NOTH Never Over The Hill Products - Anyone Using Them?
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free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:43 am

NOTH products were recently brought to my attention, and I thought a dedicated thread would be a great way for everyone to share information. Hopefully the founder, John C Hill will weigh in here with some of his valuable insight as well.

Line Overview:
"Never Over The Hill Cosmetics offers the very best in anti-age and skin protecting cosmetics to consumers of any generation. We use stable, botanical emollients to create functional cosmetic products that work for you as intended. We offer these products at consumer friendly prices because we produce them directly from the cosmetic chemist to you using state of the art "just in time" production techniques. We have no Executive Department, no Marketing Department, no Advertising Department and no warehouse. We are not a corporate conglomerate with huge overhead costs. Therefore, we can afford to pass the savings on to you. We can also formulate with the very best natural raw materials because pure profit is not our goal. Thankfully, we are not forced to use cheap, unstable, or synthetic raw materials in order to cut costs. Our goal is simply to deliver products that work as intended at a price you can afford."

http://www.neveroverthehill.com/Home_Page.html

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:06 am

Thanks for starting this thread here, I really do appreciate it.

For those of you who do use the products I think it would be a good idea to share your observations and your opinions here.

Don't hold back here. If it is the best product you've ever used, say so! If the product did nothing for you, say that too. There is no way to learn and grow if you are narrow minded, and I'm willing to listen to any and all feedback. If improvements need to be made, I'm ready to make them. If the products function as intended and have shown improvements in your individual case, the folks on this forum would like to know.

If you have technical quesitons please ask them here as well.

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:16 am

I haven't used any of the products, but I just looked over the ingredients, and there's really nothing there that I would want to try. Reading Notch's posts on that other thread, maybe I had higher expectations.

I'm not interested in self tanners or fat burners, the sunscreen is chemical, the moisturizers sound ok but are unexciting and aren't that well priced in consideration of the ingredients. (The less expensive version uses mineral oil)

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:36 am

Thanks for your comment Nimue. If you knew the exact cost of the emollient moisturizers (much higher than other emollients) you would know that these products are well priced.

"CHEMICAL"

We need to get a definition here I think to clear up a long-standing misunderstanding of the workd chemical.

A chemical is a compound made up of atoms to form a functional group. Water is a "chemical" (two hydrogens and an oxygen). the air we breath is a "chemical" (oxygen, nitrogen, argon, and others in small quantities). As a matter of fact, virtually everything on this planet is a "chemical". Every single ingredient in every cosmetic formula ever made is "chemical".

Chemical....is not a BAD word and should never be construed as a bad word. I, and every other cosmetic chemist I know, chuckle when they see people ask for "chemical free" cosmetics. There is no such thing as "chemical free" anything here on earth.

Now, if you don't like the OMC or the OS or the Benzophenone-3 sunscreens because they are "chemicals" keep in mind that ZnO (zinc oxide) and TiO2 (titanium dioxide) which are "mechanical" sunscreens are also chemicals!

I like the OMC, OS, Benzophonone-3 to get "broad spectrum" sunscreen protection. But, keep in mind, that particular product was not designed to be a sunscreen product at all. It is actually a skin moisturizer with many jojoba raw materials....that just happens to have sunscreen actives in it to give protection in case you go outside. This product was never meant to be some sort of super-suncreen product.

Thanks again for the comments...

John

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:17 pm

I know of at least 2 forum members who have tried these products, so hopefully they will weigh in on the ones they tried and their thoughts.

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:42 pm

I have tried 2 of the NOTCH products. Unfortunately, they did not work for me.

I tried the fat burning gel, which I do not like the texture of at all. It feels like a thick layer of vaseline on my skin, and it stains everything it touches. I did not get the red and/or heated feeling from the product that a few of the other users got. I used this for 4 weeks faithfully, but I did not have any reduction in inches, unfortunately. It could be with a longer time use, I may have had results, but I really do not like the greasy feel of the product, nor do I like the fact that my clothes got stained yellow. (I used this on my belly/waist area).

