"Organic Certified" cosmetics and ingrdients?? Buy
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free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:08 pm

What I am about to post might rub some folks the wrong way here on this site. But, I know you are all very intelligent consumers, and I would not post this unless I had some strong evidence to back up the information.

We recently sent two of our Quality Control employees to a meeting in Washington DC to discuss the topic of "Organic Certified" in the cosmetic industry. Members of the FDA were there as well as the CTFA and many of the top cosmetic houses world wide. The outcome of the meeting was the fact that an ANSI Standard will be written and approved by sometime this summer on what can qualify as Organic Certified raw materials and cosmetics.

...Did this raise a "red flag" question with anyone??

I'm sure you are thinking...."well, what about this cosmetic product I am buying at this time with the fancy "organic certified" label on it right now!!??".

To be honest, it's hogwash! There is NO SUCH THING as organic certified cosmetic raw materials or consumer products AT THIS TIME. The cosmetic industry standard hasn't even been defined or written yet!

So, how do these companies qualify to put an official label on their product and logo that says "organic certified"? Well, they just do it! There is nobody stopping them from making their OWN DEFINITION of organic certified. It could be as limited and simple as saying I grew this emollient plant in soil with no artificial fertilizer....and now "I am organic certified"!! It is pure marketing hype, and they are using this to get consumers to buy their products even though the raw materials are probably no more "organic" than something used from another company that doesn't put an artifical "organic certified" logo on their product.

The bottom line is this, BUYER BEWARE! If you see a product advertised as "organic certified" or with a logo of some sort that claims an "organic certification" of some sort, it is just patently FALSE. There is NO DEFINED STANDARD for organic certified at this time. It may well be that when the ANSI Standard is created and written, a whole bunch of these falsely claimed "organic certified" companies won't pass the new testing standards and will be shown to be lying! This will be because the standard, in my opinion, will probably be written with multiple criteria to pass....more than just being grown in soil with no artificial fertilizer.

Hopefully, in the very near future this will be defined and a true stamp of approval will be created. But until then, if you are laying down extra money just because something or someone claims to be organic certified, you are falling into the marketing trap that is being exploited at your expense right now.

I'll keep you all informed when I find out when the ANSI Standard is defined and signed into law by all the participating countries worldwide.

John

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:13 pm

John, that is really interesting information and it is really good to know. Would you happen to know whether, at least some of the companies, happen to be using the same standard as what is set for "organically certified" food?

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:20 pm

Salli, that is a brilliant reply! That point was brought up to the meeting. Some of these companies may well be using standards that the food industry uses, and then claims organic certified in the cosmetic industry. BUT, the food industry is not the cosmetic industry! When is the last time you ate a lipstick? Have you had a drink of some shampoo lately? It's like comparing apples to oranges...or more like comparing apples to paint!

Like I said, some companies are just doing their own thing to get a neat looking logo on their package to generate sales from consumers who don't know the whole story.

John

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:26 pm

John, you have my word that I will not eat my lipstick or drink my shampoo. It is disturbing that I may very well have been putting something on my face that has a chemical pesticide, chemical herbicide or chemical fertilizer in it since, I believe (and please correct me if I am wrong)these substances can be absorbed in our pores.

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:58 pm

I also have another question. If there are in fact cosmetic companies making false claims of being "organic" I would think that this would fall under the Deceptive Trade Practices Act, at least for products from the US.

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:21 pm

I believe since there is no existing standard for "organic certified" cosmetic materials and products, they aren't really breaking any rules. It's like creating the first baseball stadium...you can make the outfield 300 ft or 3,000 ft and nobody would no the difference....until the final rules specify 300 ft.

John

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:31 pm

John, I agree with you to a point. I would think that in order to not be totally deceptive they would at the least have to have "organically" grown their first crop. This would mean that no they do not live up to the regulations for the food industry as "organic", but at least to an extent it is organic. Otherwise, it would be a total lie.

