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Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:16 pm  |
I know there has been several threads here on niacinamide for topical anti aging and some discussion on it's negative effect on SIRT1. Now there is a study that hit the web yesterday about
nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide or NAD that is going to be studied in humans to reverse the aging process. Here is one of many articles...
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/20/anti-ageing-human-trials
My question is this. How is nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD)different from plane ole niacinamide? If there are any scientist/chemistry majors that could explain this I would appreciate it.
I use niacinamide on my skin which has probably done more to reverse my skin aging than anything else I've ever come across and that includes Vitamin C, Retin A, copper peptides and all the many other things I've tried.
Those of you who are interested, just google "NAD anti aging" and a bunch of stuff will pop. Thanks! |
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Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:57 am |
What type of product do you use on your skin that contains niacinamide or is it just a vitamin/capsule that you open?
I have rosacea so I avoid niacin just bc it normally makes my skin flush.
Interesting study, I had heard about it too. |
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Joined the 50 club several years back, blonde w/ fair/sensitive skin, Texas humidity and prone to rosacea, light breakouts and sunburns, combo skin type, starting to see sundamage and fine lines |
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Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:24 am |
I don't use niacin but it's cousin niacinamide which doesn't cause the flushing that niacin does. I started using Olay Regenerist cleansing cloths as kind of a make up remover and the first ingredients in it is niacinamide which made a big difference in my skin so I started making my own skin cream with niacinamide as the first ingredient.
Anyway, my thinking was that if it was so great on the outside of the skin it must be fantastic if taken internally but this may not be the case if it stimulates the SIRT1 in a negative way, promoting aging. So at this point I'm confused especially given the new studies out in the news regarding NAD (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide) as an anti-aging factor. NAD is made from niacinamide......I think.
Oh, so confused now. Can anyone clear this up? |
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Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:26 pm |
| AnnieR wrote: |
| What type of product do you use on your skin that contains niacinamide or is it just a vitamin/capsule that you open? |
This wasn't directed to me, but I use CeraVe p.m. moisturizer, which contains niacinamide. |
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50+, fair brown/brown, Obagi, L2K, AALS; battling: pigmentation, crepeyness, sag |
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Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:05 am |
I have Cerave but not the PM. So it sounds like the regular does not contain it.
Interesting on the difference in the two. I need to take some time and research it when I get a few moments.
So you can buy it as an additive to mix in. Anyone have a good link? |
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Joined the 50 club several years back, blonde w/ fair/sensitive skin, Texas humidity and prone to rosacea, light breakouts and sunburns, combo skin type, starting to see sundamage and fine lines |
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Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:47 am |
Well, I unintentionally got this thread discussion going in a different direction than I originally intended it to go. Perhaps I should have labeled it more like "Niacinamide supplements" or something.
I use niacinamide on the outside of my skin with fabulous success but my question is about using the supplement on the inside of my body. With these new studies about anti-aging using a different kind of niacinamide called nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) which greatly revitalized cells. I guess my question is does anyone know if regular niacinamide supplements can contribute to anti aging or pro-aging when taken orally??? And how is regular niacinamide different from NAD??
Here is a thread from a previous discussion one EDS which seemed to indicate oral niacinamide contributing to aging....
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=37387
And here is one of the many articles about using NAD on rats and turning back the clock on these little critters. Human studies are next.
http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/12/20/121601/anti-aging-research-mice
Should I take niacinamide? Should I not take it????? I'm very confused. |
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MelissaWillow
New Member
 
Joined: 09 Jan 2014
Posts: 1
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Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:38 am |
| I found a company selling a supplement containing NAD called "Zao Reset" and am thinking of trying it. Has anyone else tried this product yet? |
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Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:17 pm |
| tessera wrote: |
| AnnieR wrote: |
| What type of product do you use on your skin that contains niacinamide or is it just a vitamin/capsule that you open? |
This wasn't directed to me, but I use CeraVe p.m. moisturizer, which contains niacinamide. |
I have the CeraVe PM moisturizer and like it. It is not as heavy or moisturizing as the CeraVe regular lotion or cream.
Other products that contain niacinamide are:
Paula's choice - toner (skin recovery)
Olay Regenerist serum
You can also buy niacinamide powder and DIY. I have the powder from Garden of Wisdom; but I have not done any formulating with it (yet.) |
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Canadian with fair skin. 50+ years old sensitive and reactive. |
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Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:14 pm |
| Autumn1995 wrote: |
| tessera wrote: |
| AnnieR wrote: |
| What type of product do you use on your skin that contains niacinamide or is it just a vitamin/capsule that you open? |
This wasn't directed to me, but I use CeraVe p.m. moisturizer, which contains niacinamide. |
I have the CeraVe PM moisturizer and like it. It is not as heavy or moisturizing as the CeraVe re gular lotion or cream.
