Had diathermy consult today...
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free skin care · Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:27 am

...for my chest and unfortunately he said it's a no-go. Sad

He reakons I've got too many tiny veins and it would take forever to zap each one, and also said it would probably burn my skin. He suggests doing either laser or IPL, both of which I've tried before. The IPL did squat after 6 treatments, but the laser I did only try once. He said you generally need 2 or 3 treatments with the laser. So I'm considering trying laser again. I've booked into a derms office for a consult on it next week.
I'll let you know what happens after that.

free skin care · Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:19 pm

Oh, that's too bad on the no go for diathermy, Mishey. Looking forward to hearing how your consult goes. Is the laser for this expensive?

free skin care · Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:22 pm

I'll be interested to hear exactly what laser they recommend...there are so many out there these days!

free skin care · Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:11 pm

Rileygirl and bethany I have my consult on monday morning. Will let you know what's said. I have no idea yet about the costs or which type of laser but I'll be sure to let you know.

Got a bad feeling that I'm not going to like the price. Doubt

free skin care · Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:22 pm

Mishey wrote:

Got a bad feeling that I'm not going to like the price. Doubt

That's what I am afraid of, as well!

free skin care · Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:05 pm

rileygirl wrote:

Mishey wrote:

Got a bad feeling that I'm not going to like the price. Doubt

That's what I am afraid of, as well!

Same here! Just make sure that you get the exact name of the laser so that we can look up some feedback from actual users.

We can also ask Emmany, who is a laser specialist.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:06 am

Had my consult this morning. Boo hoo Crying or Very sad

She told me that the laser would also be no good as there's too many tiny veins. Only good for a few here and there that you can see and treat easily. Suggested the IPL, they have one called I2PL. At $500 a treatment and very possible it won't work on me, it looks like I'm going to have to live with my chest and use concealer on it all summer.

Boo hoo again. Crying or Very sad

By the way the laser they use for veins is called the Lyra laser.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:29 am

Oh, no. I'm sorry Mishey. ($500 is a lot of money to spend on something that may not work!)

Thanks for getting back to us with the info you found out. I appreciate it.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:55 am

Mishey wrote:

Had my consult this morning. Boo hoo Crying or Very sad

She told me that the laser would also be no good as there's too many tiny veins. Only good for a few here and there that you can see and treat easily. Suggested the IPL, they have one called I2PL. At $500 a treatment and very possible it won't work on me, it looks like I'm going to have to live with my chest and use concealer on it all summer.

So have you considered the NIA24 products or dermarolling? Catski has had some luck on her chest with NIA24.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:30 pm

rileygirl wrote:

Oh, no. I'm sorry Mishey. ($500 is a lot of money to spend on something that may not work!)

Thanks for getting back to us with the info you found out. I appreciate it.

It sure is alot of $$$ when I'd need 3 to find out if it's going to work. Considering the money I've spent all ready.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:40 pm

bethany wrote:

So have you considered the NIA24 products or dermarolling? Catski has had some luck on her chest with NIA24.

Bethany I am dermarolling, but so far have only done 2 rolls on my chest. I had no trouble with the first roll but my second caused a reaction. It's been a few months since my last chest roll and I'm going to give it another go but wanted to wait till after my appts in case I react again. I won't be using retin a on it this time either. Do you think rolling may help with capillaries?

And the NIA24? Is that good for this too?

Do I still have some hope here? Pray

Thanks.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:31 pm

Mishey wrote:

bethany wrote:

So have you considered the NIA24 products or dermarolling? Catski has had some luck on her chest with NIA24.

Bethany I am dermarolling, but so far have only done 2 rolls on my chest. I had no trouble with the first roll but my second caused a reaction. It's been a few months since my last chest roll and I'm going to give it another go but wanted to wait till after my appts in case I react again. I won't be using retin a on it this time either. Do you think rolling may help with capillaries?

And the NIA24? Is that good for this too?

Do I still have some hope here? Pray

Thanks.

I think you definitely have some hope!!

