Anti-Aging LightStim
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

free skin care · Sat May 16, 2009 12:04 pm

Wow, you guys are burnin up the wires!... Laughing

I'll cover all the concerns, as best I can, here;

- Device ... Personally I love the lightness of the medical grade material because it's sturdy, and comfy to use for the entire hour that I treat.. As for a cap, no thanks! The closer the diodes are to the skin, the better it works. As for it leaving marks, it doesn't on me anymore, but back in the days when it did, they were gone within an hour. (Also keep in mind it's the fluids in your tissue, that is leaving the depressions.. Once that lymphatic drainage kicks in, and the fluid drains, you will not see that.) I do manual lymphatic drainage every couple of days, and that works wonders also!

- Cleaning ... If you use pre treatment serums, they should be applied 30 minutes prior, and fully absorbed before you use the LED.. As long as that is the case, nothing will get on the LED... For sanitary reasons, it is good to just swab the tips, with a Q-tip dampened with alcohol when you're finished, and your device is unplugged and off.

- Darkening Skin ... That never happened to me, so I'm not sure what could be the cause.. In my experience, my sun damaged neck and chest just got paler and paler. Perhaps the treatment is just bringing the damage to the surface, and continued treatments will rid you of it..(Kind of like how CP's work!) Also evaluate topicals used, to be sure that isn't interfering somehow. (And treat on just bare, cleansed skin, if you aren't absolutely certain, that your *treatment* serum isn't occlusive.)

- Treatment Times + Frequency ... In my humble opinion I believe that 3 minutes per spot, once per day, 5 days per week for 6 weeks will realize the best results. Thereafter, listen to your skin.. Less than stellar results, keep doing 5 times per week, great results, go to 3 or 4 times per week.

Now what I want to say is just my opinion, and goes against all you have probably heard that states "you can use it more than once a day if you want".... I don't agree, and here's why.. Just like exercising works a muscle, and that muscle than need a day of rest in between to grow and respond, I believe collagen building also should take a similar course.. I believe that too much stimulus in short periods of time to the fibroblast cells, could be counter-productive, and produce collagen digesting enzymes, and also not let the collagen and elastin flourish to it's full potential... Rather than overkill, I think it's best do a thorough and lengthy treatment, which will really energize those fibroblast cells, which will excite and stimulate the mitochondria, into producing the ATP that is necessary to increase the collagen and elastin.. (To summarize all this mumbo jumbo, use the LED 5 X per week for the first 6 weeks, with the ultimate goal being every other day.. Laughing

Sorry, I'm sure that was much more than you cared to know, but I feel that some of you think more is better, and will get me there quicker.. IT WON'T!

LED's are great, no doubt about it.. I also feel that the AALS is the best one for home use at this time. I just want to repeat though, what I have been saying throughout this thread, it's a slow cumulative process, that will give you amazing positive changes to your skin.. Yes, you will see and feel subtle improvements from the get-go. Yes, your skin will feel like silk in the 1st few treatments. Yes, it will *help* reduce fine lines, age spots, sun damage + alligator skin.. No, it will not make scars disappear, BUT, if you treat a 'new' minor burn quickly and often, it will not leave a scar!... And finally, Yes, by the 6th month of use you will notice the new collagen and elastin, by all of a sudden seeing that the hollows, folds, and fine lines have all filled in.. (You will miss this without the before pictures, for the simple reason you are going to look better and better everyday, so you'll be spoiled.. Take the pictures, I promise you will be glad.)

Okay, I'm sorry about the book.. I just really feel it's important to share what I have learned about this subject through not only extensive research, but by being a LS user these last 20 months.

On another note, for those who followed my neck and lower face issues with STOP, I am all back to normal now except for a small jowl/pouch on each side of my chin.. I'm happy to report that my neck looks outstanding (in fact tighter than it was 5 years ago)..

I give 25% of the improvement to the LED, and 75% credit goes to the small face Vaculifter, which I used every other day on my neck for about a month.

