Am I too young to use Lactic Acid peels biweekly?
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Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:52 am

Im 18
I was wondering
But i feel if all it is doin is exfoliating your outer skin then what is wrong.
Also, if i dont do them on top of each other and damage new skin and ALWAYS wear sun screen I should be fine right?

free skin care · Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:49 am

Hi gfb! Without knowing more about your skintype, the only thing I can concur with is the necessity to use sun protection on a daily basis. Can you give us a little more information?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:46 pm

Im African american but i have light brown skin (think beyonce but a little lighter)
I have acneic skin enlarged pores, acne scarring, and uneven skin tone

free skin care · Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:19 pm

ghetofabbabi07 wrote:

Im African american but i have light brown skin (think beyonce but a little lighter)
I have acneic skin enlarged pores, acne scarring, and uneven skin tone

I don't think lactic acid is the peel for you. It is highly recommended for mature skin. Please be very careful with peels. I suggest that you start off with a product that will exfoliate nicely but safe to use. Jan Marini makes a nice glycolic line. Pure Skin Formulation has a peel you might consider. Good luck.

Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:00 am

Oh okay
thank you for that advice
ive never heard that lactic was for more mature
I was thinkin of a doin Julies TCA Complex...do you think that is okay?

free skin care · Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:20 am

ghetofabbabi07 wrote:

Oh okay
thank you for that advice
ive never heard that lactic was for more mature
I was thinkin of a doin Julies TCA Complex...do you think that is okay?

I am not familiar with TCA Complex. We will wait and see what other forum members suggest. Wink

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:13 am

thanks alot
well do you think i can use any peels? I have used the Green Apple Peel and the PSF Pumpkin Peel and they are okay but I want something that will really take care of my pigmentation and pores and such.
but thank you for your reply Very Happy

free skin care · Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:49 am

HI Winnie..

Do you know what % of glycolic acid is in Jan Marini's facial lotions and creams??

thanks

free skin care · Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:27 am

Once bi week. I think it should be fine.

free skin care · Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:44 pm

Hello Gheto - Lactic Acid occurs naturally in the skin and is one of the safest acids to use IF you begin to use it in concentrations at or under 10% with a pH (acidity) level between 3.5% to 4%. I would be VERY careful about trying any AHA solutions over 10% and with a pH level below 3.5%, as stronger acids with lower pH levels come with potential dangers that you should be aware of. First, you don't want to mess around with anything that can burn or scar your face, and AHA/TCA Peels CAN and WILL cause scarring if they are used incorrectly. There are several members here who have had HORRIBLE experiences with TCA peels and continue to deal with the scars as an aftermath, so you must know exactly what you are doing before you attempt to use TCA Peels or acids that are stronger than 10%. Second, everyone reacts differently to stronger AHA/BHA acids as our skin types are all unique. This is why you cannot assume that any given product (acid/peel) is suitable for your skin type or your skin issues just because someone else used it with success. I have terrible (read painful) reactions to glycolic acid (specifically the synthetic version), yet am perfectly fine with lactic acid regardless of concentration. My advice is to ALWAYS test an area of your skin before you apply a specific acid everywhere. The other big concern is sun exposure. Once you start to regularly use a AHA product, you MUST use sunscreen every day afterwards. The stronger AHA's products (ie., the 40%-70% peels), will create even more skin sensitivity to the sun, sometimes up to 50% more (which is huge!). So you must be careful and adher to strict sunscreen application every day or else you run the risk of damaging your skin with UV exposure, instead of renewing it.

There are five types of AHA's, all derived from natural or synthetic sources. Citric from citrus fruits, Tartaric from grapes, Malic from apples, Lactic from milk, and Glycolic from sugarcane. Here is a list of typical AHA's commonly used in peels as well as cleansers, toners, moisturizers, masks, age-spot removers, and other preparations.