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:43 pm

Take a look at this google search page looking for "organic certified cosmetics" and you'll find a LOT of companies claiming organic cerified:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22organic+certified%22+cosmetics&btnG=Google+Search

HOWEVER, on that same first page is one entitled ECO-LABELS.ORG. They describe in detail what the USDA certifies as organic and therefore recieves the USDA Organic Certification for foods! Read down a little on that site and you will see clearly spelled out that this certification DOES NOT APPLY TO COSMETICS!!

http://www.eco-labels.org/label.cfm?LabelID=193

Pretty much backs up what I have written.

John

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:51 pm

John, I do apologize for seeming to be argumentative, which I promise is not my intent. Where I'm going with this is that I cannot see how a company could continue to get away with a complete fabrication if in fact the product they are producing doesn't even meet the definition in Webster's. I totally understand that these companies are not required to follow the same standards that food industry has set out. Very sorry but this does have me a bit vexed. Thank you for your patience.

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:57 pm

Well I'd be one of those people who has been rubbed the wrong way by this post. LOL But I also consider myself an intelligent person who can do my own research and form my own conclusions and just agree to disagree. There are in fact quite a few outstanding independent organizations out there that are licensed to grant organic certification on cosmetics and the ingredients used therein and do so very selectively. Most companies who use labelling under the term "organic" are usually referring to the natural ingredients used in their formulations - ie botanical, agricultural and/or farmed ingredients which, if grown according to standards, absolutely warrant the term "Certified Organic". I can assure you that these organizations do their best to qualify growers and organizations. Not only do companies have to meet stringent laws and standards and spend exorbitant amounts of money to make environmental changes, but certification in itself doesn't come cheap. There are many excellent 3rd party, independent councils that can grant organic certification in many countries and areas of the world such as Europe, Canada and Australia. It is against the law for any company to randomly brand a cosmetic, or food item for that matter, as organic if has not specifically been warranted so. This would be considered fraud. To say that all products that are marked organic are false is ridiculous and just not true.

You are correct in saying that the USDA and ANSI haven't decided on what can be branded as organic. In fact they can't seem to agree or make up their minds on much. There was quite the stir about organic branding a couple of years ago. Here are some links to a few articles with similar cases back in 2005 when the USDA pulled the branding and then reestablished it after all the controversy caused. Seems they're making a pattern of not being able to make up their minds which only looks bad on the USDA and not on other certification councils:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8074141/
http://www.newfarm.org/news/2005/0805/082305/seal.shtml
http://www.cosmeticsdesign.com/news/news-ng.asp?n=62107-nop-bronners-usda-organics

I could post on and on.

The facts are that the ANSI member, ASF International is currently working on criteria and standardization for "non food" items in the USA. (This doesn't stretch into the standardization and manufacturing of products in other countries where they have already outlined rules and regulations to be followed.) http://www.ansi.org/news_publications/news_story.aspx?menuid=7&articleid=1480

You are incorrect in saying that companies who were in fact granted this seal are displaying it fraudulently. They met the standards and rules imposed, they endeavoured to meet the needs of manufacturers and consumers, and they deserve to be recognised for it. It is hard enough for consumers to decide on cosmetics as is, especially without researching and becoming educated. For those of you, myself included, who swear by an organic way of life, including the use of organic ingredients, don't let this thread alarm you. You have not be taken for a ride if you have chosen an ethical company. John you are right in saying that Buyer Beware is a smart practice. This goes for anything you purchase, as there are companies out there who do lie about their ingredients and practices. But you will find that most companies who sell organic goods have a lot more than just good ingredients to back up their claims. They contribute to environmental and global causes, they run fair trade practices with other countries, and they treat their employees ethically as well. A lot more goes into a cosmetic than just the ingredients. I personally don't buy a product for its pretty packaging and it's labels, I buy into the company and the people as well. I could care less if the organic brand was removed from any of the organic products I use because I have researched the companies and have been impressed by them as whole. I will gladly continue to promote organic cosmetics and the use thereof, regardless of what the US decides on its homefront. Yet another reason why I am proud to be not only Canadian but a GLOBAL citizen.

