Bioque Serum XL - Has anyone used this??
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free skin care · Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:24 pm

I just found this product through a link at the top of the form page.
It looks pretty good - in theory, as always.
Wondering about the long-term effects to facial muscles though Question

I have always been a bit dubious about Botox etc...

free skin care · Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:24 pm

From what I have seen, it is basically the same as relaxaline but more expensive. It's probably quite good, relaxaline is. Very Happy

Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:13 am

Funny you should mention it. In the June 2004 issue of SPC magazine (a trade cosmetics and perfume mag) they talk about Bioque Serum XL and say that it's been a best seller in the "like Botox" market and attracts a lot of celebrity endorsement. SPC is a reputable cosmetic industry magazine (usually not read by the general public - so no incentive to advertise as much as say Vogue etc) and does not seem to have a bias. They don't seem to criticise this or the Relaxaderm cream by SkinDoctors. Relax-aline was too small to be mentioned I guess but it should be in the same category. All three products contain argireline which is the product responsible for relaxing the lines. The effects are temporary though from what I understand (much like Botox).

Mabsy

Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:47 pm

Any one here used Pro Protox 20?
Was just looking for a good wring - for more mature, heavily lined skin. More potent formula for wrinkle removal from sun damage
20% argireline (acetyl hexapeptide 3)

free skin care · Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:59 pm

Bioque Serum XL (and other products out there) didn't quite measure up to Avotox as you can see from these links:
http://www.productwatch.net/reviews/review_botox_alternative.htm?GTSE=goog&GTKW=avotox
http://www.e-consumer.org/botox_alternatives.htm
http://www.consumer-review.net/skin-care.html
http://www.usmedicalresearch.org/Botox_Alt/index.html

These online reviews seem to be from legitimate independent organizations so you can confidently take advice from them and know that they are not sponsored by any of the manufacturers.

Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:05 pm

Hello,
I am a first-time visitor to this site, and I really like it. I will probably come back, and will turn my sister on to this site as well!
I found this site because I was googling for info about argireline products - the "botox alternative" muscle relaxant creams. My reserach pointed to this recent post about Bioque XL.
I am an educated, research- and science-minded professional, so I was really excited when I started looking into the four websites listed below. THey offer comparison charts and professional-looking sites and information. But, after spending some time this afternoon looking at them, I have come to the conclusion that they are ALL very clever marketing sites for Avotox, and are NOT AT ALL the independent, medical or consumer-reviewed sites that they claim to be.

This is not to say that Avotox is a fraud or even a bad product, but it is to say that whatever company makes Avotox is extremely savvy at "stealth marketing" techniques. In fact, I suspect the person who posted the four sites listed is also an Avotox representative (if you are not, my apologies at being so suspicious of you without even meeting you!) I only suspect this because you mention all four sites, which is pretty remarkable feat since they are all, in my opinion, fronts for Avotox.
By the way, Avotox has it's own site, a perfectly fine site that looks like and offers information much the way the hundreds of other skin product sites do.
And you all know, I would hope, that there are a portion of posters to these sites that are representatives of the products they claim to like as average citizens. That's to be expected.

And we all know that sites will "put on their best face" for their product, or overhype them, or whatever...and we all try to sort through the hype versus the real science, at least I do before I'll drop $90US on one-half or one ounce of product!

If you take the time to look carefully around all four sites, you'll see that although they are very professional and use hip, smooth tag-lines and slogans,there is really very little of anything indepth to the sites themself. Several of them use the same exact sentences to describe certain products. One is designed to look like a "medical research" site - it's actually only one page (the "links" just move you up and down that page), one is designed to look like a Consumer Reports-type review--but notice how the only links in their so-called extensive list of reviewed products, from dog supplies to casinos to motor scooters, the only actual links are to Botox alternative creams, herbal acne products, and baldness reduction products..... Another of these sites is meant to make you think it's a bit like this one - consumers themselves "speak from experience". All offer comparison charts that do praise each product---but Avotox always wins. All of them seem to really focus in on the "customer service" of Avotox. That's great, but it's a little too strange a topic to have 4 random sites mention it. They all have a similar format...you can email them with your review or suggestion... And none of them seem to offer much of anything else on their "site" except the one page. In fact, it's VERY EASY to design sites like that and make them look professional.

I hope I haven't turned anyone off by being both a first time visitor and a potential ranter Shock

I promise I'm usually not so fired up! It's mostly that I was really interested in these sites, they were designed for the educated consumer like me in mind, I like their names "e-consumer, consumer-review" I like the comparison charts....in other words they know how to suck in a critical thinker like me. I wouldn't consider it unethical if they used their stealth marketing techniques to, say, get me to spend a few dollars to try a new beer...I try it once and I'll like it or I won't....but when they design savvy sites that purport to be unbiased and consumer-driven, and that aren't, and I am nearly pulled in, then how are less internet-savvy women, who don't enjoy endlessly researching this stuff like I do, how are they to know? IT makes me angry!
Anyhow....I am going to end up getting one of those argireline products. I'll let you all know which one and how it goes!

++++++++++
Bioque Serum XL (and other products out there) didn't quite measure up to Avotox as you can see from these links:
http://www.productwatch.net/reviews/review_botox_alternative.htm?GTSE=goog&GTKW=avotox
http://www.e-consumer.org/botox_alternatives.htm
http://www.consumer-review.net/skin-care.html
http://www.usmedicalresearch.org/Botox_Alt/index.html
Bioque Serum XL (and other products out there) didn't quite measure up to Avotox as you can see from these links:
http://www.productwatch.net/reviews/review_botox_alternative.htm?GTSE=goog&GTKW=avotox
http://www.e-consumer.org/botox_alternatives.htm
http://www.consumer-review.net/skin-care.html
http://www.usmedicalresearch.org/Botox_Alt/index.html

These online reviews seem to be from legitimate independent organizations so you can confidently take advice from them and know that they are not sponsored by any of the manufacturers.

Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:14 pm

Hi again,
I've just been looking around the site a bit more and really love how friendly and informative so many of you are! WOW, it's a dream come true for me. I feel like I should be paying to read some of your comments. Definitely better than the estheticians I've visited who don't seem to know much about the product or technique they're using.

Just wanted to say to eSquire415 that I saw your posts elsewhere and I feel like a falsely implied you in my last post about referring those websites with an ulterior motive. Sorry...I should've looked around the site more before I posted!

Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:13 pm

I have to been researching these products, I found one that has the highest concentration of the hp-3 which is called protox 20. It has a 20% concentration. Has anyone tried or used this product?

free skin care · Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:50 pm

With most of the products containing Argireline, the info will sound similar because most are quoting from the clinical studies that have been done on Argireline.

As I understand it, Argireline is the only form of acetyl hexapeptide-3 that has clinical trials to support it's claims.

The Centerchem site (company that trademarked Argireline and did clinical trials) indicates that the clinical trials were done with a 10% concentration. That produced 17% reduction in fine lines and wrinkles in 15 days and 27% in 30 days. There is no proof that higher concentrations will do more. In fact, I have heard that studies have been done with higher concentrations and that there was no appreciable difference in result.

I'm the world's worst about believing if a little is good, then more must be better, but since Argireline is a rather expensive ingredient, I'd say stick with the 10% creams or serums.

The one I use is 10% and only costs $36 for an ounce. It has worked extremely well for me. I've been using it for about 90 days now.

JUDY

Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:30 am

I've been having great fun with the Alphaderma CE stuff. It's the first Argireline product I have ever used (it's 10% conc.). I've been using it for two/three days and I think I'm finding it harder to frown actually. My family's laughing at me because I keep standing in front of the mirror and frowning (which might be a bit counteractive I guess

).

Mabsy

free skin care · Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:23 pm

I was just thinking.... hmm

Wonder if my trying the AlphaDerma CE will make any difference since I've already been using a product with Argireline for 4 months?

You know something neat I read about Argireline? Not only does it help with the lines and wrinkles that you already have, softening them; it helps prevent new ones from forming... not totally, but maybe not as fast as they would without it.

It makes sense if you think about it. The wrinkle is started and worsened (is that a word?) by the catecholamine release when the muscle is overactive (smiling, frowning, etc). If you "calm down" the muscle, and reduce catecholamine release, the wrinkles won't start or won't get worse.

Now, of course we all understand that nothing is absolute or perfect, Shame on you

but it makes sense that it could slow down the wrinkle process and actually reverse it on the ones that are already there.

At least that's what I'm praying for! Pray

JUDY

free skin care · Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:15 pm

I am looking forward to trying the AlphaDerma CE. I have been using Relaxaline for, mmm maybe a week to week & 1/2. Thinking about it now (with the usual thinking furrowed brow Rolling Eyes

) not sure if it is doing much yet. Maybe it is.. it hasn't been long. Not sure if it is because I am concentrating on whether there is a difference that is seems like it takes more effort to frown... Confused

Time will tell I guess...

Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:38 am

JudyMarshall wrote:

It makes sense if you think about it. The wrinkle is started and worsened (is that a word?) by the catecholamine release when the muscle is overactive (smiling, frowning, etc). If you "calm down" the muscle, and reduce catecholamine release, the wrinkles won't start or won't get worse.

Yeah, that's my view of it as well. I wasn't going to try it in the first place but then I thought that if this stuff can stop you from frowning as deeply as usual then it's also helping to prevent (or slow) the onset wrinkles.

Mabsy

free skin care · Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:37 am

Mabsy says: "Yeah, that's my view of it as well. I wasn't going to try it in the first place but then I thought that if this stuff can stop you from frowning as deeply as usual then it's also helping to prevent (or slow) the onset wrinkles."

I'm not so sure that's actually the way Argireline works after reading the actual clinical trials, paying close attention to the exact words used and reading multiple articles from different sources describing how it works.

The clinical trials says in "inhibits the snare complex" and "exocytosis". As best I can understand, the snare complex occurs as we age and is a result from "facial muscle strain". You know how some older people look like they are always frowning. Or, heaven forbid, the people whose face is constantly doing some wierd twitch. Also, as I understand it, exocytosis means EXCESSIVE action. So, what I'm getting is that Argireline inhibits the EXCESSIVE actions, and relaxes the (strained) muscles so that wrinkles aren't deepened and new ones aren't formed as easily.

I really don't get that it inhibits normal facial actions such as smiling or frowning. Having said that, it does make sense that people who smile more, might create lines more quickly or who frown more, might create lines more quickly. I'm not gonna quit smiling, but I might try to be a more positive person and that way, I naturally won't frown as much.

I think a lot of the damaging facial expressions are ones that happen so automatically, that we are not even aware of them. In that way, if Arigireline relaxes the muscles, perhaps the contraction isn't so dramatic and the catecholamine release isn't as severe. Thereby, creating fewer wrinkles.

Now, maybe we all need to learn to be at peace inside to help our faces. Hmmmmmm
JUDY

Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:34 am

JudyMarshall wrote:

In that way, if Arigireline relaxes the muscles, perhaps the contraction isn't so dramatic and the catecholamine release isn't as severe. Thereby, creating fewer wrinkles.

That sounds good to me Very Happy

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