Other products that contain niacinamide are:
Paula's choice - toner (skin recovery)
Olay Regenerist serum
You can also buy niacinamide powder and DIY. I have the powder from Garden of Wisdom; but I have not done any formulating with it (yet.) |
Thank you, but my original question has to do with taking niacin internally. The study that I sited was a form of niacin taken internally that didn't inhibit the SIRT1. The supplement Niacin and niacinamide inhibit the SIRT1 gene which causes aging but with this new study using this different form of niacin, it actually reversed aging in mice considerably. I was just wondering if anyone knew anything more about this supplement. |
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Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:41 am |
I did reading on this.. and I have started taking it as a supplement. Studies show it prevents dementia and alzheimer's.
Sorry not to be more specific..but if you google you will see the studies.
I've also been using it topically as a beauty mask.. dissolved aspirin, CeRave cream and a capsule of Niacinimide. |
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Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:30 pm |
| hotdocgirl wrote: |
I did reading on this.. and I have started taking it as a supplement. Studies show it prevents dementia and alzheimer's.
Sorry not to be more specific..but if you google you will see the studies.
I've also been using it topically as a beauty mask.. dissolved aspirin, CeRave cream and a capsule of Niacinimide. |
There is a band new study using a different form of niacin and here is a quote from the article...
"Researchers injected a chemical called nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, or NAD, which reduces in the body as we age. The addition of this compound led to the radical reversal in the ageing of the mice."
So this different form of niacin, NAD, can be taken as a supplement and is perhaps much better than niacin. I already take niacin but always looking for some way to reduce aging. If NAD is injected though it might respond in the body differently as it bypasses the stomach, liver and kidneys. I donno. Just trying to find out more about NAD.
Here's the article again....
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/20/anti-ageing-human-trials |
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Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:29 pm |
I did a lot of reading around.. and nothing i read was conclusive proof. It was just enough to make me feel good about taking it..
What turned me on to the thought was that my sister told me a doctor told her that women suffering from fibromyalgia are deficient in niacin and have adrenal failure. That taking high doses of niacin will cure that.
So it sparked my interest in reading about it..and one thing lead to another. From all of that reading.. i learned that taking nicinimide is safer than niacin. that it also helps with mood and memory..
so that is why I'm taking it.. wish I could recall each article.. but don't
http://www.livestrong.com/article/495218-niacinamide-for-depression/ |
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Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:31 pm |
Hi, interesting post!
I did search something about the study done on the mice and came accross a post with this answer, just crossposting here bits of info:
http://healthland.time.com/2013/12/19/reversing-aging-not-as-crazy-as-you-think/
Response given by "Regenam":
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"First the compound that reversed aging in this study is nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN), which gets converted into NAD in the body. It is the amount of NAD in the cell that is key to the anti-aging effects.
Note that they injected the NMN, it was not taken orally. So is there anything one can take to see if there's benefit? Sinclair suggested using oral NAD, but another study by Kimura et al (2006) suggests that oral NADH (a form of NAD) is degraded before reaching the bloodstream. Another possibility is that NMN itself is a derivative of Vitamin B3, but as mice age there is less of the enzyme that converts vitamin B3 into NMN. Since NAD is the key metabolite that "reverses" aging in skeletal muscle in mice, it is unclear whether Vitamin B3 would be of much benefit.
Second, "aging" was only reversed in skeletal muscle, and then not completely. Treatment did NOT result in regained muscle strength. Here is a direct quote from the actual paper: "we did not observe an improvement in muscle strength (data not shown)." The authors state that this does NOT work in the brain, liver etc.
If you are interested in hearing about how this fits in with other recent advances take a look at "Medical Implications of Basic Research in Aging," a recent book (2013) that goes into just this kind of research and the implications for personal health and longevity. |
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Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:04 pm |
| Tiptoedancer wrote: |
| My question is this. How is nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD)different from plane ole niacinamide? |
Just realised part of your initial question, though I expect it has been answered already. The Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide is what they call an enzyme of the Niacin,... it is not IT but a part of IT. Taken as a medicine it is not the same as the "whole" Niacin, I guess that is why it is also sold as an individual supplement to prevent certain health issues without the 'maybe' possible niacin flushes...