I also used the anti-wrinkle cream. I did a trial of this product, used twice a day for 4 weeks, on my vertical lip lines (only in this area with nothing else applied, other than sunscreen). Granted, these lip lines are extremely hard to treat, but the anti-wrinkle cream made my lines look worse than before I started the cream. Again, maybe longer usage would have made a difference, but with the lines looking worse than they were originally, I decided to stop that product. I felt there was something in that particular product that my skin was not liking, but that is just my opinion.

Obviously, everyone's skin is different and what works for 1 will not work for all. Just wanted to share my experience.

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:22 pm

doodles wrote:

Hi John,
Can you tell me what the maximum percentage of glycerin is that you want to see in a formula?. Also, what about aloe gel - is it ok?. Or glycerin in an aloe based formula?. I can't use any oils on my skin including jojoba. They don't sink in no matter how small of an amount I use. I tried to use a couple of drops of jojoba as a moisturizer under my tazorac and it seemed to be working but a couple of days later I had some cysts to deal with. Lotions or creams with glycerin don't sink in either (and they make my skin super oily) but they don't make be break out so they are ok under the tazorac at night. Any info would be appreciated as I need to use some kind of moisturizer because the taz is so drying. TIA.

NOTCH wrote:

doodles, for you I would recommend something with macadamia oil in it. The INCI name will be Macadamia Integrifolia (seed) oil on the label. It is a very dry emollient that should penetrate easily for you, and not cause break outs.

John

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:24 pm

NOTCH wrote:

Cocoa butter is also considered a botanical, triglyceride oil type raw material. I think too many consumers today are fixated on the term "essential oil", and it is being misused quite regularly. I'll do a search tomorrow and find a fitting definition of what really is and "essential oil" and I think you will be quite surprised and how few true essential oils there are.

Vitamin E "oil" is quite accurately known as "Tocopherols" and that is the name that should be correctly used on the label. Tocopherols is just a small fraction in some plants. The oils that plants naturally produce contain a small amount of tocopherols in them as a protective device. Its the natural antioxidant for the plant. There isn't a botanical tree or plant called a "Tocopherol tree" or "vitemain E tree". Vitamin E is quite nourishing to the skin, and probably is not drying.

One thing I do want to emphasize is that both macadamia oil and jojoba oil are non-comedagenic. That is, they easily penetrate the skin and virtually never clog skin pores. The reason they are "occlusive" and trap moisture in is because they actually fortify, and enhance the natural skin sebum you already have, thus making it harder for moisture (water) to get through this built up barrier. Very rarely will you find anyone who has problems using macadamia oil and jojoba oil. That's because these products are so very similar to skin sebum. And, the old adage goes, "like dissolves like". So it is very compatible with the skin, not foreign like synthetic emollients and esters would be that can clog the skin pores.

John

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:24 pm

NOTCH wrote:

An optimum loading for glycerin in a formula is usually 1% to 3%. This is best for drawing moisture from the atmosphere, to the skin rather than from the skin, to the atmosphere.

Remember, glycerin is a dirt cheap commodity product. It is just pennies per kilogram, so its easy to "overload" in a formula just to save cost. But overloading can draw moisture away from your skin in this case.

If it is in the ingredients list in second, third, or even fourth position, there is a chance it is overloaded in a formula. But, don't worry if it is "near the top" of the list, because that may be the proper loading position.

No, jojoba oil and macadamia oil are not the only botanical emollients that are very good for the skin. I can think of others such as meadowfoam, high oleic safflower, etc. I'm just very familiar with jojoba and macadamia and like working with those two because of proven good results.

Not all creams and lotions are a waste of money. It all depends on the user and his or her skin type. One lotion that may be good for you, may be not so good for another user since we all have slightly different skin characteristics. The best way to find out if the product is right for you is to use it, and observe the effects. If you don't see or feel any type of improvement, then don't stay with that product too long. That's when you start wasting money.