Cheer's Kiddie's.. Very Happy

free skin care · Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:01 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

Alley wrote:

Well ladies update time again - I have been using the AALS since the last week in February. The first 90 days I used it basically 5-6 times a week and now I am used at least 3 a week sometimes more. 90% of the time I use Kassy AHA pre-treatment serum which I believe is equally responsible for the great results.

The results are phenomenal!!! It is to the point that I don't even have to look back at the before pics to see the improvement. A girlfriend I hadn't seen in about 6 weeks commented last week that I have zero visible crows feet - where did they go??? Laughing

The beginnings of what were going to be serious jowls at the corners of my mouth are greatly reduced; hopefully in six months they will be completely gone.

If you are sitting on the fence on this purchase jump off and get going!!!! It isn't cheap but worth every dime!

Yay Alley Cat.. I'm thinking back to a few months ago, and how upset you were about things, and all the emails, pictures, etc.. we shared. I'm so happy the LED and DIY concoctions have done
*exactly what I told you they would*... Laughing

It's posts like yours, and the personal contact from so many of you, that really keep me motivated to share what I've learned. It makes it much easier to ignore the backstabbers, phonies and nay sayers, who really haven't got a clue what I'm all about.. Laughing

(They sure do read what I write though, and often times copy it elsewhere.. tsk! tsk! .. Laughing

) shhh!

Kassy girl, OMG you are soooo right - I was very upset but thanks to your support, advice and comfort

I stayed the course and feel 200% better, and yes it turned out just like you said. Embarassed

You have encourage and inspired me to post my results and ideas because your posts (emails and pms) helped me out so much. If one of my posts helps someone out I am paying it forward so to speak.
I would like to publicly thank you for sharing your knowledge, giving your support and encouragement to me over the last couple of months. I made a world difference to me. THANK YOU

free skin care · Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:28 pm

Gotta make this snappy, so will try to answer a few questions.

- Apply C serum 45 minutes to 1 hour pre treatment.. If you make your own, and have more than 1% vitamin E oil in there, just rinse your face with plain warm water, and a quick exfoliation with a microfiber cloth.. (The 1 hour is more than enough time for the C to have absorbed, which can't be washed off, and then you'll just get the remainder of oil off.) Then just do your LED treatment.

- For those using Skinceuticals, do the same thing.. Apply 1 hour prior, then rinse off the oil and silicony stuff.

- Gumgirl; be sure to get every speck of sunscreen off you, because the light will not penetrate all those chemicals.. Use a good cleanser, and use a buffing pad, face brush or preferably a microfiber cloth, to really get every trace of chemicals and dead cells off.

Just a generalization here, but I'd like to remind everyone that an LED is not the equivalent of surgery, so when looking in the mirror for *obvious* signs of what it's doing, please keep that in mind, and also remember that the results are cumulative, and get better as time goes by..

For me, I'm happy to see my 59 year old skin looking prettier every day, but most importantly, I have without a doubt, slowed the dreaded aging process to a crawl.. Subtle, cumulative improvements make me a very happy woman indeed.. Will I ever look 25 again? Of course not, nor would I want to.. But I'm sure as heck happy when people take me for 40.. Laughing

Or better still, assume I'm sonny boys wife, rather than Mama Bear.. Laughing

20 months of regular use have resulted in firmer, clearer, thicker, softer skin, with smaller pores, no visible caps and a complete reversal of fairly bad sun damage I had since my teens on my neck and chest.. I'll tell you with all honesty, that my skin is honestly *beautiful* these days, and has never looked prettier in my life. It's hard for me to come out with that, and I don't mean it to sound conceited because I am truly my own worst critic, and trust me, from the boobs down leaves plenty to be desired.. Rolling Eyes

The only other thing I'd add is that LED treatments are an ongoing committment, and yep they are time consuming (especially the first couple of months. Will they turn a frog into a prince(ss), or course not... But they will surely slow the hands of time down to a crawl, and give you the prettiest skin you have ever enjoyed... The kind that makes you want to keep touching it.. Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:21 pm

