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sherryf13500
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:50 am      Reply with quote
Can anyone tell me what is best product to put on before rolling? After rolling? I really apprciate all the information given. I am so confused. I want to do the right thing. I dont' want to continue to do the wrong.

thanks so much for your help. Scotlas you are a wealth of knowledge. I just want to put whatever will be the most effective for my face before and after a roll.
Cadia
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:05 am      Reply with quote
ScotsLass wrote:
mountaingirl wrote:
Does anyone get a slight "popping" when rolling?...like it is breaking through a sealed surface. I can't articulate this, but I do feel like the needles don't just slip into the skin, rather they "break" through.

Oh, BTW, the popping sounds you are hearing are from scar tissue strands breaking down beneath the surface of your skin. Apparently the popping sound is a good thing and is quite common and nothing to be alarmed by. Smile


It's the rolling through connective tissue that makes the noise, it has nothing to do with scars.
ScotsLass
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:23 am      Reply with quote
Cadia wrote:
ScotsLass wrote:
mountaingirl wrote:
Does anyone get a slight "popping" when rolling?...like it is breaking through a sealed surface. I can't articulate this, but I do feel like the needles don't just slip into the skin, rather they "break" through.

Oh, BTW, the popping sounds you are hearing are from scar tissue strands breaking down beneath the surface of your skin. Apparently the popping sound is a good thing and is quite common and nothing to be alarmed by. Smile


It's the rolling through connective tissue that makes the noise, it has nothing to do with scars.

I didn't say it had anything to do with "scars".Confused

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ScotsLass
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:45 am      Reply with quote
sherryf13500 wrote:
Can anyone tell me what is best product to put on before rolling? After rolling? I really apprciate all the information given. I am so confused. I want to do the right thing. I dont' want to continue to do the wrong.

thanks so much for your help. Scotlas you are a wealth of knowledge. I just want to put whatever will be the most effective for my face before and after a roll.

Sherry - Please don't worry, there are a number of us here willing to help, so hang tight while everyone has a chance to chime in with their thoughts about your situation.

To get the ball rolling, why don't you share what it is you are trying to fix or accomplish with the roller, and what actives or topicals you want to use with it, or thought you should try to use during or after a session (include details like the strength of CP's you have been using, etc). Include your skintype and whatever actives you are currently using in your daily routine (without the roller) or tried to use in the past (with or without success). This provides a basis to get everyone thinking about your situation as the use of the actual derma roller is the easy part! It's the active(s) or topicals that you opt to use before or after a rolling session that can be tricky to determine.Smile

One way or another, you WILL reach a stage in the near future (perhaps by this weekend Wink ) where you are really happy with your rolling routine. Keep in mind that these things can take time and some trial and error, so try not to fret about getting anything 'wrong' as you experiment with different techniques and topicals. Most people go through some sort of testing phase (of rolling and using topicals immediately afterwards) before they know what makes the most sense for their skin.

Can you also include where you purchased your 1.5 mm roller?

Thanks! Image

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mb935
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:54 am      Reply with quote
hi

Someone here mentioned its better to roll in the morning - my question is... what about applying foundation/makeup. Unfortunately I still have to wear it - is waiting 20 minutes long enough so that Im not clogging my pores with makeup?

I have the .5 roller.

thanks
lillilulu
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:06 am      Reply with quote
Thanks for your response ScotsLass. I checked with my friend and she has the thick form of collagen (apparently there is also a thinner one). I lent her my Quasar SP a while back, and the collagen she had had put in, 3 weeks before, disappeared a week later, and it usually lasts around 6 months so I won't be very popular if it happens with the Dermaroller too! By the way, now I've done my 6 treatments, I'm finding it really hard to resist doing another! I normally roll on Thursday evening and it was so hard to resist. I'm not normally into pain, (I roll without anaesthetic) but I think I miss the high I got from knowing how much better my skin looks after, if you know what I mean.
sherryf13500
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:09 am      Reply with quote
My goal is to get rid of or lessen the lines around my lips and sag around my jaw.

I bought my roller on ebay from dermaroller. It is a dr. roller? 1.5

I have had it a total of 2 weeks. I used it the first week 3 times. Three treatments. The second week after reading the steam of information here, I only rolled once.

So that is where I am
My routine is:
AM
Cleanse face
Vit C - 30 min before all the rest.
Matrixyl 3000
HA
Emu oil
sunscreen

PM
Cleanse face
Pat Dry
CP - Just plain CP (first strength recommended for new users)
after 30 min.
Emu oil and HA, Matrixyl 3000

Sleep!
sherryf13500
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:12 am      Reply with quote
lillilulu,
You have been doing this for 6 weeks? Do you see improvement. If so what? I'd love to hear... I can't wait to see what it does for me.
ScotsLass
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:14 am      Reply with quote
mb935 wrote:
hi

Someone here mentioned its better to roll in the morning - my question is... what about applying foundation/makeup. Unfortunately I still have to wear it - is waiting 20 minutes long enough so that Im not clogging my pores with makeup?

