Question about how skin works
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free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:20 pm

I know. An odd title. But I am perplexed.

(this is long. Please bear with me. I thought I knew a lot about skin, but now I'm confused.)

I've been using TCA for spot treatment on some old acne scars, with an overall 12% TCA home peel every month or so. Never enough to molt my face or anything. I started by using TCA at 20% on some emrging zits, which seemed to stop them in their tracks. That spot will flake off a couple of days later, and heal nicely. I use copper peptides, too -- which definitely help to "remodel" my skin.

A few times, I have unearthed what an aesthetician friend calls "pimple seeds." These are hard nuggeta of old sebum that started out as clogged pores YEARS ago, and I probably treated them with BP, which is awful for me -- it just FREEZES my clogged pore into a semi-permanent structure.

I thought I'd do the TCA/copper peptides for a year and hopefully unearth all the pimple seeds from long ago and have much smoother and decongested skin. I have a few scarred rough patches where I could feel seeds that I wanted to work on.

Is this graphic enough for you? Or metaphorical enough for you? Or graphically metaphorical for you? Laughing

I've noticed lately an odd shadowed line appearing right on the apple of my right cheek. Someone at work even mentioned this week. She said it looked like I'd been cut there. It's a uniform long indention, only visible in certain lights (I hope).

I gasped when I finally realized this morning it is an old, old scar. Absolutely. From when I was about ll, and tried too hard to scrub bubble gum off my face. (My first over-enthusiastic attempt at exfoliation.) But I had this exact same scar there, with the tiny curve at one end, for over a year before it faded.

What is happening? IS this damage from deep down? What about all the new skin I'm supposed to have produced since then? ARE these pimple seeds that are finally showing up at sites that never completely healed from pimples I remember battling years ago for weeks at a time?

If I keep up with the remodeling and TCA, will I ultimately get my baby skin? How deep do scars go and how long can "objects" stay buried in there?

I should add I have thick sebaceous dehydrated skin. And for decade battled my excess sebum with harsh, drying products before I learned to just keep the oil flowing.

Any thoughts?

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:27 pm

Interesting question - I've marked this topic to be watched to see how this develops. I wonder if it's because the old scar healed into a hard ridge that stayed under the upper level of your skin and only now coming to the surface after all the remodeling/exfoliants that have been used, but that's just a stupid theory I'm sure.

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:34 pm

I admit, I'm totally perplexed. I'd think I was imagining the whole thing, if these seed sites and scar weren't so totally familiar. I can even tell you what was happening in my life when I was battling that specific pimple -- sometimes for months. (Just ravaging my skin, of course, I know now, throwing firebombs of terror onto it.) Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:52 pm

For the life of me, I can't remember where I saw this referenced. It was either here in a CP thread or on the Skinbio site. I think I remember this situation being mentioned as part of the skin remodeling process. I don't have time now to search but I'm hoping someone else will remember what I'm talking about.

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:00 pm

Oooooh! A CLUE! Surprised

Anyone?

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:05 pm

Bluesheart you are correct - it was Scalawaggirl's thread labeled 'Skin remodeling with CP's' if you checkout that thread (it is very long) go to about March 28, 2007 and that is where the discussion begins about non-existent scars and old scars re-surfacing during the skin remodeling process.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=16585&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=copper+peptides&start=150

If I recall correctly, this thread had a lot of interesting information about peels, exfoliants, copper peptides, etc. It was a great discussion.

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:15 pm

Hmmm. Thanks for that link. I have started reading that thread several times in the past, and always gave up on page, oh, seven. Laughing

Interesting. So I should continue this trek, then? I do feel like I have holes and gullies in my face. Not what I was going for. Crying or Very sad

Does anyone have any info that is not anecdotal? Nothing against Scallawag (MIA and RIP -- and LOL), but I think her posts are part speculation -- based on her experience, of course. Which is a group of words meaning: anecdotal.

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:41 pm

Sidda wrote:

Hmmm. Thanks for that link. I have started reading that thread several times in the past, and always gave up on page, oh, seven. Laughing

Interesting. So I should continue this trek, then? I do feel like I have holes and gullies in my face. Not what I was going for. Crying or Very sad

Does anyone have any info that is not anecdotal? Nothing against Scallawag (MIA and RIP -- and LOL), but I think her posts are part speculation -- based on her experience, of course. Which is a group of words meaning: anecdotal.

I realize it's real easy for me to jump in since I'm not the one with a old scar resurfacing on my face but I have to admit this is quite fascinating. Rewinding the time. I say, you've come this far, might as well see it through. How many of us can actually say we're reversing time with our faces? Sidda, this post more than any other has made me want to restart CP's. Let us know.

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:49 pm

I remember reading about this and I found this simple illustration atwww.scar-reduction.com

At least it is not anecdotal... Laughing

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:24 pm

In Reading this thread I had the same reaction as BluesHeart, maybe I should restart CP... The reason I stopped using it is that after 6 or 7 months I didn't notice any improvement in skin texture or remodeling but I felt I was developing a peach fuzz. I know other users have reported increased facial hair.
Sidda, do you see any additional facial hair?

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:41 pm

THANKS, Cadia -- that's exactly what I was wondering. Great illustration I THOUGHT that was what was happening, but then, when it happens to YOU, it's not easy to stomach. Vanity, thy name is... Sidda. Rolling Eyes

Bellezza, no facial hair. I'm not a very hairy person, anyway, but no, that's not a side effect I've personally seen.

