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Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:59 pm  |
| tikiandbabu wrote: |
| kims wrote: |
| tikiandbabu wrote: |
| I am on bi-est, progesterone and testosterone. My 50th birthday is next week and I have no wrinkles (none) on my face and have some minimal sagging on my neck. I really think the hormones help, but they are a piece of the puzzle. I also take really good care of myself with diet and supplements and am on a great skincare system. |
Hi Tikiandbabu,
Would you mind sharing what you're using? Supplements and skin care system? Definitely sounds like you're doing something right!!  |
Hi Kims,
Thank you, I think my Endroconologist is amazing and has helped me so much! Here is what I do in the supplement department; I take MACA everyday (which helps to keep our hormones functioning properly) vitamin D1000, Ultra Omega, C1000, ECGc suprement and during flu season (which is starting) I add two K-PAX to the mix each morning.
For skincare: I swear by the Intraceuticals line (Rejuvenation). It is really hydrating without being heavy on the skin .
And.... I drink a ton of water (sometimes 3+ liters a day), do yoga twice a week some form of cardio and weights 3 times a week.
A very smart person once told me that your body is composed of two thirds water so you want to hydrate and keep it going like a running stream not a clogged pond, so water is really important!
Hope that helps
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Thank you! I think part of my problems relate to the fact that I do not drink enough water nor get enough exercise! So simple to fix and completely in my control. No supplement can beat that! |
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50 Is definitely NOT nifty!! |
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Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:11 pm |
For some reason the link did not work for me; I had to type in the article number to get there. So...copy the following
&pubmedid=18044179
then click the link, and paste the above to the end of the URL.
See if that's any better |
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Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:42 pm |
Thanks Riley, Skippie and Hermosa. I was able to retrieve the complete article on my own; I simply did as Hermosa suggested ... went to PubMed, typed in the id number (which pulled up the abstract) then hit the "Free Text Article" link located on the upper right-hand side.
Excellent meta-analysis of the literature on estrogen and aging skin. The authors definitely mention the face, but not specifically the lips (that I could see). It almost makes me want to use estrogen cream topically, although I am not sure if it's completely safe in my particular case. I'll pass on Premarin even though I am aware of some women who do use it on their faces to reduce the appearance or development of wrinkles. Thanks once again for your help. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:55 pm |
| Those statistics about the dramatic decline of skin function made me start to feel anxious. Maybe topical estrogen isn't that bad?!? |
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Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:31 am |
| I've been wondering the same thing about the topical estrogens Hermosa. Maybe someone can chime in on the use of the them..... |
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Female: 42...Fair/Dry...Brown Hair/Green Eyes...Using: Born Again MSM Cream...Country Divine Emu Serum...Juvederm...Botox...Retin-A .05%...Easy Eye Solutions...Started 2/9/12 with Skin Bio Skin Signals Cream and TTT, Spot treating with TriRed |
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Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:05 am |
| Justine1900 wrote: |
| I just got my yearly dose of Juvederm for lip enhancement and all fine lines are gone. This works better and longer and cheaper than any cream, Erbium-yag and Dysport. |
I'm envious that Juvederm injections in your lips has minimized your lip lines. I have a permanent filler in my lips **only for that purpose** and it hasn't done diddly for me!  |
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Vehicle is a 1952 scratch and dent model....olive-ish, dry skin, long curly gray hair. Staples: Tazorac, 2mm Dermaroller, Anti Aging Light Stim, Devita Sunscreens, homemade C serums, some positive affirmations and whatever else it takes! Kicking and screaming the whole way... |
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Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:38 am |
| mountaingirl wrote: |
| I'm envious that Juvederm injections in your lips has minimized your lip lines. I have a permanent filler in my lips **only for that purpose** and it hasn't done diddly for me! |
Which permanent filler did you get?
I've tried Collagen, Restylane and Esthelis (sp?). I only get the filler put in the upper lip border and wrinkles - not in the lips themselves. Getting the filler in the border really helps support the lip and even out wrinkles without getting big puffy lips. I think I like the Collagen the best (because it's very soft). But the clinic I go to now only gives it in 1 ml doses and I only need .5 ml. The Restylane tends to give a lot of swelling and doesn't seems to last very long - not that any of them last very long.
As for the permanent filler not doing anything for you - was the therapist experienced? I really don't think one half of them know what they're doing - their artistic skill is sadly lacking IMO. So it all depends on the injector's expertise on how it turns out. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:42 pm |
You are all very right about lip lines and menopause.
