| Author |
Message |
|
|
 |
Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:04 pm  |
A rather disturbing scientific study has recently been published in the reputable journal "Archives of Dermatology". The study shows that patients treated in a hospital with 0.1 % tretinoin topically to prevent skin cancer had a higher risk of death than the persons not using tretinoin.
A total of 1131 elderly people took part in the study, with 2-6-year follow-up. The study was stopped 6 months earlier than planned because of excess mortality in the treatment group. At the time the study was stopped, 108 deaths had occured among the 565 subjects in the tretinoin group, compared with 76 deaths among the 566 subjects in the control group.
Professor in Dermatology, Dr Leslie Baumann, called the results of the study "very disturbing" in her blog (see link below) recently.
Anti-Wrinkle Creams May Increase the Risk of Death
| Quote: |
Retin-A (generically known as tretinoin) is a vitamin A analogue that is a popular acne medication. It is also used "off-label" to prevent skin cancers, treat wrinkles and prevent skin aging. Renova, which is also a form of tretinoin, is FDA-approved to reduce the signs of wrinkles.
These products have been used safely and effectively for many years. However, a recent study by Weinstock published in the reputable journal Archives of Dermatology, was very disturbing. It showed that patients treated in a VA hospital with 0.1 % tretinoin topically to prevent skin cancer had a higher risk of death than those not using tretinoin. The veterans in this study were predominately elderly men
The researchers looked at various factors in the study to try to determine the explanation for the increased number of deaths among tretinoin users. It is difficult to know for sure because the study was not designed to look for risk of death, but it seems that it is smokers who are at greater risk.
This finding goes along with a study looking at an oral form of vitamin A called isotretinoin that showed that isotretinoin may be harmful to current smokers.
It is important to realize that this is the first sign of a risk of harm from using tretinoin after decades on the market, so this study's results may not hold up when more testing is done.
However, it is prudent to take this advice: If you use tretinoin (retinol, adapalene, tazarotene) or take vitamin A or beta carotene supplements, please don't smoke. Smoking is known to age your skin prematurely and to cause lung disease and heart disease. It now looks as if using popular anti-aging products in addition to smoking may increase your risk of death.
To join a discussion on this topic, please visit my website.
http://health.yahoo.com/experts/skintype/14808/anti-wrinkle-creams-may-increase-the-risk-of-death/ |
If you open the link to Dr Baumann's post, there are links to other articles about the study and excerpts from the study.
There was also this article from Journal Watch - medicine that matters - where the author writes that a causal association between tretinoin therapy and increased mortality is unlikely:
http://dermatology.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2009/130/1
Bottom line: This study is not good news for retinoid users, but more research is needed before one can draw conclusions about mortality as a potential "side effect" from tretinoin therapy. |
_________________
Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
|
|
|
|
Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:34 pm |
This is certainly sobering news. It seems consistent with some earlier studies looking at oral supplements of beta carotene which showed that those taking the supplements had higher mortality than those who did not. Hopefully, more research will help figure out whether there is a causal link or not and whether some might be at greater risk than others.
In the meantime, I would second Dr. Baumann's recommendations that Retin A users not smoke or that smokers seriously consider not using Retin A. Second, it is probably prudent in this case to limit exposure to retinoids to the smallest dosage that gives good results. Sometimes we get in a mindset that, if a little is good, more must be better. Lower dose rather than higher dose is probably a good idea if the lower dose is effective for you. |
|
|
|
|
|
Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:49 pm |
| I also remembered reading that there was a correlation with beta carotene and lung cancer with smokers. I never thought that this could also be related to vitamin A on the face, but can see how it can happen. |
|
|
|
|
|
Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:31 pm |
| I read about this on Futurederm. I think it is rather scary, especially being a smoker myself. I think there needs to be further studies, but it certainly does make you pause and think. |
|
|
|
|
|
Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:41 pm |
Between "cancer causing" hydroquinone and "death causing" Retin-A (by the way it seems so vague its hard to take it seriously) I am not worried one bit. Eating big macs can kill you too. But, i'll get one if I feel like it  Everything in moderation, including Retin A  |
|
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:07 am |
| amonavis wrote: |
| Between "cancer causing" hydroquinone and "death causing" Retin-A (by the way it seems so vague its hard to take it seriously) I am not worried one bit. Eating big macs can kill you too. But, i'll get one if I feel like it Everything in moderation, including Retin A |
Can I ask how old you are? I am guessing that you are in your 20's, max. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:12 am |
| Septembergirl wrote: |
| Professor in Dermatology, Dr Leslie Baumann, called the results of the study "very disturbing" in her blog (see link below) recently. |
The fact that someone of Dr. Baumann's caliber is calling it disturbing is quite concerning in its own right...definitely something to pay attention to.