Rolling should definitely help with the capillaries, because it will thicken the skin. It will also help exfoliate the pigmented skin. But you cannot roll the chest too frequently, as it is not very forgiving. Sad

Here are a couple of questions for you...if you can answer these, maybe I can make some rolling recommendations since I also have a finicky chest:
- What length needles are you using on your chest?
- Exactly what did you apply before/after you rolled, and what was the timing? (immediately after, the next day, etc.)
- How much time passed between your 1st and 2nd chest roll?

The NIA24 looks like a pretty good product line, though I have not tried it myself. If you look at this thread, you will see that DianaP has had some pretty good pigmentation results (with pics) and Catski said that she also has had good results on her chest just by using the scrub.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18153&highlight=nia24

Another option is the Vivite' Vibrance by Allergan with is supposed to be just as good as hydroquinone, but less irritating. (I just saw some on ebay for $79)
http://www.futurederm.com/2008/10/14/exciting-new-ingredient-methyl-dihydroxybenzoate/

And there is always the Obagi Nu Derm Clear and Blender with hydroquinine that you could use with Retin A a couple of times a week (or more if your chest can handle it). Or you could just use the Clear by itself. (they carry both here at EDS)

Lastly, the Vi Derm Bleaching Cream Rx is another hyroquinone option...I have this, and it is pretty nice.
http://www.skinstore4less.com/pages-products/vipeel/vidermbleach.html

http://mds.la/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MDS&Product_Code=VID-BCRX&Category_Code=VIDERM

I only WISH that I had tried some of these other options before I wasted $3500 on a laser treatment on my face that didn't work, AND that I think cooked my pigmentation and made it even harder to remove. Mad

So don't give up yet...you have a TON of options!!

free skin care · Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:09 am

Mishey - if I understand you right, your problem is broken capillaries - not hyperpigmentation.

I don't believe any topicals will help eliminating the appearance of the capillaries, but vitamin C serum might help strengthening the capillaries to prevent them from getting worse.

I am a little surprised that the therapist would not use diathermy on your veins. As you told, the veins are thin, and you could treat a few at a time. Perhaps you can get a second opinion from another therapist.

Sorry I cannot be more helpful, but I think diathermy (or laser) is the only treatment that can improve the appearance of broken capillaries.

free skin care · Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:09 am

I have to agree with Septembergirl. From everything I have read on line and everything I have read on this forum, no topical seems able to get rid of broken caps. That said, there is certainly no harm in trying something that "may" help; it will be a lot cheaper than the medical option! I'm wondering about a DIY type product, possibly Garden of Wisdom or SAS?

ETA: I will ask Justin over on the ZO thread to give his thoughts for broken caps!

free skin care · Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:47 am

I was thinking that it was both hyperpigmentation and the veins...sorry about that!

But I still think that dermarolling can help...it has made some veins under my eyes pretty much disappear, and some broken caps next to my nose.

free skin care · Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:41 pm

Yes it is capillaries that's the problem, not pigment. So it seems maybe the dermaroller may be able to help this then.

Bethany I've rolled my chest with the 1.5mm roller, then put retin a on it about 30 minutes later. BIG MISTAKE! No retin a till the next day next time. I left it about 2 weeks between the rolls.

Septembergirl there is one more person here that does diathermy, maybe I will get that second opinion. And I'm using homemade vit c, haven't been using it that long yet. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it helps.

Rileygirl thanks for asking Justin, I haven't been looking at that thread. And it's getting long.

Thanks for your advice everyone. Smile

free skin care · Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:38 pm

Mishey wrote:

Bethany I've rolled my chest with the 1.5mm roller, then put retin a on it about 30 minutes later. BIG MISTAKE! No retin a till the next day next time. I left it about 2 weeks between the rolls.

The chest is so senstive that I would wait 3 to 4 weeks between rolls if you need to. Just do each roll as intensely as you can, and you may want to think about even waiting until 2 days later for the Retin A.

free skin care · Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:03 am

bethany wrote:

Mishey wrote:

Bethany I've rolled my chest with the 1.5mm roller, then put retin a on it about 30 minutes later. BIG MISTAKE! No retin a till the next day next time. I left it about 2 weeks between the rolls.