Because of certain health problems I'm quite interested in Niacin supplements and never had any issue -quite like the flush actually, just put on my serums and feel the skin absorbs them better!
Back to the actual Niacin -whole vitamin versus coenzyme 1 NAD; you may find this video interesting... not too sure about the SIRT1 effect but I think I'll go on taking it for now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDmNmLW5VeI |
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Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:19 pm |
After reading more, and with all the knowledge nowadays of transdermal absorption,...with transdermal patches for whatnot,... I'm now toying with the idea of opening a NAD capsule and mix the powder into some sort of DIY compound cream... for it to be absorbed through the skin -that way it would bypass the stomach acid phase that seems to cancel its positive effects and be more like the direct injection into bloodstream, right? Even if it "only reversed skeletel muscle" I would gladly give my sore back a good rest for a few years more with this!!!
Any thoughts?
Tiptoedancer, have you yourself started taking NAD after reading the study?
I'm looking around to order some to try. |
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Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:14 pm |
| ATester wrote: |
After reading more, and with all the knowledge nowadays of transdermal absorption,...with transdermal patches for whatnot,... I'm now toying with the idea of opening a NAD capsule and mix the powder into some sort of DIY compound cream... for it to be absorbed through the skin -that way it would bypass the stomach acid phase that seems to cancel its positive effects and be more like the direct injection into bloodstream, right? Even if it "only reversed skeletel muscle" I would gladly give my sore back a good rest for a few years more with this!!!
Any thoughts?
Tiptoedancer, have you yourself started taking NAD after reading the study?
I'm looking around to order some to try. |
I haven't started taking NAD yet. I've been looking at different sites that sell NAD> Like you mentioned, in the study they injected NAD into the mice so I don't know if taking it orally would do anything. The stomach acids would probably destroy most of it. I just don't know what to use to make it transdermal. DMSO comes to mind but that stuff gives me the hebie-jeebies. I'm not so sure if DMSO is safe.
What are you thinking of using to make it transdermal??
Personally, if I can find something that will slow the aging process down I would be a happy camper. |
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Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm |
| ATester wrote: |
| Tiptoedancer wrote: |
| My question is this. How is nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD)different from plane ole niacinamide? |
Just realised part of your initial question, though I expect it has been answered already. The Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide is what they call an enzyme of the Niacin,... it is not IT but a part of IT. Taken as a medicine it is not the same as the "whole" Niacin, I guess that is why it is also sold as an individual supplement to prevent certain health issues without the 'maybe' possible niacin flushes...
Because of certain health problems I'm quite interested in Niacin supplements and never had any issue -quite like the flush actually, just put on my serums and feel the skin absorbs them better!
Back to the actual Niacin -whole vitamin versus coenzyme 1 NAD; you may find this video interesting... not too sure about the SIRT1 effect but I think I'll go on taking it for now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDmNmLW5VeI |
Thanks you for the information. I watched the video. Actually, my father lived to be 95 even though he never took a vitamin in his life and ate anything he wanted so I take some of this information with a grain of salt. I prefer to read scientific abstracts and results of double blind studies rather than anecdotal stories but that's just me.
I have a bit of a problem with Dr. Hoffer. He supposedly cures schizophrenia with niacin and other vitamins but when I looked at the studies it didn't turn out to be quite the whole story. Many of the people didn't really have schizophrenia, but psychotic depression which can be a transitory state brought on by trauma and often is misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. Others diagnosed themselves as schizophrenic but aren't and then self medicate with niacin. Believe me if schizophrenia could be cured simply by taking niacin it would be on the cover of every major newspaper, magazine and internet news outlet in the world.
That's not to say that nutrition isn't very important for depression and other ills but it's not a cure all. I myself take many, many herbs and vitamins though sometimes I wonder if it does anything at all. I donno, I guess it does.
But anyway, the NAD looked very, very promising and I'm looking into it in depth. |
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Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:23 pm |
Thank you Annie. I have found niacinamide to be wonderful for the skin. However, what I'm looking for IS NOT a skin cream. This is a quote from The Guardian regarding the Harvard research.
"Two-year-old mice were given a compound over a week, moving back the key indicators of ageing to that of a six-month-old mouse. Researchers said this was the equivalent of making a 60-year-old person feel like a 20-year-old."
It goes on to say:
"The research focused on an area of cells, called mitochondria, which produce energy. Over time, the communication between this area and the cell nucleus degrades, leading to the ageing process.
Researchers injected a chemical called nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, or NAD, which reduces in the body as we age. The addition of this compound led to the radical reversal in the ageing of the mice."