Types of AHA's:

glycolic acid (the most popular AHA)
lactic acid
malic acid
citric acid
glycolic acid + ammonium glycolate
alpha-hydroxyethanoic acid + ammonium alpha-hydroxyethanoate
alpha-hydroxyoctanoic acid
alpha-hydroxycaprylic acid
hydroxycaprylic acid
mixed fruit acid
tri-alpha hydroxy fruit acids
triple fruit acid
sugar cane extract
alpha hydroxy and botanical complex

BHA's include:
Salicylic acid

You are right on track when you say that AHA's have the most pronounced effect on the surface of your skin, whereas BHA's penetrate deeper and effect the dermal layer below the skin's surface. AHA's also become effective at concentrations around 7% to 8% with a pH of 3.5 to 4.0, so these are the levels you want to look for when you buy a AHA product. Many AHA-containing cosmetic products have very little skin renewal effects because the AHA concentrations are too low and the pH level is too high. Skin researchers claim that there is little evidence that AHA concentrations below 5% have beneficial actions on the skin at all, so don't waste your time with AHA concentrations below 5%. If you are in doubt about concentrations and pH levels, call the company who makes the product you're interested in and ask them for this information. If they refuse to tell you, then this is generally an indication that the levels you want are too low, so don't waste your time and money and simply pass them by.

Other things to keep in mind - chemical peels with stronger AHA concentrations (say between 40%-70%) will yield faster results, but skin renewal induced over 3 months with a 70% AHA chemical peel (which may cause scarring) can be duplicated by using a 7% AHA cream over 9 months! Shock

That's right, you can achieve the same results by going slow and steady with a lower AHA concentration and NOT risk damage or scarring by using the stronger acids. At age 18, your skin cells also renew once every 3 weeks - which is phenomenal and a gigantic perk of being a teen! Dancing

By the time you turn 50, on the other hand, your skin cells will renew once every 9 weeks Crying or Very sad

(approximately). So at this stage in your life you can work on the issues of evening out your skin tone and reducing any acne & scarring, etc., with a 7% to 10% AHA product and still achieve the results you want with your skin very quickly thanks to your skin cells turning over so rapidly right now. In fact, your skin cell renewal rate won't slow down until you hit 25 years old, give or take.

I personally really like Juice Beauty's Green Apple Peel and see no problem using it bi-weekly (it is a Hydroxy or AHA/BHA solution at a concentration of 10% with a sufficient pH level). I also really like Skinbio's Hydroxy LacSal Serum and Cream (it's also a AHA/BHA combo with lactic & salicylic acid at a concentration of 10% and a pH level of 4%). The price of this product is very reasonable at $17.95 for 50 ml and it lasts a good long time, even with daily use. There are some other AHA products that are very good and reasonably priced as well, but I cannot mention them here and will instead PM you with the info.

Lastly, other than a effective sunscreen, invest in a good microfiber cleansing cloth to gently exfoliate your skin and clean out your pores. PSF (Pure Skin Formulations) has an excellent deal on a package of 2 for $4 here at EDS. wave

free skin care · Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:09 pm

Excellent information Scotts, you rock! Dancing

free skin care · Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:04 pm

ScotsLass wrote:

The stronger AHA's products (ie., the 40%-70% peels), will create even more skin sensitivity to the sun, sometimes up to 50% more (which is huge!).

I am curious about your comment above. What is the source of your information that stronger AHAs can make the skin up to 50% more sensitive to the sun? And in what specific way are you measuring increased sun sensitivity? Do you mean increasing the chance of sunburn or something else? TIA

Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:17 pm

WOW!!!

ScotsLass, thank you so much for taking all that time to answer with such a detailed answer. THank you....so i was looking forward to a lactic acid peel but I'll take your advice and go slow. I have asked so many questions about peels on this site but no one seems to really answer(there are exceptions).
So I have a myriad of acidic products such as the Juice Beauty peel, NuCelle 10% Mandelic Kit, and Alpha Hydroxy 12% Souffle. So this LacSal that you recommended, you think I should use it morning and night correct?
Oh i made a wonderful discovery this week. I got a Skinmedica sample of their retinol complex and i LOVE!!!!!! it...omg it made my skin SOOO smooth and bright and nice and I have only used it 3 nights in a row...my sample is running out so I have to buy the full size. Any thoughts on it ScotsLass?

