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rileygirl
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Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:40 am      Reply with quote
Here is something new regarding the Oclipse sunscreen that I did not know about. Wanted to post this here and hopefully FYIguy will come along with more info on this.

"The main and most exciting innovation in the Oclipse sunscreen is the inclusion of natural melanins in the formulation. It is well known that melanin is the skinís natural defense mechanism against UV damage. It is a chromophore and acts to absorb UV light.The melanin used in Oclipse is derived from Sepia officinialis (cuttlefish). The ink gland of the cuttlefish has long been regarded as a convenient model system for the study of melanogenesis. Many studies on the complex interplay of melanogenic enzymes and regulatory factors underscore the many similarities and differences of cuttlefish melanin and human melanin. The scientists behind the ZO skin health line patented a process that converts the cuttlefish melanin to something similar to human melanin."
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Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:48 am      Reply with quote
Nimue wrote:
I was resisting for a while, but I have to say, I am really disturbed that the sunscreen is 85$/oz. That's insane! With such an expensive sunscreen, I can't imagine that users are applying enough of it regularly that it's effective.

We're supposed to be using 1/4 teaspoon of sunscreen just on the face to get the full protection that advertised. I'll be generous and suppose that the 1/4 teaspoon also includes the neck and hands. There are 6 teaspoons in an ounce, 6*4=24, which means that the 1 oz is enough sunscreen for about 3 weeks. And that's in the winter, when we don't have to reapply or cover much more than the face and neck.

As for me, it looks like I go through 2 oz of sunscreen a month (and that's in the winter) so I can't even imagine how the zo eclipse sunscreen can be a viable product.


Hi Nimue,

Lor, yes that's really expensive Shock , but I think sunblock is the product that will have the most effect on the skin long-term, and if it's a really good one I'm glad somebody's formulated it! Like everyone, I've bought so much stuff over the years thinking it could somehow deliver a gorgeous 15-year old skin, and happily bought $100s worth of make-up that my 13 year-old now uses for halloween Laughing

If I was honest with myself I'd cut out a lot of unnecessary expense and pay extra for the thing that will really work, but I'm always seeing things that smell nice or say I'll have perfect skin in 3 weeks, buy them and don't notice any difference after 6 weeks. It's my idea of fun!

Ok I'm going to be disciplined and budget for this sunblock...

Justin/fyi guy, I'm guessing it's broad-spectrum, but can you give an idea of the UVA protection?

LL Cool
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Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:20 am      Reply with quote
Hmm, from the ingredients of the Oclipse sunscreen, the UVA protection would not seem to be too impressive, but perhaps Justin/FYIguy can give some insights as to how the other ingredients might help to enhance the sun protection:

Complete Ingredients/Materials Listing:
Active Ingredients: Titanium Dioxide 10.2%, Zinc Oxide 3.7%Other Ingredients: Cyclopentasiloxane, Cyclotetrasiloxane, Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Dimethicone/VinylDimethicone Crosspolymer, Methyl Methacrylate/Glycol Dimethacrylate Crosspolymer, Melanin, Tribehenin,Calcium Behenate, Sorbitan Isostearate, Myristoyl Pentapeptide-8, Dimethiconol, Alumina, PEG-10Dimethicone, Methicone, Iron Oxides.
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Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:27 am      Reply with quote
mlrox, I am betting it has something to do with this info that I quoted above. But, I am with you and hope FYIguy comes along with more information.

"The main and most exciting innovation in the Oclipse sunscreen is the inclusion of natural melanins in the formulation. It is well known that melanin is the skinís natural defense mechanism against UV damage. It is a chromophore and acts to absorb UV light.The melanin used in Oclipse is derived from Sepia officinialis (cuttlefish). The ink gland of the cuttlefish has long been regarded as a convenient model system for the study of melanogenesis. Many studies on the complex interplay of melanogenic enzymes and regulatory factors underscore the many similarities and differences of cuttlefish melanin and human melanin. The scientists behind the ZO skin health line patented a process that converts the cuttlefish melanin to something similar to human melanin."
m1rox
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Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:23 pm      Reply with quote
That is probably one of the "secret ingredients" of the Oclipse sunscreen. It would be interesting if they could point us to some studies that demonstrate this point. I wonder how it works if it's not blackish in colour like cuttlefish ink and human melanin?

And would the vegan members amongst us avoid this product because it contains "altered" cuttlefish melanin?
Camelia
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Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:19 pm      Reply with quote
Jom,

Thank you very much for copying the ingredients in the Prenna Jones glycolic product. That's very helpful.

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FYIguy
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Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:49 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone,

Thank you for all the questions on Oclipse Sunscreen + Primer SPF 30.

