botox results by understanding facial muscles..
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free skin care · Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:30 pm

After doing facial exercises for awhile now, I've been wondering if it's possible to replicate botox results by understanding and consciously manipulating facial muscles? Reading about Safetox & my own experiences with other muscles in my body leads me to think it might be possible...

I've seen some impressive before & afters of botox eyelifts & have read the following about how this works:

Quote:

The frontalis muscle can be injected in the forehead, but not in the area directly above the outer aspect of the brow. This will allow the frontalis muscle to raise the brow if the muscle which pulls down the brow, the orbicularis, is injected or relaxed directly under the brow.

I've previously had good results "foam rolling" sore spots in my leg muscles & back... so have been thinking something similar may be possible on forehead and eye muscles. Since I can't use a foam roller on my face, I've tried a pen or mascara tube - rolling slowly over my eyebrows/forehead stopping at pressure/pain points until the pain lessens. I've also been massaging and attempting to feel the frontalis/forehead muscle - looking for obvious nodules/tight areas and working on them.

I don't have any results to share as of yet, but am wondering if anyone else has investigated or had experience in this area?

free skin care · Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:24 pm

I think that part of the issue here is that some lines are a result from chronically holding an expression. (frown lines etc.) And the muscles are in part strong in one direction and weak in the other. They also hold tension. This is where you will hear that smoothing the muscle is what's ideal. And that makes partial sense. The prob. as I think those of us that do facial exercises see it, is that the loss of muscle tone, a common result for botox usage, like an invisible cast on your face, is also aging eventually.

So, I think, yes, your idea of rolling the muscle is good. It's basically a form of massage. For a multitude of reasons, you want to massage your muscles. In fact, I immediately think of myofascial release. One of which would be to aid your muscles in releasing unnecessary tension and line resulting expressions.

Really, I would liken Facial Exercise again to that of the body. You work your legs to create a shapely line, and massage them as well... to say keep them in high functioning form, no fascia out of place. But you wouldn't throw them into a cast to stop muscle development, so all one can see is bone. Shapeless and unattractive...

free skin care · Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:58 am

Claudia, which muscle is responsible for causing the undereye wrinkles when smile? Is it the eye muscle or the cheek muscle?

free skin care · Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:16 am

Bira, the way you pose this question makes it interesting.

Cheeks that are built, when the eye (palpebral, lower) has lost build, will allow the cheeks to squish the tissues above causing a crinkled look. Basically lacking in a smooth transition over the muscle. Additionally, it's the breakdown of the tissues that allow for "crinkling." You'll notice even a young child will get "wrinkles" when they smile. But they are fuller, and thicker. If the Cheeks were flatter (which I don't think is ideal), they wouldn't push up perhaps as noticeably, but then you'd have sag below.

So, as an adult, I would be incorporating massage of the area, as well as making sure that my lower lids were getting work!

free skin care · Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:04 pm

Re foam rolling, there are some people who have done things from rolling can's of soda (diet coke etc) cold from the fridge (I'm not one), but do remember trying a Pritt Stick once. The other thing that I tried on a line, and many people tried it after I suggested was using an Oral B Electronic Toothbrush, to get the circulation going in the lined area. It sounds mad, but you would be amazed at the feeling of it and the results. I used to have a couple of faint lines on my forehead (which I had since a teenager from constantly raising my brows, and they are history now).

I think many of the line problems people have aren't so much with the muscles, but the connective tissue sitting on top of the muscles, and so for me massage is one of the ultimate tools for this.

Sean

free skin care · Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:24 pm

Sean... I can't remember if you got a clarisonic face brush...do you think that would be somewhat similar (granted the tooth brush would be A LOT cheaper... never thought about that!)

free skin care · Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:23 am

Yep got a clarisonic after we spoke about it (yep Claudia convinced me!).

A clarisonic certainly is worth a try, the only thing that puts me off the clarisonic is the bristles aren't quite as close, and it doesn't have the circular motion that a electronic tooth brush does. Its worth trying though! Laughing

ClaudiaFE wrote:

Sean... I can't remember if you got a clarisonic face brush...do you think that would be somewhat similar (granted the tooth brush would be A LOT cheaper... never thought about that!)

free skin care · Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:25 pm

Hmmm... so you prefer you much cheaper tooth brush??? MY GOD how is that possible... Wow... who knew?

free skin care · Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:58 pm

ClaudiaFE wrote:

Bira, the way you pose this question makes it interesting.

