to say you won't see promising results from the moment you start rolling. New collagen is triggered to produce as soon as the damaged collagen strands are broken down. So you will see some progress as the weeks pass, but the more dramatic results are 3+ months away.
In the meantime, while you are waiting to see the FULL results of your six weekly treatments with the 1.5 mm roller, you can still use the smaller rollers (0.5 mm, 0.75 mm and 1.0 mm) two to three times a week as a means of helping your topicals & actives penetrate deeper. I've actually married the two protocols together right now and use a smaller roller for product penetration to prep my skin for serums and topicals on Monday's and Wednesday's before bed, and the 1.5 mm roller on Friday's for my weekly intensive session. Once my six week cycle with the larger roller is finished, I will continue to use the smaller roller at least twice a week at night before I apply my evening products. The reason I prep with the roller at night versus the day is because collagen production occurs more while you're sleeping.
Once the 90 day period has passed, you can opt to do another set of 6 weekly sessions with the 1.5 mm roller if you are not completely satisfied with your results. Once you've finished this second round, you should not even consider rolling again for at least 6 to 9 months. It can sometimes take 9 months for the skin to fully regenerate with new collagen and elastin, so patience is needed as you wouldn't want to inadvertently mow down a healthy collagen production phase. Once you've achieved the results you're after, you'll need to repeat the 6 weekly sessions with the 1.5 mm roller once or twice a year from that point forward. Maintenance will always be required, but not excessively so.
Hope this helps to answer some questions... |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:26 am |
| Hello, ScotsLass, Thank you so very much for this information. I'm one who tends to overdo so, I'm especially appreciative of your comments and advice. |
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65 Caucasion, history of acne, sagging, some wrinkling, rough texture. Using Dermawand, AALS, Microderm Machine,Copper Peptides |
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Nan5361
New Member
 
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
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Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:36 pm |
I've been following the thread and find I don't need to ask questions because you give such good information!
I have rolled 3 times now with my 1.5 roller. I will say that my skin is looking more fresh and the rolling with actives seems to be helping with hyperpigmentation. I also have issues with larger pores in some areas (high in the cheek bone area) and I am hoping to see some improvement in this respect, too. Have any of you noticed a difference with pores after following a 6 week (once per week) rolling schedule?
The ice tip is really helping too - especially in my upper lip area. I am hopeful that I will see changes with my pores. I plan to follow, exactly, the protocol ScotsLass describes, above. Thanks so much! |
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Nan5361 |
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Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:58 pm |
I ordered my derma roller over a week ago and
I still haven't received it!!!
What do they say? Patience is a virtue...I don't think that is my gift....
Still longing for that exquisite tortue as Sno queen so eloquently put it!
I did get my Lightstim today!!! Hurray!!!
I have already tried it...very relaxing.
Nan5361...thanks for the update...It just makes me more anxious and jealous!!!
Kitty |
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:06 am |
| Mars wrote: |
| Hello, ScotsLass, Thank you so very much for this information. I'm one who tends to overdo so, I'm especially appreciative of your comments and advice. |
Hello Mars! You're very welcome. It is SO easy to fall victim to the notion that if one derma roller session is good per week, what harm can two or three more do! Secretly we are all tempted to do some extra rolling in the hopes that an extra session with the 1.5 mm model will yield quicker/better results, but sadly the process doesn't work that way. The skin can only regenerate so fast and the formation of new collagen and elastin fiberblasts follow a particular development phase that takes time.
Now if there is one area that I am inclined to want to overdo (and haven't found ANY articles or documents that indicate you shouldn't ), it would be the number of rolls to perform on each section of the face during a weekly session. The recommended number is 10 rolls per section. My guess is this number is enough to break down damaged collagen, etc., yet make sure your face heals quickly and is presentable the next day. Which is dandy, BUT what if further results can be achieved by rolling each section more than 10 times!? My feeling is that the extra rolling will create additional wounding and inflammation in the dermis, and this in turn sends out signals in the body to induce new collagen and so on, but do it on a much GRANDER scale. Essentially, the bigger the wound in the dermis, the more the *collagen factory* is kicked into high gear!
Unfortunately, the price for extra rolling will likely include bruising, swelling, a possible period of peeling, and of course more down time to heal. Yet....even with the potential for all of these unpleasant after effects, I'm still very tempted to try to work up to 20 rolls per section to see what happens (oh boy, I think my new kitty and his never-ending curiosity is rubbing off on me in a BIG way these days!  ).
Good grief Mars, I am not being a very good example of abstaining from the urge to overdo, am I!  Blast these derma rollers, they're simply too addictive!!! |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:54 am |
| Nan5361 wrote: |
I've been following the thread and find I don't need to ask questions because you give such good information!
I have rolled 3 times now with my 1.5 roller. I will say that my skin is looking more fresh and the rolling with actives seems to be helping with hyperpigmentation. I also have issues with larger pores in some areas (high in the cheek bone area) and I am hoping to see some improvement in this respect, too. Have any of you noticed a difference with pores after following a 6 week (once per week) rolling schedule?