Iíve asked for a conference call with a mentor of mine who was one of the lead scientists on the melanin technology initiative; schedule wise it will likely be either this afternoon or tomorrow morning early. Once I have the additional information I need to answer all your questions, I will post it on EDS. I anticipate this will be no later than tomorrow afternoon.

My mentor holds twelve US patents, was instrumental in the development of new products in the Clearasil, Oil of Olay, and Pantene lines, and is a an expert in controlled release topical delivery systems in prescription, OTC, and cosmetic areas. He has played a significant part in emerging technologies in the personal care marketplace for over 30 years and has been a Director / VP of R&D for two companies in the top half of the Fortune 50.

Heís not always the easiest person to reach, but such a pleasure to speak with. Iím sure after he and I talk I will have all the details I need to answer your questions fully.


Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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MsJill
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Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:50 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
MsJill wrote:
Like queenbee I am struggling w/ the under eye area as well and am looking for a solution (I know I already asked for this help but I haven't heard anything back besides maybe I need to wait longer for results but it's been 2 months now). I have been putting the Radical Night repair in that area w/out irritation (and the ZO eye cream during the day and over the radical night repair at night) but I'm not noticing great results w/ the bags/darker pigment. My problem is more the deep crease from the corner of the eye down and the puffy/baggy eye look. I look tired even when I'm not!



Have you considered facial exercises? The can definitely help provide some significant lift. FlexEffect is the more comprehensive program, and they have tons of before and after photos on their website.

And then there is my favorite...dermarolling. I have had some significant lift on my upper lids, a total transformation under my eyes, and 90% elimination of my crowsfeet.


Thanks bethany. Don't know what dermarolling is but I'll look into it. If it's effective I'm open to it. Thanks again!

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bethany
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Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:45 pm      Reply with quote
MsJill wrote:
Thanks bethany. Don't know what dermarolling is but I'll look into it. If it's effective I'm open to it. Thanks again!


Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. Smile

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Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:46 am      Reply with quote
I just got Retin-A prescribed to me by the doctor today for acne. I have two kinds, Retin-A .1 and .04. I have read on this forum of people who use Obagi blender along with Retin-A. I am curious, is it really worth it? Do you use Retin-A with Obagi blender or Obagi Clear?

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rileygirl
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Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:08 am      Reply with quote
BCgirl wrote:
I just got Retin-A prescribed to me by the doctor today for acne. I have two kinds, Retin-A .1 and .04. I have read on this forum of people who use Obagi blender along with Retin-A. I am curious, is it really worth it? Do you use Retin-A with Obagi blender or Obagi Clear?


You use the Retin A mixed with the Blender (not the Clear). Nu Derm is definitely worth it if you have hyperpigmentation. If you just have acne, try the Clenziderm system possibly. Nu Derm is a very aggressive treatment, make sure you do your research. If you are interested in the Nu Derm, I would strongly suggest you talk to a derm.
FYIguy
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Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:25 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone,

Here are the answers to the questions about Oclipse Sunscreen + Primer SPF 30.

1. Broad Spectrum: There is no internationally accepted standard for measuring UVA protection. The FDA has proposed a standardized testing protocol based on the data and analysis of about 12 different test methods presented and new labeling to indicate level of UVA protection, but it is still at the proposal level. That being said, TiO2 and ZnO are known to be broad spectrum photoprotectant ingredients Ė so the answer to your question is YES, Oclipse Sunscreen + Primer SPF 30 is broad spectrum.

2. The cuttlefish and black/brown melanin: First, letís discuss the cuttlefish as the source for the melanin. The supplier we get the melanin from for our product has an agreement with fishermen in Portugal where the cuttlefish is fished for its meat. The ink sack is a byproduct of the fishing and is typically discarded (unless it is going to Italy to make risotto nero). Our supplier has it frozen and shipped via air to their facility in CA where a patented process is used to convert the melanin from black (cuttlefish melanin) to brown (human melanin). This is done by partially oxidizing the melanin so that it no longer completely absorbs physical light and allows red & yellow light, thus the brown color.

3. Secret Ingredients: Well, in compliance with OTC drug labeling requirements, there canít be any ďsecret ingredients.Ē As for technology in the product which makes it special which is not screaming out from the ingredient list, let me point out one:

- The melanin in the product is not simply in the product, it is entrapped in a polymeric system designed specifically to keep it intact and at its most effective level. While it is well known that melanin protects the body from UVA/UVB it has yet to be accepted by the FDA as an SPF ingredient. What many donít know is that melanin is by far the strongest antioxidant out there (ten times stronger than vitamin E) Ė it dissipates 99.9% of free radicals it comes in contact with.

4. Dosage / how long it will last: traditionally, 1ml of sunscreen is sufficient to adequately coat & protect the face. With the improved spreading characteristics of an anhydrous silicone elastomer system like the one used in Oclipse, 1ml should be able to spread a bit further. Of course, this is just an industry estimate as itís hard to quantify what a typical face size is. With Oclipse, a little bit goes a long way.


