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Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:12 am  |
| I feel like lasers are my only hope for treating the hyperpigmentation on my face at this point. I know there has been the surge in dermarolling, and some people are very anti-laser, but I feel it is my last hope in having even toned skin. I actually think that I may have developed exogenous ochronosis from using hydroquinone. I know there is fraxel, etc, but I was just wondering if anybody knew of any new exiting treatments worth researching. |
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:42 am |
| Where do you live? Is your skin blue in some areas? A dermatologist who specialzes in skin of color could tell you. I believe that chemical peels have been effective for treating that, but the kind that only a doctor does. There have only been a few cases of E. Ochronosis ever reported in the USA, however lots in South Africa. Could it be post inflammatory pigmentation from irriration from the hydroquinone? |
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:44 pm |
| amonavis wrote: |
| Where do you live? Is your skin blue in some areas? A dermatologist who specialzes in skin of color could tell you. I believe that chemical peels have been effective for treating that, but the kind that only a doctor does. There have only been a few cases of E. Ochronosis ever reported in the USA, however lots in South Africa. Could it be post inflammatory pigmentation from irriration from the hydroquinone? |
Thank you for the reply! I am in the United States. I don't see any blueness, but the areas do occur symmetrically on both sides of my face and it has not let up at all with any topicals, and it is quite ruddy looking.
I think exogenous ochronosis is much more prevalent than people may think. There are quite a few people that post on the skincarerx message board that also report cases ochoronosis in all backgrounds/skintones.
It could very well be that I have a difficult case of post inflammatory hyperpigmentation, that is what I am hoping, but nonetheless, nothing is helping! |
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:55 pm |
| Have you consulted doctors who specialize in laser treatments? |
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:50 pm |
| i heard many members say that laser treatments often result in pigmentation or discoloration issues, so if ur already dealing with hyperpigmentation and do laser, it's like adding insult to injury. |
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:11 pm |
| It sounds like you have already exhausted everything topically. Why not just see a derm. Even if you have to pay for the visit, you won't be wasting money on stuff that doesn't work or makes things worse. But go to a dermatologist who has experience dealing with african american patients, it will save you a lot of hassle. |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:27 am |
| amonavis wrote: |
| Could it be post inflammatory pigmentation from irriration from the hydroquinone? |
The top complaint with HQ is rebound pigmentation...once you stop using it, or if you miss a day without sunscreen, the spots come back and are worse than ever.
I personally tried 4 treatments of Fraxel, and I believe that it may have cooked my pigmentation and made it even harder to remove. I actually saw negligable improvement for $3,500.  Needless to say, that is the LAST time I listened to my derm without doing extensive research myself.  |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:08 am |
I have to agree with amonavis. Exogenous ochronosis is rare and usually happens after long-term HQ use. How long did you use HQ for Coconut?
"Exogenous ochronosis was first reported in 1906. (4) It is a cutaneous disease resulting from long-term application of topical agents, most commonly hydroquinones. The use of depigmenting agents for cosmetic purposes is a long-standing practice. The exogenous form is characterized by an asymptomatic blue-black hyperpigmentation on the face and on the sides and back of the neck. The etiology of this hyperpigmentation remains unknown. (5) Topical hydroquinone may inhibit homogentisic acid oxidase in the dermis, with the result of a local accumulation of homogentisic acid that polymerizes to form ochronotic pigment. (6,7) The ochronotic coloration most commonly results from the prolonged use of certain topical agents like hydroquinones, but it also occurs with the use of antimalarials ( and products containing resorcinol, phenol, mercury, or picric acid. Most of the patients with exogenous ochronosis are black women, but it has been reported as well in hispanic and caucasic patients. Histological examination is characterized by yellow-brown (ochronotic) pigment deposits in the papillary dermis. Treatment of this condition is very difficult. The casual agent must be avoided and improvement occurs slowly. The effectiveness of a quality-switched (QS) 755-nm alexandrite laser in treating this condition has been reported, without untoward side effects. (9) Cryotherapy, trichloroacetic acid, tretinoin gel, Q-switched ruby laser, dermabrasion and C[O.sub.2] laser have been reported as well for treatment." (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0PDG/is_1_5/ai_n16045463) |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:38 pm |
Thank you for the replies! I feel so torn when it comes to lasers. Doctors often talk up their benefits, but then you hear personal accounts, such as bethany's, of how they destroyed their skin.
Hmm, I only used it for about 4-5 weeks, but it was 4% strength, and it was also after I had finished a course of acctuane and my skin was still quite sensitized. Eveything was jolly while I was using it, and my skin was nearly perfect, but then I decided to stop after reading about a potential fda ban and its carcinogenic effects. Immediately after I discontinued use, the pigmentation came full force, worse than ever.
I have seen dermatologists/estheticians in the past, but none of them have really been knowledgeable enough, if anybody can recommend a good dr. in the Seattle area, I would be thrilled. |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:22 pm |
Coconut, if you only used the 4% HQ for 4-5 weeks, I would seriously doubt it being exogenous ochronosis. Can I ask if you used a really good sunscreen during your use of HQ, as well as when you came off of the HQ?
