Matrixyl to be "phased out" except to P&G....
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free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:03 pm

Well, I've just learned this bit of information after chatting with a Sederma representative on the phone today about Matrixyl. For those of you who are fans of the wonderful efficacy of Matrixyl (and I am one of them) you may want to pay attention.

I have been told that because of the Patent protection that P&G has on Matrixyl, it will soon not be sold to any other cosmetic company, in any quantity, in the near future. Only P&G will be able to use it.

This news bothers me for two reasons. 1) One of my best selling anti-wrinkle products contains Matrixyl, and the proof that it works and is very effective is overwhelming. I am now going to have to reformulate for 2010 using Matrixyl 3000 which will be available to everyone. I have heard good things about Matrixyl 3000 and I am anxious to get it into the new and improved formula for clinical trials. When that happens, I will once again check here for volunteers to try the new product. 2) Since P&G will have that raw material "cornered" they will be able to charge essentially as much as they want for products that contain Matrixyl, and that is bad for the consumer in my opinion.

If any of you currently use a product that contains Matrixyl, and it is not produced by P&G or a P&G owned company, you had better stock up now. Supplies of Matrixyl have been cut off to everyone else, and you will soon see their products going away.

John

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:45 pm

This news doesn't surprise me. I think when a good ingredient comes along, it's supply will often be limited either through patents or exclusive use by a company (such as P&G). I did notice a while back that the Selderma site didn't have much information on Matrixyl anymore; had info on Matrixyl3000 though.

I personally like Matrixyl and use 2 products that contain it; only one is from P&G though. I haven't tried the Matrixyl3000 yet but I get the feeling that because it is widely available, it isn't anywhere near as good as the original Matrixyl. I always thought that naming the second ingredient with a name so similar to the first was unfortunate, since it creates confusion in the mind of the consumer (although I believe most professional cosmetic chemists have it straight in their heads).

Could you please clarify a point for me Notch regarding Matrixyl vs Matrixyl3000? I think Matrixyl was originally given the INCI name Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-3, and later modified to Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-4. Sometimes I see it listed as glycerin, water, butylene glycol, carbomer, polysorbate 20 and Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-4.

Matrixyl3000 contains two matrikines, Pal-GHK and Pal-GQPR (Palmitoyl Oligopeptide and Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide – 7).

Other than the fact that both Matrixyl and Matrixyl3000 are peptide products created by Selderma, they are 2 completely different and unrelated products ... correct? I often see people say that Matrixyl3000 contains the original Matrixyl PLUS Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide – 7 (which I believe is incorrect). TIA

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:56 pm

Yes Lacy, from my discussion with the Sederma technical representative, these two products are completetly different and independent of each other. Matrixyl 3000 couldn't contain the same peptide as Matrixyl.... or the ugly "Patent issue" would become an issue once again.

The reason you sometimes see Matrixyl listed with the other ingredients is because the raw material itself is a liquid mixture of these ingredients, one of which is the active peptide. All of the individual components should be listed in any ingredients list for a product containing Matrixyl.

I have the Sederma company sending me a TON of technical information as well as clinical trial data on Matrixyl 3000 as we speak. I'm going to go through that info first. Then I'll begin some reformulations in my lab, and begin to set up some clinical trials. Sederma says that Matrixyl 3000 is as good as Matrixyl, but I aim to find out for myself. I'll keep you informed as 2009 winds to a close.

John

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:09 pm

Hmmm... unless Strivectin is owned by P&G, it makes me wonder what they are going to do with their formula(s). Their so-called "Striadril Complex" has Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-3 in it.

John

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:36 pm

NOTCH wrote:

Hmmm... unless Strivectin is owned by P&G, it makes me wonder what they are going to do with their formula(s). Their so-called "Striadril Complex" has Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-3 in it.

John

Never used any Stivectin products myself (too over-priced for a minimal amount of active ingredients from what I read, plus the marketing strategy/customer service is too much for me to handle) but I am personally concerned about a Canadian product from Neostrata Canada called Intense Wrinkle Repair which contains 5% Matrixyl and 0.1% retinol. As an aside, don't you love the way Canadian products are named ... not sure the term "wrinkle" is used in the US (I see anti-aging used instead).

Could you let us know which products you formulate that currently contain Matrixyl as an ingredient and the concentration (if possible)? I seem to recall reading some time ago that 5% concentration was most effective, but I could be wrong on this point. TIA

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:18 pm

Is P&G Procter & Gamble?