Interestingly, it makes you wonder about lines that are based (and marketed) around retinol...I think ZO has retinol in every product that they offer. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:15 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| amonavis wrote: |
| Between "cancer causing" hydroquinone and "death causing" Retin-A (by the way it seems so vague its hard to take it seriously) I am not worried one bit. Eating big macs can kill you too. But, i'll get one if I feel like it Everything in moderation, including Retin A |
Can I ask how old you are? I am guessing that you are in your 20's, max. |
I am in my 20's. Why? I still believe that everything can pretty much kill you, if you take it to excess. We eat pesticides and hormones that are in our foods. We use personal care products like anti persperant that contain aluminum that may contribute to Alzheimer's. We drink sugar free beverages that have shown carcinogenic properties in the past. We eat fast food laden with bad fats all too often. We breath in polluted air if we live in a big city. The list goes on and one. Adding Retin A to the mix doesn't concern me. Especially since it has been around for so long. The study done shows a correlation between Retin A and death. Until there is more specific proof about how this drug can cause death, I will continue to use it. As Dr Baumann mentions, this is only one study among many which have shown Retin A to be safe. We use so many medications which have only been around for maybe 5 or 10 years and there is no data to prove long term safety. I simply believe that its not worth worrying about until there is more evidence. Worrying too much will give me wrinkles, and then I might need to add even more Retin A. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:30 am |
Wow this really is disturbing! But I do agree with Amonovis that that in this day and age it's too stressful to worry about EVERYTHING that can possibly kill you...
I wonder how much Retin A the people in the study used? Maybe they used it as a mask and slathered it on like frosting on a cake? |
|
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:31 am |
| Oh well, I'll make a pretty corpse... |
|
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:20 am |
| fat_swan wrote: |
I wonder how much Retin A the people in the study used? Maybe they used it as a mask and slathered it on like frosting on a cake? |
The people in the study used a cream with a 0.1 % concentration of tretinoin up to twice daily, depending on tolerance, for 2 to 6 years. That is quite a lot, but I guess that many of the participants only managed to use it once daily (?) due to peeling, irritation etc.
I myself had to stop using Retin-A because of acute hair loss and eye brow loss (telogen effluvium) that occurred last September, eight weeks after I started using the cream. The hair growth on my scalp is back to normal, but I still lose a couple of hairs from each of my eye brows every day. Telogen effluvium is known to be very persistent, and it may take several months or even years to "heal" completely.
When I did some research on Retin-A and hair loss, I found that I was not the only one experiencing hair loss from tretinoin. However, hair loss is only listed as a side effect from the use of the oral form of vitamin A, isotretinoin.
Well, this study gives me further confirmation that topically applied tretinoin is highly penetrable and might cause some of the same side effects as the oral forms of vitamin A. |
_________________
Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:01 am |
Of course, nearly anything can be toxic in huge dosages. Eat a box of salt at a sitting and you're probably dead. But the worrying thing about this study is that statistically significant higher rates of death occurred when patients were using Retin A at dosages and frequencies comparable to normal usage. This isn't a situation where a lab rat was force fed a huge amount of a chemical and got cancer; it was normal human subjects using the product topically. This isn't the case with artificial sweeteners, hydroquinone, etc., where animal studies have shown toxicity only when exposed to mega-dosage amounts. So it would seem that this study, particularly given its congruence with earlier studies showing higher rates of lung cancer death among those using Vitamin A oral supplements, is worth serious consideration.
