Why do derms not recognize LED as effective?
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Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:34 am Quote

I have researched LED treatment for anti-aging and I haven't been able to find any dermatologist that recognizes LED's to be effective...I have been using the lightstim for about a month and I think I can tell a difference already in my pores, texture and sun damage.

Does anyone have any links to derms recommending it for wrinkles?

Thanks!
Mary

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:42 am Quote

For the same reason they don't *recommend* facial exercise; It cuts into their bottom line..

Why would they tell their clients about wonderful things they could do at home (with great results), for very little monetary investment?

Do a search on PubMed for lots of very positive LED studies.. Wink

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:35 am Quote

They do recommend it, provided that they are selling it as a service in their office (like Gentlewaves) or offer a branded take-home model (like Perricone).

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:09 pm Quote

Yep = So long as it's going to bring business in some form, the will recommend it I suppose.

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:47 pm Quote

I agree with Kassy.

LED light treatments are very similar to laser treatments.

Laser treatments - destroy some cells to promote regrowth
$200-400 per session

LED - non-invasive treatment to promote skin cell growth
$300

If you are a dermatologist, will you sell a product that costs the same amount as something you provide on a bi-monthly basis? Its all about revenue sustainability.

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:43 pm Quote

I've never known a dermatologist to recommend anything that they're not selling. And a good many have also told me that the only moisturiser that actually works is sorbolene, everything else is a waste of money (maybe they're right on that point!) I wonder what reaction you'd get if you mention the Dermaroller? Very Happy

Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:57 am Quote

Where to you buy Sorbulene??

enjoys freebies · Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:03 am Quote

JaclynS wrote:

Where to you buy Sorbulene??

Sorbolene cream is one of the most common and basic moisturising creams there is and has been around forever. It's an old time standard. You will find it at your local supermarket or pharmacy. In my comments above I am not recommending its use, just pointing out that dermatologists don't very often recommend anything that is "cutting-edge". It is a fabulous moisturiser for the body though.

enjoys freebies · Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:29 am Quote

Keliu wrote:

I've never known a dermatologist to recommend anything that they're not selling. And a good many have also told me that the only moisturiser that actually works is sorbolene, everything else is a waste of money (maybe they're right on that point!) I wonder what reaction you'd get if you mention the Dermaroller? Very Happy

Hi all,

I completely agree. recently, I realized my dermatologist had recommended only treatments and products available in the clinic. I was recommended a program of Aluma and IPL, which i understood I would top up every year following the initial 6 treatments. However, once completed I learned that i would need Aluma monthly FOREVER! Hmmm. I have read extensively about the dermaroller on EDS and am about to purchase the 0.5 and 1mm sizes. I feel this would be the perfect complementary at home treatment.

enjoys freebies · Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:59 am Quote

The best of all worlds would be a recommendation from a skin professional who is not also selling anything.

Are any of these devices recommended by an ubiased skin authority?

BF

enjoys freebies · Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:48 am Quote

Barefootgirl wrote:

The best of all worlds would be a recommendation from a skin professional who is not also selling anything.

Are any of these devices recommended by an ubiased skin authority?

BF

Dr Huber of 302 skincare has suggested ways for people to include LED in their routines that would be beneficial with 302, and he doesn't sell LED's or endorse any particular brand. He also suggests that 2mhz ultrasound (he recommends Bellaire models for home use, or something with similar specs) can help speed up the improvement for people with certain issues. He pointed out though that significant, long term improvement of very troubled/damaged skin will most likely take from 6 months to a year.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:05 am Quote

http://blogs.zdnet.com/emergingtech/?p=1070

Has anyone read this? I thought it was based on unbiased researchers. Please give me your thoughts?

enjoys freebies · Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:36 am Quote

I just want to jump to the defense of dermatologists--at least some of them! I was referred to a dermatologist some years ago when I was undergoing radiation and chemo that aged my skin horribly. She was terrific, suggesting a good skincare regimen including antioxidant Vitamin C, retinoids, and sunscreen. And she wasn't out to "sell" me anything, just make some suggestions of things that might help. Later on, I asked her about peptides, and her answer was that the current research showed some preliminary positive findings, but there wasn't the body of research that existed to positively recommend them yet.