I hope this helps. If there are more questions, please let me know.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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m1rox
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Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:20 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks for explaining the technology behing the Oclipse sunscreen, FYIguy. That's very interesting. Is the tint in the sunscreen attributable to the melanin rather than added colorants in the product?
vanbergc
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Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:38 pm      Reply with quote
Even with all the great technology, the research, the wonderful people behind the product, I still can't afford it. If I had Bill Gates' money, then I would indulge, but given the economy now, and how it's affected our business, I can't even think about it.

It bums me out that skincare has gotten so darn expensive.
zoskinhealth
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Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:23 pm      Reply with quote
If you live in sunny southern California, enjoy talking and thinking about skin care and/or plastic surgery, and would enjoy a spa-like brunch (that means we're serving just healthy stuff!), you're invited to meet Dr. Obagi at a brunch and forum on November 19 at the Estancia Resort and Hotel in La Jolla (10 a.m. -noon)

About the only thing that Dr. Obagi loves more than developing products (like NuDerm, the Blue Peel, and now ZO Skin Health), is talking about skin care...what works, what doesn't, why moisturizers are harmful, how to enjoy a lifetime of healthy, active skin.

And as for the price of ZO products--I agree, they are expensive, especially in this economy. So to make the brunch a little sweeter, we'll also have some free gifts!

If you're able to come, and sorry, space is limited-- we can only accommodate a few people-- please send me a pm, or email Jennifer Barbuto at jbarbuto@zoskinhealth.com. Dr. Obagi will be making other public appearances in 2009, but this is the only one with no fee, and a free gift.

You're welcome to bring a friend, but please do not post this message on other message boards, etc. We are not inviting the general public. Thanks.

Donna Queen

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m1rox
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Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:47 pm      Reply with quote
I don't live in the US! Maybe you can video his talk and put a link on the ZOskin website for it. I would love to see/hear this talk.
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:56 am      Reply with quote
m1rox wrote:
Thanks for explaining the technology behing the Oclipse sunscreen, FYIguy. That's very interesting. Is the tint in the sunscreen attributable to the melanin rather than added colorants in the product?


Hi m1rox,

The tint is a little bit of both, actually. First, thereís the natural color of the melanin and then a tiny amount of iron oxide is added to achieve the desired tint. Iron oxide is nontoxic, moisture resistant, and graded safe for cosmetic use.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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red head
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Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:36 pm      Reply with quote
Sorry a ding in the memory: Can someone explain the reason why Dr O does not recc moisterizers in any of the lines including ZO thank

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Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:49 pm      Reply with quote
red head wrote:
Sorry a ding in the memory: Can someone explain the reason why Dr O does not recc moisterizers in any of the lines including ZO thank


Because it causes a number of problems including a moisturizer addiction, increased skin sensitivity, and possibly accelerated aging.

Here is a link to where he explains it:
http://books.google.com/books?id=H2fnydnNRiUC&pg=PA23&dq=obagi+moisturizer+addiction

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Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:49 am      Reply with quote
thanks

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m1rox
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Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:11 am      Reply with quote
Wow, bethany, great link. Have you read the whole book? The part about the moisturizers really set me thinking about it.
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Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:36 pm      Reply with quote
m1rox wrote:
Wow, bethany, great link. Have you read the whole book? The part about the moisturizers really set me thinking about it.


I did read the whole book, and thought it was a great primer on Retin A (and retinols in general), chemical peels, and Dr. Obagi's philosphies in general. But I'm not sure that it is worth $250.

However, I came away with 1) a ton of respect for Dr. O...he was way ahead of everyone else. And 2) an understanding that in order to keep older skin looking young, it needs to be stimulated constantly so that it can ACT young. I am definitely going to be using a retinol product every day for the rest of my life!

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red head
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Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:06 pm      Reply with quote
It makes perfect sense about the moisterizers masking the affect that your skin needs. I have normal/combo and since Obagi my face does not need as much foundation or a need to powder/blot during the day.

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Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:01 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
red head wrote:
Sorry a ding in the memory: Can someone explain the reason why Dr O does not recc moisterizers in any of the lines including ZO thank


Because it causes a number of problems including a moisturizer addiction, increased skin sensitivity, and possibly accelerated aging.

Here is a link to where he explains it:
http://books.google.com/books?id=H2fnydnNRiUC&pg=PA23&dq=obagi+moisturizer+addiction


I think it's just me but I can't find the part where he talks about moisturizers, could someone point it out to me? Thanks
rileygirl
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Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:21 pm      Reply with quote
It is on page 23, jom.

I will have to 2nd Bethany on the book. It is a great read for any one who loves Dr. Obagi and his skin care. But, I do not think it is worth the $200+.
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