The chest is so senstive that I would wait 3 to 4 weeks between rolls if you need to. Just do each roll as intensely as you can, and you may want to think about even waiting until 2 days later for the Retin A.

Thanks Bethany, I'll definately be careful after the last balls up. It took weeks to get over it.

free skin care · Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:48 am

Mishey wrote:

bethany wrote:

Mishey wrote:

Bethany I've rolled my chest with the 1.5mm roller, then put retin a on it about 30 minutes later. BIG MISTAKE! No retin a till the next day next time. I left it about 2 weeks between the rolls.

The chest is so senstive that I would wait 3 to 4 weeks between rolls if you need to. Just do each roll as intensely as you can, and you may want to think about even waiting until 2 days later for the Retin A.

Thanks Bethany, I'll definately be careful after the last balls up. It took weeks to get over it.

I found that my chest became hypersensitive after a couple of those bad experiences, and I had to wait a couple of months for it to fully recover. Then I started rolling again, delayed the RA for a couple of days, and now only roll every 4-6 weeks...no more hypersensitive chest!

free skin care · Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:31 am

bethany wrote:

Mishey wrote:

bethany wrote:

Mishey wrote:

Bethany I've rolled my chest with the 1.5mm roller, then put retin a on it about 30 minutes later. BIG MISTAKE! No retin a till the next day next time. I left it about 2 weeks between the rolls.

The chest is so senstive that I would wait 3 to 4 weeks between rolls if you need to. Just do each roll as intensely as you can, and you may want to think about even waiting until 2 days later for the Retin A.

Thanks Bethany, I'll definately be careful after the last balls up. It took weeks to get over it.

I found that my chest became hypersensitive after a couple of those bad experiences, and I had to wait a couple of months for it to fully recover. Then I started rolling again, delayed the RA for a couple of days, and now only roll every 4-6 weeks...no more hypersensitive chest!

Bethany I think I'll follow your advice. I'll leave the retin a for 2 days and only do the chest every 4 to 6 weeks. Thanks.

I'm going to make an appt. tomorrow to see the other doc for a second opinion. He's a phlebologist.(Think I spelt that right)
I'll keep you all informed.

free skin care · Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:28 am

Mishey, here is Justin's reply about the broken caps:

"rileygirl wrote:
Justin, when you get some time (!) could you please address the issue of broken capillaries. Is there anything topical one could use that would improve them at all, or would a medical procedure be the only thing that would help? Thanks in advance!

Hi Rileygirl,

As always, thanks for the question.

Broken capillaries are tough... the best treatment is still a non-ablative laser or intense pulsed light treatment at a physician's office. Topically, there has been some evidence that Vitamin K1 has shown positive results, but you need to be careful as some people are very allergic to vitamin K. If you want to try a cream, I would suggest looking for a cream created by a friend of mine in the industry, Dr. Melvin Elson. He is a renowned dermatologist and the patent holder / developer of the vitamin K technology.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc."

free skin care · Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:41 pm

Here is the product in case you are interested, Mishey. Courtesy of Havana and Justin!

I think this might be it, rileygirl:
http://www.911skin.com/advanced-rescue-5-vitamin-k-cream.html

free skin care · Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:16 am

rileygirl wrote:

Here is the product in case you are interested, Mishey. Courtesy of Havana and Justin!

I think this might be it, rileygirl:
http://www.911skin.com/advanced-rescue-5-vitamin-k-cream.html

Thanks so much Rileygirl. This is definately worth a try.
I'll be ordering some of that next week. Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:45 am

Just an update for you. The phleb also said too many small veins to zap. Would take too long and could scar.

So it looks like the vitamin K is the way to go. (Thanks Rileygirl).

free skin care · Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:36 am

Mishey, keep us posted if it works, ok? If it works for you, after I am done with Nu Derm, I will definitely try it.

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