For those of you interested in other organic certifcation councils, here are some links:

http://www.demeter.net/
http://www.ecocert.com/?lang=en
http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf?Open
http://www.australianorganic.com.au/
http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/indexIE.htm
http://www.ocia.org/
http://www.indocert.org/
http://www.ifoam.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_certification

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:59 pm

Hey, no problem. It seemed strange to us too, a company that produces jojoba oil from seed that is picked in the wild out here in the Senora Desert in Arizona. You can't get more "organic" than that, but we don't claim "organic" because there is no defined standard to operate to. So to us, we just sit back and have a little chuckle over the companies that claim organic even though there is no such thing...at this point in time.

Shoot, we could "claim" organic too, but we realize how ridiculous that is at the moment.

John

free skin care · Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:16 pm

I am a Certified Organic grower in Australia of vegetable and herb seeds and I had to go through rigorous soil samples and testing for three years before my property became Certified. Everything has to be organic, packaging, cleaning products to clean equipment even right down to the water I water my crop with. I don't mind doing this and doing it the correct way because consumers get what they pay for (quality), it is a real shame that the cosmetic industry do have some companies that make these false claims. It is like in the first year I could label say a lettuce as Organic but it took three years until I could label it as Certified Organic. It is unfortunate for the companies out there who are really doing their cosmetics Certified Organic, it is hard enough working to keep up the standards in the Organic industry without people making false claims.

free skin care · Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:10 am

I agree with you Mardy. I have nothing against growers who are trying to produce the best botanical products possible. I am all for good botanically derived ingredients in consumer's cosmetics. Our company is in the same boat, only dealing with natural oils such as jojoba, macadamia and high oleic sunflower. I guess my whole problem here, like you, is the people who claim something that is just not true, at least in the U.S., at this time.

I don't like deceptive practices to make a buck...

John

free skin care · Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:46 am

The claim of "organic" and "certified organic" is one that really amuses me as it is impossible, these days, to really produce anything that is "chemical free". I mean no offense to anyone who is legitimately credited as being "certified organic" but no one can control air pollutants or water pollutants. You have absolutely no control over what seeps into water supplies by whatever means.
Those who chase the pure organics are not realists. Sure, they can try to limit the chemicals but they won't avoid them totally no matter how much they pay.
Me? Well I'm happy to accept skin care that works even with its chemicals. At least I know what chemicals are in it because they are listed but the organic products list all the plant ingredients without any of the chemicals that have inadvertently made their way into the plants. Good luck to the greenies.

free skin care · Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:15 am

Well it's sad to hear that there are people who think the entire world is polluted. Obviously they have never been through the wilds of Africa, or deep in a South American jungle, high in the mountains, running through plains and fields, etc. There are many places on this planet that are still pure and untarnished by human ignorance. We still have virgin earth. And it is absolutely possible to grow pollutant free crops in many geographic locations on this earth (not to mention in greenhouses and controlled areas as well). The earth has an unbelievable natural filtration system. If you've ever looked at soft water treatment systems, you will see they are built in the fashion of the earth's makeup and on this natural concept with many layers of grains and minerals to purify water. Anyone who has studied earth sciences will understand the natural system of purification and our planet's immeasurable power of restoration, but I won't bore you all with a science lesson. You would think that in today's world with all the action plans and programs that are fianlly being discussed people would wake up and make an effort at saving our earth instead of giving up and saying, "oh well everything is polluted. Nothing we can do about it now." I think those of us who advocate organic living are not so much trying to avoid chemicals, but rather we are trying to help restore our earth to the way it once was and should be, and to spread the message that it's not too late. It only takes one person to start a community. We can all do our part. No one said it was easy being green, but it sure can be fun! (And I know Kermit will attest to that as well. LOL) Wink

free skin care · Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:09 am

wildflower wrote:

.....The earth has an unbelievable natural filtration system. If you've ever looked at soft water treatment systems, you will see they are built in the fashion of the earth's makeup and on this natural concept with many layers of grains and minerals to purify water. Anyone who has studied earth sciences will understand the natural system of purification and our planet's immeasurable power of restoration, but I won't bore you all with a science lesson. .... LOL) Wink

I for one, am never bored with science lessons, so keep them coming please, John C. Hill.

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