Yea I have a microfiber cloth its great. I also have epidermx II and I have been using it too much I think because I just want to get rid of all these acne scars lol my skin has definately improved...but can you tell me how much I should be using it?

Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:37 am

bump

free skin care · Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:42 pm

my opinion is that if you regularly use any type of exfoliator (chemical or physical or retinol/retin-a type products), you should always try to avoid the sun even if you're wearing the best sunscreen.

free skin care · Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:42 pm

athena123 wrote:

Excellent information Scotts, you rock! Dancing

Thanks so much, Athena!

I truly hope the information helps others make informed decisions when it comes to buying and using AHA/BHA products.

free skin care · Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:20 pm

h.kitty wrote:

ScotsLass wrote:

The stronger AHA's products (ie., the 40%-70% peels), will create even more skin sensitivity to the sun, sometimes up to 50% more (which is huge!).

I am curious about your comment above. What is the source of your information that stronger AHAs can make the skin up to 50% more sensitive to the sun? And in what specific way are you measuring increased sun sensitivity? Do you mean increasing the chance of sunburn or something else? TIA

Hi h.kitty - I sourced my information from Dr. Loren Pickart's Skinbio website -www.skinbio.com.

Dr. Loren Pickart wrote:

Safety of Hydroxy Acids and Cautions - AHAs increase sun sensitivity by 13% on average but in some persons by as much as 50%.

His website contains extensive information about AHA & BHA's, which I have found extremely useful. I am also referring to sunburns and sun damage when I mention increased sun sensitivity after regular use of AHA's. With the stronger acids most people experience deeper levels of skin exfoliation, which in turn makes their newly exposed 'fresh skin' that much more susceptible to the sun. The quote above from the Skinbio site indicates increased sun sensitivity after using AHA's "by 13% on average but in some persons by as much as 50%". This can and often happens regardless of the strength of AHA you are using. In 2006 I was using a lot of Juice Beauty products that contained various concentrations of AHA/BHA's between 7%-10% and I experienced sun sensitivity that I never had before. My skin would turn red very, very quickly and burn if I didn't wear a sunscreen that contained a SPF of 30 and higher anytime I was outside and in the direct sun for longer than 10 minutes. It only stands to reason that you should be extra careful after you use the stronger AHA acids as your sun sensitivity and potential for burning quickly when outdoors may increase substantially. HTH's....

free skin care · Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:19 pm

Thanks ScotsLass!

I agree that using AHAs increases sun sensitivity but I am always trying to "quantify" how much it does so. When I saw your quote which mentioned percentages it really caught my attention. Even though I like to verify any of Dr. Pickart's claims with other sources of information it is at least something that I can research more. Thanks again! Smile

HK

free skin care · Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:10 am

ghetofabbabi07 wrote:

WOW!!!

ScotsLass, thank you so much for taking all that time to answer with such a detailed answer. THank you....so i was looking forward to a lactic acid peel but I'll take your advice and go slow. I have asked so many questions about peels on this site but no one seems to really answer(there are exceptions).
So I have a myriad of acidic products such as the Juice Beauty peel, NuCelle 10% Mandelic Kit, and Alpha Hydroxy 12% Souffle. So this LacSal that you recommended, you think I should use it morning and night correct?
Oh i made a wonderful discovery this week. I got a Skinmedica sample of their retinol complex and i LOVE!!!!!! it...omg it made my skin SOOO smooth and bright and nice and I have only used it 3 nights in a row...my sample is running out so I have to buy the full size. Any thoughts on it ScotsLass?