I think what we are seeing and will possibly continue to see is that there can be a negative side to all of the amazing active skincare ingredients that we are using. On the plus side, we are the first generation that has had the benefit of skincare products that have scientifically shown efficacy in doing more than just moisturizing. But products that are powerful enough to cause real change in the skin may be powerful enough to have real side effects, too. Keep in mind that the studies that have been done on these products are looking for efficacy first (is there a decrease in lines and wrinkles?) and immediate side effects (is there irritation or skin damage?) No one has yet done full scale epidemiological studies to look at whether there are other long term health effects of topical skincare actives.
I'm not giving up retinoids myself at the moment, but I have decided not to ramp up the dosage that I currently use and will give consideration to reducing my exposure further. And I will definitely continue to keep an eye on this area of research. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:13 am |
| Septembergirl wrote: |
| I myself had to stop using Retin-A because of acute hair loss and eye brow loss (telogen effluvium) that occurred last September, eight weeks after I started using the cream. |
Septembergirl, did you use Retin-A on your scalp, are those the areas that you experienced hair loss? Or did you apply it on your face and lose hair on your head?
I ask because I've been using Tazorac for about 1 1/2 yrs now, and and in this time I have noticed significant hair loss as well. Only 'til a minute ago did I make the correlation between the Taz and my hair. I wonder if Taz can affect hair loss in the same way as Retin-A..? Thanks! |
|
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:38 am |
| flitcraft wrote: |
I think what we are seeing and will possibly continue to see is that there can be a negative side to all of the amazing active skincare ingredients that we are using. On the plus side, we are the first generation that has had the benefit of skincare products that have scientifically shown efficacy in doing more than just moisturizing. But products that are powerful enough to cause real change in the skin may be powerful enough to have real side effects, too. Keep in mind that the studies that have been done on these products are looking for efficacy first (is there a decrease in lines and wrinkles?) and immediate side effects (is there irritation or skin damage?) No one has yet done full scale epidemiological studies to look at whether there are other long term health effects of topical skincare actives.
|
Very well said, and I totally agree. I always say we don't know what the effect any of this stuff we put our faces will have in the future. The skin care industry and ingredients are just too new to have any long-term studies done on the effects of skin care to our health. Everything we put on our skin is absorbed into the body. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:11 am |
| fat_swan wrote: |
| Septembergirl wrote: |
| I myself had to stop using Retin-A because of acute hair loss and eye brow loss (telogen effluvium) that occurred last September, eight weeks after I started using the cream. |
Septembergirl, did you use Retin-A on your scalp, are those the areas that you experienced hair loss? Or did you apply it on your face and lose hair on your head?
I ask because I've been using Tazorac for about 1 1/2 yrs now, and and in this time I have noticed significant hair loss as well. Only 'til a minute ago did I make the correlation between the Taz and my hair. I wonder if Taz can affect hair loss in the same way as Retin-A..? Thanks! |
Hi, fat_swan.
I was using tretinoin cream on my face, neck and decolletage 3-5 days a week. I did not use it on my scalp. Tretinoin gets absorbed into the bloodstream, and caused hair loss from my head, as well as eyebrows and body hair.
