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hyguee
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Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:06 am      Reply with quote
Has anyone had any experience with Epionce?
bethany
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Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:08 am      Reply with quote
Bumping this old thread because I am interested in the skin barrier repair and anti-inflammatory aspects of this line. The hyperpigmentation correction is also compelling.

I didn't realize it, but the Epionce founder (Dr. Carl Thornfeldt) is the author of one of my favorite articles on skin inflammation. And we create inflammation through various topicals, using tools like dermarolling and PMD, etc.

My personal belief is that the key is to go through spurts of inflammation, but then take significant breaks to let skin fully recover. I may look into adding some of his anti-inflammatory products after my ReAura or needling series.


Chronic inflammation is etiology of extrinsic aging
Carl R Thornfeldt, MD, FAAD
http://epionce.com.hk/pdf/0308_JournCosmDerm.pdf

Website: https://www.epionce.com/
Product Reviews: http://www.lovelyskin.com/details.asp?PID=117882&MID=489&PG=1
Clinical Studies (compares Epionce products to Renova, NuDerm, etc.) http://www.epionce.com/resources/
Webinars: https://www.epionce.com/resources/education/
His book: ($89 so I am going to start with the webinars and see what I can learn first) http://www.alluredbooks.com/The-New-Ideal-in-Skin-Health-p89.html

Any thoughts or experience in using these products are greatly appreciated!

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ShastaGirl
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Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:56 am      Reply with quote
I used Epionce a few years back on the recommendation of my derm. I used the moisturizer in the jar, Renew and Fortify. I only bought it once and wasn't very impressed with it for the price. It just didn't seem different than other (cheaper) moisturizers.
ShastaGirl
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Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:03 am      Reply with quote
I will add, at the time I used it, I don't recall seeing the clinical data you posted. That certainly is intriguing, especially the comparison to retin a. I use Retin a with no issues, but for those that have trouble with it, the Epionce data might make it work a try.

That study was using multiple products in the line. And the Renova users were applying a cream over it, which could buffer the Renova results somewhat.
rileygirl
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Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:11 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:


I may look into adding some of his anti-inflammatory products after my ReAura or needling series.




Have you decided if you will add one of his products to your routine, Bethany?
Barefootgirl
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Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:57 am      Reply with quote
This thread from 2009 also contains some interesting comments & information (IMO) regarding inflammation:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=482520&highlight=thornfeldt#482520

BFG
bethany
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Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:33 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
bethany wrote:


I may look into adding some of his anti-inflammatory products after my ReAura or needling series.




Have you decided if you will add one of his products to your routine, Bethany?


I am going to order the Renew & Fortify, and use it over my Environ C-Quence when I am done my series of ReAurea treatments.

Quote:
Epionce Renew & Fortify products deeply penetrate through the skin barrier to reach targeted cells to strengthen, repair and fortify the skin. Daily use helps reduce the appearance of fine lines, wrinkles and hyperpigmentation while strengthening the skin barrier and reducing inflammatory factors. The result is smoother, softer, hydrated skin that functions at its optimum.

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bethany
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Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:43 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
This thread from 2009 also contains some interesting comments & information (IMO) regarding inflammation:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=482520&highlight=thornfeldt#482520

BFG


That is one of the articles I read many years ago and determined that less is more when it came to dermarolling, though people thought I was nuts at the time, lol.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=385308&highlight=thornfeldt#385308

I'll skim through the rest of the thread, since I noticed there were some other recommendations on there as well. Thanks!

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rileygirl
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Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:14 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:


I am going to order the Renew & Fortify, and use it over my Environ C-Quence when I am done my series of ReAurea treatments.



Keep us posted how it is! I ordered the medical barrier cream (well a kit with that in it, the milk cleanser and the sunscreen - all smaller sizes). I wanted to try that one for my eczema but of course right after I ordered it, I used plain old vaseline, and my eczema has disappeared (at least for now)! LOL.
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Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:15 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:
This thread from 2009 also contains some interesting comments & information (IMO) regarding inflammation:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=482520&highlight=thornfeldt#482520

BFG


That is one of the articles I read many years ago and determined that less is more when it came to dermarolling, though people thought I was nuts at the time, lol.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=385308&highlight=thornfeldt#385308



It all reminds me of the 302 skin care philosophy, which is what I was really drawn to with that line - meaning how the actives were rotated and noted used all the time.
Barefootgirl
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Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:40 am      Reply with quote
It was interesting to go back in time to read this older thread and the data in it.

With respect to topicals, it doesn't appear to me that too much has changed.

I think the bigger news these days is in the gadgets.

BFG
bethany
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Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:51 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
It was interesting to go back in time to read this older thread and the data in it.

With respect to topicals, it doesn't appear to me that too much has changed.

I think the bigger news these days is in the gadgets.

BFG


I 100% agree with you.

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bethany
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Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:53 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:

It all reminds me of the 302 skin care philosophy, which is what I was really drawn to with that line - meaning how the actives were rotated and noted used all the time.


I kind of miss 302. It just didn't seem to be strong enough for anti-aging, but who really knows....

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cm5597
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Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:19 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:

My personal belief is that the key is to go through spurts of inflammation, but then take significant breaks to let skin fully recover.