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:26 pm

jom wrote:

Is P&G Procter & Gamble?

Yes, the producer of Olay products (Regenerist line contains Matrixyl @3% I believe ... other lines by P&G may also have it, but I am not sure).

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:04 pm

Found this on a blog:

at happi.com

Private Equity Firm Buys StriVectin

2009-07-14 | 08:09

Anti-aging brand is one of the fastest-growing in the U.S.

Money may be tight right now, but that's not stopping one private equity firm from putting a new wrinkle in the global anti-aging market. Catterton Partners, has acquired the StriVectin brand from Klein-Becker for an undisclosed amount. The brand will be managed by Chrysallis, a beauty industry-focused management team.

StriVectin is estimated to generate $100 million in retail sales, and is carried in Macy’s, Bloomingdale’s, Sephora, Ulta and CVS Pharmacy’s Beauty 360 doors. Products in the line include Instant Facial Sculpting Cream, SD Eye Cream, Neck Cream and WF Instant Deep Wrinkle Filler.

Under Chrysallis, which is led by chief executive officer Melisse Shaban and chief marketing officer Jill Scalamandre, the StriVectin brand will be broadened into multiple antiaging platforms and categories, and expanded internationally.
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I'm a little confused. I thought only a formula could be patented. Not an actual organic compound. Matrixyl,is a trademarked name for a formulated product. But I thought it was formulated from ingredients readily avail. to the rest of the world. Is this wrong?

Basically, I can see how the "recipe" is patent protected, but not the ingredients. Unless, it's ingredients were created in their lab????? I have several products that are not P&G related with these ingredients listed in them. They do not list "matrixyl" (some of which are arbonne...I'll be curious to see if they have to reformulate...)

Regardless, it does raise some questions about anti trust/and monopolies. Because, if it's really all that and a bag of chips, they could then hold it to themselves, and charge through the nose for it. Hmmmm... I guess the people of the beauty world will have to unite, and change the ol' demand for the supply... It will be our only control over the price...LOL!

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:26 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

jom wrote:

Is P&G Procter & Gamble?

Yes, the producer of Olay products (Regenerist line contains Matrixyl @3% I believe ... other lines by P&G may also have it, but I am not sure).

Now that I think about it, the Regenerist line may contain Niacinamide at 3% and Matrixyl at a concentration between 1% and 3%. Didn't want to steer anyone in the wrong direction! I don't think Procter & Gamble is telling anyone their exact concentrations though, it's just a best guess by industry outsiders.

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:56 pm

ClaudiaFE wrote:

********************************************

I'm a little confused. I thought only a formula could be patented. Not an actual organic compound. Matrixyl,is a trademarked name for a formulated product. But I thought it was formulated from ingredients readily avail. to the rest of the world. Is this wrong?

Basically, I can see how the "recipe" is patent protected, but not the ingredients. Unless, it's ingredients were created in their lab????? I have several products that are not P&G related with these ingredients listed in them. They do not list "matrixyl" (some of which are arbonne...I'll be curious to see if they have to reformulate...)

Regardless, it does raise some questions about anti trust/and monopolies. Because, if it's really all that and a bag of chips, they could then hold it to themselves, and charge through the nose for it. Hmmmm... I guess the people of the beauty world will have to unite, and change the ol' demand for the supply... It will be our only control over the price...LOL!

It is my understanding that Selderma developed or founded the ingredient Matrixyl in conjunction with Procter & Gamble. I believe P&G did most of the laboratory testing and Selderma continues to do the manufacturing of that ingredient which is a peptide.

Many ingredients are patented, regardless of whether they are derived from natural sources or made in a laboratory. I don't know if it is correct to say that it is an organic compound. You are correct that some formulations are patented as well, but most product formulations are just trade secrets in the sense that exact concentrations of each ingredient are not public knowledge.

You are correct when you say as the sole company using Matrixyl, P&G could charge in theory whatever the market will bear; I am not sure about anti-trust legislation. The name Matrixyl is a Trademark of Selderma.

Does that clarify anything? LOL

Post amended to remove some incorrect information on patents, sorry!

free skin care · Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:36 pm

I'm not even remotely sure about anti trust... as it's not a MUST HAVE like energy and such... just makes me think in that arena...