Bira you can put other products on after the Retin A but I would wait at least 20 minutes so the Retin has a chance to sink in. They warn against using certain products because they will cause irritation. Retin A can be very irritating alone and adding acids (AHA, L-AA) will increase that irritation.
I personally use Vit C products in the morning and my Vit A only at night.

free skin care · Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:08 pm

I have had peels and was told to stop using the retin a least 3 days preferably 5 before the peel; not to used again until all the "peeling" and redness has gone, again usually 5 days after the peel.
I guess it would depend on how sensitive your skin is. I know if I use home peels I don't put the retin on for a couple of days because it is too much for my skin.
If you want to "boost" your retin you could apply AHA before the retin cream. The strength of the AHA will depend on what your skin can tolerate. There is a thread about this very AHA/Retin discussion but I can't find it right now... sorry

Does that make sense?

free skin care · Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:20 am

I think if you use the aha/bha before the LED and then the retin at night you will be good to go. That is my routine - I made Kassy AHA pre-treatment serum and then every 2nd night I use Afrim.

free skin care · Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:27 pm

Bira, wait 30 minutes or so, to be sure it has absorbed through the skin layers, before using the LED.

free skin care · Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:36 pm

Here is the page link:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=445706#445706

Here is the link for the DYI recipes index. This is a great time saver.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=11902

free skin care · Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:07 pm

calorblind wrote:

lol im only 23, my main prob is just my skin sag due to 30kgs weight loss before, and pores, and acne scars. we'll see how it works (def take photos!)

I wish you would have posted in this thread *before* you ordered.. LED's will help with sag and enlarged pores, but it won't erase acne scars.. If you have redness, it will help reduce the inflammation, but a scar is a scar, and you need more than the LED alone to tackle that..

Also keep in mind that the more sag you have, the more skin cycles it will take to build collagen enough, to make a noticeable difference.

I wish I new you were 23 and these were your issues before you bought, because I'm not sure an LED was the best choice for you... Crying or Very sad

(See why that signature line is so important!)

Personally, I think a better choice for you would have been Rita's ultrasound/galvanic device ($135.00),

http://www.prolightaesthetics.com/catalog/item/6603459/6528796.htm

and some killer topicals to focus on tightening and scarring..

free skin care · Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:28 am

tamizami: I just posted this reply on another thread but in addition the AALS has helped with the hormonal acne cysts. It helps shrink them and bring them to the surface for super easy removal.

I purchased the AALS and in combination with a small variety of lightening serums (mostly L'Occitane Immortalle but I just made up a batch of Kassys Pre-Treament 2 weeks ago) there has been a noticable reduction in the number and darkness of my hyperpigmented areas. So much so that my Hubby (who didn't notice when I had a foot of hair cut off) actually commented that he can tell the spots are lighter.

It does take about an hour to do my face and neck, longer for my hands and arms. Depends if I am watching a movie or just regular TV.

For the results I am getting I am thrilled. I am 54 post-surgical menopause (no hormone therapy).

As to the collegen rejuvination. That is harder to evaluate. I am also using AgeLess and have had remarkable results (photos posted on LuLus' Board). So I would say that the results are a combination of product, exfoliation, exercise, and determination no matter which LED is chosen.

free skin care · Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:04 am

tsa1976 welcome to EDS and like Kassy said thank you for posting - this is how we all learn

The one question I have is, did you take "before" pictures? I am soooo glad I did because I was convinced that nothing was happening within the 1st month of using the AALS. Looking back at those pictures I can see all the changes that you miss looking in the mirror everyday.

free skin care · Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:48 pm

Kassy: I appreciate all the help I've received from you and I am very grateful

free skin care · Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:46 am

I have been using the AALS pretty consistently since February . I have no idea if it was/is supposed to help with elasticity but I personally have found a huge improvement. I notice it most when I pull the skin - there seems to be less to pull and it bounces back better.
HTH

free skin care · Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:46 pm

txgirl wrote:

I'm also going to incorporate Facercise, but I was wondering if I should use a retinoid like Retin A? I believe I've read others have use that with the LS. It's suppose to help thicken the dermis layer from what I've heard, so I guess it increases collagen and elastin as well?