I have written about my experience in this thread:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=31107&highlight=tretinoin
I don't want to scare people, and I believe most people can use vitamin A creams without any problems, but I think it's important to be aware that it may cause long term hair loss with some unlucky people (like f.ex. me). I am a bit annoyed that hair loss is not mentioned as a side effect on the package, and that most dermatologists therefore seem to deny it. |
_________________
Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:46 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| flitcraft wrote: |
I think what we are seeing and will possibly continue to see is that there can be a negative side to all of the amazing active skincare ingredients that we are using. On the plus side, we are the first generation that has had the benefit of skincare products that have scientifically shown efficacy in doing more than just moisturizing. But products that are powerful enough to cause real change in the skin may be powerful enough to have real side effects, too. Keep in mind that the studies that have been done on these products are looking for efficacy first (is there a decrease in lines and wrinkles?) and immediate side effects (is there irritation or skin damage?) No one has yet done full scale epidemiological studies to look at whether there are other long term health effects of topical skincare actives.
|
Very well said, and I totally agree. I always say we don't know what the effect any of this stuff we put our faces will have in the future. The skin care industry and ingredients are just too new to have any long-term studies done on the effects of skin care to our health. Everything we put on our skin is absorbed into the body. |
Yep...I totally agree too.
I also agree with everything in moderation, but I have noticed that the definition of moderation changes as people age, lol. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:52 am |
| Septembergirl wrote: |
Hi, fat_swan.
I was using tretinoin cream on my face, neck and decolletage 3-5 days a week. I did not use it on my scalp. Tretinoin gets absorbed into the bloodstream, and caused hair loss from my head, as well as eyebrows and body hair.
I have written about my experience in this thread:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=31107&highlight=tretinoin
I don't want to scare people, and I believe most people can use vitamin A creams without any problems, but I think it's important to be aware that it may cause long term hair loss with some unlucky people (like f.ex. me). I am a bit annoyed that hair loss is not mentioned as a side effect on the package, and that most dermatologists therefore seem to deny it. |
Hey Septembergirl, I posted several questions for you on your hair loss thread http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=31107&highlight=tretinoin so as not to hijack this Retin-A/smoking thread. TIA! |
|
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:50 pm |
| Gosh...I've also noticed that my hair isn't as full as it used to be....I didn't think it was because of this. I'm beginning to wonder if I should just go to a retinol vs. stay with the powerful stuff. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:32 pm |
| If you are thinking about moving down to the weaker retinol type of product, why not try a half-face test for a few weeks--use Retin A on one side of your face and your retinol candidate product on the other. If you start to see a difference that you are unhappy with on the retinol side, then you know that product isn't effective enough for you. But if there is no difference, maybe it is a better choice than the stronger and generally pricier Retin A. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:31 am |
| Great idea flitcraft thanks! But I wonder if a milder retinol would still have the same effects on hair as Retin A? Somehow I have a feeling this retinoid-hair relationship may not be relative but absolute |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:49 am |
| Is Tazorac a tretinoin? I'm a smoker too. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:00 am |
No Taz is not tretinoin. But they both belong in the retinoid family.
That's a good point though. I wonder if the study is specific to Retin A? |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:56 am |
| fat_swan wrote: |
No Taz is not tretinoin. But they both belong in the retinoid family.
That's a good point though. I wonder if the study is specific to Retin A? |
It seems like we should be careful with using all vitamin A creams.
| Quote: |
However, it is prudent to take this advice: If you use tretinoin (retinol, adapalene, tazarotene) or take vitamin A or beta carotene supplements, please don't smoke.
From Dr Baumann's blog |
|
_________________
Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
|
|
|
|
Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:48 am |
| Will Retinol pose a problem as well? or is it just tretrenoid? |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:09 am |
| calorblind wrote: |
| Will Retinol pose a problem as well? or is it just tretrenoid? |
Retinol is a retinoid, as well, thus may pose a problem. However, since it's far weaker than tretinoin and tazarotene and found in OTC-products, I think it's less problematic.
But as you can see in the post above yours, Dr Baumann does caution smokers against all topical retinoids, retinol included... |
_________________
Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
|
|
|
| Sun Jun 29, 2025 2:28 am |
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.
Click Here to join our community.
If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site. |
|
 |
|