I also want to add on the subject of preventing lip lines, to avoid a complete hysterectomy. As an aesthetician, it is very easy to spot a woman who has never smoked but had a hysterectomy by the unnaturally deep lines in the lip. |
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26yrs- fair, oily but sensitive skin with yellow undertones. brown hair, green eyes- esthetician and fitness instructor- Retin-A user and nutrition geek! |
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Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:58 pm |
| Such horrid things happend to us without estrogen! I had premature ovarian failure years ago after the birth of my son and my cycle never came back. All my troubles started from then on. I looked the same but I felt so diff. Years later I am starting to develop the dreaded lip lines. I am applying phytoestrogen cream and a progestrone cream. I am about to switch to estriol cream. |
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Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:26 pm |
Hi there,
My only advice would be to consider dermabrasion. It can give good results for lines around the mouth. But you would need to consult a dermatologist,
Kind regards,
pinkrose |
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Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:50 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| mountaingirl wrote: |
| I'm envious that Juvederm injections in your lips has minimized your lip lines. I have a permanent filler in my lips **only for that purpose** and it hasn't done diddly for me! |
Which permanent filler did you get?
I've tried Collagen, Restylane and Esthelis (sp?). I only get the filler put in the upper lip border and wrinkles - not in the lips themselves. Getting the filler in the border really helps support the lip and even out wrinkles without getting big puffy lips. I think I like the Collagen the best (because it's very soft). But the clinic I go to now only gives it in 1 ml doses and I only need .5 ml. The Restylane tends to give a lot of swelling and doesn't seems to last very long - not that any of them last very long.
As for the permanent filler not doing anything for you - was the therapist experienced? I really don't think one half of them know what they're doing - their artistic skill is sadly lacking IMO. So it all depends on the injector's expertise on how it turns out. |
I've also had collagan and restalyne before and didn't want to keep having to do that, so I got Silicone 1000 (Silikon 1000). Flew to Chicago to "THE BEST LIP PERSON" for silicone, (Dawn.) If you are familiar with YTF's forum, you will know about Dawn. I don't think it was a matter of her expertise...it was a matter of my lip lines increasing with age..... once again, maybe they would look a lot worse if I didn't have the filler. Let me also mention that typically, most folks go through 3 rounds of silicone. I only had one, since my goal was not bigger lips. I'm sure 3 would have eliminated them!  (BTW, silicone is not approved by the FDA for lips in the USA.) |
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Vehicle is a 1952 scratch and dent model....olive-ish, dry skin, long curly gray hair. Staples: Tazorac, 2mm Dermaroller, Anti Aging Light Stim, Devita Sunscreens, homemade C serums, some positive affirmations and whatever else it takes! Kicking and screaming the whole way... |
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Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:44 pm |
I have to say - Dawn is a great injector. I go to her for my botox.
On the menopause and lip lines - I don't agree w/ the concensus here.
I am still menstruating and I've had the lip lines for about 8 years. Dawn tells me its from the way I purse my lips when I say certain sounds (she watched me). I also use to drink from a straw quite a bit in the past(stay away from pop now and drink H2O instead). I am a previous smoker, but quit over 25 years ago - so I don't think mine are from that. More likely it's the way I speak and the dreaded 'bottle mouth' and 'straw mouth'. 
I did try Botox in a couple of small spots above my lips once to try to stop making the pursed lip movement when I speak. It was a funny feeling(had trouble using a straw!), so I didn't get another injection. but it did make me more aware of that movement so I don't make it as often. |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:42 pm |
I don't want bigger lips either - I hate those huge inflated lips, especially on older women. I might investigate a permanent filler, although then I'd be worried that if it was wrong, I'd be stuck with it - which is bound to happen to me!
One thing that I also don't like about getting fillers, is that then I can't use the Vaculifter - maybe, with a permanent filler I could, don't know. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:19 pm |
| I received my Renova from MedMex today! Now I am afraid to try it! What if my lip lines become worst! |
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Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:27 pm |
| Starlight wrote: |
| I received my Renova from MedMex today! Now I am afraid to try it! What if my lip lines become worst! |
I think in time they will actually improve the lines. My lip lines looked a ton better when I was on Retin A. |
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:43 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Starlight wrote: |
| I received my Renova from MedMex today! Now I am afraid to try it! What if my lip lines become worst! |
I think in time they will actually improve the lines. My lip lines looked a ton better when I was on Retin A. |
Thanks Riley girl! I used the Renova last night and my skin really liked it! |
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Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:01 am |
| Lacy, thanks for the links. I already had seen the 3rd one on TEWL. It looks like people with the perioral wrinkles need to focus on the elastin issue, as well as preventing TEWL in the perioral area. Is that what your take is, or are you getting something out of them that I missed? |
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Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:09 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Lacy, thanks for the links. I already had seen the 3rd one on TEWL. It looks like people with the perioral wrinkles need to focus on the elastin issue, as well as preventing TEWL in the perioral area. Is that what your take is, or are you getting something out of them that I missed? |
I think the first study concludes that the aging upper lip and the appearance of lip lines is attributable to the loss of collagen and elastin (elasticity) in the skin. I think they are referring to the skin outside of the pigmented area we call the upper lip, since the research evidence discounts the popular belief that volume loss in the lip itself causes the lines above the lip.