Yea I have a microfiber cloth its great. I also have epidermx II and I have been using it too much I think because I just want to get rid of all these acne scars lol my skin has definately improved...but can you tell me how much I should be using it?

Hey ghetofabbabi07 - Just wanted to give you a heads up that I have more to share with you, but am in the process of catching up with matters in real life after an extended weekend out of town. I will be back to answer your questions later today, so we'll talk again soon! wave

free skin care · Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:04 pm

Hi Ghetofabbabi - I really like Skinbio's LacSal Serum & Cream, which are technically hydroxy products because they are comprised of Lactic Acid (8.5%) & Salicylic Acid (1.5%). As a leave-on product I find it gentle enough to use all over my face, including the eye area, yet strong enough to provide the exfoliating effects that I'm looking for. As gentle as it is though, I do not suggest you use it twice a day. There is such a thing as over-exfoliating your skin and the side-effects of such can cause dehydration lines (which look like wrinkles Shock

), or excessive dryness to develop (I speak from personal experience on both accounts

). I would use LacSal or any other pure AHA product once a day in the following manner to make sure you receive 100% of it's exfoliating benefits.

To gain the most from any AHA/Hydroxy acid (including LacSal and Juice Beauty's Green Apple Peel), you want to leave it on your skin uninterrupted for 30 minutes. So do not apply anything else to your skin for a full half hour from the moment you apply the AHA/Hydroxy product. This time period is crucial as it allows the AHA to reach it's maximum exfoliating abilities and then return your skin back to a neutral pH level of 5.0. What most people do not realise (myself included until earlier this year) is that AHA's will stop working or become neutralized should you apply anything else to your skin before 30 minutes have passed. So if you can't wait a full 30 minutes once you apply a AHA and only let a few minutes pass before you apply something else to your skin, you have effectively halted the full exfoliating effects of the AHA and will only receive a portion of it's benefits. I am certain this is why so many people have mixed reactions about AHA's and feel they didn't see any significant results from using them. They simply didn't know that there are extra benefits by waiting between product applications.

I know that the directions on the Juice Beauty Green Apple Peel indicate that you should leave it on for 10 minutes (approx), then wash it off. I don't do this and instead leave the mask on a full 30 minutes then wash it off. This product does not cause any 'peeling', so I have no idea why the company markets it as such. The acidity and strength of the hydroxy acids in it also time out after 10 minutes, so there is no harm in leaving it on for a longer period. I do so just to simplify my 30 minute wait between products. If I use the Green Apple Peel as part of my evening routine, I do not use LacSal that night, as over-exfoliation is not necessary and can do more harm than good.

There are many people here who love the Alpha Hydroxy 10% & 12% Souffle, so if the Alpha Hydroxy products are working for you then I say continue to use them. This particular line contains synthetic glycolic acid, which triggered a severe allergic reaction for me, so sadly I cannot use any of these products. As for the Nucelle, I have not used it, so I cannot comment. It seems as if you've really experimented with a number of different AHA/Hydroxy products - to date, which one's do you like the most?

Oh, and I'm not surprised that you've fallen in love with the Skinmedica Complex, but I am surprised that your skin hasn't suffered from any breakout's. Retinol is fantastic at softening and moisturising the skin but can trigger a lot of excess oil to develop, especially for teenage skin and those who tend to be acneic. Once you order a full-size of the Skinmedica Complex, you might want to apply it every other day just to make sure your skin doesn't become too oily and start to break-out.

HTH's and that I've answered some of your questions. Smile

free skin care · Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:12 pm

I have just received my bottle of LacSal in the post, so tonight i start using it! Very excited.

Does anyone know - can I use Vitamin C products at the same time as LacSal?

For my evening routine I was going to do LacSal, wait 30 mins, then ISC Super Serum (vitamin C), and Skin Actives "let's make collagen" serum which also has a little C along with other actives to encourage collagen production such as peptides.

