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Anyone REALLY know? BHA/AHA's and Retinoids together....
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susiek
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Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:12 pm      Reply with quote
On another forum, this article was brought up and said one should use BHA/AHA's separate from Retinoids. I was told differently and that using them close together, the BHA can act like an enhancer. I apply BHA, wait 20 mins and then apply Eluage. However this article says they can inactivate one another.

BUT, it was brought up the co-formulator of Retin-A has a product that combines both Retin-A and Glycolic acid. So does Diacneal. I'd like to REALLY know the truth so i can adjust my skin care regime accordingly.

http://www.futurederm.com/2009/06/19/how-do-i-use-a-retinoid-and-aha-together/

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calorblind
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:37 am      Reply with quote
i think u should trust the article because Dr Leslie Baumann is a very respected figure in the skincare field and has done many researche. She must have information to back up the Aha-Retinol use.
kdd2411
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:19 am      Reply with quote
This is a good question. I always though they would cancel each other out if use together. If this is wrong, that will change how I apply my skincare. Can anyone give some input?
GirlieGirl
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:58 am      Reply with quote
Dr B is well respected and I trust what she has to say but I find this article a bit confusing.

I read this as they should not be mixed together. Which I know to be true of many actives since it does decrease effectiveness. But I dont read this as they should not be used at the same time. Generally its suggest to use AHA/BHA in am and retinol at pm because using both at the same time can cause alot more irritation. I'm not sure what to think.
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:59 am      Reply with quote
kdd2411 wrote:
This is a good question. I always though they would cancel each other out if use together. If this is wrong, that will change how I apply my skincare. Can anyone give some input?


BP & Retin-a and also copper peptides & Vit C should not be used together because cancel each other out.
kdd2411
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:24 am      Reply with quote
GirlieGirl wrote:
kdd2411 wrote:
This is a good question. I always though they would cancel each other out if use together. If this is wrong, that will change how I apply my skincare. Can anyone give some input?


BP & Retin-a and also copper peptides & Vit C should not be used together because cancel each other out.


Thanks! I do have one question. What is BP? Sorry I'm slow Smile.
susiek
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:33 am      Reply with quote
i think Benzoyl Peroxide.

I put BHA on and wait 20 minutes and then Eluage. Wouldn't this be essentially the SAME as mixing? Since both are being applied to the skin pretty much at the same time? That's what the article is implying.

My confusion comes in when there's retinoid products formulated that contain AHA. Like Diacneal. And they work??

SIGH. I guess i'll start using my BHA in the a.m.

Was hoping it would help to be a penetrator for Eluage

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Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:17 pm      Reply with quote
susiek wrote:

I put BHA on and wait 20 minutes and then Eluage. Wouldn't this be essentially the SAME as mixing?


This may just be semantics here but IMO no its not the same because each product is applied separately its pH is not altered and each can absorb on it own. JMO of course.
susiek
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:22 pm      Reply with quote
That makes sense.....BUT.....her article specifically stated using one in the a.m. and the other in the p.m.

Rolling Eyes

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calorblind
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:42 pm      Reply with quote
yeah just dont use it together, anyway i just submitted this question to Derm TV hopefully he picks up my questions for the video!! will keep u guys updated
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:38 pm      Reply with quote
Dr. Obagi says it is fine to use AHAs and retinol at the same time and the retinol can help help enhance the effects of the AHAs.
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:46 pm      Reply with quote
I would question the comments made here as futurederm will use the term RetiNOID interchangably with RetiNOL.(check on all her posts on these 2) They are not the same and I wish she would distinquish that.

A Retinoid is the term used for Rx products that are in the tretinoin family - brands Retin-A, Retin-A Micro, Renova, Avita, or generic. Tazorac and Avage(tazoratene) are in this same family; Differin is an adapalene, but a cousin of Retin A. All retinoids are in the form of all-trans retinoic acid already.

Retinols are the Vitamin A products that still have to convert to trans-retonic acid. This takes time and depends on the integrity of the formula of specific brands of retinols. Some will do a better job of converting than others.


Suffice it to say, the 2 are not the same and I wonder if futurederm was referring to the retinol version instead of the retioid. I actually picked up a new prescription of Retin A Micro int he past year and was told it could be applied in the AM, so these comments don't hold up as all-inclusive.

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nevava
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Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:35 pm      Reply with quote
I'm totally confused...
foxe
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Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:19 pm      Reply with quote
I'm sorry if I confused you. I also don't get notices on posts, so I didn't realize there was a post after mine.

Hopefully I can clear this up.

With regards to the orginal question
Quote:
...one should use BHA/AHA's separate from Retinoids. I was told differently and that using them close together, the BHA can act like an enhancer.


I believe that the reason one should NOT use acids like AHAs and BHAs at the same time as Retinoids is the likely enhanced irritation that would occur.

I don't believe that one would *cancel* the other out, however. Their pH's are at the same level - they are both acidic (below a 7 pH - which is neutral), so canceling would not occur at the pH point. But - using them on the same days might be a bit much for your skin and cause too much reaction. (Which is not neccessarily a good thing.)

It might be better to alternate use of acids and retinoids - using them at night. Using at night is preferable for a retinol as the sunlight can degrade the Vitamin A in them (I believe this holds true for retinoids as well). Also, using them so close to sun exposure can be more detrimental to the skin as far as increased reaction to the sun goes.

As far as the acids acting like enhancers, that might be true, but I still think it would be too much for most ppls skin. IMHO

Hope that helps!

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StellaMarie
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Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:43 pm      Reply with quote
I have never heard that acids or the sun can decrease the effectiveness of a retinoid. :shrugs: I know conventional wisdom is that you should worry about sensitivity of using both acids and retinoids, and it's better to use a retinoid at night because of increased sun sensitivity. Plus it doesn't make much sense to actually mix the two yourself rather than layering.

If anyone is worried about using both, and wants to use them at the same time of day, just use your BHA or AHA first, wait about 30 minutes (most exfoliation is done in the first 10 minutes anyway), rinse and allow your face to dry, and apply the retinoid. Or you could just layer them (acid first, wait at least 10 minutes, then retinoid).
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