The second study looks at the deep fat compartments in the area of the face surrounding the lips ( as opposed to superficial subcutaneous fat). They conclude that the loss of deep fat contributes to the changes in the lips associated with aging (such as deterioration of the vermilion border and the hollow that appears between the lower lip and chin).
The third study looks specifically at the pigmented area we call the lips. It concludes that as we age, the lips are less efficient at preventing TEWL and that the lips are more prone to water loss than other areas of the face in general (including the cheeks). This study didn't discuss lip lines specifically, but does suggest that the lips themselves are somewhat different than other skin. It also used male subjects in the sample (the first two cadaver studies don't mention gender).
I may have misinterpreted these abstracts (I didn't read the full studies) or missed an important point, but its the best I could do. If anyone has another opinion, please feel free to post them!
Riley, I think you have the basic gist of the studies but you may have overlooked the findings on deep fat loss as we age. I think usually this issue is missed in most discussions on the changes associated with getting older except in the context of the abdomen and belly fat or "menopot" (an area of the body that we gain deep or visceral fat stores as we age). With respect to elastin: I thought I read somewhere that elastin fibers comprise about 5% of the dermis. For that reason, I am uncertain if elastin is really all that important. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:30 pm |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| Riley, I think you have the basic gist of the studies but you may have overlooked the findings on deep fat loss as we age. I think usually this issue is missed in most discussions on the changes associated with getting older except in the context of the abdomen and belly fat or "menopot" (an area of the body that we gain deep or visceral fat stores as we age). With respect to elastin: I thought I read somewhere that elastin fibers comprise about 5% of the dermis. For that reason, I am uncertain if elastin is really all that important. |
Thanks, Lacy. I didn't miss the fat loss, but I don't think there is anything topical that can fix that!
I was just reading the New Beauty magazine and they have a section on "How will I age if...". Looking at the smokers section is says that "smoking zaps away the elastin so there's less to work with". So this makes me think elastin may play a bigger role in the lip lines. |
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Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:43 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| Riley, I think you have the basic gist of the studies but you may have overlooked the findings on deep fat loss as we age. I think usually this issue is missed in most discussions on the changes associated with getting older except in the context of the abdomen and belly fat or "menopot" (an area of the body that we gain deep or visceral fat stores as we age). With respect to elastin: I thought I read somewhere that elastin fibers comprise about 5% of the dermis. For that reason, I am uncertain if elastin is really all that important. |
Thanks, Lacy. I didn't miss the fat loss, but I don't think there is anything topical that can fix that!
I was just reading the New Beauty magazine and they have a section on "How will I age if...". Looking at the smokers section is says that "smoking zaps away the elastin so there's less to work with". So this makes me think elastin may play a bigger role in the lip lines. |
I generally tend to dismiss most things I read in any beauty magazine; however I did find this study which relates to smoking, skin (dermis) and elastin:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17199572?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
The researchers conclude that:
"Smoking is an independent risk factor for the increase of elastic fibres in the reticular dermis of nonexposed skin, and it acts on their two main structural components, elastin and microfibrillar component. This increase in the area of elastic fibres in smokers is not due to newly synthesized elastic material, but to their degradation, as occurs in solar elastosis and which acts in an additive manner."
The study isn't related directly to the lips, just non-sun-exposed skin (the dermal layer) in general. |
_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:50 pm |
| Small Face Vaculifter worked like a charm for me! |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:39 am |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| Small Face Vaculifter worked like a charm for me! |
SOLD! |
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Vehicle is a 1952 scratch and dent model....olive-ish, dry skin, long curly gray hair. Staples: Tazorac, 2mm Dermaroller, Anti Aging Light Stim, Devita Sunscreens, homemade C serums, some positive affirmations and whatever else it takes! Kicking and screaming the whole way... |
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Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:13 am |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| Small Face Vaculifter worked like a charm for me! |
It unfortunately did not work for mine, and I guess due to my ITP I developed the purpura above my lip when I was using it. |
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Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:05 pm |
| I understand that there is loss of elastin and collagen in aging women. This occurs all over as we age and not just the upper lip area. I just do not understand why some women develop these lines earlier, some later and some women never develop them at all. It can not be genetic because no one in my family has the problem. I have always worn lipstick or lip liners or something on my lips since I was a teenager and wonder if that has contributed to my problem. |
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