Morning would be GHK copper serum, then ISC active serum and firming complex.

Any advice or comments very welcome!!

free skin care · Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:26 pm

Hi Chickenlittle - Hope you really like the LacSal - did you order the serum or the cream (and what is your skin type?). Both LacSal and Vitamin C have pH levels that cause exfoliation of your skin, so I personally think it would be over-kill to use both together. I use my Vitamin C serum in the AM, wait 30 minutes as it follows the same principles as AHA's, then apply my other serums, moisturizers, and SS. I then use LacSal in the evening, wait 30 minutes, then apply Super-GHK and my night serums & creams. The reason you want to use a AHA right before the Super-GHK is it will remove proteins that build up on the skin as well as dead skin cells that prevent the GHK from penetrating deeper. I would also reverse your entire routine and use the Vitamin C products in the AM as they will provide extra photo-damage protection from the environment and the sun, and the LacSal/GHK at night. You can't receive the same level of benefits from Vitamin C serums while you're sleeping. Wink

free skin care · Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:38 pm

Ahh, good advice, thank you Scottslass! I find it confusing looking at the skinbio website as so many different regimes are advised. They told me in an email to use the copper products in the AM as a protection from make up, but i don't think that's critical.

I got the serum - my skin type is normal but prone to acne/blackheads on T-zone.

So I could do:
AM
ISC Super, wait 30 mins
"let's make collagen"
DMAE tightening gel from skinbio - is it OK to use it here with the Vitamin C?
light moisturiser - currently using marine nutrient serum from skinactives

PM
LacSal, wait 30 mins
GHK
ISC Active serum
ISC Firming Complex

I like the idea of this routine, as I have heard that collagen regenerates most at night, so doing the copper at night might work with this.

I'm planning on using this bottle of GHK then progressing to CP serum.

PS got a sample of the BND from skinbio - smells like horse manure!! Laughing

free skin care · Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:17 pm

This routine looks good to me, Chickenlittle. Skinbio does not promote the need to use topical Vitamin C, so their thoughts about incorporating it into your routinue are not necessarily the most advantagous. The one thing they will tell you is that you should have a 12 hour window between the application of your Vitamin C serum and any copper peptide product (as one negates the effects of the other). I tend to whip off my makeup as soon as I can in the evenings in order to apply the LacSal for 30 minutes, followed by the GHK. The earlier I am able to remove my make-up, the more chances I have at establishing 12 hours between the GHK and my morning application of Vitamin C.

I see nothing wrong with applying the DMAE Gel 30 minutes after the Vit-C serum, so again, I think this routine looks really good. I, too, have read that collagen regenerates more at night, so using a CP before bed makes the most sense to me. As for using the GHK before your make-up, I know that Skinbio's theory is that GHK will help repair the damage that can be caused by metals in make-up. I have recently started to experiment with GHK in the AM instead of my Vit-C serum to see how I like it under make-up. It's very nice and has me wondering if I should trade-in my Vit-C for a month and use CP's twice a day just to see what happens. I take between 2 to 5 grams of Vitamin C internally every day (along with 5 grams of MSM), so other than the missed photo-protection element of the topical Vit-C, I wonder if I can achieve additional skin firming results with some extra copper peptide action - ah, the dilemma's we encounter when we start to use all of these different 'actives' - LOL!

free skin care · Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:50 pm

thanks a lot for helping me out on this one, I think my routine is looking much better now. I just did the evening one! I guess I have to wait many weeks before I can expect any results from the GHK.

I know what you mean about the actives - it's easy to get addicted to adding layer after layer, that what's happening for me! I'm narked I can't use Let's Make Collagen twice a day any more, my skin seemed to really like it. I like using seakelp bioferment as a final layer too, i'm not wearing much make up at the moment so I don't have to worry about balling up.

Re. your GHK twice a day - I have heard of people progressing to twice a day. But have you thought of moving to the second generation copper like CP serum and moving up through the strengths?

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