I have the .5 roller.

thanks

Hi - It was the Nova Clinic that recommended rolling in the mornings to aid in product penetration, but this does not imply that this is a better time of day to roll. It was simply a suggestion to let you know you can roll in the mornings if you wish.

I do not use my smaller roller to prep (or push) my topicals in the mornings and instead do it exclusively at night. This way I don't have to worry about wait times to apply my make-up, as this would be a deterrent for me. Collagen production is also reported to be higher at night while you're sleeping, compared to the day time. So this is another bonus of product prepping with my smaller roller before bed.

Was the 'recommendation' that you read the only reason you wanted to roll in the mornings, or was there another reason?

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Cadia
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:18 am      Reply with quote
ScotsLass wrote:
Cadia wrote:
ScotsLass wrote:
mountaingirl wrote:
Does anyone get a slight "popping" when rolling?...like it is breaking through a sealed surface. I can't articulate this, but I do feel like the needles don't just slip into the skin, rather they "break" through.

Oh, BTW, the popping sounds you are hearing are from scar tissue strands breaking down beneath the surface of your skin. Apparently the popping sound is a good thing and is quite common and nothing to be alarmed by. Smile


It's the rolling through connective tissue that makes the noise, it has nothing to do with scars.

I didn't say it had anything to do with "scars".Confused


Well, scar tissue has, so perhaps you did?

Besides, the point is that the popping has nothing to do with scar tissue. It is the punching through the connective tissue that makes the sound.
sherryf13500
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:21 am      Reply with quote
That just gives me the willies. I don't think I hear it. I will have to listen up...
This is such a great forum here. don't you think.


Thanks for all your informtion
ScotsLass
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:38 am      Reply with quote
lillilulu wrote:
Thanks for your response ScotsLass. I checked with my friend and she has the thick form of collagen (apparently there is also a thinner one). I lent her my Quasar SP a while back, and the collagen she had had put in, 3 weeks before, disappeared a week later, and it usually lasts around 6 months so I won't be very popular if it happens with the Dermaroller too! By the way, now I've done my 6 treatments, I'm finding it really hard to resist doing another! I normally roll on Thursday evening and it was so hard to resist. I'm not normally into pain, (I roll without anaesthetic) but I think I miss the high I got from knowing how much better my skin looks after, if you know what I mean.

LOL! I know exactly what you mean, lillilulu! And weaning yourself off of the 1.5 mm will not be easy! Ha, ha! I'm certain a 12-step RollerGirl program will need to be implemented to keep everyone on the straight and narrow!

You know you can always start up a new 6 week treatment cycle with the 1.5 mm and use it on another part of your body. Collagen rejuvenation does not discriminate, so you can roll your hands or chest or elsewhere on your body that you'd like to see some sort of improvement.

I'll look into the collagen fillers, specifically the thick form, and see what I can dig up for you. It's such a shame that your friend dissolved her fillers with the Quasar SP - and you're right, you won't be popular at all if you are implicated in another filler fiasco! Laughing

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lillilulu
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:16 am      Reply with quote
ScotsLass, good thinking! I have rolled my hands twice, but they were really sore and swollen that I've put off doing them again, but no pain, no gain, so I'll do them tonight! My hands did look amazing after rolling though, but that was the swelling, so I think regular treatments are definitely needed. Sherry, the 6 rolls (1.5) have really benefited my skin. It feels firmer, my undereye area has filled out and my pores are smaller. These changes are subtle, but definitely there, and I am confident that the improvements will continue now that ScotsLass has explained the process. I will really miss the glow I got from rolling though, and can't wait for the 90 days to pass, so I can get rolling again!
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:42 am      Reply with quote
sherryf13500 wrote:
My goal is to get rid of or lessen the lines around my lips and sag around my jaw.

I bought my roller on ebay from dermaroller. It is a dr. roller? 1.5

I have had it a total of 2 weeks. I used it the first week 3 times. Three treatments. The second week after reading the steam of information here, I only rolled once.

So that is where I am
My routine is:
AM
Cleanse face
Vit C - 30 min before all the rest.
Matrixyl 3000
HA
Emu oil
sunscreen

PM
Cleanse face
Pat Dry
CP - Just plain CP (first strength recommended for new users)
after 30 min.
Emu oil and HA, Matrixyl 3000

Sleep!