Cheeks that are built, when the eye (palpebral, lower) has lost build, will allow the cheeks to squish the tissues above causing a crinkled look. Basically lacking in a smooth transition over the muscle. Additionally, it's the breakdown of the tissues that allow for "crinkling." You'll notice even a young child will get "wrinkles" when they smile. But they are fuller, and thicker. If the Cheeks were flatter (which I don't think is ideal), they wouldn't push up perhaps as noticeably, but then you'd have sag below.

So, as an adult, I would be incorporating massage of the area, as well as making sure that my lower lids were getting work!

You're right on, Claudia. Sometimes I noticed small lines under my eyes, and I would vigorously massage (more like squeeze and roll the crap out of it!) and noticed an immediate improvement of the skin.

free skin care · Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:07 pm

Yeah... you probably just need to challenge the area a bit. But like working the body, a challenge can cause temporary discomfort... with the body - literally, with the face, perhaps an appearance that you're not too excited about. Go at it slow, and with a degree of aggression that is comfortable.

Way to recognize how your face is being effected!!! It can take a while to really understand your own facial structures...

free skin care · Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:23 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Re foam rolling, there are some people who have done things from rolling can's of soda (diet coke etc) cold from the fridge (I'm not one), but do remember trying a Pritt Stick once. The other thing that I tried on a line, and many people tried it after I suggested was using an Oral B Electronic Toothbrush, to get the circulation going in the lined area. It sounds mad, but you would be amazed at the feeling of it and the results. I used to have a couple of faint lines on my forehead (which I had since a teenager from constantly raising my brows, and they are history now).

I think many of the line problems people have aren't so much with the muscles, but the connective tissue sitting on top of the muscles, and so for me massage is one of the ultimate tools for this.

Sean

Hi SeanySeanUK,
Is it possible to use the dermaroller at this eye area? If anyone has done this, which size roller is advised for lines at this delicate area.

free skin care · Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:07 pm

No idea re dermarolling, its not something I have done. There is a huge dermarolling thread here in EDS so your probably post your question there and some experienced dermarollers can guide you but I am not sure that its something you want to be doing on the eye area.

everella wrote:

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Re foam rolling, there are some people who have done things from rolling can's of soda (diet coke etc) cold from the fridge (I'm not one), but do remember trying a Pritt Stick once. The other thing that I tried on a line, and many people tried it after I suggested was using an Oral B Electronic Toothbrush, to get the circulation going in the lined area. It sounds mad, but you would be amazed at the feeling of it and the results. I used to have a couple of faint lines on my forehead (which I had since a teenager from constantly raising my brows, and they are history now).

I think many of the line problems people have aren't so much with the muscles, but the connective tissue sitting on top of the muscles, and so for me massage is one of the ultimate tools for this.

Sean

Hi SeanySeanUK,
Is it possible to use the dermaroller at this eye area? If anyone has done this, which size roller is advised for lines at this delicate area.

Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:38 pm

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Re foam rolling, there are some people who have done things from rolling can's of soda (diet coke etc) cold from the fridge (I'm not one), but do remember trying a Pritt Stick once. The other thing that I tried on a line, and many people tried it after I suggested was using an Oral B Electronic Toothbrush, to get the circulation going in the lined area. It sounds mad, but you would be amazed at the feeling of it and the results. I used to have a couple of faint lines on my forehead (which I had since a teenager from constantly raising my brows, and they are history now).

I think many of the line problems people have aren't so much with the muscles, but the connective tissue sitting on top of the muscles, and so for me massage is one of the ultimate tools for this.

Sean

Sean, I am not sure I have the right picture in my head! Laughing

Do you mean you used the vibrating toothbrush bristles on a your forehead lines? or was it the vibrating handle part that you rolled on your forehead lines? Either way it's interesting....

free skin care · Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:44 am

It was actually using the brushes bristles, so it was almost just like brushing my teeth although in this case it was brushing the wrinkle (without toothpaste of course).

Words can't do it justice, but you get the idea!

Sean

havana8 wrote:

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Re foam rolling, there are some people who have done things from rolling can's of soda (diet coke etc) cold from the fridge (I'm not one), but do remember trying a Pritt Stick once. The other thing that I tried on a line, and many people tried it after I suggested was using an Oral B Electronic Toothbrush, to get the circulation going in the lined area. It sounds mad, but you would be amazed at the feeling of it and the results. I used to have a couple of faint lines on my forehead (which I had since a teenager from constantly raising my brows, and they are history now).

I think many of the line problems people have aren't so much with the muscles, but the connective tissue sitting on top of the muscles, and so for me massage is one of the ultimate tools for this.

Sean

Sean, I am not sure I have the right picture in my head! Laughing

Do you mean you used the vibrating toothbrush bristles on a your forehead lines? or was it the vibrating handle part that you rolled on your forehead lines? Either way it's interesting....

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