John

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:26 pm

NOTCH wrote:

Essential Oils

While going through this thread I noticed that the term, and concept, of essential oils is being misconstrued by some members here. I went through some of my cosmetic journals and found a couple of good definitions that will be useful.

First, before the definitions I'll give you a quick nutshell answer. Essential Oils are "fragrant" oils obtained from plants. Essentially (no pun intended!) if they give off an "essence", they are essential oils. THAT, is where the name comes from. It's NOT that the oil is something we essentially have to have on our skin, or something like that. These oils are "volatile" meaning that they evaporate and give off an aroma. Ingredients that evaporate do not stay on the skin for an extended period and thus, cannot do much for the skin. Rarely are they used by the big cosmetic houses unless they want to add an "aroma" to the formula, and since many people have allergies to fragrances, they consider adding them to be a problem. Usually, you will find essential oils in formulas from holistic practicioners and home formulators. The big cosmetic houses are not allowed to make any "healing" claims per FDA regulations, so they cannot use these and make label claims of healing. Thus, they rarely use them.

Most of the emollient oils that you find in creams and lotions are "triglyceride" oils, also know as "fixed oils". They do not evaporate. The stable, low in polyunsatured fatty acids do not smell at all. The inherently unstable emollient oils with high polyunsatured fatty acids start out with no odor. But, as they oxidize, they begin to give off a rancid smell. Other than triglyceride oils there are also wax esters like jojoba, and mineral oils, like mineral oil and petrolatum. None of these are "essential oils".

Definitions:

Essential oils
Volatile, fragrant oils obtained from plants. Essential oils are distinguished from those known as fixed oils, which are mainly triglycerides of fatty acids. Essential oils have been obtained from over 3000 plants and are designated and defined by the plant species and sometimes the geographical location. The sources of these oils are diverse, including flower petals (for example, rose and jasmine), spices (cinnamon and ginger), pine oil and turpentine, and citrus fruit peels. Compounds present in the juice that may contribute to the distinctive flavor of a fruit or berry are not, strictly speaking, components of the essential oil. Chemically, essential oils are extremely complex mixtures containing compounds of every major functional-group class. The oils are isolated by steam distillation, extraction, or mechanical expression of the plant material; often only certain parts, such as roots, buds, leaves, or flower petals, are used. Essential oils have been produced and used for flavoring, incense, and medicinal purposes for many centuries.

Essential oil: An oil derived from a natural substance, usually either for its healing properties or as a perfume. Some pharmaceuticals, and many over-the-counter or "holistic" remedies, are based on or contain essential oils. Examples include products containing camphor or eucalyptus that help relieve congestive coughs, and the essential oils used in the practice of aromatherapy.

So botanical seed oils (oils extracted from the seed of the plant) such as: Avocado, Sweet Almond, Borage, Hemp, Grape Seed, Olive, Meadowfoam, Macadamia, Jojoba, High Oleic Sunflower, High Oleic Safflower, Castor, Mango, Cocoa, Coconut, Canola, Rice Bran, and many, many others are all triglyceride oils, NOT essential oils.

Emu is an animal derived oil and so was left off the list, but of course, it is not an essential oil either.

Hope this information helps.

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:32 pm

rileygirl wrote:

I have tried 2 of the NOTCH products. Unfortunately, they did not work for me.

I tried the fat burning gel, which I do not like the texture of at all. It feels like a thick layer of vaseline on my skin, and it stains everything it touches. I did not get the red and/or heated feeling from the product that a few of the other users got. I used this for 4 weeks faithfully, but I did not have any reduction in inches, unfortunately. It could be with a longer time use, I may have had results, but I really do not like the greasy feel of the product, nor do I like the fact that my clothes got stained yellow. (I used this on my belly/waist area).