Okay Sherry, this is just an idea, but I would apply your Matrixyl 3000 before you roll with your 1.5 mm during your weekly sessions. Matrixyl 3000 is supposed to dramatically boost the synthesis of Collagen I, III, and IV, which is IDEAL for what you are trying to achieve with the roller! Okay, not only that, but Matrixyl 3000 improves moisture retention and tightens and firms your skin. Here is an inspiring excerpt that really has me wondering how much better your results will be with this peptide complex once it is delivered deeper into your skin - WOW! Can't wait to find out! Wink

Quote:
Matrixyl 3000 (Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-7)is formerly known as Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-3. This peptide has an anti-wrinkling and lifting effect. It's two components, Pal-GHK and Pal-GQPR, act in synergy to restore and maintain skin's youthful appearance. With regular use of Matrixyl 3000, it is possible to obtain up to 45% less wrinkling in just two months.

By pushing the Matrixyl 3000 into your skin with the roller you are delivering the serum significantly deeper than if you were to apply the serum on it's own after a treatment. Once you've finished your session, I would wait until several hours have has passed or the next day and then apply a good application of Emu Oil (use a good moisturizing cream to tie you over to the next day if necessary, but not HA on it's own as this can be too drying after a moderate roll). The reason I am NOT suggesting you apply Emu Oil while the holes are still open (post-roll) is because emu oil is a known anti-inflammatory, and you do not want to use any kind of anti-inflammatory products while you are performing this 6 week treatment plan (this is more important while the holes are open).

There are two reasons for this; the first is that inflammation during the wound-healing phase is important as it helps the collagen production cycle yield better results; the second reason is that Emu Oil contains EFA's and these can alter how your blood clots. This in turn can cause bruising to develop when it could have been avoided all together. EFA's also include Omega Supplements, so it is suggested that you stop taking these supplements as well during this period. Aspirin is another anti-coagulant, so cease taking it too while you're working through your 6 treatments. Once the 6 week program is over, you can resume regular use of Emu Oil, Omega Supplements and Aspirin.

I would also highly recommend you think about buying another smaller roller to continue with once you retire the 1.5 mm size after your first 6 week cycle ends. Both rollers will last a good while so the investment is well worth it, IMO. A smaller roller will allow you to keep focusing on the upper layers of your skin with your topicals, which can only produce additional results. And all I can say to that is ROCK 'N ROLL ON, BABY!!! Image

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ScotsLass
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:00 pm      Reply with quote
lillilulu wrote:
ScotsLass, good thinking! I have rolled my hands twice, but they were really sore and swollen that I've put off doing them again, but no pain, no gain, so I'll do them tonight! My hands did look amazing after rolling though, but that was the swelling, so I think regular treatments are definitely needed. Sherry, the 6 rolls (1.5) have really benefited my skin. It feels firmer, my undereye area has filled out and my pores are smaller. These changes are subtle, but definitely there, and I am confident that the improvements will continue now that ScotsLass has explained the process. I will really miss the glow I got from rolling though, and can't wait for the 90 days to pass, so I can get rolling again!

Well...not to be an enabler or anything, hee hee, but you can always buy a second smaller roller and experiment with other topicals while you're waiting to use the 1.5 mm again. Image In the meanwhile, you've got your lovely hands to work on with the larger roller, which is a VERY worthwhile endeavour if you ask me!!!

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ScotsLass
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:06 pm      Reply with quote
Yubs wrote:
I agree with Lililulu, thanks to ScotsLass for the great info. That's what tipped me into taking the plunge with the dermaroller, and I just bought two...the 1.5 and a .5. Skin and vanity are happy, wallet not so much. ha

Glad to have helped, Yubs! And way to go on scoring not one, but two rollers - excellent decision!!! Image I can't wait to hear how you make out with your new roller-babies and what sort of routine you establish with each in terms of topicals and whether or not to roll them in or apply them afterwards. The entire process is rather exciting in its own strange way, and becomes bizarrely addictive over time. So be prepared! Wink

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Mars
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:09 pm      Reply with quote
Hi, Guys, I'm refraining! Smile

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sherryf13500
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:59 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks so much Scotslass. I will do just that. One more question. What smaller size should I buy?
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:04 pm      Reply with quote
Scotslass-that's a great idea to apply the matrixyl before rolling to get it in deep. Have you tried it yet? Would you still rinse off any dots of blood afterwards? I love my new Dr roller, by the way. It hurts less, the angle of the handle is nice- just makes me want to roll and roll and roll.........
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:01 pm      Reply with quote
Hi - It was the Nova Clinic that recommended rolling in the mornings to aid in product penetration, but this does not imply that this is a better time of day to roll. It was simply a suggestion to let you know you can roll in the mornings if you wish.

I do not use my smaller roller to prep (or push) my topicals in the mornings and instead do it exclusively at night. This way I don't have to worry about wait times to apply my make-up, as this would be a deterrent for me. Collagen production is also reported to be higher at night while you're sleeping, compared to the day time. So this is another bonus of product prepping with my smaller roller before bed.