Retin-A is pretty much the Gold Standard when it comes to anti-aging - there is really nothing else that has the scientific backing that Retin-A does. Apply it after you have done your Lightstim treatment, not before.

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:22 pm

Alley wrote:

Question for Kassy but I am thinking everyone will benefit. My skin is super dry right now and using the pre-treat is making it worse. I was wondering if I made the AALS pre-treat without the glycolic acid and upped the green tea would that work?

Not Kassy.....but I would definitely cut out the Glycolic Acid. Using the AALS on clean skin is fine, but I would just use the green tea - it's supposed to work well with LEDs to prevent wrinkles.

free skin care · Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:21 am

Hi Pack - I am going to make a suggestion which is controversial on EDS with a few members but you may be interested.......I'd suggest looking into a light massage for your face and eye area using a rosehip oil or argan - some even use olive oil.
It's done wonders for my face and for many of us "older girls". I don't use oil but it's probably a good way to start. This will encourage collagen production and your skin will thicken and be more resilient. It encourages blood flow and will give your face a glow. I'm particularly happy with my eye area - it's not as delicate anymore and is noticeably stronger and firmer. I don't use eyecreams any longer.

I use a prolight red on my face and have not had wrinkles, etc as a result. I am sure your AALS isn't the culprit. Kassy has had good results as have others so I'd hang in there with it.
Is it possible your face is still in a transition phase?

free skin care · Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:23 pm

I just wanted to add a comment on the statement that tea and coffee (which contain caffeine) are diuretics. You may wish to review the article Caffeine ingestion and fluid balance: a review, by Maughan & Griffin (2003) published in the Journal of Human Nutrition & Dietetics.

The analysis concludes that valid studies offer no support for the suggestion that consumption of caffeine-containing beverages as part of a normal lifestyle leads to fluid loss in excess of the volume ingested or is associated with poor hydration status. HTH

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:27 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

I just wanted to add a comment on the statement that tea and coffee (which contain caffeine) are diuretics. You may wish to review the article Caffeine ingestion and fluid balance: a review, by Maughan & Griffin (2003) published in the Journal of Human Nutrition & Dietetics.

The analysis concludes that valid studies offer no support for the suggestion that consumption of caffeine-containing beverages as part of a normal lifestyle leads to fluid loss in excess of the volume ingested or is associated with poor hydration status. HTH

Personally, I am very interested in this subject - mainly because not so much as a sip of water every crosses my lips, I hate cold drinks but drink gallons of tea.

I have also heard and read that the fact that tea is not good for hydration is a myth, and recently came across this information:

Tea and Hydration

Sorting out the Facts
Reinforcing the many potential health benefits of tea consumption, a recent review of black tea research, sponsored by the United Kingdom Tea Council, has gained a great deal of attention over the last few weeks.

The findings, published online in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2006), were reported by various national and international news outlets. Thorough readings of the published findings made it clear that what had been reported in the media were only bits and pieces of the review, a powerful and insightful analysis of more than a decade's worth of data compiled on black tea consumption.

The review's objective was to consider whether the consumption of black tea has a positive or negative impact on health. Despite the potential antioxidant power of black tea and the possibility that it may reduce the risk of coronary heart disease (CHD) and cancer, media reports often imply that tea has adverse effects on; hydration, cognitive function, bone health, dental health and iron status. These implied adverse effects are frequently linked to the caffeine content in tea. This month's newsletter will dispel these myths focusing on the hydration and caffeine data that was reviewed.

Is Tea Dehydrating?
The hydration benefits of drinking tea is one of the most interesting aspects of the data reviewed. The researchers state that tea hydrates the body as effectively as water with the added antioxidant benefits. This is completely contrary to the popular belief that tea is dehydrating due to the caffeine content; a wives' tale often perpetuated in media reports and even by some health care professionals.