I agree with you that seeing a good derm is your best course of action right now. Someone needs to be able to physically look at your skin. Good luck with your search! |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:25 pm |
| Remeber to consult good doctors regarding laser. Pigmentation is very likely to develop. |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:28 pm |
| My skin was developed more than four big blisters and a few small ones after my final fraxel laser treatment on the afternoon of the day before yesterday...I am really scared to have more scar even that the doctor put vaseline and tegaderm to heal those. |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:24 pm |
| I dontvhave the link but Dr Baumann cautions against Fraxel for pigmentation problems. I would not do that. Rebound pigmentation is common with hydroquinone. Perhaps another lightening agent combined with a La Roche Posay Anthelios sunscreen would be a good idea. I dont know how serious your pigmentation is. Skinceuticals has a product called Phyto + that contains botanical agents but is probably only going to brighten skin, not get rid of stubborn problems. Hydroquinone is considered safe for use but normally it should be used in 4 month cycles, rotating it with another lightening agent like Niacinamide in the NIA 24 line for example. If hydroquinone is irritating you, you may need to try Tri-Luma which contains a retinoid, hydroquinone, and a topical steroid. You need a prescription for that and it is commonly used for melasma or Post inflammatory pigmentation. |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:18 pm |
| Seeing amonavis recommend Anthelios sunscreen made me think of something else. When I was using Nu Derm, I tried the Anthelios and I tanned/freckled right through this stuff. In fact, all of the chemical sunscreens I have used I have tanned/freckled through. So, depending on what type of sunscreen you use chemical or physical, maybe you could try the opposite one and see if that works for you. I have great results with physical sunscreens. Just a thought! |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:59 pm |
| True. LRP is inconsitant with their products depending where you buy them. For example the Anthelios in the US only contains Mexoryl SX whereas the ones in europe and canada contain both SX and XL. But the Canadian version is weird and greasy and sticky. The one I use and recommend is from Europe and it contains, get this Rileygirl: Mexoryl SX, XL, Tinsorb, Titanium Dioxide, and Octrylene. Im not nuts about the octrylene but it hasnt been a problem and I use antioxidants with it to prevent any free radical formation. Also Octrylene is said to be better than Octinoxate and doesn't have the estrogenic effects. I bought my Antelios Fluide Extreme 50+ PPD 28 from Pharmamundi which sells it for cheap! It is my HG sunscreen. That said, some people definately prefer physical sunscreen which are non irritating. |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:16 pm |
| Interesting, amonavis! I did not realize different countries had different "versions" so to speak. I got my Anthelios from europe (don't remember the website now, as this was probably 2 years ago!), and that was the only one I tried. Since I didn't have good results with that one, I never tried any other version of it. Some people swear by it, though! |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:29 pm |
Laser treatment has it own consequences.Of course, HQ do lots of damage than good result.You should go to good practice dermatologist that have more experiences rather than experiencing product yourself with greater risk.Product with HQ are not allowed in Malaysia, even though some of the skincare product with HQ try to penetrate the market. It will be soon ceased by Cosmetic Enforcement authority. Most of our Malaysian product cure the skin in terms of using the fresh vegetables and herb.You should try to see Dr Clara.L Chee. I have seen her ultrasound treatment with the gel herbs works, to reduce the pigmentation.Its work in just 3 months!HHmmm she has done it!  |
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Always believes and improves life... |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:19 am |
| healthyskinisyours wrote: |
| Laser treatment has it own consequences.Of course, HQ do lots of damage than good result.You should go to good practice dermatologist that have more experiences rather than experiencing product yourself with greater risk.Product with HQ are not allowed in Malaysia, even though some of the skincare product with HQ try to penetrate the market. It will be soon ceased by Cosmetic Enforcement authority. Most of our Malaysian product cure the skin in terms of using the fresh vegetables and herb.You should try to see Dr Clara.L Chee. I have seen her ultrasound treatment with the gel herbs works, to reduce the pigmentation.Its work in just 3 months!HHmmm she has done it! |
Where is Dr Clara L Chee? Is she in Malaysia? If so, I don't think I can see her so easily as I'm in the US. |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:21 am |
| I just remember something. My sister used to have hyperpigmentation spots but she got rid of them with laser treatments. I will have to ask her what type of laser treatments she got. |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:01 am |
Glad I stopped by this thread...I was planning on putting money down to have two laser treatments on my face.
Sorry if this topic has already been discussed...but I did a search and this seems to be the dominate thread.
Bira (or anyone else) - can you tell me a little about the consequences of getting a laser treatment to remove red veins and sun damage?
I was told I would need to do 2 treatments and that at first my spots would turn darker but then turn into little scabs and fall off. I was also told the laser would remove the little red veins around my nose. I was told that the laser will not help with any pock marks but will even out my skin tone.
I wear 30 spf every day, I no longer tan, and avoid the sun at all costs.
Please give me your advice.....especially someone that has already tired this.
Oh, and I am not doing the Fraxel....they said they would use the same laser as they do for laser hair removal but at a diff level. I will bring my paperwork in next week and tell you the exact name of the laser.
Thank you for the help! |
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Moderately fair, dry, prone to break outs on chin, sun damage, 30s. |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:07 pm |
| I think Obagi Nu-derm is good for pigmentation. Before my final fraxel treatment, I was required to use Obagi nu-derm to heal laser developed pigmentation. It works. Obagi Nu-derm works well with tretino for acne scar. |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:21 pm |
| Obagi is good for brown discoloration. Red needs to be treated with IPL or V beam, or topicals like Niacinamide in NIA 24 can help. I have gotten V beam before and it is effective, relatively cheap, quick. No complaints at all. Sometimes it takes a few treatments. |
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:38 pm |
| amonavis wrote: |
| Obagi is good for brown discoloration. Red needs to be treated with IPL or V beam, or topicals like Niacinamide in NIA 24 can help. I have gotten V beam before and it is effective, relatively cheap, quick. No complaints at all. Sometimes it takes a few treatments. |
Doesn't obagi work via hydroquinone though? |
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:44 pm |
| Yes Obagi is hydroquinone. |
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