I realize that a lot of derms don't know or care much about "cosmetic" skin issues because they are more focussed on serious skin diseases and conditions. And others who work for spas may have a vested financial interest in pushing therapies featured by the spa. But I know there are other derms that are open-minded and caring, because I had one. Sadly, she's retired to Montana... (I actually emailed her just after her retirement to ask her about LEDs. She wrote back that there isn't much in the way of good scientific evidence yet supporting their use in skincare, but that the theoretical mechanism for LEDs to work is sound, and that she wouldn't be surprised to see better research establishing efficacy in the near future. Man, I miss that woman...)

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:55 am Quote

<I actually emailed her just after her retirement to ask her about LEDs. She wrote back that there isn't much in the way of good scientific evidence yet supporting their use in skincare, but that the theoretical mechanism for LEDs to work is sound, and that she wouldn't be surprised to see better research establishing efficacy in the near future>

Leslie Baumann said the same thing and I suppose this is what has kept me from jumping in and spending the $$

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:56 am Quote

My derm, too, said LED is not effective. I'm thinking he doesn't want people to go buy LED and do the treatments at home.

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:44 pm Quote

Bira wrote:

My derm, too, said LED is not effective. I'm thinking he doesn't want people to go buy LED and do the treatments at home.

Your derm may or may not have a financial motive, but at this point it is a toss up whether or not consumer devices can make any significant change. I have serious doubts that the devices available to us as consumers (and even the devices in some dr's offices and spas) are actually strong enough to provide the results that were achieved in the NASA studies, for instance.

I continue using my Prolight just because it isn't hurting anything and for all I know it *could* be helping. It seems to be helping my ear heal more quickly, but to be honest, I think that's a result of the heat it generates, rather than the red/infrared wavelengths. I mentioned in another thread that I might very well get the same results with a heating pad or a hot compress.

I'm certainly not trying to talk anyone out of buying one, if that's what they want, but don't think it's a magic bullet by any means. Even the Gentlewaves unit, which is currently only available in spas and Dr offices, did not do well when subjected to independant testing -- but *the users were very happy with the results*. (Objective observers noticed no difference!) And I don't believe that our units are stronger than the Gentlewaves.

Just some food for thought!

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:15 pm Quote

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

Dr Huber of 302 skincare has suggested ways for people to include LED in their routines that would be beneficial with 302, and he doesn't sell LED's or endorse any particular brand. He also suggests that 2mhz ultrasound (he recommends Bellaire models for home use, or something with similar specs) can help speed up the improvement for people with certain issues. He pointed out though that significant, long term improvement of very troubled/damaged skin will most likely take from 6 months to a year.

Low, I am not positive, but I don't think he recommends the LED's any longer. I don't think he found them effective. I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered reading that somewhere!

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:50 pm Quote

Bira wrote:

My derm, too, said LED is not effective. I'm thinking he doesn't want people to go buy LED and do the treatments at home.

Good thinkin.. Laughing

ETA: The folks who get the good results (like moi), are fairly committed, and also prep the skin before each LED treatment to get the best result.. Some of the girls I talk with (using all different LED's), get out of patience when after a month they aren't seeing apparent changes. Then when I ask them if they did certain things to prepare the skin and take pictures, the answer is usually NO.. Long story short, is you'll get out of it, what you put into it... It's one piece of the puzzle!

enjoys freebies · Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:07 pm Quote

I totally agree with all of the sentiments expressed by Lowbrowscientist above. I'm very dedicated to using all of my home-use gadgets but actually remain quite sceptical as to whether any of them are actually doing anything. However, most of us are looking for a quick-fix - which, realistically, no topical or gadget is going to give us. Like Lowbrow, I just hope that long term use of an LED is going to have a positive effect on my skin in the long run.

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