What they injected was nicotinamine mononucleotide or NMN which converts to NAD in the body. The amount of NAD in a cell is what keeps the cell from aging.
So ATester was wondering about a transdermal method to absorb the NAD into the blood stream.
ATester, do you think DMSO would work? |
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Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:07 am |
Tiptoedancer, DMSO is what I'd stumbled over while searching about transdermal patches a few months ago, as the ingredient in common in them that is a solvent able to penetrate the skin and apparently not causing it any harm -the pharmaceutical-grade product not the industrial-grade one. And by what I've read it does sound quite appropiate to dissolve the NAD+ in it, the question would be to try and find out percentages and so on, whether overdoing the NAD+ would cause more harm than good so as to having to be careful with the amount one wants delivered through the skin.
I've never used either of them, yet interested on trying even the DMSO on its own just for the painkilling properties for sore muscles it seems to have. I've been checking on where to purchase it in liquid form to be able to use on its own or to mix with actives, found it also in gel form but already mixed with aloe-vera so not so keen on it for this purpose. You mention it gives you the hebie-jeebies ?? What do you mean? Does it itch? |
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Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:30 pm |
| ATester wrote: |
Tiptoedancer, DMSO is what I'd stumbled over while searching about transdermal patches a few months ago, as the ingredient in common in them that is a solvent able to penetrate the skin and apparently not causing it any harm -the pharmaceutical-grade product not the industrial-grade one. And by what I've read it does sound quite appropiate to dissolve the NAD+ in it, the question would be to try and find out percentages and so on, whether overdoing the NAD+ would cause more harm than good so as to having to be careful with the amount one wants delivered through the skin.
I've never used either of them, yet interested on trying even the DMSO on its own just for the painkilling properties for sore muscles it seems to have. I've been checking on where to purchase it in liquid form to be able to use on its own or to mix with actives, found it also in gel form but already mixed with aloe-vera so not so keen on it for this purpose. You mention it gives you the hebie-jeebies ?? What do you mean? Does it itch? |
It was the industrial grade DMSO that gives me the hebie-jeebies. I think the pharmaceutical grade would be fine. I think starting out with a very low percentage would be wise. How would you figure out the percentage of NAD?
Also, there are NAD lozenges............lozenge.http://www.vitaminmom.com/now-foods-nad-25mg-60- I'm wondering if it's placed under the tongue whether that would bypass the stomach or make it easier to mix with the DMSO? |
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Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:25 pm |
| Tiptoedancer wrote: |
Also, there are NAD lozenges............lozenge.http://www.vitaminmom.com/now-foods-nad-25mg-60- I'm wondering if it's placed under the tongue whether that would bypass the stomach or make it easier to mix with the DMSO? |
Of course! The sublingual bypasses the stomach route so solves that problem absolutely! That is the way the sublingual medication works and is used more and more also for certain vitamin adminitration, its the way the pharmacological drugs are administered under the tongue and they diffuse into the blood through tissues under the tongue so definitely bypass the stomach to reach the bloodstream.
Sooo, now... how much would be a good idea to try out to see effects and for how long? |
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Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:45 am |
lol at the science here.
i was overdosing on b3 for 1.5-2 years,gave me terrible stomach acid and the resulting dryness.
it just makes the body go in panic,and the noob scientist call this effect ''the niacin flush''.
topically it forces the blood to defend against entering inside just like chilli does which btw contains the highest amounts of niacin in nutrition.
so whatever benefits come from the forced circulation in the treatment area.
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We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:23 pm |
Hi Panoslydios, glad you're 'lol' here. 
If you've read the whole post it happens to be more about NAD than B3.
Thanks for your input on B3, and about chilli and the B3, I can add here cayenne pepper to be the best I know of. I long time ago down-loaded a free PDF version of a book about Cayenne Pepper full of great advice of how to use it for health.
If you know something more than what Tiptoe has published about NAD or how to deliver vitamins or drugs to bloodstream bypassing the stomach please share.
TIA. |
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Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:04 pm |
| panoslydios wrote: |
lol at the science here.
i was overdosing on b3 for 1.5-2 years,gave me terrible stomach acid and the resulting dryness.
it just makes the body go in panic,and the noob scientist call this effect ''the niacin flush |
Reading your post again, so:
Why were you "overdosing"? For 1.5-2 years? If that gave you terrible stomach acid why did you go on for so long? That makes no sense at all.
What do you mean by "the resulting dryness", where?
Maybe this should be a separate post only on Niacin/Niacinamide/B3? |
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