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Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:52 pm  |
about growth factors?
There seem to be some opinions that they are dangerous and carcinogenic. On the other hand, there are companies like ReVive (which I really want to try) and JM has a few products with TGF beta-1 and skin actives that sell growth factors.
So, what do you say?
here's a link someone posted at MUA.
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:44 am |
| Hi Ibianca, I'm not too informed but I do pay attention to ingredients. While I'm not prone to quit using a product just because of the most recent scientific studies, [I still use DMAE and parabens/silicone don't really bother me] I'm uncomfortable with the idea of growth hormones in my skincare product just as I'm uncomfortable with GMO's in my good. For something like this I prefer to take a wait and see approach. |
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44 – combo/oily skin with a tendency towards clogged pores. Thanks to EDS, tweaked my skincare routine and normalized skin… no more breakouts. PSF, silk powder, Janson Beckett, Cellbone, NIA24 are staples. |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:02 am |
finally something i know about, haha! okay, well, there's a really fine line. why do cancer cells secrete tgf-beta? because it--among other growth factors--are important for its growth and proliferation. it's not that too much tgf-beta CAUSES cancer, per se, but just that cancer cells produce a lot of it themselves, so as to induce angiogenesis, etc., at the expense of surrounding cells who perhaps don't produce as many growth factors. if your cells are healthy, then adding tgf-beta in theory would help them proliferate and grow faster = good. on the flip side, more cell divisions = a higher probability for mutations, since mutations mainly occur during the dna synthesis stage and a subsequent stage, mitosis. on the flip flip side, if you have cells with a significant amount of mutations, then adding tgf-beta may not be the best choice since you don't know if you're actually helping your healthy cells or your cancer-prone cells.
but anyway, the bottom line is cancer cells produce a lot of tgf-beta because it allows a cell to be "well-fed" and grow faster as a result. if your cells are healthy, then adding tgf-beta will help them proliferate. if your cells are unhealthy (depending on amount of uv exposure, your personal history, genetics, etc.), then proliferation might lead to an increase in your chances of developing cancer.
okay, that's it. geez; sorry so long!  |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:19 am |
| So if your skin is healthy and doesn't have any polyps etc, then it would be OK to use it? |
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my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:38 am |
I'm wary of growth factors because we aren't talking about nutrients for the skin, but actually involving ourselves directly with cellular communication.
youngrace,
Macrophages and keratinocytes will secrete growth factors to speed in wound repair right? Do you think your body might build a resistance to growth factors if you use them for a long period of time? Then when you stop, whatever amount of growth factors your body is producing on its own isn't able induce much of a response in the target cells? |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:59 am |
| youngrace wrote: |
finally something i know about, haha! okay, well, there's a really fine line. why do cancer cells secrete tgf-beta? because it--among other growth factors--are important for its growth and proliferation. it's not that too much tgf-beta CAUSES cancer, per se, but just that cancer cells produce a lot of it themselves, so as to induce angiogenesis, etc., at the expense of surrounding cells who perhaps don't produce as many growth factors. if your cells are healthy, then adding tgf-beta in theory would help them proliferate and grow faster = good. on the flip side, more cell divisions = a higher probability for mutations, since mutations mainly occur during the dna synthesis stage and a subsequent stage, mitosis. on the flip flip side, if you have cells with a significant amount of mutations, then adding tgf-beta may not be the best choice since you don't know if you're actually helping your healthy cells or your cancer-prone cells.
but anyway, the bottom line is cancer cells produce a lot of tgf-beta because it allows a cell to be "well-fed" and grow faster as a result. if your cells are healthy, then adding tgf-beta will help them proliferate. if your cells are unhealthy (depending on amount of uv exposure, your personal history, genetics, etc.), then proliferation might lead to an increase in your chances of developing cancer.
okay, that's it. geez; sorry so long! |
Well, that's a lot of help 
No, it really does help and you seem to know a lot about it. On some other board people said that when they put it on the skin indiscriminantly, their moles (existing ones) started growing 
So, how do I know that my skin is "healthy"????
So, my next question is, if I "bypass" the small mole I have on my face (I have only one), is it "safe"? |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:18 pm |
| I don't know if I qualify as "informed," but I really don't see any problem with products that include growth factors. They aren't there in high enough concentration to cause any problems. |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:38 pm |
I got scared because I use JM's transformation serum and really like it. TGF beta is one of the ingredients.
Also, ReVive has all kinds of growth factors in their products.
What I don't understand is that all these products are FDA approved  |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:59 pm |
rmb, you're absolutely right. it's not really providing nutrients for the skin so much as providing somewhat of a "nutrient recruiting" factor, if you will. 
 m...well, there can be gfr (growth factor receptor) fatigue. receptors are internalized after the ligand binds, which /generally/ leads to the receptor being sorted in the cytoplasm and then recycled back to the membrane. however, there are cases where constant stimulation of a receptor leads it to be internalized indefinitely. there are lots of studies investigating this, but none (as far as i know) that have come to a definite conclusion as of yet.
again, it's really difficult to know if you really have "healthy" cells or not. even if your cells are healthy to start with, applying TOO much growth factor might speed up the rate of proliferation a wee bit too much, which can lead to faster accumulation of mutations. just my two cents, but i think the concentration of any product on the market can't be TOO ridiculously high...but then again, i really have no idea. to evade the rf thing, i guess i would apply gf in cycles, so as to minimize growth factor fatigue. m...and if you already have moles or polyps on your face, i guess it wouldn't be smart to apply growth factor to those--i'm not surprised that they would grow (i mean, they named it GROWTH factor, after all!).
i'm not a doctor or anything ... just a disclaimer, this is only what i know and am rattling off the top of my head. hopefully it isn't too confusing! |
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Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:59 am |
| lbianca wrote: |
I got scared because I use JM's transformation serum and really like it. TGF beta is one of the ingredients.
Also, ReVive has all kinds of growth factors in their products.
What I don't understand is that all these products are FDA approved |
I am scared too... I just order JM product .. |
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Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:38 am |
Thank you for the reply youngrace! It's much appreciated.  |
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Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:09 am |
Hello!
I rarely have much to say on this board, but I wanted to let you know that I have been on Revive for a year. I have used their $600.00 product (two run throughs), as well as their $1500.00 product (two run throughs as well) called Peau Magnifique.
I have noticed NO difference in my skin, or growth in the areas I was hoping to build up (nasal labial folds!).
I have also used ALL of their other products (have spent many thousands) and I have seen no difference at all. I honestly thought the HGF would help me but alas, not a bit.
I hope this helps somewhat in your decision making process.
Blessings... |
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Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:31 am |
Thanks SunRose. I really wanted to try 2 or 3 ReVive products that got really good reviews - The eye renewal cream, revive sensitif lotion and the serum protectif. I was willing to pay once to try as long as they didn't cause damage and now I'm afraid to try  |
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Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:47 am |
Ibianca, I've used some of the ReVive products, too - though a long time ago. I have to agree with SunRose; I didn't find they did much either.
If you still decide to give growth factors a try, maybe you'd want to look into SkinMedica's Nouricel-MD products. I don't have any experience with them, as I'm not ready to go back into growth factors, but SkinMedica products get good reviews here. Also, they're cheaper than ReVive. |
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