This theory is essentially known as hormesis, in the scientific community. It's not widely accepted yet, but it's gaining some ground.

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rileygirl
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Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:11 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:


I kind of miss 302. It just didn't seem to be strong enough for anti-aging, but who really knows....


I don't miss 302, but I think his theory of alternating actives was pretty spot on!
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Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:22 am      Reply with quote
Hi riley,

Can you refresh my memory on his theories? (I forget the name of that scientist)...

BFG
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Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:19 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
Hi riley,

Can you refresh my memory on his theories? (I forget the name of that scientist)...

BFG


Hey BFG, I forget his name, too, but his theory was not using any "active" or product every night. Pretty much to alternate products/actives and not to overuse anything, keeping a simple routine, no acids, and to go slow with adding new products.
bethany
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Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:02 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:
Hi riley,

Can you refresh my memory on his theories? (I forget the name of that scientist)...

BFG


Hey BFG, I forget his name, too, but his theory was not using any "active" or product every night. Pretty much to alternate products/actives and not to overuse anything, keeping a simple routine, no acids, and to go slow with adding new products.


Dr. Richard Huber (a phd, not a medical doctor)

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WhiteWolf
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Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:37 pm      Reply with quote
Which product is best for after laser care? The Medical Barrier cream?

They have lots of products and it's a bit confusing to me but they all look pretty good. I just need something that calms down redness.

- Thanks

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Barefootgirl
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Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:44 am      Reply with quote
I remember now. I looked at their barrier repair products and ultimately decided that Cerave would do the same, for far less $.

BFG
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Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:50 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
I remember now. I looked at their barrier repair products and ultimately decided that Cerave would do the same, for far less $.

BFG


I think Cerave can definitely help repair the skin barrier, but it doesn't appear to have many anti-inflammatory ingredients.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/145887-ingredients-in-cerave-moisturizing-cream/


Here is an updated article from Dr. T on the importance of both skin barrier repair and anti-inflammation efforts. Dr. Y was also a big fan of immediately repairing the skin barrier as well, and had some post procedure products with antioxidants in his Remergent line.

http://www.epionce.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Dr.-Carl-Thornfelt-July-LNE-2012.pdf

http://www.epionce.com/2012/06/epionce-renewals-vs-drugstore-moisturizers/

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bethany
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Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:54 am      Reply with quote
WhiteWolf wrote:
Which product is best for after laser care? The Medical Barrier cream?

They have lots of products and it's a bit confusing to me but they all look pretty good. I just need something that calms down redness.

- Thanks


It looks like the Medical Barrier cream is what they recommend for after a laser treatment, but the lasers are probably stronger than our home units. You could probably use the Extreme Barrier Repair cream too.

ETA: here is an article on the Medical Repair Cream
https://www.epionce.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/10_ClinicalStudy_EpionceSuperiorinCutaneousHealing.pdf

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Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:37 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:
I remember now. I looked at their barrier repair products and ultimately decided that Cerave would do the same, for far less $.

BFG


I think Cerave can definitely help repair the skin barrier, but it doesn't appear to have many anti-inflammatory ingredients.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/145887-ingredients-in-cerave-moisturizing-cream/


Here is an updated article from Dr. T on the importance of both skin barrier repair and anti-inflammation efforts. Dr. Y was also a big fan of immediately repairing the skin barrier as well, and had some post procedure products with antioxidants in his Remergent line.

http://www.epionce.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Dr.-Carl-Thornfelt-July-LNE-2012.pdf

http://www.epionce.com/2012/06/epionce-renewals-vs-drugstore-moisturizers/


Ok, now I'm confused. I thought we didn't want to use anything that would have a anti-inflammatory effect after laser/dermarolling etc. because it would effect how much collagen is produced.

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bethany
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Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:51 pm      Reply with quote
CookieD wrote:
bethany wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:
I remember now. I looked at their barrier repair products and ultimately decided that Cerave would do the same, for far less $.

BFG


I think Cerave can definitely help repair the skin barrier, but it doesn't appear to have many anti-inflammatory ingredients.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/145887-ingredients-in-cerave-moisturizing-cream/


Here is an updated article from Dr. T on the importance of both skin barrier repair and anti-inflammation efforts. Dr. Y was also a big fan of immediately repairing the skin barrier as well, and had some post procedure products with antioxidants in his Remergent line.

http://www.epionce.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Dr.-Carl-Thornfelt-July-LNE-2012.pdf

http://www.epionce.com/2012/06/epionce-renewals-vs-drugstore-moisturizers/


Ok, now I'm confused. I thought we didn't want to use anything that would have a anti-inflammatory effect after laser/dermarolling etc. because it would effect how much collagen is produced.


I am not planning to use anything anti-inflammatory until I am done my treatment cycle.

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:45 am      Reply with quote
This may be another one of those YMMV issues. I don't experience a lot of inflammation - maybe my skin has "toughened" over the years, I don't know...so Cerave may have been enough for me then and probably now too.

Of course, over the years, I have also learned to cycle my topicals to keep skin from too much inflammation

The one topical that used to give me the most inflammation was tazarotene. I have not used it in years because it seems to be very expensive and the AllDayChemist formula does not appear to me, to be genuine.

Anyone else on tazarotene experiences?

Thanks for the additional links..much appreciated.

BFG
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