The ice tip is really helping too - especially in my upper lip area. I am hopeful that I will see changes with my pores. I plan to follow, exactly, the protocol ScotsLass describes, above. Thanks so much! |
Can't wait to hear about your impressions and results once you finish your first 6 week rolling cycle, Nan! Did you take a 'before' picture so that you can track your progress as the weeks and months pass? I've finally established a regular routine of taking 'before' pic's prior to starting any new routine as they truly allow you to track each improvement (or lack thereof) more effectively than going by memory. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:04 am |
| snowqueen67 wrote: |
Scotslass and Catski, can you pls let me know how you get on with the NIA24...as I am VERY interested in this.
regards
rebecca |
Absolutely, rebecca! |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:47 am |
I have a question about derma rolling with the smaller.25 roller in the morning. I do a weekly roll with a 1.5 roller and five days a week I slightly roll with the .25 for better product penetration. My question is when I roll in the morning I do notice a nice plumped up tighter look. What are thoughts on this because I did see where the collagen production is at night. What made me decide to roll in the morning was the following information form the Nova website.
"Testimonial from Jenny, owner of the Nova Clinic: Hello everyone and welcome to our web site. Our staff have been using the skin or derma rollers in the clinic and selling them to clients for some time, we have seen astounding results. For me personally I roll each week day morning, that is 5 days out of 7, the skin needs to rest and heal up for a few days per week.. Then I would roll once a month I use the anesthetic gel and do a firmer roll then.. Personally I have found that my skin feels lighter, as if I have shed a layer, that sort of feeling. My face looks clear, bright and healthy. Lines and wrinkles, some sun damage and an age spot have gone completely. I especially love the way my skin feels after rolling, and this feeling lasts all day. I have been in this business for a long time and have to say this is the most positive, non-intrusive, non-invasive at-home treatment I have ever come across. And the results speak for themselves. I look forward to rolling each morning, it is painless, as I know how great the results are with the growth of new collagen."
Toby |
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:18 am |
Hi Toby - What products are you using after you slightly roll with the 0.25 mm roller in the mornings? It's very possible that the plumping you are seeing is a result of the water that is contained in the products you are applying. Once you briefly roll your skin, you are effectively creating micro-channels in the upper layers that act as a delivery system for any products you introduce immediately afterwards. The micro-channels will help your skin retain additional moisture (water) from most products significantly more than if you were to apply a product without rolling first. The result is often a plumping effect as the product(s) you apply after a quick roll have access to deeper layers that they couldn't reach before. Additional plumping is especially noticeable if you are using HA or products that contain HA.
My guess (without knowing what you are using) is that water is plumping and tightening your skin from the products you are applying after your quick roll in the AM (oh, that almost sounded a bit risque! ), and that this effect has nothing to do with sudden collagen production. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:25 am |
| Regarding frequency of use of the 1.5mm roller - Dr. Fernandes and the other medical practitioners on various web sites do recommend a six week course of rolling and then stop. However, I just thought that I'd point out that they are using a very, very aggressive technique which leaves the skin bloody and injured. I don't think that any of us are doing this to ourselves at home - at least I hope not! Therefore, I think it's ok if we roll more frequently because we are not damaging the skin to the extent that a professional would. |
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:00 am |
I understand the gist of what you're saying Keliu, but I haven't found one single piece of documentation or any articles or any studies that says that there are any benefits to using the 1.5 mm roller more than once a week, regardless of the pressure you employ when you roll. On the other hand, I have found lots of information that clearly says to use the 1.5 mm roller once a week only, and for a period of 6 weeks before a imposed rest phase is required.
Until very recently, you could not buy the 1.5 mm roller easily as it was classified for professional (medical) use only. In terms of how far the 1.5 mm rollers penetrate; the needles do not penetrate deeper than approximately 1.3 mm, so the doctors who are using this length for clinical treatments must be rolling more than 10 times per section to induce an intensive roll, but that's about the only difference I can detect as they cannot force the needles to penetrate the dermis any further than you can on your own. Due to the sharpness of the roller you are using and the slimness of the diameter of the needles, you are able to achieve maximum penetration much more easily than you realize, and without the need to press with any major effort.
The medical rolling treatments in any clinic that offers this service (with the 1.5 mm and up) do not run once a week for 6 weeks either. Instead they tend to be 1 to 3 weekly sessions (on average). After which, an enforced resting period is required for at least 90 days in order for new collagen to be laid down and the skin rejuvenation process to begin.
Please let me know if you've found some information that indicates that the 1.5 mm roller can be used more often, and what the benefits of doing so would be. I'm all for doing more rolling if it means I'll gain additional results!
Oh, one last thing, the 1.5 mm roller is creating a wounding effect that is as effective as the clinical treatments with a professional, the only difference is how much extra rolling you do in a session as this is the cause of significant bruising and down time, etc. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:30 am |
This is from the Nova Clinic website:
"It can be used by yourself anytime at your own convenience. (No restrictive treatment session times."
They sell a number of different rollers and the blurb seems to apply to all of them, not to any particular length.
I'm definitely not arguing with your point of view - I agree with everything you're saying, I just think I'm addicted to rolling and don't want to give it up! Actually, the Nova Clinic is not very far from where I live so I think I'll pay them a visit and see what they say. |
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