I must be working through the scarred skin of my adolescence now. Whew, what a nightmare. I've been using CPs for years, but religiously, once or twice a day, for three months. There's definitely a pattern of uneven texture being, um, planed away. Sometimes I wipe a spot that has healed with a washcloth, to get a final tiny scab off -- and a big crater appears right next to it. All in trouble areas, though, where I have fought zits all my life. No new breakouts, just these old gullies. Jeepers. I'm thinking I still have a long way to go, too.

I'll keep you posted. I was just out running errands and felt so ugly, I had to come home. I stood in front of the mirror, hating my skin. Then my hair. Then my weight. And yet someone last week said I looked "amazing." Me: (startled) I DO?! WHY?? LOL

I am signing up for a dance class now. These dips in spirit are often a belief in our own helplessness. Best remedy is to take some action. And keep smiling -- then other folks might not notice my craters so much. Argh.

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:59 pm

wow I guess my "stupid theory" was kind of close, but Cadia's picture was much better, thank you! Smile

I planned to start CP's this year because I have some old scars and pits to deal with now that the breakouts are done and I didn't want to read Scallygirl's superlong thread but I can see that I'll need to. Thanks for bringing this up Sidda, at least I'll have some idea what to expect.

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:01 pm

Isn't it funny how we see our 'issues' more than anyone else? I'm an exercise teacher and know the power of taking charge of you. Good luck with the dance class and enjoy it.

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:49 pm

Athena -- Do it do it do it! And keep us posted.

I have one spot on my cheekbone that used to have zits all the time. (Dirty pillowcases, I now know.) (I was such an idiot. HOWEVER. I DID Stay Out Of The Sun. Even back when sun was recommended for acne.) I keep thinking it has healed, and then a crater, like, in the next PORE, comes up. I was going to be all gentle with it and try to cover it up, But I hate cakey concealer. So, SO lame. I decdied, instead, to apply TCA 20% to it. It frosted right away. I have a special event next week, and will probably be molting then. Rolling Eyes

But I just couldn't take it anymore.

Blues -- thanks. I follwed through. It will not be easy to head for the dance studio at 8:30 on Thursday nights, but I'll do it. Pole dancing. Or, as I like to call it (having done it before) "Tai Chi with beaver shots." Wink

By summer, I'll be slimmer and have clearer skin. I'll paste a piece of paper over the mirror till then. (I actually used to do that, when I couldn't keep my hands off my face. The other thing, besides "no sun" I did right.)

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:25 pm

Wow, this is so interesting. I'm sort of hesitant about actives until I have a good reason to learn about them, and copper peptides are something I've never bothered to research. But your results make me want to research, read Scally's thread and at least start thinking about giving this a try.

I know exactly what you mean about the "seeds" from old blemishes -- I'm sure my skin is chock-full of that thanks to my teenage BP-loving years. I've been seeing some odd "seed" stuff using Retin-A recently, and I was kind of frustrated and concerned because I kept thinking the Retin-A was supposed to be CLEARING my pores, not clogging them! Now I know it's probably just helping the old clogs to surface. At least I hope so!

I'm bookmarking this thread, too. Do tell us how it goes! And good luck with the dance class -- I'm struggling with the motivation to take charge and get my butt to the gym, too. Here's to cheering you on!

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:37 pm

Thanks.

Now here's another question -- what is the best deal on CP's? I could surf and research this all, yes, but mayhaps someone watching this thread has already done that for all of us.

I have the Skin Bio watery serum, and the Janson-Beckett Alpha Derma C & E. It is the addition of the latter, that definitely moved things into high gear. I just didn't use the serum as often, because it felt drying and I am much more careful about that now. The Alpha Derm I also can wear during the day under makeup, etc. Not so, the CP serum.

Would upping the CP with % or format make me uglier shorter? (Brilliant writing, there, Sidda. Brrrrrrilliant. Rolling Eyes

) I don't need to add exfoliating acids, I'm sure I have that covered with the TCA.

What's the most effective CP w/out acids with the best value? Do we know?

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:44 pm

VERY interesting, that zippy little diagram explained a great deal regarding what is occuring on my face. I think the Copper peptides sound fantastic, I am all over that, thanks to Winnie for kindly providing me with inportant info!!

free skin care · Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:53 pm

So of course I immediately went and research to answer my own question. Cuper Cop is what I need (I'm using the regular) and the cream with lavender oil and high retinol, I think.

And from EDS. No surprise, there. Cheaper than anywhere, especially with a discount. Better than eBay, even.

Does ANYone use the Super Cop 2x for anything other than spot treatment? I wonder because that tempts me to put on these specific scars. . .

I see a lot in another thread about CPs and Vit C (again). Easy-peasy. Do what works for you.

Laughing

free skin care · Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:33 am

Wow that was interesting, the picture was quite fascinating. I mean it totally makes sense. I have been using Retin A, and noticed that some of my older acne scars are more visible. I think they are more red, not so much brown. It looks like they are coming up to the surface and fading.

free skin care · Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:55 pm

Yes, I have a whole CROP of scars and seeds on the apple of my cheek. I thought I was through with the "surfacing", then two more seed bumps appeared yesterday. I really had to give myself a pep talk. I could stop the treatment and heal, or keep going and purge for god knows how long. Through summer? Another year? When you've been burying pimple seeds and scars as long as I have, it's a real dilemma. And when it keeps me from going out or makes me self-concious when I talk to people, it really sucks.

But I remembered there is a girl at work who has absolutely horrid skin -- actually there are a couple of regular customers (female), too, who have real pustular acne and raw wounds on their faces. It IS the first thing I notice. But do I blame them for it? Do I not like them or respect them for it? No. I might even like and respect them even more, since I know what it's like.

And, yes, they all have boyfriends, or are married with children.

So I'll harvesst this crop of seeds and scars and see where I am, then.

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