Was the 'recommendation' that you read the only reason you wanted to roll in the mornings, or was there another reason?[/quote]



Yeah - I thought the post meant that it was more beneficial to roll in the morning because of having more noticable effects - rather than doing so at night.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE REPLY!!!
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Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:32 pm      Reply with quote
Welp, I toughed it out and did the 1.5mm without the topical anesthetic. Confused Seriously, it wasn't bad...I think I did it right since I read you're not supposed to really exert any pressure, just roll it along normally, and that's what I did. It stung a bit and by the time I got to the end of the diagonal strokes I was like, okay, let's be done with this area, but I think I'll be able skip the topical.

If my face, neck, and decolletege are red and stinging when I get done, that means I did it right...right? Laughing

I also did the Quasar on low frequency immediately afterwards and found that very soothing. Now is just plain emu and tomorrow I'll do CP's again.

IMO whoever analogized this process to tenderizing meat was spot on! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:55 am      Reply with quote
for ScotsLass: Thanks for your suggestions. I am so impressed with your knowledge and research. After reading your "justification" I just might try the topical first. Also, I've never numbed my face. I don't like the idea of the numbing agent getting absorbed into my skin and I can endure almost any amount of pain when it comes to vanity! You asked about the Tetrahexyldecyl C. ah hah...It is actually a derivative of Vit C so I shouldn't call it an actual Vit C. Dr Todorov wrote: it appears to be superior in both stability and efficacy to a ascorbyl palmitate, is oil soluable, can be used alone or combined with other active ingredients and may produce the skin benefits similar to Vit C but with less irritation.It stimulates synthesis of collagen and is also an antioxidant. It may lighten skin as it inhibits the synthesis of skin pigment melanin. There are only a couple suppliers in the world for this stuff apparently: Personalforumlators, and Lotioncrafters. In the morning I apply it in a lotion form, but am using the liquid drops without diluting after I roll. Hmmmm...I do not know the strength of the Tetrahexyldecyl. I never noticed that it is not on the container nor on my receipt?!? BTW, I paid $35 for .5 oz.

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Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:46 am      Reply with quote
I recently emailed the Nova Clinic to find out the recommended protocol for using the 1.5mm roller. I asked them whether rolling every week for six weeks and then taking a break for 90 days was appropriate. This was their reply:

There are several ways, your method below is one.

Another way is to use it every 2nd day, or 5 days out of 7. Another is to use it more firmly with an anesthetic gel once a week or once a
month.

See what fits in with your life style, all methods will work well for anti-aging.

Regards Nova Clinic


So according to their response, it would seem that it is not absolutely necessary to take a break from rolling.
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Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:05 am      Reply with quote
Thanks Keliu;
My question now is? If you were to go to the clinic. How often would you go for a treatment? I realize that the treatment there would be more invasive. But how many treatments are recommended. Do you do this for ever? What does the clinic use before a roll and after a roll?
Thanks in advance.
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Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:53 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
I recently emailed the Nova Clinic to find out the recommended protocol for using the 1.5mm roller. I asked them whether rolling every week for six weeks and then taking a break for 90 days was appropriate. This was their reply:

There are several ways, your method below is one.

Another way is to use it every 2nd day, or 5 days out of 7. Another is to use it more firmly with an anesthetic gel once a week or once a
month.

See what fits in with your life style, all methods will work well for anti-aging.

Regards Nova Clinic


So according to their response, it would seem that it is not absolutely necessary to take a break from rolling.


No, you are right, there's absolutely no need for a break. Someone has gotten the whole concept wrong.

Professional rolling (like you said in an earlier post) is very hard and need about a week to heal. This does not mean that it cannot be used more often if the skin is healing sooner. You should just not use it on wounded skin or with active acne.

The six treatments, then a break comes from the same fact that you look horrible for about a week after professional rolling. That makes it's a big deal to limit the treatments. Six professional sessions are enough to see a big change and enough to fulfill many people's wishes so they normally stop there for a while in order to see if additional treatments are needed.

Another point is that to compare 6 professional sessions with 6 at home sessions doesn't make sense. It's two completely different treatments. The professional rolling does not leave any skin looking normal. The pictures I linked to earlier illustrate the roughness of the treatment.

There's also misleading to say that it's recommended to have a professional treatment once a week for six weeks. The recommended interval is from one week to one month. The more you want to fix, the shorter the break.

And just for the record - rolling does not break down any collagen. If that was the case, you would only have a single roller session. Otherwise the last five of the six treatments would only break down what the others had done.

Rolling is based on exploiting the skin's wound healing process. This is explained very good in one of the articles I've posted earlier. Not the easiest reading, but once one gets the basic principles right, the mystery about rolling and how it works are solved. It's an extremely simple, safe and efficient routine! Smile
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