It sounds like it will be an interesting situation...

free skin care · Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:02 am

I really, really hate big companies who want to monopolise everything. If they could patent the air we breathe, they would.

free skin care · Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:47 am

Lacy53 wrote:

********************************************
It is my understanding that Selderma developed or founded the ingredient Matrixyl in conjunction with Procter & Gamble. I believe P&G did most of the laboratory testing and Selderma continues to do the manufacturing of that ingredient which is a peptide.

Many ingredients are patented, regardless of whether they are derived from natural sources or made in a laboratory. I don't know if it is correct to say that it is an organic compound. You are correct that some formulations are patented as well, but most product formulations are just trade secrets in the sense that exact concentrations of each ingredient are not public knowledge.

You are correct when you say as the sole company using Matrixyl, P&G could charge in theory whatever the market will bear; I am not sure about anti-trust legislation. The name Matrixyl is a Trademark of Selderma.

This, I believe, is all true.

P&G can do what they wish with this peptide, since they are the co-creators and the patent holders. They see a good thing with it and plan, like any company, to cash in and keep their stockholders happy. This original Matrixyl peptide, is not showing any signs of slowing down.

I do not think anti-trust pertains to this, as Lacy says: they own the peptide, flat out. No different than Avene creating and holding the patent for "Retinal" or the retinaldehyde molecule - it's theirs, they own it, and do as they like with it, and can charge whatever they believe the market will bear for it.

free skin care · Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:51 am

Has anyone heard of Prototype 37C? It contains 5% Matrixyl 3000 and a heap of other potent peptides as well. Google around and have a read about it. I would be interested to see if anyone has tried it?

free skin care · Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:33 am

There is generally some sort of "generic" for just about everything created. What is the time frame (is that always fixed?) with regards to getting the generic version. Seems that patents govern this...???

free skin care · Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:48 am

ClaudiaFE wrote:

There is generally some sort of "generic" for just about everything created. What is the time frame (is that always fixed?) with regards to getting the generic version. Seems that patents govern this...???

There are some "generics" out there. SkinActives synthesizes their own collagen-building peptides, similar to Matrixyl and more concentrated.

One is called "Natural Active Peptides" and the other is simply named "Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-3".

free skin care · Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:00 am

WCSmurfette wrote:

ClaudiaFE wrote:

There is generally some sort of "generic" for just about everything created. What is the time frame (is that always fixed?) with regards to getting the generic version. Seems that patents govern this...???

There are some "generics" out there. SkinActives synthesizes their own collagen-building peptides, similar to Matrixyl and more concentrated.

One is called "Natural Active Peptides" and the other is simply named "Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-3".

Isn't "Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-3" Matrixyl? hmm

free skin care · Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:14 am

fat_swan wrote:

WCSmurfette wrote:

ClaudiaFE wrote:

There is generally some sort of "generic" for just about everything created. What is the time frame (is that always fixed?) with regards to getting the generic version. Seems that patents govern this...???

There are some "generics" out there. SkinActives synthesizes their own collagen-building peptides, similar to Matrixyl and more concentrated.

One is called "Natural Active Peptides" and the other is simply named "Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-3".

Isn't "Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-3" Matrixyl? hmm

The INCI name for Matrixyl changed from Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-3 to Palmitoyl Pentapeptide-4 when researchers discovered further information on how the palmitoyl fatty acid group was attached (to the 4th amino acid rather than the 3rd).

Matrixyl is not a patented ingredient, to the best of my knowledge. It is however the trademark name that Selderma uses. There are generic versions of Matrixyl out there ... a google search will show palmitoyl pentapeptide-4 available from China.

Many companies formulate products which contain this ingredient HOWEVER only companies which have the palmitoyl pentapeptide-4 supplied by Selderma can state that they use Matrixyl as an ingredient. The name Matrixyl would appear in the advertising not on the ingredient list.

Kleenex is facial tissue, but not all facial tissue can be called kleenex. (Kimberly-Clark Worldwide, Inc owns the term kleenex since it is a ® Registered Trademark)

I think the issue of where a company buys its palmitoyl pentapeptide-4 from boils down to confidence in its supplier. Selderma has the best reputation.

free skin care · Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:36 pm

Prototype 37C is said to also contain 50% syncoll,19% acetyloctapeptide3, 12% acetylhexapeptide8, !% eyeseryl and 1% HA. Would any or all of these be a suitable substitute for matrixyl 3000 Question

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