I also used the anti-wrinkle cream. I did a trial of this product, used twice a day for 4 weeks, on my vertical lip lines (only in this area with nothing else applied, other than sunscreen). Granted, these lip lines are extremely hard to treat, but the anti-wrinkle cream made my lines look worse than before I started the cream. Again, maybe longer usage would have made a difference, but with the lines looking worse than they were originally, I decided to stop that product. I felt there was something in that particular product that my skin was not liking, but that is just my opinion.

Obviously, everyone's skin is different and what works for 1 will not work for all. Just wanted to share my experience.

Riley, you are absolutely right that one thing doesn't work for everyone, darn it! And that is pretty much what John said in one of his quotes. And 2 times a day for 4 weeks seems like a pretty fair trial for your skin.

I haven't tried any of the NOTH products myself, and will watch to see what others say before doing so.

NOTCH wrote:

One lotion that may be good for you, may be not so good for another user since we all have slightly different skin characteristics. The best way to find out if the product is right for you is to use it, and observe the effects. If you don't see or feel any type of improvement, then don't stay with that product too long. That's when you start wasting money.

John

Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:07 pm

i also use several of the products and love them
love the Anti Wrinkle Cream i have used this one for few months now and it is very hydrating.
the sunless tanner was wonderful i took a big size of it to Greece with me and it was immediately confiscated by my BFF's 18 year old daughter. lol
she love it also.
i mainly used it on my legs and the small size lasted a long time.
the cellulite lotion is a bit hard to use i admit but when i was diligent it helped allot with my upper arms it took about 6 weeks.
also i have used the scrub and the Light and Simple lotion which somehow ended up in my husbands side of the sink if you know what i mean lol.
we are just getting back to normal living after having been in Greece for 6 weeks and in Chicago for 10 days .
but i wanted to give you all my experience with Johns skin care.
Sue.M

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:21 pm

Sue - you host the Delphi forum for John, right?

John - what other forums are you an active poster on? It might be great for people to pop over and read some of the feedback on your products at those sites until you get your own "fan base" built up here.

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:35 pm

Chemistry lesson aside, we all know what we mean when we use the terms chemical vs. physical in the context of sunscreen active ingredients. I just prefer a sunscreen with zinc oxide as the active ingredient.

NOTCH wrote:

Thanks for your comment Nimue. If you knew the exact cost of the emollient moisturizers (much higher than other emollients) you would know that these products are well priced.

"CHEMICAL"

We need to get a definition here I think to clear up a long-standing misunderstanding of the workd chemical.

A chemical is a compound made up of atoms to form a functional group. Water is a "chemical" (two hydrogens and an oxygen). the air we breath is a "chemical" (oxygen, nitrogen, argon, and others in small quantities). As a matter of fact, virtually everything on this planet is a "chemical". Every single ingredient in every cosmetic formula ever made is "chemical".

Chemical....is not a BAD word and should never be construed as a bad word. I, and every other cosmetic chemist I know, chuckle when they see people ask for "chemical free" cosmetics. There is no such thing as "chemical free" anything here on earth.

Now, if you don't like the OMC or the OS or the Benzophenone-3 sunscreens because they are "chemicals" keep in mind that ZnO (zinc oxide) and TiO2 (titanium dioxide) which are "mechanical" sunscreens are also chemicals!

I like the OMC, OS, Benzophonone-3 to get "broad spectrum" sunscreen protection. But, keep in mind, that particular product was not designed to be a sunscreen product at all. It is actually a skin moisturizer with many jojoba raw materials....that just happens to have sunscreen actives in it to give protection in case you go outside. This product was never meant to be some sort of super-suncreen product.

Thanks again for the comments...

John

Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:44 pm

Yes

i am the host of th forum.
i tried the products first and loved them.
Sue.M

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:55 pm

This is a good idea bethany. Sharing knowledge is what the internet is all about.

So, along with the EDS forum board here...