So What About Caffeine?
Caffeine, in extremely high doses, can dehydrate the body but even if you brew a cup strong enough to have that effect, which is almost impossible, it wouldn't be palatable. According to the review, even a really super strong cup of tea would have a net gain of fluid. The reviewers went on to suggest that any possible risk related to excess caffeine intake, if that is a concern for you, can be avoided by limiting your tea intake to 8 cups per day.

Dispelling Myths
Dispelling the myth that tea is dehydrating will take time so spread the word and remember you are what you drink. Over the next few months I will continue detailing the review including the criteria and results, dispelling various other myths. Look for those details in upcoming newsletters and on the tea blog.

http://www.teasetc.com/tea/article.asp?ID=52&Name=Tea+and+Hydration

free skin care · Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:17 pm

Hi summer2004. I looked at your protocol prior to using your AALS. If you look at the link I provided to PQ, you will see that the original researcher did NOT include any wait time to dry the skin (prior to or after the green tea "soak" ... for lack of a better term). You may wish to review and/or revise your protocol. It may save you some time. HTH

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:41 am

summer2004 wrote:

Lacy53 wrote:

.....the original researcher did NOT include any wait time to dry the skin (prior to or after the green tea "soak" ......

Hi Lacy,

I did consider it too; so there is no 20- minute wait time in my 2nd treatment.

Thx!

Please summer, let your own common sense tell you not to use an electric appliance on *wet* skin. Also, what good is the green tea (or anything else used for a treatment) going to do you, unless it has penetrated the stratum corneum (at least!) I'd also suggest you might want to take the advice of the folks who actually use an LED, and practice what they preach with good results.

Quite frankly I've totally lost my desire to post, read + share on EDS and prefer instead to keep my new bright ideas + opinions private and among a few *genuine* EDS friends. I am only posting now because 1.) I wouldn't want to see you shock yourself, or short out your LED using it on wet skin and 2.) I couldn't resist the temptation to point out that 'Lacy53', in her zealousness to contradict, and find fault with me every chance she gets, has contradicted herself in the process...

From the Green Tea thread;

Lacy53 wrote:

Please note the following protocol regarding the application of green tea prior to LED exposure:

After 2 months of extreme oxidative stress, green tea-filled cotton pads were placed once per day for 20 minutes onto the skin before treatment with an array of light-emitting diodes ..."

**FOR** 20 minutes, not 20 minutes before. HTH

Lacy53 wrote:

Andrei P. Sommer and Dan Zhu
Crystal Growth & Design, Articles ASAP (As Soon As Publishable)
Publication Date (Web): August 12, 2009 (Communication)
DOI: 10.1021/cg900688g

To compensate for a possibly extensive ROS generation by the intense LED light and subsequent inhibition of cellular processes, we included into our facial rejuvenation program a powerful ROS scavenger: epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) extracted from green tea. ... Here we modified the routine and introduced topical application of green tea (3 g of dry leaf mass per 250 mL of water, brewing temperature 100 °C, cooling time 30 min), applied onto the skin around the corner of the eyes 20 min before irradiating the wrinkled zones according to the protocol. ... Figure 3. Representative photographs show wrinkles subsequent to 2 months of extreme oxidative stress (left) and after 3 months of daily LED treatment (right): initially 2 months of LED only, followed by 1 month of green tea assisted LED. ...

It would appear that the topical solution applied in this case is nothing more than brewed green tea. Also note that there was a 20 minute "wait time" prior to LED exposure.

I'm sure the writer of the study presumed the reader would have enough common sense to allow drying/penetration of the topical.. Let common sense prevail, and don't get so hung up on *studies*

Everybody is always looking for the almighty studies, but only the minority have the ability to interpret + put the good ones into practice... (This is MHO based on the questions/comments that ensue, following a *study* throughout many threads and topics over the past 2 years here at EDS.)