...and of course, the Delphi Forum "Never Over The Hill"

I spend time in the discussions on the following boards:

One that I really liked was the old YTF Forum Board (Yes, They Are Fake). That board was the one that started it all out for Never Over The Hill Cosmetics because I gave away a LOT of my products for free for the users to try and give their opinions. The overwhelming positive feedback that I got convinced me that the venture was good, and I started the business. Now the board is called "Spectacularskin", or the "New" YTF board. It's still good, and I still participate there. (http://talk.spectacularskin.com/)

Labmuffins forum (www.labmuffins.com)

Beauty Addict Forum (www.beautyaddictmag.com)

Face Forum discussion board (www4.faceforum.com)

What other forums do you folks follow?

John

Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:37 pm

Marketing information has been removed. Please stay on topic here and refrain from product promotion, or the thread will be locked. Thank you.

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:59 pm

I use the anti wrinkle cream and really like it. It leaves my skin looking really nice. However it hasn't removed any wrinkles. I still like the way it makes my skin look and feel so I still purchase it.

The fat burning lotion didn't work for me either. I used it on my thighs, mostly for cellulite. I still have one and abit pots left so I'm planning on trying again but on my bra rolls this time. Maybe a different area will work. Either way I may as well use what's left.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:49 am

BettieSandra wrote:

edited to remove self-promotion

BettieSandra, it's so interesting that every post you've ever made here has either been about NOTCH products or the Gold Bond moisturizer that JCH helped formulate. You must be quite a fan of JCH and his products. Confused

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:49 am

BettieSandra wrote:

edited to remove self-promotion

Sorry, BettieSandra, but I did use spray and wash, and then a liquid detergent to try to get the stains out. My "tightie whities" are stained a nice yellow right where they hit my tummy, which is where they covered the topical fat burning gel. Check out the Fat Burning review thread; I am not alone in the fact that this stuff stains everything it touches, which is why Blues recommended to wear black, so you could not see the stain!

Glad you have had such good results. Do you have any before and after pictures you can share with us?

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:20 pm

I visited the home site of NOTH. You said not to hold back. While I haven't used any of the potions and creams. The pictures of the samples aren't too enticing. I remember a survey John took on this forum a while back. One of the questions asks about the importance of packaging. I may have said not too important vs. cost. Well, I've changed my mind. I would not venture to purchase a product looking like that. (One reason would be safety and the other would be stability ). Just my opinion.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:48 pm

I've used 4 jars of Anti Wrinkle Cream, 2x/day on my whole face but did not see any improvement at all. It's a good moisturizer but that's about it.

I agree with doohicus about the packaging. I don't care about the package that much as long as the product works. But the label is not water proof and the prints get smeared very easy. It really don't look that good.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:18 pm

My goodness. I've never understood the acrimony with the line or founder with some and I'm not sure the cattiness is necessary. Right off the bat, I do use the Gold Bond with jojoba, that was recommended from John once many moons ago. So you might want to take that into consideration since there seem to be worries of vast skincare conspiracies. Regarding the NOTH products, I've only used the fat burner which I felt did a good job and the anti wrinkle cream that I probably wouldn't reorder. I used it for awhile and found I got little bumps where I applied it, primarily around my eyes. The Fat Burner, as I mentioned in the other thread, I much preferred the darker version due to consistency. I want to clarify something Riley said however. When I referred to the staining of clothes, I was initially using the dark chocolate version and not the yellow. I do think the yellow is a little too goopy for my tastes but I will use it again regardless because it works. Sometimes I don't feel like working out but I do it anyway because it works and that's how I feel about the fat burner. I also don't wear underwear when I wear workout clothes as I despise panty lines so stained underwear wasn't an issue. Someday I'll try the tanner on my legs, when I get around to it.

Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:27 pm

Whatever the case may be, the cattiness and sarcasm are truly not appreciated here. Posts have been deleted and I hope the owners of those can clearly understand why. If not then please feel free to PM me.

Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:08 pm

John - your post has been deleted, please see my PM. Any more posts that are marketing for your company will get this thread locked. Please do what other vendors do - let your products speak for themselves; if they are good products then other people will write about them without you having to push them.

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