Have fun kiddies, and try to be a little nicer (next time), to the *few* people who are *honestly* trying to share good advice, help you figure out good regimes based on what works, and finally help you actually see and enjoy those positive changes in the mirror... I know how many faces I have helped to change for the better here, because a great deal of you have told me so over and over again, and in so many ways. And thanks again to so many of you for the before + after pictures you shared privately with me, and for all the laughs we had on this *mostly* fun filled skincare journey... As always, I am still a PM or email away for my *friends*.. Very Happy

It's just the dishonesty, envy, phoniness, combative attitude on the forum + behind the scenes B.S. that I'm sick of... (Oh, and be careful of those PM's and the venom that doesn't always remain *private*. Be sure you know who you are trusting around here. Such a shame for grown woman to act like 7th graders.. Rolling Eyes

) Anyhoo, it will be without me (publicly) for now which should make *3* of you very happy camper's.. Laughing

Peace to all ... ♥

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:34 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

Hmmm,
According to the above logic better not blow dry wet hair everyone!

JMHO
DM

This is an exact example of snipping that Kassy is referring to in her above post - it is getting old....

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:48 pm

I would just like to point out to EVERYONE that if we were a group of women, out to lunch, sitting around a table (probably have a few little drinkies) discussing skincare face to face, none of this aggro would be taking place. Everyone would be expressing their opinions and discussing anything and everything. If someone said they saw a study on something and someone else had read another contradictory study it would simply be discussed with great gusto - no-one would start accusing each other or be taking offence at differing opinions.

For some reason, because we are communicating by the written word there's a "sensitivity" factor that comes into play. Dark Moon's post is a perfect example. Alley, if Dark Moon had expressed her opinion (a valid one IMO) over the dinner table, no-one would have taken it as a snipe.

As for the electrical devices and water - I own both a Baby Q and AALS, nowhere in the instructions for either have I seen the necessity to wait 20 mins after applying a serum before doing a treatment. I was under the impression that the LED aided product penetration. Obviously, I'm not slapping the AALS on a soaking wet face, but neither am I waiting 20 mins. Also, we use other electrical devices, such as the Nuface or ultrasound with water.

Kassy, I don't want to see you go off in a huff - but I honestly think that you've become very over-sensitive lately and are taking everything so personally. Surely, it's the difference in opinions and ideas that makes the discussion fun - we can all draw our own conclusions from the advice given.

free skin care · Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:01 am

I also value Kassy's input immensely.

All the wonderful and thoughtful recipes and advice is greatly appreciated. Kassy also has the results to prove her point, unlike many of us struggling to achieve anything close to her results (at least I am). Also, keep in mind that she is a nurse-practitioner and licensed and qualified to see patients, unlike many of us.

I also wanted to caution about "pseudo-scientific" approach. No respectable physician will go to pubmed or webmd or anything else for a scientific study; they might for a quick lookup of drug interactions or anything simple like that. They have their own publications and websites(highly specific, not readable or frequently barely understandable even for physicians specializing in different disciplines). At that level there are pier reviews and all the parameters of the studies examined and true value if any is derived. People usually even know most of the researchers or medical facilities and have a truly educated judgement.

Anyone who ever studied statistics would understand how easy it can be manipulated if needed. For example, with a slightly incorrect assumptions, one can make a study and derive that eating cucumbers leads to death, etc...

While it provides for an interesting reading if one has the time, the importance of many of these studies should not be overemphasized.

HTH

free skin care · Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:36 am

Well said Sigma. I totally agree.

I will miss Kassy terribly if she leaves this board for the reasons stated.

free skin care · Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:14 am

Quote:

Anyhoo, it will be without me (publicly) for now which should make *3* of you very happy camper's..

Kassy -

NO! Don't go. Your posts are wonderful to read and even though I don't post much (I only avg .44/day - LOL), I do come by often to learn, and yours are some of the ones I will search out. I can learn from the back and forth that's been going on here as well, but I can understand your sensitivites. Please don't go.

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.